What About this FRixed Price Idea?

[dougp26364]

Working great for Saturn, according to Automotive News' Lindsay Chappell.

 

but not well enough for the majority of the industry to join in.

[bUU]

Who wants to be considered the copy-cat?

[Riviera Deck Randy]

Smoothdancer; WTG I read somewhere where cruisequick has stopped selling RCI all together more TA's like that coupled with people refusing to book RCI and hey the consumers will win this thing. I know its a long shot just my thoughts. I know two of my co workers I talked into giving RCI a try are canceling that idea and returning to Carnival.

[taszmom]

I certainly don't know what a cruiseline/TA contract on a group booking looks like, but if you have made a guarantee to a cruiseline to buy x number of cabins whether they are filled or not, it sure seems to me like you own them. If I were the TA taking on this risk, I sure would want to be able to sell the last couple of leftover rooms for a discount rather than be paying for an empty cabin

 

TA's allocate staterooms @ a price determined by RC which is usually the same as the FIT/Individual rates. A TA does not own these staterooms and they cannot (no longer) sell them for a lower price. However, there are some things you can do with group space that you can't with individual reservations....its' called Group Amenity Points. You can use these points for dollars off, gifts, reduced Tour Conductor credits, etc. TA's will probably start setting up group space by the tons to take advantage of these GAP. Also, key agencies (those who produce) will get lower pricing even on individual reservations.

 

Just hang in there as the TA's sort all of this out. I'm sure you will see some creative things come to fruition. Some TA's have to re-do their booking systems and websites to adhere to the new policy... it may take a while before you can book online again.

[imsulin]

Um...I'm a TA and can tell you that I have never, or will never BUY a block of cabins, and then hope to sell them. I can "reserve" a block of cabins for a group cruise for a 30-day period, and once deposits are made, those cabins are guaranteed for the quoted price. Any unsold cabins are released back into general pool. Group reservations work very differently than individual reservations. The only time I will make a group booking is when there is an actual group. Once I have deposits on group cabins, I can ask that more cabins be added to the allotment if my group needs more, but I won't do it unless I have clients who are willing to deposit. I've had too many wishy-washy clientswho are determined to get the BEST price, and I tell them to go for it! Globaliser is correct. We have contracts with cruise lines that we are obligated to honor in terms of group bookings, and I have honored them, and will continue to honor them. No way would I ever buy and pay in full for any unsold cabins!! Just plain stupid.

[Riviera Deck Randy]

Wow the gap has really separated. I wonder what the chances are folks will start booking other cruiselines to send a clear message to RCI.

[jrm9999]

Thanks Taszmom and Imsulin for the explanations

[Globaliser]

Wow the gap has really separated. I wonder what the chances are folks will start booking other cruiselines to send a clear message to RCI.

As with all such changes, my guess is "pretty small". Some will do as they threaten, but not many. Internet message boards are a great place for people to vent, but ultimately people accept the changes and the adjustments that come in their wake, as do the companies.

 

For example, if everyone who vented about the changes that airlines made to their frequent flyer schemes last year really stopped flying their chosen airlines as a result, as so many were threatening on message boards similar to this one, the skies would be empty.

 

One thing that nobody seems to have picked up on is that RCI will not be doing this in order to force the Internet travel agencies to make more profit. If that's right, there will be something in this for all of us, as well as for the cruise line. Just don't expect it to have the immediately tangible effect of "money off, now", or the same sense of immediate tangible gratification.

[Riviera Deck Randy]

Wow what happened to to everyone frequent flier miles, I only fly Southwest and theirs is pretty straight forward 8 roundtrips equals 1 free ticket.

[bUU]

As with all such changes, my guess is "pretty small". Some will do as they threaten, but not many. Internet message boards are a great place for people to vent, but ultimately people accept the changes and the adjustments that come in their wake, as do the companies.

Yes, you're correct of course, but I think more importantly, folks will make the best decision for themselves, based on their own perception of value. I chose RCI because it was lots less expensive than the comparable alternatives. If it was a few hundred dollars more expensive, it still would have been a better value than the others.

[Mark_K]

Wow what happened to to everyone frequent flier miles, I only fly Southwest and theirs is pretty straight forward 8 roundtrips equals 1 free ticket.

Not sure what this has to do with the topic, but I'm saving mine up for two first class round trips to Australia. I think in another year or so, I'll be there.

[Riviera Deck Randy]

Wow Mark you have a plan and a good one at that.

[RG10203]

The new pricing policy deals more with advertising a fixed price then having to sell at a fixed price. The thinking is that the smallerTA can now compete more evenly with a larger TA. When a TA advertises a specific cruise they must advertise the price set by RCI. The TA can still sell the cruise for a cheaper price if they want. The way the larger discount TA's get around this is they simple add "Call for even lower prices" to their advertising.

[jrm9999]

The new pricing policy deals more with advertising a fixed price then having to sell at a fixed price. The thinking is that the smallerTA can now compete more evenly with a larger TA. When a TA advertises a specific cruise they must advertise the price set by RCI. The TA can still sell the cruise for a cheaper price if they want. The way the larger discount TA's get around this is they simple add "Call for even lower prices" to their advertising.

 

Thats not true. RCCL issued a Q&A and also an updated statement that includes the word 'sell' in addition to advertise. They specifically stated that no agency can sell below published prices. No listing "call for best price" and etc either.

 

The updated policy was posted on cruisingpower.com last week, but I tried tonight and it is not giving me access to the news posts so either they are locking out consumers from this area now or the website is not working.

[Riviera Deck Randy]

jrm9999 is correct they did say ta's cannot advertise or sell.

[RG10203]

Your right! I just opened an 8/22 E-mail from RCI that does say TA's cannot "sell" below an advertised price. I was refering to an E-mail I got in July. Not good news at all. I was surprised to see how quickly (less than a week) RCI followed Carnival in their pricing policy. It makes me wonder about the relationship between Carnival and RCI. First the news their building new piers in Italy as a joint venture and now this pricing policy. Probably nothing. Just strange.

[thedrunkrock]

Smoothdancer; WTG I read somewhere where cruisequick has stopped selling RCI all together more TA's like that coupled with people refusing to book RCI and hey the consumers will win this thing. I know its a long shot just my thoughts. I know two of my co workers I talked into giving RCI a try are canceling that idea and returning to Carnival.

 

 

Just so you know, carnival is doing the same thing and they all will be eventually, just watch. One thing about it is that advertising a lower rate that isn't actually lower is illegal.

[seagoingJLW]

I don't think this will happen. When the cruise lines see that everybody is defecting to Princess or NCL or Oceania, they will want to taKE A SECOND LOOK.

 

jOAN

[Globaliser]

When the cruise lines see that everybody is defecting to Princess or NCL or Oceania, they will want to taKE A SECOND LOOK.

Aren't we at risk of confusing two issues? There are two pricing issues involved:-

1. The "sticker" price charged by the cruise line, which the cruise line can set at will.
   
2. The "soft" price paid by the passenger, which has historically depended on whether the TA rebates some of its commission to the passenger.
   

The cruise lines who have banned discounting can still maintain their competitiveness, if passengers defect to other cruise lines, by simply reducing their sticker prices - either by having a sale, or just an overall price reduction. But they can still maintain their control over discounting by TAs - all TAs sell at the same reduced price, preserving diversity, transparency, fairness, etc. etc. etc.

 

The fact that all TAs sell at the same price doesn't mean that all cruise prices suddenly go up. If they do go up, it's going to be as much to do with the fact that the cruise lines are selling very well - and that this is a good time to kill the discounting hydra.

[xpcdoojk]

Exactly, Globaliser!:cool:

 

I am still struggling with why this is so hard to understand. I guess many customers are more loyal to their discount TA than I could ever imagine.:eek: :rolleyes:

 

jc

[FinelyCruising]

Exactly, Globaliser!:cool:

 

I am still struggling with why this is so hard to understand. I guess many customers are more loyal to their discount TA than I could ever imagine.:eek: :rolleyes:

 

jc

Yeah, like me who knows my TA gives me excellent deals and gives me great service as well. I get both, I don't have to compromise one for the other. Because he and his team have done so much for me, I hate to think what may happen to him as a result. Right now I am booked for 2 in 2005 with discounts beyond what I got on board when I initiated the booking there. How can that be so wrong????

[Brneyznfl]

I found this over at the Carnival board. Here's is RCL's response to F.A.Q. for TA's regarding this no discount issue. You'll need Adobe Reader to view this.

 

http://www.creative.rccl.com/sales/dual/General_Info/FAQ_external.pdf

 

Now, after reading this I though it was interesting that the TA can provide shore excursions and travel insurance sold by a third party as a "value added item" to the customer but not shore excursions or travel insurance sold by RCL. This is because RCL is saying that their insurance and shore excursions represent a specific dollar value. If the TA provides these via a third party, then we do not know the specific dollar amount of these items provided and that is ok according to their policy.

 

I don't understand the rationale here at least to a point. I understand they don't want the TA to offer anything that can be converted to cash.

 

However, what am I missing here? First, with this new rebate policy the RCL is taking away their own potential revenue by saying it's ok for the TA to purchase travel insurance and shore excursions for the client via a third party but it's not ok to provide it to us as a value added item if purchased directly from RCL! huh????

 

Secondly, the RCL states that that it's ok for the TA to provide these value added items purchased by from a third party because we will not know the exact dollar amount of the insurance coverage or shore excursion provided. This doesn't make sense either. We can do our own research and pretty much figure out the dollar value of the travel insurance and/or shore excursions the TA has purchased through a third party for us! This isn't rocket science, search the internet! Even if the TA has negotiated lower pricing for high volume purchasing you still have a pretty good idea what "value" you are getting.

 

Ok let's get back to the fact that RCL doesn't want the TA to offer anything that can be converted to cash. I'm assuming they mean they don't want us to convert it to cash in our pockets. Yes? No? If you were going to try to circumvent the system and you cancelled that travel insurance or that shore excursion that the TA purchase for you from RCL, that money isn't going back to you as cash. Wouldn't the monies be refunded back to the purchaser..the TA? I would think so! Also, travel insurance and shore excursions purchased via a third party have a value attached to it! If I'm making myself look like an idiot and missing something here, please help my befuddled mind! Another thing, I don't understand how this really helps the brick and motar TA's to be competitive. If what I've been reading on these boards is true, high volume TA's can still get special pricing lower than RCL's advertised pricing and they can indeed sell at the reduced price. So what's the point of the new policy?

 

This whole thing really baffles me. I would be interested to know how long this has been in the works by the Royal Caribbean before they released it for implementation. Why the rush? Wasn't it effective almost immediately after their announcement? Like I've stated before, I think Carnival has done a smart thing. They have at least 3 months to see how RCL is handling this and watch the fallout. Then Carnival can either lessen the restrictions, increase it or throw it out the window completely. :eek:

 

I'm left scratching my head here..:rolleyes:

[Brad1185]

Whats amazing to me is as of this post, 33 people think that raising the price they have to pay is a good thing. It should be zero. How does getting rid of any discount a good thing. What is this leveling the playing field? How can people who cant spend a few minutes to find a discount want to level the playing field. I have to pay more because some are too lazy to find a deal.

 

Whats sickening is that there is an ad for RCI pushing hot holiday deals above the reply.

[Globaliser]

Whats amazing to me is as of this post, 33 people think that raising the price they have to pay is a good thing. It should be zero. How does getting rid of any discount a good thing. What is this leveling the playing field? How can people who cant spend a few minutes to find a discount want to level the playing field. I have to pay more because some are too lazy to find a deal.

Because some of us think a little further than the $ cost of the next cruise? Because some of us don't want to be held hostage in 5 years' time by the big discounters? A lower price is not everything in life - at least in my view. But it's clear that many people think that the $ cost of the next purchase is the only priority in life.

[Globaliser]

If I'm making myself look like an idiot and missing something here, please help my befuddled mind! Another thing, I don't understand how this really helps the brick and motar TA's to be competitive. If what I've been reading on these boards is true, high volume TA's can still get special pricing lower than RCL's advertised pricing and they can indeed sell at the reduced price. So what's the point of the new policy?

I think you have a valid point about the third party supplier packages. That part of it didn't make sense. The only reason I can think of is that RCI had legal advice that to prohibit the packaging of third party items by a TA would seriously risk infringing some sort of competition/antitrust laws.

 

The other part is easier to understand, though. One major point of the policy is to stop discounting that's outside RCI's control, and to make sure that promotions etc. are targeted, managed and operated by RCI and not by TAs. That leaves it open to RCI to favour some high volume TAs if they wish - but on RCI's terms not the TAs'. Handing control of discounting over to TAs was likely to make the TAs too powerful as between RCI and the TAs, which RCI would obviously want to stop - particularly as too much power in the hands of the big discounting TAs would then also be directed by them against the "bricks and mortars".