A Great Tell All Book

[jdymiller]

Just came across Garin's book, "Devils on the Deep Blue Sea," which is on sale at Amazon for $6 and found out all the cruise industry's dirty secrets. The whole RCCL-Carnival feud for Princess is in there. Reads like fiction.

[blackbird71]

I am glad Carnival WON. This is just my opinion, but RCI has turn Celebrity into RCI Jr. IMHO, had RCI won Princess would be a lot different from what it is today.

[Lady Librarian]

I am glad Carnival WON. This is just my opinion, but RCI has turn Celebrity into RCI Jr. IMHO, had RCI won Princess would be a lot different from what it is today.

And Carnival owning Princess is better?

:confused:

[iancal]

Have not read it. Does it review the 'myth' about the cruise industry being dedicated to protecting the environment?

[Toto2Kansas]

I am glad Carnival WON. This is just my opinion, but RCI has turn Celebrity into RCI Jr. IMHO, had RCI won Princess would be a lot different from what it is today.

 

I do not agree one bit with this. With Carnival winning, it seemed to give Princess more of a 'Carnival' flare and there are way too many changes from what Princess used to be like to what it is today. I think the Princess lovers out there (especially this Princess lover) would have been far happier if it would have gone to RCI. IMHO of coarse.

[jimc_usa]

Much of Garin's(The author) portrait is unflattering, particularly where U.S. cruise lines are concerned. He describes the industry's poor environmental record, revealing the degree to which the major cruise ships have willfully dumped massive amounts of waste offshore. When they have been caught, often as not, it has been in the act of covering up the evidence. Moreover, by flying the flags of such laissez-faire overseers as Liberia or Panama -- poor countries that are in the game only for the registry fees -- the American companies are able to avoid paying any U.S. taxes, which helps explain their outsize profit margins. Garin notes that if Carnival Corp. (CCL ) and Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (RCL ) were subjected to the same 35% tax rates as the rest of Corporate America, the two would have generated $518 million in additional tax revenues in 2003 alone -- equal to half that year's Environmental Protection Agency budget for Superfund cleanups. Garin details how Carnival founder Ted Arison's aversion to taxes was so great that, upon retirement, he renounced U.S. citizenship and returned to Israel to avoid paying estate taxes. (Arison's death just a few months shy of the 10-year "denaturalization" period left his estate liable.)

More troubling, perhaps, is the degree to which these moguls of the high seas have been able to operate largely by their own labor and safety codes. While the staff on the top decks, no coincidence, look just like the largely American and European passengers, Garin reveals that the legions of workers toiling below deck are invariably from such impoverished countries as Indonesia or the Philippines. These employees log 10, 12, or even 14-hour days, washing laundry or peeling potatoes for as little as $550 a month. And yet for many of them, Garin admits, the prospect of three square meals, a semiprivate room, and the chance to wire hundreds of dollars back home each month is a step up from anything they've known.

[msg74]

When we were on the Royal Princess last January, we attended a fascinating lecture by one of the officers about the design and construction of cruise ships. He mentioned this book and recommended it as an inside look into the cruise industry.

 

I've not picked it up yet, but will do so soon. I'd be interested to see anyone else's review.

 

EDIT: Having done a little more searching, I found a number of reviews outside of the Princess forum.

Edited December 15, 2014 by msg74

[andy.capitan]

Cruise line taxes or lack thereof, is a drop in the bucket compared to some other US Corporations like GE, Boeing, Verizon, etc.

 

“Tax subsidies for the 288 companies over the five years totaled a staggering $364 billion, including $56 billion in 2008, $70 billion in 2009, $80 billion in 2010, $87 billion in 2011, and $70 billion in 2012,” CTJ states. “These amounts are the difference between what the companies would have paid if their tax bills equaled 35 percent of their profits and what they actually paid.”

 

 

 

 

 

http://rt.com/usa/low-corporate-tax-rates-275/

 

Having the ships foreign flagged isn't what allows them to reduce taxes. It is being incorporated in a country other than the US that does.

 

Having the ships foreign flagged does allow them to bypass US labor laws. If they didn't, cruising wouldn't be affordable.

[pablo222]

 

Having the ships foreign flagged isn't what allows them to reduce taxes. It is being incorporated in a country other than the US that does.

 

.

 

Lots of companies offshore their profits. Apple, for instance.

I don't see people patriotically boycotting their products.

[TracieABD]

Interesting read...

[godawgs2012]

I picked this book up from the library yesterday and I've already burned through the first 240 pages - it's quite interesting and a good look at how the Four (now three since Carnival acquired Princess) lines were formed. As far as the Carnival/RCL acquisition of Princess, I haven't gotten there but it was very interesting that Carnival originally wanted to acquire HAL - they couldn't get HAL, so they went after RCL as their more "upscale" brand. When that fell through, HAL called back and wanted to be acquired, and they actually paid more for HAL than they were going to pay for RCL. That being said, Carnival pretty much for the longest time left HAL alone, while when RCL acquired Celebrity (they first tried to acquire Costa, which failed and ended up going to Carnival as we all know), they gutted Celebrity and make it RCL lite with a bigger price tag. The book actually says that industry insiders say Celebrity has had a hard time turning a profit since they were taken over (although I doubt that is the case any more as the book is almost 10 years old). I think for Princess' sake, it was a better takeover by Carnival than RCL as it seems that Carnival gave the lines they took over more freedom, as long as they hit their numbers. It may not be that way now, but I believe the start of that has allowed some of the traditions that people love on these lines to stay intact which I believe RCL would have most likely gutted immediately.

[caribill]

I think for Princess' sake, it was a better takeover by Carnival than RCL as it seems that Carnival gave the lines they took over more freedom, as long as they hit their numbers. It may not be that way now, but I believe the start of that has allowed some of the traditions that people love on these lines to stay intact.

 

Much of what the different brands can do under Carnival Inc. is still independent, but to save $$$ there has been much more commonality of purchasing lately.

 

For example, where each line used to have its own printing contracts, they now have overall contracts and have reduced the number of printing suppliers significantly.

 

Only a guess, but I suspect that the cheapening of the balcony furniture and of many of the pool lounges and the quality of the combined shampoo/conditioner is also due to consolidated purchasing.