Should HAL try to be all things to all people

[Jade13]

Is cruising cheaper?

 

My onboard expenses on NOORDAM in Feb. were over $6.000. More than $1,000 above 2006 on MAASDAM. We drank the same and did the same on both cruises.

 

 

''

 

How long was your cruise and how many people? I assume this included excursions booked onboard?

 

Our onboard for two people ten days was just a couple hundred for our tips (but we additionally gave cash). We did pay cash for a lot of private excursions though.

[kryos]

My onboard expenses on NOORDAM in Feb. were over $6.000. More than $1,000 above 2006 on MAASDAM. We drank the same and did the same on both cruises.

Jumping jimney cricket! $6 grand? What did you buy? The ship? LOL ... just kidding.

 

My onboard expenses on a 30-day Hawaii/South Pacific cruise only amounted to a little over a thousand, though most of my shore excursions were purchased in advance.

 

I do think, however, that the way cruise lines are doing things today is to make the actual cruise price cheap, and then try to pump up onboard revenue. So, it would stand to reason that onboard expenses could creep up year after year ... especially if you are a drinker and like to gamble. The cruise lines offer more options onboard today than they ever did before, and most of them come at an added cost. It's for that reason you'll probably continue to see your onboard bills rise.

 

I have to say that I too have seen my onboard expenses go up. Taking a per day total ... my total on the Veendam this past April was definitely considerably more per day than it was on my last cruise. That last cruise (a 13-day Panama Canal itinerary in October 2006) was higher than my 30-day Hawaii South/Pacific cruise on a per day basis.

 

But, then again ... you have to admit that onboard spending is something that you very definitely have control over. I know people who have an almost $0 onboard bill ... less than $100 in charges plus their tips, and that's about it. So, it is possible to keep the expenses down.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[fcorey]

Is cruising cheaper?

 

My onboard expenses on NOORDAM in Feb. were over $6.000. More than $1,000 above 2006 on MAASDAM. We drank the same and did the same on both cruises.

:eek: :eek: :eek:

 

Wow, how long was the cruise??? I dont feel so bad about ours now, for a 7 day cruise they were a bit over $2K , and I'd paid for most excursions and other stuff up front, however our spa bill was large, and we dont drink much nor does Michelle go for the art work or gold by the inch... yikes, but it was worth it, we dont vacation as often as I'd like. Do you think the expenses were because HAL was charging for things that used to be free, or just increases in prices?

[gizmo]

 

Can't wait to see the quality of service under AYW. Whose tip are you going to deduct when you could have 7 or 10 different waiters?

 

Posted yesterday on the AYW Sticky

 

We were on the 7/15 Noordam cruise. We booked traditional dining at the late sitting. Although our request was honored, we were seated on the lower dining level where the AYW tables are. The atmosphere and service suffered despite having the same wait staff each night. The service was as cold inpersonal as a busy chain restaurant. The formal nights were particularly disappointing as we received poor service from the wine steward both nights.

We were moved to the upper dining level on the last night and received the attention and service we had expected all week.

 

Maybe we just had a weak wait team, but I believe the problem was the confusion created by mixing AYW and traditional dining on the same level.

[hammybee]

I know people who have an almost $0 onboard bill ... less than $100 in charges plus their tips, and that's about it. So, it is possible to keep the expenses down. Blue skies ...--rita

 

We shared our table with a couple that boasted of having never spent a penny while onboard every ship, as everything was a rip-off. They arrived to dinner each evening quite tipsy so I assume they did the BYOB. And as expected, they were no shows on the final evening to avoid having to face the ackwardness of not tipping. This was before gratuities were automatically applied to accounts.

 

Mariner's last cruise was on the Noordam, I think. He posted from the ship and had us in stitches with his observations of the mundane and not so mundane, one of the better onboard threads.

[sail7seas]

Yes...... The cruise Mariner is referring to was 11 days on Noordam in Februrary.

 

Jade: ;) Don't assume their bill included many excursions. It didn't. :)

 

I'm responding as it isn't likely Mariner will be 'here' today.

 

[sail7seas]

I agree with Sail -- the same. Sail's comments were wonderful and I couldn't have said it better. Thank you.

 

Emily

 

Thank YOU, Emily. :)

[jhannah]

Wow! A $6k shipboard account bill? I can't begin to imagine!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Posted yesterday on the AYW Sticky

 

We were on the 7/15 Noordam cruise. We booked traditional dining at the late sitting. Although our request was honored, we were seated on the lower dining level where the AYW tables are. The atmosphere and service suffered despite having the same wait staff each night. The service was as cold inpersonal as a busy chain restaurant. The formal nights were particularly disappointing as we received poor service from the wine steward both nights.

We were moved to the upper dining level on the last night and received the attention and service we had expected all week.

 

Maybe we just had a weak wait team, but I believe the problem was the confusion created by mixing AYW and traditional dining on the same level.

 

Gizmo, I saw this post on the sticky, too, and it's such a disappointment. Of course it's what many of us fear. I'll be very interested to see the reports that come in over the next year as this all begins to unfold.

 

No matter what HAL's intentions, if they can't pull AYW off I hope they end it quickly. I wish they'd given it a bit more time on one or two ships before taking it fleet-wide (or even reserved it for Vista class and above only), but as I always say .... what do I know???:o

[mariner]

S7S is correct. Not an excursion on the bill. Been to the Caribbean since I was 7 so know my way around the islands.

 

Think bar (mainly wines, that once cost half of what they do now), spa (that also cost half of what it does now), Pinnacle (ibid) and shops.

 

I'm on vacation and can't be bothered hauling bottles out of the cellar or pondering how to smuggle things aboard.

 

We had AYW on NOORDAM. Here's what I noticed. I was just like the old two-seating arrangement. So why not go back to that and, of course, have the Lido available for those who want to eat outside those times and not dress according to the evening's code?

 

Had to laugh when I called the TA to request brochures for some other lines. TA was in shock. ``You always sail HAL!,'' she exclaimed.

 

Yes, she was told, until NCL started creeping aboard.

 

``We get more complaints about NCL than any other cruise line we sell,'' she said.

 

Looks like HAL is really following the leader this time around.

 

As for my comment about HAL bungling changes, the board abounds with examples. See Wine Cards. Soda Cards. Spa price changes. Gifts purchased ashore. Smoking policy. Tips.

 

One other thing: Ships are not more stable these days because they're bigger. On the contrary. I'll take an older, smaller, deeper draft ship in a storm off Cape Hatteras than any shallow-draft Vista or S-class. That's why NOORDAM and MAASDAM had to slow down in storms.

 

But returning to topic: I wish HAL wouldn't follow the newspaper industry and panic. Keep doing what you've done well for more than 100 years and provide great service, excellent food and a relaxing vacation at fair prices. Yet, I'm a realist and know that wouldn't fill the ships.

[Jade13]

S7S is correct. Not an excursion on the bill.

Had to laugh when I called the TA to request brochures for some other lines. TA was in shock. ``You always sail HAL!,'' she exclaimed.

 

Yes, she was told, until NCL started creeping aboard.

 

``We get more complaints about NCL than any other cruise line we sell,'' she said. .

 

Have you seen NCL broshure??? yuck. The PH looked like the furniture was from Ikea (Ok, I like Ikea but for their muffins, pear water, stuff for my pets and children. And yes, they do have inexpensive furniture handles/knobs that are stainless steel). But the rooms on NCL yuck. We know people who would only go on NCL and take the cheapest inside and hope for an upgrade. They said their last cruise to the bahamas was horrible and are willing to try anyone else.

[serendipity1499]

Is cruising cheaper?

 

My onboard expenses on NOORDAM in Feb. were over $6.000. More than $1,000 above 2006 on MAASDAM. We drank the same and did the same on both cruises.

 

 

Yet price above all else drives the mass-market cruiser. And I don't see them down the road saying, ``a HAL cruise was just perfect. Let's keep going back again and again.''

 

Holy Toledo!:eek: :eek: Our HAL bill for our 25 day on the Prinsendam last April was only a couple of thousand & our two week Ryndam last Nov. was less than $1,000...Of course we are not big drinkers (bought a couple of HAL's wine packages) & does not include our HAL excursions, booked before our cruise or private excursions & our very small gambling amounts...

 

No wonder HAL really doesn't care if we book again or not! They want people who spend lots more than we do! ;)

 

I agree with those who say HAL has to change in order to get New bookings who will eventually become Mariners..Whether we like it or not they will take all of our places in the coming years..Most Airlines which did not change with the times folded..

 

I'm amazed that no one has talked about the little upstart Premium Cruise Line, Oceania.. Three Small ships the size of the Prinsendam, three more ships the size of HAL's R & S class will be on-line in the next three -four years..Exotic Itineraries, Non-Smoking in most of the ship including Cabins & Balcony's, Dress is Country Club Casual, (we've heard no one wears jeans, shorts muscle shirts,or sandals) & they have Any time Dining...All the specialty Restaurants (Italian, Tapas, & Steak house) are included in the fare, gratuities are 11.50 per day plus 2.50 per day more if you occupy a suite.. Those who have cruised on them, claim it's one step up between premium & Superior service...Honestly don't know for sure, but I believe that Oceania will be giving HAL some stiff competition in the next few years if they don't already.. JMO...

 

Some of you will say Oceania is more expensive & perhaps you are right on some itineraries which I've not priced out..However I know of one exception...Our 25 day Prinsendam RT cruise to the Amazon last April cost more for an outside cabin (comparable class) than our 26 day RT Amazon cruise on the Regatta this Nov..

 

Cheers:) Betty

[mariner]

The wine packages are a great value.

 

Of course, the 15% surcharge adds up on those bottles of $4.00 water!

 

Think Oceania ships are beautiful. Very classic teak Lido astern.

[serendipity1499]

The wine packages are a great value.

 

Of course, the 15% surcharge adds up on those bottles of $4.00 water!

 

Think Oceania ships are beautiful. Very classic teak Lido astern.

 

Never buy bottled water...Hal's tap water is pure, so why buy bottled water..:)

[fcorey]

The wine packages are a great value.

 

Of course, the 15% surcharge adds up on those bottles of $4.00 water!

 

Think Oceania ships are beautiful. Very classic teak Lido astern.

 

I've looked over the wine list, and its better than I remember... I am planning on bringing a couple of bottles of champagne that they dont carry. Did you use any of the wine packages?

[hammybee]

I'm amazed that no one has talked about the little upstart Premium Cruise Line, Oceania.. Three Small ships the size of the Prinsendam, three more ships the size of HAL's R & S class will be on-line in the next three -four years..Exotic Itineraries, Non-Smoking in most of the ship including Cabins & Balcony's, Dress is Country Club Casual, (we've heard no one wears jeans, shorts muscle shirts,or sandals) & they have Any time Dining...All the specialty Restaurants (Italian, Tapas, & Steak house) are included in the fare, gratuities are 11.50 per day plus 2.50 per day more if you occupy a suite.. Those who have cruised on them, claim it's one step up between premium & Superior service...Honestly don't know for sure, but I believe that Oceania will be giving HAL some stiff competition in the next few years if they don't already.. JMO...

 

Some of you will say Oceania is more expensive & perhaps you are right on some itineraries which I've not priced out..However I know of one exception...Our 25 day Prinsendam RT cruise to the Amazon last April cost more for an outside cabin (comparable class) than our 26 day RT Amazon cruise on the Regatta this Nov..

 

Cheers:) Betty

 

Betty, I am thinking that right now Oceania is not a major threat because they rarely sail from a U.S. port and when they do, the cruises are longer than 7 days and often sell at a serious premium to a HAL cruise. Although they clearly are eager for a piece of the charter and group business, not sailing from convenient U.S. ports for 7 days probably limits their success in this area. It will be fun to watch them grow and see if they can maintain quality and fill those ships, or not.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

Betty, I am thinking that right now Oceania is not a major threat because they rarely sail from a U.S. port and when they do, the cruises are longer than 7 days and often sell at a serious premium to a HAL cruise. Although they clearly are eager for a piece of the charter and group business, not sailing from convenient U.S. ports for 7 days probably limits their success in this area. It will be fun to watch them grow and see if they can maintain quality and fill those ships, or not.

 

If Oceania were to add regular North American departures to their itineraries, especially west coast ports, and they may do so when they've added the new ships to their fleet, I would DEFINITELY give them a try. (Assuming I have any money left after the current economic meltdown, that is:rolleyes: ).

 

Karin

[ekerr19]

WHATEVER about the bill! Each of us spend what we feel comfortable with... whether it's $5K or $50 - who cares?

 

Why is everyone so shocked to hear others spend thousands on their shipboard account? :confused:

[bUU]

I think folks are trying to ensure that the questioner doesn't get the impression that everyone needs to spend so much.

[HeatherInFlorida]

WHATEVER about the bill! Each of us spend what we feel comfortable with... whether it's $5K or $50 - who cares?

 

Why is everyone so shocked to hear others spend thousands on their shipboard account? :confused:

 

I think the point some of us were making is that if you tend to spend $6000 over and above the cost of the cruise, then cruising isn't so cheap.

 

Mariner was saying that cruising isn't cheap when you consider he spent +$6000 onboard his last cruise. So some of us were just mentioning that not everyone does that.

 

No one was suggesting there was anything wrong with it!!!:) I agree ... we can spend whatever we wish. But if I were to spend that much onboard I would be tempted to book one of the "all inclusive" lines that include much more than HAL does.

[hammybee]

I think folks are trying to ensure that the questioner doesn't get the impression that everyone needs to spend so much.

 

and/or that most of us spend a fraction of this. It's discretionary spending.

 

That Mariner chooses to spend this is his business. More power to him. I can appreciate it that his cruising experience may not live up to his onboard expenditures.

[Sea King]

 

Looks like HAL is really following the leader this time around.

 

 

But returning to topic: I wish HAL wouldn't follow the newspaper industry and panic. Keep doing what you've done well for more than 100 years and provide great service, excellent food and a relaxing vacation at fair prices. Yet, I'm a realist and know that wouldn't fill the ships.

 

IMO, Mariner got what I wanted to discuss in this thread

 

do you follow or do you set the pace?

 

do you absorb the ideas from other lines or do you "begin the trend yourself"

 

it's not just about "free style dining" .. it's about much more

 

it's about enforcing dress codes (since the cruise line obviously sets them, why is it too much expect they enforce their own rules:eek:)

 

it's about tradition .. not only past but as importantly setting a meaningful set of standards that will carry on in the future

 

it's about not only watching the register receipts for today but as importantly being concerned about receipts in the future

 

let Carnival set its standards; let Princess emphasize what it wants; let NCL, oh well, enough said; let RCCL build another ice skating rink; who cares

 

HAL should be concerned about building on and improving its own product; not taking apart something that already works by substituting "this and that" from other sources which in the end does nothing but make the slogan "signature of excellence" an empty echo

[serendipity1499]

WHATEVER about the bill! Each of us spend what we feel comfortable with... whether it's $5K or $50 - who cares?

 

Why is everyone so shocked to hear others spend thousands on their shipboard account? :confused:

 

Because Mariner stated he could have a luxury cruise for the amount he spent on his cruise...And we do we agree..

 

And as I said I believe that HAL really cares how much we spend on board..I also believe they track the on-board spending of each of us..I'm not that naive to believe that, if I should send a letter of complaint HAL will not look at my past on-board spending account before sending me a reply..And as previously stated: it's no wonder HAL really is not interested in our (DH & my) business..In the Airline Business, we always knew who our good customers were & made sure we treated them with kid gloves!..We promptly addressed any of their complaints..And for anyone who believe that large companies treat all their customers the same, I believe you are mis-guided..

 

It's a known fact that many experienced cruisers do not spend as much on their vacations as the present Baby Boomer's do..Just in shore excursions alone they spend much more than many of us do..I honestly believe HAL wants more of the big spenders who will continue to support them in the coming years..And they are trying to get them, by giving them what they want!

 

I'm also just as shocked about our children who must have the best of everything right now & don't put enough $$$ away for their retirement...It's called "Instant Gratification"! When they inherit what's left over of our $$$, I would bet it will be spent faster than you can "shake a stick";) ..JMO..Betty

[hammybee]

 

I'm also just as shocked about our children who must have the best of everything right now & don't put enough $$$ away for their retirement...It's called "Instant Gratification"! When they inherit what's left over of our $$$, I would bet it will be spent faster than you can "shake a stick";) ..JMO..Betty

 

And this is why we must strive to spend their inheritence on our own cruises and have the last laugh. :)

[mamaofami]

And this is why we must strive to spend their inheritence on our own cruises and have the last laugh. :)

 

 

My sentiments, exactly. If there's anything left, we didn't have a good enough time!:D