The 'As You Wish' Concept

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

I was just ruminating on the 'As You Wish' concept and wondering how it would apply to the following situations:

1. College / Univeristy class schedules.

2. Doctor and dentist appointments.

3. Marketing and sales meetings.

4. Legal proceedings, escrow closings and accountant appointments.

5. Income tax quarterly payment schedules.

6. Fill in the blank.

 

As You Wish Dining? IHOP, McDonald's, Olive Garden and a 'Slurpee' and hot dog at Circle K comes to mind

 

Traditional Dining? A structured, appointed time for fine dining without having to wait in line, the need to make a call daily for a reservation or the requirement to 'carry' a beeper.

 

A McHAL is coming to your ship soon. Enough said. (Gee, venting is fun.)

 

Bon Voyage and Good Health to one and all!

[BruceMuzz]

Bob,

First, I am not a great fan of Open Dining on ships. But..............

 

We need to take a closer look at the (relatively short) history of so-called Traditional dining. The version we are familiar with hasn't been around very long. It was designed to make up for the lack of table space on the newer larger mass market cruise ships that were no longer able to accommodate all passengers at one seating; it was also designed to reduce the number of serving and cooking staff by forcing you (the passenger) to participate in mass feedings that allowed an economy of scale to take over. Not even McDonalds has gone so far to force everyone to eat at the same time in order to reduce space and costs.

 

Fine Dining?? Hardly. Stand back and take a look at the big picture. It should be fine dining - if you are to believe the advertising. But it resembles - more than anything - a mediocre wedding reception dinner. Don't even get me started on the baseball caps and tank tops.

 

Not having to wait in line? Every ship that I have worked on (25 at last count; 1300+ cruises) has had long lines every night as the masses head for the dining room - all at the same time - for their Fixed Dining Tables.

 

"A Structured, appointed time" ?? That's true only for those who were lucky enough to book very early and received the early or late seating time they requested. But what about the 40% (on average) of cruisers who did not get the dining time they requested because that dining time was already filled?

Structured? Not for them.

Appointed? Not for them.

Many of them cannot even eat in the dining room because they need to go to bed before their Structured Appointed time even arrives. They spend the week eating in the buffet or calling room service every night.

 

So although the open dining concepts on some of the cruise lines are hardly perfect, they do offer benefits that appeal to many, and they do solve some of the shortcomings of the mass feedings you call "Structured Fine Dining".

 

So far as having the "As You Wish" concept applied to other facets of life - it's already being done.

 

As You Wish allows you to Choose Traditional Fixed Dining - if you wish. So if that is your choice, nothing has changed. You dine at the early or late appointed time as you always have. No issues and no complaints, right??

 

But if you can't or don't want to do that, there are options:

 

Early seating is already filled up and you can't eat so late? No problem. Now instead of calling room service all week, you can eat early in open seating.

 

Took a shore excursion that returned you back to the ship after your early seating has closed? No problem. You can dine late in open seating for tonight instead of grazing in the buffet.

 

You really want to see tonight's show after late seating, but have to get up early tomorrow for a tour? No problem. Eat early in open seating tonight, see the early show, and go to bed early tonight.

 

If you still get your fixed seating as always, why would you be adverse to others getting the open seating they want?

[mariner]

Bruce,

 

You clearly don't know your history.

 

Seatings have been around since at least the 1950s.

 

True open seating has been done on high-end lines for years. BUT, you're assigned a table. Come whenever, between 6-9.

 

I've never seen lines at the dining room, except on the first night.

 

I noticed on NOORDAM, during the AYW experiment, it was like the old two seatings.

 

And if you want to discourage the early rush, call it Early Seating, not First.

[mariner]

One other point:

 

When will the show be on?

 

AYW? Do we do 2, 3 4 shows?

 

No. We'll do one. So shipboard will still dictate what happens.

[Welove2cruise2]

I don't understand the resistance to AYW dining -- it's like you have to have all your decisions made for you ahead of time -- HELLO? I think I can decide WHEN I want to have dinner, WHERE I want to have dinner, WITH WHOM I want to have dinner, and WHAT I want to drink beforehand...

 

When you go to a land based restaurant, does the restaurant tell you what time you have to be there? Do they tell you that you HAVE to dine with 4 or 6 or 8 strangers?

[fcorey]

I don't understand the resistance to AYW dining -- it's like you have to have all your decisions made for you ahead of time -- HELLO? I think I can decide WHEN I want to have dinner, WHERE I want to have dinner, WITH WHOM I want to have dinner, and WHAT I want to drink beforehand...

 

When you go to a land based restaurant, does the restaurant tell you what time you have to be there? Do they tell you that you HAVE to dine with 4 or 6 or 8 strangers?

 

 

I think part of it is that sometimes people don't like change...I've seen this in my own reactions. Personally I am going to reserve judgment until I have to deal with it myself. But I think its going to be interesting to see feedback from people once its been implemented. I think thats another concern in that many feel HAL will bungle the adoption of this and people will be miserable as a result. As I am in a positive mood today I'll give them the benefit of the doubt here and see how it goes. :)

[spacecat]

Ahoy!

I was just ruminating on the 'As You Wish' concept and wondering how it would apply to the following situations:

1. College / Univeristy class schedules.

2. Doctor and dentist appointments.

3. Marketing and sales meetings.

4. Legal proceedings, escrow closings and accountant appointments.

5. Income tax quarterly payment schedules.

6. Fill in the blank.

 

As You Wish Dining? IHOP, McDonald's, Olive Garden and a 'Slurpee' and hot dog at Circle K comes to mind

 

Traditional Dining? A structured, appointed time for fine dining without having to wait in line, the need to make a call daily for a reservation or the requirement to 'carry' a beeper.

 

A McHAL is coming to your ship soon. Enough said. (Gee, venting is fun.)

 

Bon Voyage and Good Health to one and all!

 

Lets see....to answer just a few....even though my daughter has made appointments to visit her counselor (as THEY WISH it to be) at her university, several times the counselor has not shown up or has been late..

 

Don't get me started on doctors visits.....THEY WISH you to make an appointment weeks in advance and heaven help us all if you have an emergency.....

 

Have had several escrows that haven't closed on time.....no matter what I WISH and what I've been promised....

 

So that just proves that life doesn't always happen the way we would hope it would. But I'd honestly rather drink that Slurpee and eat that hot dog at my local Circle K, than eat/drink with someone more focused on what I am wearing and whether or not they got the same seat night after night.

 

I SINCERELY HOPE there is room for both types of dining, but if not, passengers will have to accept what is offered or decide to take a different type of vacation. I won't let where and how I eat bother me as much as waiting in the doctor's waiting room.....!

 

Shari

[hammybee]

I noticed on NOORDAM, during the AYW experiment, it was like the old two seatings.

 

 

Mariner, I have noticed this comment a few times. I think you are confusing the many dining experiements. What you experienced on your winter cruise was not AYW. Passengers were given an arrival window within fixed seating, meaning people could be on different courses, dependent upon time of arrival.

 

The Noordam went to AYW just this past May, in Alaska. Right now, this minute, it is the only ship in the fleet doing AYW. In theory, passengers arrive when they wish to be seated and can choose to dine alone or be seated with others , just seated.

[mariner]

Thanks Hammy.

 

Had a thing in our welcome aboard thing. Paid no attention.

 

Bob does not have a clue, like me.

[BruceMuzz]

Mariner,

Actually, I know my cruise ship history very well. I'm currently writing a book on it - between working my contracts onboard ships.

 

If you study your cruise ship history a bit better, you will find that fixed seatings have not only "been around since at least the 1950s" as you say, but actually started more than a century ago on some ships. But if you read my post again you will notice that I said, "the VERSION we are familiar with has not been around very long". That is absolutely true. This business about having to be at your dining table by a certain time - and leaving it by a certain time - to allow the next mass of humanity to eat there is a function of the dumbing down of cruising and the result of cruise line companies trying to make cruising affordable to the middle and lower classes in order to make higher profits.

I'm not making any judgements here. Having the middle and lower classes cruising makes my job far easier. Many of today's cruisers are far less discerning, with lower expectations and standards than we experienced a few decades ago.

 

But if today's cruising public had the higher standards we saw a few decades ago, we would not now need to discuss Open of Fixed Dining. It wouldn't be an issue. Cruisers would demand their own dining tables for the cruise - to be occupied by them whenever they pleased, with whomever they pleased, for as long as they pleased. Just like in the good old days........................

[localady]

Great to hear from you again Bruce!! :D

Looking forward to reading that book!!

Best Regards!:D

[bepsf]

When you go to a land based restaurant, does the restaurant tell you what time you have to be there? Do they tell you that you HAVE to dine with 4 or 6 or 8 strangers?

 

Actually, Yes. If you try to book a table at one of the many trendy & exclusive restaurants here in town less than a week in advance, the choice you'll often get for a table isn't "As You Wish" but "5.30 or 10pm?"

 

Sunday Brunch? If you don't have a reservation or you show up between 11am and 1.30, you'll typically stand in line for anywhere from 20 minutes up to an hour.

 

And don't ever bother showing up anyplace with a party of 6 or more without reservations unless you want to watch several parties for 2 and 4 pass you by.

 

Many of us prefer not to have to think about "When" and "Where" for the time we're at sea - that's the major appeal of Traditional Seating.

[hammybee]

Mariner,

But if today's cruising public had the higher standards we saw a few decades ago, we would not now need to discuss Open of Fixed Dining. It wouldn't be an issue. Cruisers would demand their own dining tables for the cruise - to be occupied by them whenever they pleased, with whomever they pleased, for as long as they pleased. Just like in the good old days........................

 

Um, and what might that cost the passenger in 2007 $?

[mariner]

Bruce,

 

Im very bored.

[bepsf]

Cruisers would demand their own dining tables for the cruise - to be occupied by them whenever they pleased, with whomever they pleased, for as long as they pleased. Just like in the good old days........................

 

What "Good Old Days" are we talking about - Royal Viking Line? They did have single seating, but they had specific tables which passengers shared with others.

 

In fact, it's only been relatively recent history that ships have had a great number of tables for 4 and 2. Back in the real "Good Old Days" dining rooms were mostly filled with 6, 8, 10 and 12 tops - and before that, Dining Saloons had great long tables that stretched from one end of the room to the other, and swivel chairs bolted to the floor!

[hammybee]

What "Good Old Days" are we talking about - Royal Viking Line? They did have single seating, but they had specific tables which passengers shared with others.

 

In fact, it's only been relatively recent history that ships have had a great number of tables for 4 and 2. Back in the real "Good Old Days" dining rooms were mostly filled with 6, 8, 10 and 12 tops - and before that, Dining Saloons had great long tables that stretched from one end of the room to the other, and swivel chairs bolted to the floor!

 

Where were the spittoons?

[RevNeal]

Where were the spittoons?

 

Hopefully where the people who chewed were spitting. :eek:

[mariner]

yes and there are lines that still do.

 

Clearly, you're too busy writing than to serve the middle class masses, of which I consider myself one. But I will be sure to review your book. And since I started cruising in 1968, I can't wait.

[Copper10-8]

Bruce, looking forward to your book! Gotta be good!:)

[prescottbob]

Ahoy!

Great replies. I just thought I'd stir 'the pot' a little. Always enjoy good debating. Actually, when a recent poll was done on the question I chose to 'give it a shot'. Since I have yet to try it I fit into the 'ignorant masses' category. Only have one scheduled trip with HAL in the pipeline for the 11/08 Amazon trip but have confirmed late dining (maybe I should switch the last few days of the trip to try it out, no?). I'm turned 57 last week. My first cruise as a child was in 1958 on the older Statendam (10 day NYC/Carribean). Certainly different times.

In any event, EVERYONE HAVE A GREAT CRUISE WHEREVER YOUR SHIP TAKES YOU!

 

Bon Voyage and Good Health!

Bob:)

[PennyAgain]

she is worried that all these options for dining will eliminate her favorite meals of the cruise. That is the Midnight Buffet.

 

Is the Midnight Buffet a goner or still running especially on the Alaska cruises?

 

Thank you.

[iancal]

It is about money and it is about passenger demand...pure and simiple. HAL is doing it to ensure that they do not elimate a larger proportion of the cruise market who clearly want this alternative. Some may not appreciate it. HAL, like others, are going for the gold.

[hammybee]

she is worried that all these options for dining will eliminate her favorite meals of the cruise. That is the Midnight Buffet.

 

Is the Midnight Buffet a goner or still running especially on the Alaska cruises?

 

Thank you.

 

There is no Midnight Buffet on HAL. There is food later in the evening , usually a theme presentation, but not the food fest that one finds on, say Carnival.

[PennyAgain]

There is no Midnight Buffet on HAL. There is food later in the evening , usually a theme presentation, but not the food fest that one finds on, say Carnival.

 

Thank you.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I'm still a little confused about this historical data. For as long as we've been cruising I'm just about positive .... strike that:) , I AM positive ... that there have always been 2 sittings (commonly referred to as "Traditional". These were previously called 1st and 2nd sitting, I believe.

 

These were absolute structured sittings that you arrive at a specific time, there was no window involved. Since we always took 2nd, we did not have to "clear out" for the next group.

 

So I'm not sure what BruceMuzz means by "relatively short", but other than an early cruise in 1959, we've been cruising regularly on Cunard, Royal Viking, Regent, NCL, Celebrity and HAL since 1980.

 

To me, 27 years isn't "relatively short". But if it is I'm a lot younger than I thought!!!!:D