Taking kid's out of school for cruise: advice?

[sayaguru]

WOW! Interesting thread and a bit annoying too.

I'm a teacher (had to say that) and I have no problem with parents taking their children out for vacations but each case is different. A week is nothing in a year. But longer trips can be detrimental depending on when they are taken. I had a child in the first year of school 2 years ago. She was one of the youngest but quite bright. After 4 weeks of school her parents took her overseas for 5 weeks. She came back and was back at the beginning whereas everyone else had had 9 weeks of school. She struggled all year and went on but had to repeat the next year as she never caught up.

In Australia they have only just introduced rules where you have to get permission to take your child out of school for more than 2 weeks.

I work in a school with many nationalities and parents take their children out for extended times to visit family overseas. Most parents ask me when will be the best time.

 

 

I have NEVER had a child come back and know what the rest of the class has learned the time they were away. But is missing a week going to affect their school year. I think not.

 

 

The ONLY problem I have, as a former teacher, is when parents say, "they learn so much more on a cruise than they would in a week in the classroom". I absolutely hate that remark. It teaches children that what goes on in a classroom is worthless. So PLEASE, parents. Don't impart that attitude on your children. Everything taught in a classroom has worth. We have enough problems teaching today's children without them bringing an attitude that you parents impart on them----that what we do in a week in a classroom isn't nearly as good as what goes on during a cruise. That's just a bad thing parents teach their kids.

 

I must admit this annoys me too. Also when parents say they did a weeks work in 3 hours. Yes if schoolwork was just give a child a sheet and say fill it out it is quick. What about discussions, TEACHING the content, Talking and listening programs, fitness. I give work sheets but most of my teaching day does not include sheetwork. It's difficult to explain to parents who don't know what goes on in a classroom why their child got one sheet to fill out when they were away for the day.

Maybe they think the child does "nothing" at school just "read and do artwork". Had to laugh at that.

[aussiedisneyfan]

In Australia they have only just introduced rules where you have to get permission to take your child out of school for more than 2 weeks.

 

Is this across Australia or only NSW? DH is taking our daughter to Europe for her grandmothers 70th birthday in Nov and she will miss 3 weeks school. We ask for some work and she is now also doing Kumon English. As it is a home based holiday it shouldn't be too difficult to do the work.

[miami]

The ONLY problem I have, as a former teacher, is when parents say, "they learn so much more on a cruise than they would in a week in the classroom". I absolutely hate that remark. It teaches children that what goes on in a classroom is worthless. So PLEASE, parents. Don't impart that attitude on your children. Everything taught in a classroom has worth. We have enough problems teaching today's children without them bringing an attitude that you parents impart on them----that what we do in a week in a classroom isn't nearly as good as what goes on during a cruise. That's just a bad thing parents teach their kids.

 

I am not a teacher but this comment always bothers me. JMO but I'll bet 95% of them don't really worry about the educational value. It's their way to justify taking their kids out of school for whatever reason.

[momofmn00]

Thanks for the info on teacher's vacations/sick days...I guess I never stopped to ask my SIL...:o I suppose it may be different by each school district or state.

Anyway, I would never tell my kids that vacationing (espically cruising, but nontheless, no vacation:rolleyes: ) is better than school or that they will learn more than if they were at school. What we are trying to say is that they might learn about different cultures/countries... NOT that they will learn more while on vacation verses school. While I think a vacation [to mostly anywhere] can be as educational as you make it, it is not better than school, but instead maybe different. Maybe by a child keeping a journal and reporting back to the class about the differnces in cultures/countries (or how the ship makes its own water/electricity, etc...)can help expand the class geography lesson.

P.S. I know personally, I would not tell my kids that our cruise is more important than school~My son LITERALLY hated school last year. Luckily, this year he is loving it (so far just finished our 3rd week!!!) :rolleyes: Hopefully his teacher this year can keep that love for learning going!!!:D

[kitty9]

momo, you have the right attitude. Unfortunately, there are many parents on this board who always say their kids learn more on a cruise than they do during a week in school---that's a terrible idea to impart to any child. And I would bet that many of these parents are the ones who keep their kids in the kid's club for most of the day and night. Scavenger hunts, video games and movies are not cultural/educational experiences, and neither is shopping on St Thomas and going to island beaches. Hey, if you have the good fortune to take your family on cruises, have at it. But don't teach your kids to think that their vacation is a better learing experience than being in a classroom. We have a difficult enough time keeping kids engaged in learning without parents telling kids that their vacations are better learning options than being attentive in a classroom.

[CC Help Michell]

...

For those who take kids out of school to cruise: Do you even think about how it affects anyone else? What if every kid in the class took a week off to cruise? How much do you think that would slow down the entire class over the course of the school year? How about the teacher? Does it bother you at all that he/she has extra work to accomodate your off-season vacation? Maybe you don't think it's much, but multiply it by 30.

 

*puts on fire-resistant suit*

 

Thanks for this post -- it's nice to hear a little recognition of what actually happens when vacation absences occur. I will still always do whatever I can to help the child catch up (they didn't book the vacation!), but your appreciation of what's involved is very nice.

 

It's not only the teachers, by the way. Some kids can be away without missing a beat -- but I always feel sorry when a child who has been away a week returns and expects to find the class still doing what it was when he/she left -- that's how many if not most young kids' brains work ("if I'm not there, it's not happening" -- very egocentric little people, at the younger ages). I've seen many kids become very frustrated as they start to realize the lessons they missed, the class party, the animal handler who came to school during that week they were gone, etc.

 

Making up a work packet for a vacationing child actually isn't the bulk of the work the teacher has to do -- the problem is most learning, particularly in early elementary (which I teach) doesn't take place via worksheets. It's dynamic, hands-on, and interactive. It's VERY difficult to find time during the school day, as the curriculum marches on, to help a child catch up on all they missed in the classroom. If lasting learning could be achieved through three hours of worksheets a day, that's how schools would run. ;)

 

Anyway, no I don't expect most parents to understand what is involved in this situation -- though most parents do appreciate what we do and know that we are more than just "babysitters." But a sizeable number seem to think that teaching is for dummies, that "anybody" could do it, that we only work the hours children are at school, that we get paid vacation all those weeks kids aren't in school (it's UNPAID leave -- our salary is paid out over 12 months in most cases, but the salary is based on 190 days of employment -- that's why so many teachers have second jobs, tutor during the summer, etc). NOTE -- I am NOT complaining here. I love what I do and made a huge lifestyle change after 16 years in another career in order to become a classroom teacher -- I'm alone among my friends in having the privilege of getting up every day HAPPY to go to work and looking forward to it. :) I just saw a few quotes in this thread that sort of struck me and wanted to reply.

 

Thanks for thinking about us, KC_fn.

[Ellanora]

Does it bother you at all that he/she has extra work to accomodate your off-season vacation? Maybe you don't think it's much, but multiply it by 30.

 

No, it really doesn't bother me that the teacher will have to put together the work for my son. Do I appreciate it? Certainly, very much. But bother me? No. Dealing with students/employees/coworkers vacations is the occupational hazard of most jobs, and indeed, is part of those jobs.

[Nurse4heartkids]

Hi,

 

I have been reading this thread with much interest. This is obviously a very hot topic. We do take our kids out of school for trips:eek:. We do this because it fits into my husbands schedule and my schedule. I am a nurse and can not be off around Christmas which is the only time that my husband and kids are off at the same time. He is a teacher who teaches in a year round school district (he does not have a problem when his students go on trips during school ,nor does he sweat his prep time to send work with them). My kids are not in his district and have a traditional school year with summers off. We generally take them out for a week each year. Do they suffer academically no, does it annoy their teachers maybe. Do I feel bad for their teachers no. However, I do appreciate the time and effort they take to accomodate the trips and my kids always bring them a nice thank you gift when they come back to school.

 

My philosphy is no one knows what life will throw at you or how long we will be on this earth. Family time is precious and kids grow up fast. Before you know it they will be grown and gone. My kids are full of great memories from our trips and talk about them all the time. Honestly, I think the fact that they get to miss school is part of the thrill for them:D. They have missed the occasional party and field trip while we have been gone, but they never have been upset about missing them. This is a personal choice and everyone has the right to their opinion....I just thought I would share mine;)

[kaseykahnefan]

I have read this entire thread because I too am taking a child on a cruise during a school week. I am taking my 16 year old cousin with me with the permission of her parents of course. She payed for the cruise herself with the money she earned from working this summer. I bought her plane ticket as a birthday present. She will actually turn 16 the week we get back. She is already planning on talking to her teachers the week before she leaves so she can complete her work. She is a very good kid who does extremly well in school. She is a straight A student, ocassionally making a B. My best friend is going with me on this cruise and she is also taking her 16 year old out of school for a week. She is also a good kid who makes great grades. One kid is in the 10th grade, the other in the 11th. They both attend small schools so maybe that will help. Their mothers both say well they work hard, are good kids, and make good grades so they think it will be okay for them to miss a week. If they were failing then I could see not letting them go. I also doubt 30 children will go on vacation at the same time. Maybe I am wrong but I don't see the harm in missing school for a week. Now the instance where the little girl was gone for 6 weeks or more and had to repeat the grade b/c she couldn't catch up seems to be extreme to me, but a week is not all that long.

[KC_fn]

Thanks for thinking about us, KC_fn.

 

You're very welcome. Thank YOU for tackling the most important job in the world.

 

I was a parent-helper in my daughter's classroom from kindergarten on, and so I got the chance to see just a little of what teachers do. You are hard-working, educated, dedicated professionals, and I have the utmost respect for your very difficult job. You are also underpaid and under-appreciated, and the notion that a week on a cruiseship is equivalent to a week of your teaching is simply ridiculous.

[kaseykahnefan]

How much extra work does it put out for the teacher to have to get a kids work packet together and send it home? Do they complain about if the kid is sick for a week? If the kid is still doing their work then if the parents choose to let me miss school for a week then it should not be a problem. IMO....

 

I am not being sarcastic with the above question. Am genuinely asking... :)

[kaseykahnefan]

How much extra work is it for the teacher to give the kids a work packet from what they will miss especially if they are notified in advance? Do the teachers complain about it if the kids is out sick for a week? If the child is still doing the work then I don't see a problem in taking them out of school for a week.

 

oh and i am not being sarcastic with the above question. I am really asking

[kaseykahnefan]

oops double post. sorry

[CC Help Michell]

How much extra work does it put out for the teacher to have to get a kids work packet together and send it home? Do they complain about if the kid is sick for a week? If the kid is still doing their work then if the parents choose to let me miss school for a week then it should not be a problem. IMO....

 

I am not being sarcastic with the above question. Am genuinely asking... :)

 

I didn't think you were being sarcastic. :) I've tried to explain a couple of times in this thread exactly what is involved in delivering lessons to children (especially young children -- your niece is older and much better able to absorb material on her own from books). Young children learn by doing and touching, by talking about it, by seeing it with their own eyes, by hearing it -- an abstract worksheet is something that frequently doesn't "connect" for young children. The homework most teachers send home is for practice of material previously taught through these in-class methods -- it's not teaching NEW material.

 

As I've also said, I try to help children who miss school for ANY reason catch up -- but it's made more complicated by the fact that I can't re-teach (for instance) that great lesson on adverbs where we roamed the school "quietly" "quickly" "loudly," etc. I have new great lessons to teach, and the child who was absent for adverb introduction will receive my best at coaching, etc -- but not the full enchilada the rest of the class did.

 

Hope that answers your question!

 

To repeat, I think each family has to make this decision for themselves and I don't second-guess them. I just think maybe a little more understanding that what we do in the classroom isn't just giving children a packet of papers (which is sort of what you asked) might help parents better assess what their child may miss.

[kaseykahnefan]

I see what you are saying. You put more effort into your teaching than some teachers such as taking the children out in the school teach them adverbs. Yes she is older and more likely to be able to make up the work. I don't think they do much in the way going around the school and asking. Yes that is what I was asking, I c now it is much more than just putting together a packet together especially for younger children. Well we are still taking our two teenagers of school as it is paid for... :D But thank you very much for explaining to me. I am not a teacher but I do work with children and families but in a very different aspect.

[Onessa]

. . . I have NEVER had a child come back and know what the rest of the class has learned the time they were away. . . .

 

In fourth grade our DD missed 2.5 days over Thanksgiving for our HI cruise. Her teachers gave her her assignments ahead of time. Ice storm hit the Monday before T-giving so school closed early and was off on Tuesday. Needless to say she WAS ahead of the rest of the class when she got home. :D

 

Our family does not work to make travel an educational experience -- we are all natually curious so it always seems to turn out that way!

[lilbabyjayjay]

our children are in high school and the school will allow them 5 excused vacation days, they encourage it as it promotes family time...:) the teachers will give the kids the work they would miss the previous week , we are taking my neice this time and she is 9 her teacher was thrilled that she was geting the opportunity to go on a cruise.

[danesmama]

Every year I too take my kids out of school for a weeks cruise. My kids love it. I do an independent study. The school still gets paid, the kids aren't considered missing any school and we take an hour to 2 hours a day to do homework while on the cruise.

When I got divorced from their father, he wouldn't sign for me to them their passports. The Judge looked at him and told him that traveling and going to other countries, seeing other cultures and how people live is a part of learning. My kids love this vacation time and I have never had a problem with the schools. They actually encourage traveling as a part of learning

[bluejaygirl]

I have never pulled my kids out for a week before, but I am this week.

 

One is 12 and in middle school honor roll, the other is in first grade working above grade level. I know it is more work for the teachers, more work for the kids, more work for me and this is why we have never done this.

 

But this is a special group cruise that is ONLY this week out of the year. Luckily, all the teachers involved have been very understanding and encouraging and excited for my daughters to get to experience something like this.

[MrsPete]

How much extra work is it for the teacher to give the kids a work packet from what they will miss especially if they are notified in advance? Do the teachers complain about it if the kids is out sick for a week? If the child is still doing the work then I don't see a problem in taking them out of school for a week.

 

oh and i am not being sarcastic with the above question. I am really asking

Putting together a week's work for a student takes at least an hour. It takes time to write out what the class'll be doing, pull out worksheets ahead of time, and locate in books the things that I'd be presenting verbally in class. Some assignments must be altered because they work for a group but not for individuals. Keep in mind that I have about 90 students, so it's not a one-time per semester thing -- it's something we're asked to do on a regular basis, and every packet of work must be individualized for the student. When the student comes back, there's usually a test/quiz that requires after-school time from me.

 

The real kicker, though, is that very, very few students actually do the work! Of all the packets I've put together over my 15 years in the classroom, I'd estimate that 90% of the students do NONE of the work -- even if I talk to the parents ahead of time, even if the parents promise they'll make sure it's done, even if the child is a good student, it just doesn't get done! Of the 10% who do any make-up work, at least half either do just the easy parts (i.e., they do the quick-and-easy worksheets but make no attempt to write the essay) or they ask for an extension when they come back from vacation.

 

In fact, I'll give you an example -- not an extreme example either! Last week a girl in my class was out on a vacation. I'd put together a packet of work for her, and when she came back to class on Monday I asked her for it. She claimed she'd done the work but she'd "forgotten" to bring it to school. The make-up work slipped my mind on Tuesday, but when I asked her for it again on Wednesday, she admitted that not only had she done none of the work, but she'd lost the envelope, and she asked if I'd mind making up another packet! I told her I would not. She'll have to search for the work that's already been provided.

 

As a result, I have a very bad attitude about putting together work that is basically ignored. It takes my after-school time, time that I could be at home with my own children or getting ahead for the next day/week's lessons . . . and the vast majority of my students don't do any of it!

 

Is sick time the same? Not really. Students (and parents) tend to view it differently. They seem to EXPECT to make up the work, and they usually at least make an attempt at it. They don't tend to see sick days as vacation days, and they don't seem to have a "the world stops when I'm not here" attitude.

[clansac]

I think it depends on the subject matter. I taught middle school history and had a stock packet for independent study. You must write in a journal answering such and such question every day. Prepare a poster board and presentation to give to the class or do a powerpoint scrapbook. Get a recipe from where you're traveling, prepare it and bring it to school to share. My students often learned the most interesting things from fellow student travelers than they did from our very boring state approved textbook. I wrote it up in 3, 5, 10 and 15 day packets. Each one longer than the first.

 

In our school, if you didn't turn in the packet the DAY you returned, you got no credit and automatically got 0 for any assignment missed while you were gone. I rarely had a student not turn in the work.

[miami]

I think it depends on the subject matter. I taught middle school history and had a stock packet for independent study. You must write in a journal answering such and such question every day. Prepare a poster board and presentation to give to the class or do a powerpoint scrapbook. Get a recipe from where you're traveling, prepare it and bring it to school to share. My students often learned the most interesting things from fellow student travelers than they did from our very boring state approved textbook. I wrote it up in 3, 5, 10 and 15 day packets. Each one longer than the first.

 

In our school, if you didn't turn in the packet the DAY you returned, you got no credit and automatically got 0 for any assignment missed while you were gone. I rarely had a student not turn in the work.

 

Love this idea. A lot of fun for the whole class and they are learning about other places.

[CanadianTwosome]

MrsPete, I don't blame you at all for being frustrated. I agree with Miami that Clansac's packet is a good idea.

 

We're pulling our daughter out in January for the second time (we did it last December as well). She's in grade 4 this year. We didn't ask her teacher for extra work either time. We discussed it with them and let them know in advance that she would be gone, and we agreed that having her work on a journal every day that we were away was a good idea. What that meant (and will mean again in January) is that our whole family sat down every evening and put in some work, because there is no way she would have just done it on her own - and I like to consider myself a pretty realistic parent, so I didn't expect it. I am not at all surprised with MrsPete's observation that only 10% of her packets come back completed.

 

There was much discussion about people not considering teachers when they pulled their kids from school on another thread, and I think that this is one of the reasons why. Asking a teacher to produce such a packet is, in my opinion, a huge inconvenience with a high likelihood of the time being wasted. As has been mentioned, however, children do get sick and have to catch up. My daughter missed almost the entire week last week due to a combination of flu and cold (the first day of bathroom visits combined with coughing and sniffling was horrible!), and we spent the weekend catching up. I'm happy to say it didn't take very much time or effort for her because she is always either up to speed or ahead of the class at this point. I expect to do the same when we return from our holiday in January. We'll work on the journal together and when we return, I will go to the school and discuss the concepts she missed so that my husband and I can work with her at home to catch up. I just think that it was us who decided to take her out of school so it should be us that put in the extra effort.

 

Did anyone see Boston Legal this week? It was only the second time I watched it, actually (on a friend's recommendation) and the NCLB legislation was featured in one of the cases. I hope the statistics they quoted weren't accurate, but if they were, I hope someone can find a way to address the problems.

[MrsPete]

I think it depends on the subject matter. I taught middle school history and had a stock packet for independent study. You must write in a journal answering such and such question every day. Prepare a poster board and presentation to give to the class or do a powerpoint scrapbook. Get a recipe from where you're traveling, prepare it and bring it to school to share. My students often learned the most interesting things from fellow student travelers than they did from our very boring state approved textbook. I wrote it up in 3, 5, 10 and 15 day packets. Each one longer than the first.

 

In our school, if you didn't turn in the packet the DAY you returned, you got no credit and automatically got 0 for any assignment missed while you were gone. I rarely had a student not turn in the work.

Sure, they'd write in a journal and make a poster! That's not exactly difficult work. Sounds great in theory -- everyone learns something cool about another area of the world -- and it is great supplemental work.

 

But in reality (or at least in high school reality) at the end of the 18-week semester there's a state-made final exam and an exam grade that'll go on transcripts for colleges and scholarships. Plus the school is judged heavily by its students' test scores. If the state course of study dictates that the students must know about, say, the Vietnam War, and this particular student does the independent study instead of learning about Vietnam . . . well, he's going to be lost on that part of the state test. It won't matter a hill of beans that he knows really cool stuff about Cozumel or St. Thomas -- he's not going to be tested on those places.

 

While everyone (except the legislators who keep voting in more and more of this stuff) thinks we emphasize testing too much, it is the reality of the world in which we live. Until it changes (and it will, though I don't think it'll be very soon), missing a whole week will hurt the student.

[MrsPete]

As has been mentioned, however, children do get sick and have to catch up. My daughter missed almost the entire week last week due to a combination of flu and cold (the first day of bathroom visits combined with coughing and sniffling was horrible!), and we spent the weekend catching up.

I don't think any teacher complains about helping a child who was genuinely sick complete make-up work . . . kids will get sick; it's unavoidable. But CHOOSING to give extra work to the teacher is a whole different story -- and choosing to give the teacher extra work then not doing it is worse still.

 

Speaking of long illnesses, one of my first school memories is missing the whole month of December when I was in third grade. I had a nasty case of Scarlet Fever and was very sick. I remember clearly the teacher bringing things to my house (that was a different era!) and my mother giving me a portion each day as I was able to do it. And I remember my siblings being kept out of my room for fear that they'd catch it. I have no memory of my grades at that point in my life.