Queen Elizabeth 2/Queen Elizabeth

[Kindlychap]

Given that so much that makes Cunard the line we love is vested in her regular passengers, it would be logical to suggest that if all the regulars of Queen Elizabeth 2 transferred to the new Queen Elizabeth in 2010 we should be back to where we are now.

 

Only I don't believe it.

 

But I can't quite put my finger on why. Obviously the ship is newer, but we're always saying it is the passengers who make Cunard special.....

 

Any other thoughts?

 

Matthew

[Lanky Lad]

Given that so much that makes Cunard the line we love is vested in her regular passengers, it would be logical to suggest that if all the regulars of Queen Elizabeth 2 transferred to the new Queen Elizabeth in 2010 we should be back to where we are now.

 

Only I don't believe it.

 

But I can't quite put my finger on why. Obviously the ship is newer, but we're always saying it is the passengers who make Cunard special.....

 

Any other thoughts?

 

Matthew

 

Well the fact that there are no single cabins will mean a lot of single people will not transfer.

 

It's not the same ship, so it can't be the same. However, if enough QE2 people pax and crew transfer, maybe they can turn QE into the ship we want her to be :)

[pb82]

Given that so much that makes Cunard the line we love is vested in her regular passengers, it would be logical to suggest that if all the regulars of Queen Elizabeth 2 transferred to the new Queen Elizabeth in 2010 we should be back to where we are now.

 

Only I don't believe it.

 

But I can't quite put my finger on why. Obviously the ship is newer, but we're always saying it is the passengers who make Cunard special.....

 

Any other thoughts?

 

Matthew

I don't believe it either. Unless the new QE is a liner, capable of crossing at least as fast as the QM2. And, if so, it won't matter if she does only one crossing a year, I think that the present QE2ers will flock to her and perhaps complain about the decor, but never about her provenance.

 

What makes me pessimistic is the price of fuel oil. Can Cunard build a 30 knot ship but operate her profitably at no more than 22 knots?

 

I would be optimistic if Dubai would pay for the QE2 not with cash but with a few oil wells and the corner of a refinery.

 

Paul

[DaddyWarbucks]

The image, so carefully cultivated by Cunard, is of an age of bygone elegance and affluence. Carefully preserved and put on display are photographs of the rich and famous. We can imagine ourselves rubbing shoulders with these celebs as we walk the decks and enter the dining rooms.

 

Not remembered are the masses who also traveled with Cunard (mostly in a westerly direction) Wives were separated from husbands. Both packed in single sex dorms. They were not waited on and they had to clean up after themselves.

 

Mrs. Warbucks came over as a child under the second set of circumstances. Today, we are fortunate enough to enjoy the good life on the Cunard Queens. I suppose each one of us has an image, a perception of what makes the Cunard queens unique. For some of us, it is a symbol of bygone elegance; for others a vehicle on their way to a new world.;)

[Wadadli1]

The image, so carefully cultivated by Cunard, is of an age of bygone elegance and affluence. Carefully preserved and put on display are photographs of the rich and famous. We can imagine ourselves rubbing shoulders with these celebs as we walk the decks and enter the dining rooms.

 

Not remembered are the masses who also traveled with Cunard (mostly in a westerly direction) Wives were separated from husbands. Both packed in single sex dorms. They were not waited on and they had to clean up after themselves.

 

Mrs. Warbucks came over as a child under the second set of circumstances. Today, we are fortunate enough to enjoy the good life on the Cunard Queens. I suppose each one of us has an image, a perception of what makes the Cunard queens unique. For some of us, it is a symbol of bygone elegance; for others a vehicle on their way to a new world.;)

 

How fascinating, Mr. Warbucks. Would there be any chance she might share her stories with us? What I know about these times I've only read in books.

[Dorchester]

Given that so much that makes Cunard the line we love is vested in her regular passengers, it would be logical to suggest that if all the regulars of Queen Elizabeth 2 transferred to the new Queen Elizabeth in 2010 we should be back to where we are now.

 

Only I don't believe it.

 

But I can't quite put my finger on why. Obviously the ship is newer, but we're always saying it is the passengers who make Cunard special.....

 

Any other thoughts?

 

Matthew

 

I don't believe it either Matthew! Cunard may be able to replace the vessel, but can never replicate her character, history and ambiance, any more than they can replace all of the historical artifacts an board, which will be lost for ever when she goes.

 

Regards,

David

[Kindlychap]

So does the ship make the passengers? I suppose we seem to think it must.

 

For what it is worth, the new QE doesn't replace QE2 - even in Cunard's terms. The "replacement" is QM2 - the only liner likely to be built by Cunard for at least thirty years. QV and QE are just extra cruise ships.

 

I'd love to think that special aura on QE2 will be elsewhere, but I really think it will all be over for me on September 30, 2008.

 

Matthew

[DaddyWarbucks]

How fascinating, Mr. Warbucks. Would there be any chance she might share her stories with us? What I know about these times I've only read in books.

 

It would be our pleasure. We will be on the WCC in January and the last Westbound in October 2008.

[Wadadli1]

It would be our pleasure. We will be on the WCC in January and the last Westbound in October 2008.

 

Actually, I meant here. If all of us booked those there would be no room onboard the ship for the others!

[Highlander0108]

It would be our pleasure. We will be on the WCC in January and the last Westbound in October 2008.

 

My family has a history with Cunard as well, generally only in the westerly direction. Grandfather came over on the Laconia, great grandparents on the Mary, and many aunts and uncles on various Cunard ships. I too am on the WCC and would love to share stories.

 

KenM

[3rdGenCunarder]

So does the ship make the passengers? I suppose we seem to think it must.

 

Matthew

 

I think the ship does make the passengers in that this ship ATTRACTS certain passengers with certain expectations. One thing that will affect the mix of passengers on Cunard is that a number of people will give up sailing with Cunard after QE2 is gone. Some will do so because they don't like the newer kind of non-liner ships. Some will do so because of the issue of the single supplement. A lot of people are wondering which LINE to try next now that QE2 is going, not which Cunard ship to try.

 

The new ships with all those balconies are not the kinds of ships where people congregate in public spaces. That mingling is something that is unique to QE2, but was once more common. Now, with musak piped in everywhere, too much noise by the pool, and public spaces occupied with bingo and art auctions, people retire to their balconies instead of being part of the shared experience of being at sea. It's a kind of civility that is being lost, and I will miss it.

 

Kathy

[DaddyWarbucks]

My family has a history with Cunard as well, generally only in the westerly direction. Grandfather came over on the Laconia, great grandparents on the Mary, and many aunts and uncles on various Cunard ships. I too am on the WCC and would love to share stories.

 

KenM

 

 

We'll have interesting talk mealtime at the Caronia:)

[cunardqueen]

My thoughts are as a die hard QE2 fan the QM2 does nothing for me, and never will do, at some stage l might:o consider a crossing but never a cruise QE2 is a good size in that you can meet people and meet them again during a cruise.

Queen Victoria, Granted lm doing one of these PR tour things:rolleyes: but thats the only time l will set foot onboard, she has done nothing to stir my interest, and unless lm really hit with the wow factor onboard l wont ever be back onboard again.

Now the Queen Elizabeth has aroused my interest and from what little information l have gleaned l will book a trip on her. But compare the details being issued about Ventura, they are always sending out information about her, What have Cunard issued about the Victoria, Not much as far as l can see, and why mention the fact that they intend to build Queen Elizabeth subject to the board of directors saying that its ok, Has the new build project been a rushed decision by Carnival in an effort to keep the QE2 ones happy

Of course QE2 can never be replaced, But Carnival might try and do a bit more to keep their loyal passengers, or at least make us feel as though were are worth something to them, cheaper laundry, mouth of wine and some free email time onboard really dont quite swing it for me:mad:

Thats my thoughts anyway

[songanddance]

Well the fact that there are no single cabins will mean a lot of single people will not transfer.

 

It's not the same ship, so it can't be the same. However, if enough QE2 people pax and crew transfer, maybe they can turn QE into the ship we want her to be :)

 

 

I was just going to say the same thing so I will - If you notice on many of the roll calls that a lot of the passengers are solos. Cunard along with most all the other lines is trying their hardest to eliminate us solo passengers by raising the ante.

 

This alone will change with passenger mix and possibly not in the right direction as we solo people are unique in so many ways. I think they should pay us for the cache we add to every sailing.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I was just going to say the same thing so I will - If you notice on many of the roll calls that a lot of the passengers are solos. Cunard along with most all the other lines is trying their hardest to eliminate us solo passengers by raising the ante.

 

 

They're not trying to get rid of you, just squeeze more money out of you. :(

 

I've met many solo passengers on QE2 who've said they'll have to quit cruising when QE2 goes. Of course, that was back when we believed (hoped) she'd sail forever. Some may decide to pay the extra. Some may cruise less often. Some may have to quit sailing completely.

Kathy

[Essiesmom]

Do you suppose this same conversation/speculation went on 40+ years ago when it was known the QE and QM were to be retired? E.

[DaddyWarbucks]

I was just going to say the same thing so I will - If you notice on many of the roll calls that a lot of the passengers are solos. Cunard along with most all the other lines is trying their hardest to eliminate us solo passengers by raising the ante.

 

This alone will change with passenger mix and possibly not in the right direction as we solo people are unique in so many ways. I think they should pay us for the cache we add to every sailing.

 

 

From a hotelier's point of view, one does not make cabins for one person; there is no flexibility there. They cannot transform 2 single cabins into a double when needed. Has anyone seen a modern hotel room built for only one person lately? Even though a high percentage of hotel rooms are occupied by one person, all rooms will take two ore more.

 

I'm afraid that economics has to trump sentiment.;)

[carlmm]

Certainly it is the mix of ship, offered services, cuisine, entertainment,staff and passengers that make the QE2 so special. Cunard has the change to transfer much of this to a new vessel but only if they really want it to be in the tradition. Even now they do chance the atmosphere on the existing QE2 by many details eg. the high number of strange themed evenings (Tonight is "Back to skoool"!) that many passengers are annoyed with.

 

To look at it from a different angle: On a table next to us three ladies are seated who used to sail the first Queen Elizabeth, now they came for the first time on the QE2 due to a special occasion. They are thoroughly diappointed. They miss the elegance, the graciousness, the service and more of their former experience. Only the Princess Grill resembles to them what they hoped to relive.

Nevertheless they acknowledge the QE2 as being the nicest ship afloat and enjoy what is enjoyable and beloved by so many of us.

 

Maybe that is what we have to expect from the new Queen Elizabeth: Being a better ship than the majority of cruise ships around but just not on the same level.

Yet who knows: Maybe Cunard hears us and we get a wonderful Queen Elizabeth that is a rightful bearer of the name.

[K.sailaway]

It has to be faced that the Carnival bean counters have not an ounce of sentiment, no successful business has, whatever they may say. Like it or not, the only thing that matters is a full ship and right now Cunard are riding the crest of a wave (and that's not a reference to QV!).

 

Only when that situation changes may they listen to the wishes of passengers eg. single accommodation at a reasonable fare.

 

Yes, we see that it is the passengers that make Cunard special. Not sure that Cunard really see that, or ever will.

 

Sorry, just being realistic.

 

K.

[Beachmad]

I think the ship does make the passengers in that this ship ATTRACTS certain passengers with certain expectations. One thing that will affect the mix of passengers on Cunard is that a number of people will give up sailing with Cunard after QE2 is gone. Some will do so because they don't like the newer kind of non-liner ships. Some will do so because of the issue of the single supplement. A lot of people are wondering which LINE to try next now that QE2 is going, not which Cunard ship to try.

 

The new ships with all those balconies are not the kinds of ships where people congregate in public spaces. That mingling is something that is unique to QE2, but was once more common. Now, with musak piped in everywhere, too much noise by the pool, and public spaces occupied with bingo and art auctions, people retire to their balconies instead of being part of the shared experience of being at sea. It's a kind of civility that is being lost, and I will miss it.

 

Kathy

 

 

Couldnt agree more, I wanted to sail on the QE2 just because it was the QE2.

I found her small (comparatively) and graceful.

Or as Goldilocks would have said 'Just right'

 

The thought of those huge ships (even QM2) and all those people they can get on :eek:, no thankyou Cunard, Ill stick with small and graceful.

 

 

It could be said our children and grandchildren will look back at the present 'hotels-on-Sea' with tears in their eyes the same as we do when thinking of our ship but I dont think they will.

 

Ironic really that in the beginning the iconic ocean liner for the (supposed and commonly thought of) wealthy ends her days being another plaything of the even wealthier, although I really believe it will be short lived, cant imagine the young and rich of Dubai are interested in anything other than 4x4 and camel racing. As soon as the arabs and sheiks have had their evil way with her, they'll get bored and probably sell it on.

I wish Branson had bought it or the anglophile Getty, he may have given it to the nation for free!!

As much as I like the Mary Rose I'd prefer the Queen Elizabeth to be a national heritage museum.

Theres still time......its not over yet, one day we will have her back where she belongs Im sure of it.

:)

[guernseyguy]

Of course not - just as the QE2 never truly 'replaced' either the QE or QM - the new QE will be different - but I agree that the biggest difference will be in the single passenger supplement - which typically runs at 25% - 40% on the QE2 - the hike to 75% will deter a lot of her loyal single travellers. Just as Cunard lost a lot of the Vistafjord/Caronia passengers when she left the fleet, so too will they lose a lot of QE2 passengers........as they did when QM/QE left......

 

Peter

[Bramcruiser]

I think the ship does make the passengers in that this ship ATTRACTS certain passengers with certain expectations. One thing that will affect the mix of passengers on Cunard is that a number of people will give up sailing with Cunard after QE2 is gone.

 

The new ships with all those balconies are not the kinds of ships where people congregate in public spaces. That mingling is something that is unique to QE2, but was once more common. Now, with musak piped in everywhere, too much noise by the pool, and public spaces occupied with bingo and art auctions, people retire to their balconies instead of being part of the shared experience of being at sea. It's a kind of civility that is being lost, and I will miss it.

 

Kathy

 

I do agree that it is the ship that attracts the passengers but I'm perhaps more open about waiting and seeing. Yes, I first stepped on board the QE2 late in life - even after trying out the QM2 - and fell in love. Perhaps my background as an accountant made me realize that Cunard could not let the old gal go on forever and thus I am willing to accept her fate. Although, I must admit I am extremely fortunate to savour her one more time on her final transatlantic.

 

As for a replacement? Should there even be one? Even Cunard is not outright saying the QE2 is being replaced with such and such a ship except that it's role as the flagship for the line was taken over by the QM2 back in 2004 when that ship took over the transatlantic run. The QV and proposed QE are simply cruise ships that will have liner capabilities doing the world cruise and a few special crossings. In reality that is what the QE2 has been doing since 2004.

 

Still I agree the new ships won't have the ambience that the QE2 had. I agree that passengers are going to go all over the place on her retirement for a variety of reasons. I love the QM2 as well so will likely stay with Cunard. I'm making no judgement calls on the QV and the QE until they appear and have gone into service. If Kathy feels the modern lines with their balconies will not satisfy the QE2 old-timers then they may be stuck in a loop because if the new ships of Cunard can't satisfy them then just take a look at the competition? Much the same? In fact if there is a real criticism to be laid on the two new ships is the possibility that they will have no individual character and instead be carbon copies of things already floating out there! At least the QM2 and QE2 are one-offs.

 

I think the retirement of the QE2 is going to be a sad event but I can't say it would be the instantaneous reason for me to abandon Cunard. The ship is really the end of an era. For some they will change. For others they will end with the icon. Its an individual choice. This will likely be a bigger change for Cunard than the retirement of the original Queens and the introduction of the QE2. I'll be curious to see how Cunard handles this - currently it looks like a flashier 21st century company with the legend of what made Cunard what it was more of a museum piece of which appears to be the trend aboard its ships nowadays. Still, if the line can continue to uphold the traditions of fine dining, formal dress and a more upscale passenger list which have been its hallmark then not all is lost.

 

Its obvious there's a lot of doom and gloom being posted and I understand where its coming from. Unfortunately its usually right. However, I will sit back and wait and see. There's still a few more itineraries on the QM2 that I know I want to try.

 

David

[K.sailaway]

Still, if the line can continue to uphold the traditions of fine dining, formal dress and a more upscale passenger list which have been its hallmark then not all is lost.

 

Its obvious there's a lot of doom and gloom being posted and I understand where its coming from. Unfortunately its usually right. However, I will sit back and wait and see. There's still a few more itineraries on the QM2 that I know I want to try.

 

David

 

I agree. My wife and I will continue to sail with Cunard, in whatever ship, as long as these traditions are upheld. The design of the ship has to move with the times, that's progress. I count myself fortunate to have been aboard QE2 in her second year of operation and believe me, the sentiments being expressed here are nothing new. The onboard experience is the most important thing for us. If that changes we'll look elsewhere.

 

K.

[KarenR_UK]

Of course not - just as the QE2 never truly 'replaced' either the QE or QM - the new QE will be different - but I agree that the biggest difference will be in the single passenger supplement - which typically runs at 25% - 40% on the QE2 - the hike to 75% will deter a lot of her loyal single travellers. Just as Cunard lost a lot of the Vistafjord/Caronia passengers when she left the fleet, so too will they lose a lot of QE2 passengers........as they did when QM/QE left......

 

Peter

 

 

P+O UK (also owned by Carnival) are able to offer single supplements from 35%, albeit on the less desirable sailings on certain ships, as long as you book far enough out :)

 

In April I am paying 60% for single occupancy of a double room (which hurt:D but Arcadia was 85-95%:eek:) because its on an itinerary I wanted to do (I booked as soon as it was allowed - it is capacity controlled in the same way as the discounted prices and the SS is already up to 100% for this one) - but if I had wanted to go to the Canaries in December I could have got it at 35% when the brochure came out (as it happens a QE2 single was actually cheaper than P+O this year when booking at 10/12 weeks:) )

 

 

Personally I think it would be nice if Cunard could adopt a similar process of varying supplements - at least giving those of us that travel solo the choice:cool: (Although, the way the starting SSs on some P+O ships are rising, it looks like its going the other way:( )

 

 

Karen

[pb82]

It has to be faced that the Carnival bean counters have not an ounce of sentiment, no successful business has, whatever they may say. ...

K.

Bean counters may not have any sentiment but they certainly know how to sell it (along with a dash of snobbery). Some examples from http://www.cunard.com/:

 

... Cunard's glorious ocean liners were floating palaces of art deco splendour and Edwardian excess, surrounding guests with every comfort and elegance. They attracted the greatest personalities of the day, from world leaders to movie stars, who sipped champagne at festive black-tie soirees and strolled along graceful promenades attired in their finest apparel. It was the quintessence of luxury travel, and getting there was truly half the fun. ...

 

... Welcome to Queen Mary 2 - the grandest, most magnificent ocean liner ever built. She's a true heir to the timeless elegance, legacy and inspiration of the great Cunard liners of legend. You'll notice it the moment you walk through her doors into her soaring Grand Lobby, and be awed ...

 

... To set eyes on her [Queen Victoria's] sleek outline, with her distinctive black and red livery, is to recognise her instantly as the latest Classic Cunarder, a unique marriage of heritage and innovation. ... Elegant and stylish, every public room will create a unique ambience where our renowned White Star Service will continue to surpass expectations. ...

 

Let us all hope that the new QE will be a ship worth being sentimental about.

 

...

Personally I think it would be nice if Cunard could adopt a similar process of varying supplements - at least giving those of us that travel solo the choice ...

Karen

Perhaps the single supplement should depend on how far ahead you book combined with the number of unsold cabins at that time. For example, pay 100% more when you book early to guarantee getting an available cabin, pay 75% more for any cabin available more than a month ahead, and pay 50% more for any cabin that hasn't been booked with less than one month to go.

 

Paul