I see no mention of the Class Action Suit re $300 fines for Pax Service Act/Jones Act

[flashdog_1]

This is coming up this month and should be resolved, if there is any monetary compensation to affected passengers.

 

Back in March 06 my daughter forgot her passport so we had to delay our embarkation on Veendam until the next day. Had to wait for its delivery at our hotel in Tampa. The ship had been notified, and an agent was ready for us in Key West the following day.

 

Customs/Immigration agents were not too happy with it since KW is not a usual port of embarkation, but we waited patiently while they carefully went through every suitcase.

 

Our first venture on board was to the customer service desk to sign a chit for $600 which read "Jones Act Fine." I'd read about such a fine on these boards so was not surprised.

 

What did surprise me was receiving a letter a couple of months ago saying that I was part of a class action suit against HAL concerning the imposition of the fines, and then not giving the money to the government!

 

The case is to go to court this month unless it gets continued. The letter stated that if it is won, the reimbursement of the fine $ would be disbursed in January. It had a chart for all the previous years and the % of interest that would be paid. In our case there was no interest.

 

If I ever hear from them again, I will post here!

[Snook]

I fail to see a violation of the Jones Act here unless I'm missing something.:confused: The way I understand the Jones Act is that had you boarded in Tampa and then disembarked (ended your cruise) in Key West, then that would violate the Jones Act and Customs would fine the ship. But you did not do that. Regardless of the passport issue, you boarded the ship in Key West to begin your voyage much the same as passengers boarding in New York and more boarding in Ft. Lauderdale on the same voyage. There may be some other type of violation but not the Jones Act. Maybe Customs never sent HAL a penalty notice.

[kryos]

I fail to see a violation of the Jones Act here unless I'm missing something.:confused:

I think there's some sort of rule that you cannot embark in Key West. I have no idea why ... but for some reason that is a Jones Act violation. Maybe it's because the cruise started in a U.S. port? Maybe if you miss that port, you can only board in a foreign one?

 

Frankly, I'm surprised they even allowed you to board there. Would seem to me that they would have had you just meet the ship in it's first non-US port.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[above sea level cruiser]

I thought that the Jones act was in place to stop non-US flagged ships from transporting people from one US port to another US port?

 

If that is the case, I wouldn't think boarding in Key West as opposed to Tampa would be an issue.

[Two if by Sea]

Right -- my thought exactly. Now if you boarded in Tampa and tried to DISEMBARK in Key West, THEN the fine would make perfect sense.

[DAllenTCY]

I believe that you must embark and disembark at the same port for that particular cruise. By boarding in KW and disembarking elsewhere, you did not comply.

David

[Stevesan]

As I read The OP's post the lawsuit is not arguing the law, but contends HAL did not pay the fine(s) to the government.

If HAL kept the money without paying the fine(s), they are saying that the passengers should be reimbursed.

[hammybee]

It is possible, I think, that by boarding in KW, you may have been in violation of the Passenger Service Act, oftentimes confused with the Jones Act. Within the Passenger Service Act, distance from the U.S. port to foriegn port plays a huge part in determining if a fine is imposed, or not.

 

Regardless, this sounds like HAL was collecting fines and not paying them to the appropriate agencies. Beats me. The courts will figure this one out.

 

This is a link to information about a proposed class action suit that may or may not be your situation:

 

http://www.hagens-berman.com/cruise_lawsuit.htm;jsessionid=aFAl-IqLSr36

 

http://www.hagens-berman.com/holland_release.htm;jsessionid=aFAl-IqLSr36

[boards]

How silly of me, here I thought we had run out of reasons to sue somebody.

Glad there are still opportunties left. whew!! scared me there for a moment.

[Snook]

Sometimes Customs chooses not to issue a penalty depending on the circumstances. Other times they may issue a penalty which may result in a petition by the ship for mitigation. If Customs feels the circumstances warrant they may mitigate the penalty down to a fraction of the original amount or completely cancel the penalty. In such cases, certainly the passengers are due a refund.

[cruisinjudy]

I believe that you must embark and disembark at the same port for that particular cruise. By boarding in KW and disembarking elsewhere, you did not comply.

David

 

I would say this is exactly why the fine was there in the first place.

 

I thinksnook hit the nail on the head with his/her response.

[RuthC]

And if the suit is won, and if the money has to be repaid, then the lawyers take their cut off the top first.

You might have enough reimbursed to pay for a cocktail on your next cruise. Cheers! :rolleyes:

[peaches from georgia]

Something's better than nothing. :) Without the class action suit HAL would have kept it all and the pax who had paid the penalty to HAL would have paid an unnecessary charge.

[Two if by Sea]

I believe that you must embark and disembark at the same port for that particular cruise. By boarding in KW and disembarking elsewhere, you did not comply.

David

 

Aha. You are, of course, correct. Here's the passage from the HAL contract:

 

for round trip cruises commencing in the United States that stop in other ports of the United States, you may visit but may not permanently disembark in any U.S. port other than the port of embarkation. If you do disembark in a different U.S. port, a fine or penalty may be imposed by the United States government.

 

But if for some reason the US Government DIDN'T impose the penalty even though it could have, there is nothing in the HAL contract that says what they'll do with the money they've collected from you.

[above sea level cruiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAllenTCY

I believe that you must embark and disembark at the same port for that particular cruise. By boarding in KW and disembarking elsewhere, you did not comply.

David

 

Aha. You are, of course, correct. Here's the passage from the HAL contract:

 

 

Quote:

for round trip cruises commencing in the United States that stop in other ports of the United States, you may visit but may not permanently disembark in any U.S. port other than the port of embarkation. If you do disembark in a different U.S. port, a fine or penalty may be imposed by the United States government.

But if for some reason the US Government DIDN'T impose the penalty even though it could have, there is nothing in the HAL contract that says what they'll do with the money they've collected from you.

 

Disembark is the key word relating to the Jones Act. From what I understand and have learned here on CC is this: The Jones act is to stop out of country vessels from moving people and or cargo from one US port to another. Otherwise, cheap labour would be doing the work of US citizens. Lots of people miss the ship and have to catch up to it - admittedly very few would miss the ship in one US port and have the chance to board at another US port.

[chasetf]

As I read The OP's post the lawsuit is not arguing the law, but contends HAL did not pay the fine(s) to the government.

If HAL kept the money without paying the fine(s), they are saying that the passengers should be reimbursed.

Seems to me the suit should end having HAL pay the government ...... not the passengers that violated the PSA.

 

True.... if HAL kept the money.... that is not what they should have done. But rewarding PSA violators doesn't seem the right thing either. Either way... the lawyers win on this one. :rolleyes:

[westboroatty]

And if the suit is won, and if the money has to be repaid, then the lawyers take their cut off the top first.

You might have enough reimbursed to pay for a cocktail on your next cruise. Cheers! :rolleyes:

 

That's not exactly how it works. If the plaintiff's attorney is successful, HAL will pay the plaintiff's attorney. If they win, the litigants will get thier $300. The attorneys will get their fees and our cruise will be a little more expensive because of this.

 

Rick

[westboroatty]

As posted above the passage from the HAL contract reads as follows:

for round trip cruises commencing in the United States that stop in other ports of the United States, you may visit but may not permanently disembark in any U.S. port other than the port of embarkation. If you do disembark in a different U.S. port, a fine or penalty may be imposed by the United States government.

 

Something that hasn't been mentioned is the distiction between HAL and the US Government. HAL is not the US government, and it is rather dishonest to collect a fine from the passenger to give to the government and then keep it if the government never assesses the fine. This is called extortion.

 

The devil is in the wording of this and from what I read of the complaint, I think HAL is going to get hung out to dry on this one. Had the contract read that the penalty may be imposed by HAL, I think HAL would be OK. As the contract of carriage, the customer agreed to the penalty. It does not matter if HAL is fined or not. It is a clause of the contract.

 

My $0.02.

 

Rick

[RuthC]

That's not exactly how it works. If the plaintiff's attorney is successful, HAL will pay the plaintiff's attorney. If they win, the litigants will get thier $300. The attorneys will get their fees and our cruise will be a little more expensive because of this.

 

Rick

Well, I'm not an attorney, so I have only this background to go on: another time there was a class-action suit against HAL. I ended up with a fistful of vouchers to be used toward cruise(s). They could only be used within 45 days of sailing, and had expiration dates. :rolleyes:

 

I had something like $300 worth of vouchers that I was never able to use. :(

[westboroatty]

Well, I'm not an attorney, so I have only this background to go on: another time there was a class-action suit against HAL. I ended up with a fistful of vouchers to be used toward cruise(s). They could only be used within 45 days of sailing, and had expiration dates. :rolleyes:

 

I had something like $300 worth of vouchers that I was never able to use. :(

 

I'll agree that in class action litigation, the class members usually wind up with something cheezy like vouchers. I got a notice of class membership from a court. It said that a mortgage broker that I'd used had mishandled my personal information As a remedy, I was offerd a $500 discount on a new mortgage.

 

Let me think about this..... they mishandled my personal information, and and as a remedy, they want me to give them more money in the forms of commissions on a re-fi? Are they smoking crack?

 

Rick

[noblepa]

In a way, HAL is between a rock and a hard place. It probably takes the government months to determine if a violation has occured and to levy a fine. By that time, it would be difficult for HAL to collect the fine from the passenger, so they collect it immediately.

 

Now, if HAL is not reporting the incident and not forwarding the $300 to the gov't, it seems to me that the gov't has a cause of action against HAL, not the passenger. That said, it seems to me that HAL should have a system in place to track such things and, if the gov't does not impose a fine, they should refund the money to the passenger.

 

The only ones who ever win in a class action suit like this, are the lawyers. They will run up hundreds of thousands of dollars in fees, that, if they prevail, HAL will have to pay. If they do win, the passengers are likely to get vouchers for a future cruise, which they may or may not be able or wish to use.

[flashdog_1]

I doubt I still have the letter, figuring it would come to nothing, but the jist of it is in this paragraph:

 

Filed in US District court in Seattle on behalf of the proposed class by attorney Steve Berman, the suit seeks to represent all passengers who were charged a so-called Jones Act Penalty for boarding the ship at a port not of the original departure point and who paid for excursions while a passenger.

 

The original complainant was really ticket off at HAL! You can tell by the fact that he included in his suit, his claim that the commission from HAL sponsored shore excursion is "bilking passengers," in with the more serious "not paying the government."

 

I am only involved in this class action suit because I have the imposition of the fine in common with the person pressing charges. I did not take any HAL excursions: I visited friends in Belize and found my own excursions ahead of time in Guatemala and Costa Maya. And of course I didn't have time for an excursion in Key West LOL.

 

What is funny to me about the whole thing is that the agent who was at the travel emergency number connected with our cruise insurance assured me that our flight to Key West, our hotel the night after the ship had sailed, the courier who transported the passport by air from Birmingham to Key West, and even the Jones Act Fine, as they called it on my receipt (even though we conclude it is really the Passenger Service Act that was violated) would be reimbursed (She even booked the hotel and flight for me but I paid, of course) because she looked at it as a lost or stolen passport, when in fact, and she knew, the passport was still in a bureau drawer at my daughter's home. My husband drove 100 miles to find it and wait for the courier. She will never forget her passport again!

 

Wrong! I received the rejection letter shortly after I filed a claim. In effect it said, "forgetting and losing a passport are not the same." So I was out about $1600 if I remember correctly. So to think that I might get back $600 of it will be a treat! HAL did give me an unasked for credit for the night of sailing missed. There was no explanation, just a credit on my credit card bill. I don't know if it was for Tampa port charges, or actually 1/7 of the fare I paid, that was returned to me. So HAL is not ALL bad!

[flashdog_1]

Quoting from the letter

10. WHAT IS THE SETTLEMENT APPROVAL PROCEDURE?

The Court will hold a Hearing on Dec. 13, 2007, at 8:30 a.m., in the courtroom of the Honorable Robert S Lasnik, US District Court Judge for the Western District of Washington, US Courthouse, 700 Stewart St, Seatlle, WA, to consider whether the Settlement should be finally approved, as well as to consider Class Counsel's request for fees and costs."

 

If anyone sees anything about this in Friday's paper, let me know. Thanks

[Jade13]

Well, I'm not an attorney, so I have only this background to go on: another time there was a class-action suit against HAL. I ended up with a fistful of vouchers to be used toward cruise(s). They could only be used within 45 days of sailing, and had expiration dates. :rolleyes:

 

I had something like $300 worth of vouchers that I was never able to use. :(

 

What was that suit about?

[Jade13]

 

The original complainant was really ticket off at HAL! You can tell by the fact that he included in his suit, his claim that the commission from HAL sponsored shore excursion is "bilking passengers," in with the more serious "not paying the government."

 

 

What is funny to me about the whole thing is that the agent who was at the travel emergency number connected with our cruise insurance assured me that our flight to Key West, our hotel the night after the ship had sailed, the courier who transported the passport by air from Birmingham to Key West, and even the Jones Act Fine, as they called it on my receipt (even though we conclude it is really the Passenger Service Act that was violated) would be reimbursed (She even booked the hotel and flight for me but I paid, of course) because she looked at it as a lost or stolen passport, when in fact, and she knew, the passport was still in a bureau drawer at my daughter's home. My husband drove 100 miles to find it and wait for the courier. She will never forget her passport again!

 

quote]

 

Did you have a person (courier) actually bring the passport in person? Would you have booked lesser expensive accomodations if you knew you would not get reimbursed?