what if NCL offered traditional dinning also ?

[CanadianTwosome]

This may seem off topic, but bear with me... I have long hair. I love my long hair and I do all kinds of things with it. One of the things I do is roll it up with a bandana and it looks like a short bob. So... I can make my long hair (used to be down to my butt and did this) look short... but without a wig, short hair cannot be made to look long.

 

Now... how does this analogy apply? I keep seeing posts talking about how the structure of traditional dining is what works for them... but you see, while you cannot make traditional dining appear freestyle (unless you add a buffet :) ), you CAN make freestyle appear traditional. Melika, you say you like the relaxation of knowing what time you will dine every night... so... why not just decide at home 'We will dine at 5:30 every night' and then do it? Fsupharm, I'm wondering a similar thing about you... your kids are 5 and 2... don't YOU make the structure for them? I know when my daughter was five, I was still the one telling her when we would eat. We weren't on any cruises at that age (partially because I didn't know about freestye), but I can't imagine prefering to wait for assigned seating rather than feeding her when she was hungry... maybe mine got crankier than yours when her tummy was empty!

 

Freestyle doesn't mean you CAN'T eat at the same time every night... just that you don't have to. It also means that you don't have to dress up for supper... so I'm still a bit confused, Melika, about why you couldn't eat in the main dining rooms... Certainly there are busier times than others, but if you went at the same times as you would be eating on a traditional cruise, I'm surprised there was an hour long wait every night. From the way you describe your experience at the buffet, I can't imagine first getting there, then having to get up and down for all the plates you needed to fill, would have been much less time than waiting... it certainly wouldn't have been as relaxing! I guess I'll find out for myself on the Star in a few weeks.

 

I guess the idea that freestyle is somehow 'stressful' because of the lack of structure is just confusing to me. My life is so scheduled during the rest of the year... not only am I happy to get away from it... but if I choose to, I'm fully capable of setting a schedule for my vacation as well. I don't need anyone to tell me what time to eat - if I want it to be the same time every night, I'll do that!! As has been mentioned, I think the weird thing is that if the people who love traditional dining so much actually chose to eat at the times that traditional dining is traditionally set, they'd rarely find a line on an NCL ship. It's like saying 'I don't like freestyle because when I eat when I want there are too many other people who want to eat at the same time, but I do like traditional because when I'm forced to eat at the same time every day, whether it's when I want or not, and whether I'm hungry then or not, I feel more relaxed.' Seems like most people want to eat at 'nontraditional' times (hence the lines)... but of course again, as with most things, I guess it's about personal preference. Me, I prefer NOT to be told when I can and can't eat, and I'm prepared to enjoy my surroundings and the company of the people I choose to spend time with if I have to wait (like I often do at home, only in MUCH more pleasant surroundings). I think back to one cruise I was on, when my assigned dining time also meant my assigned 'sit at a table with a loudmouthed obnoxious ass', and freestyle just becomes that much more appealing!!! :)

[electricron]

McDonalds has sold burgers since their founding and KFC still serves chicken. The comparison is not a good one. No one has suggested they eliminate freestyle in this thread also. You can also thank Mr. Kloster, and those of us that supported this line before Star's takeover that NCL still existed in the late 90's to be a takeover target.

 

But to add traditional dining into one restaurant, NCL would have to KILL the Freestyle Dining concept.

 

Example: Out of 2000 passengers, 700 decide they wanted a "Traditional" dining experence. Since no restaurant can sit 600 at once, so a second restaurant would have to be designated "Traditional". That leaves NO restaurants for those wanting what NCL advertises, a FREESTYLE dining experience.

 

IT WILL NEVER WORK!

 

And while we're at it, how about returning Tuxedoes and Evening Dress attire for that Traditional dinning room, EVERY NIGHT, like on Cunard?

 

That's not Freestyle either. It'll be more like Princess. I say let Princess and NCL do their own things. Let's not try to make one like the other.

 

I REPEAT, if you want TRADITIONAL, sail on a TRADITIONAL cruise line. You'll be happy, and so will we!

[Cosmopolitan]

As I understand the Freestyle, the idea is that there is enough flexibilty to accomodate varied tastes. If a large portion of its clientel 15-20% would like to know when and were they are eating and who was going to be serving them - why not accomodate it?

 

Perhaps because NCL is having no trouble filling their ships to capacity AND perhaps because the traditional cruise lines are now offering "pay" and "freestyle" restaurants (copying NCL) even though they are not equipped to handle it;)

 

A "large" portion of clientel is NOT 15-20%:confused: It is LESS than 25%.

Much lower than the other 75% who enjoy freestyle!

[CanadianTwosome]

As I understand the Freestyle, the idea is that there is enough flexibilty to accomodate varied tastes. If a large portion of its clientel 15-20% would like to know when and were they are eating and who was going to be serving them - why not accomodate it?

 

I think the answer to this question is that, to some extent, they do. How? By allowing ALL passengers to choose when and where to eat every day. As I was saying above, if you want to eat at a traditional dining time every night, typically 5:30 or 8:00 if my memory serves me, these are not generally high traffic times. If having the same server at the same time is part of what is important, find out which restaurant the server will be in and go there. Why is it so difficult to follow your own schedule rather than one imposed by the cruiseline? Please note, saying 'because there are always long lines' is not a valid argument in this case, because I'm saying that if people want traditional dining, it's really only feasible at traditional times, and those are NOT historically times when there are long lines - because it's not when most people CHOOSE to eat. Hmmmmm... I wonder if that's why freestyle is so popular... :p

[Cosmopolitan]

Hmmmmm... I wonder if that's why freestyle is so popular... :p

 

I agree...same point I made above:)

[nealstuber]

I think the answer to this question is that, to some extent, they do. How? By allowing ALL passengers to choose when and where to eat every day. As I was saying above, if you want to eat at a traditional dining time every night, typically 5:30 or 8:00 if my memory serves me, these are not generally high traffic times. If having the same server at the same time is part of what is important, find out which restaurant the server will be in and go there. Why is it so difficult to follow your own schedule rather than one imposed by the cruiseline? Please note, saying 'because there are always long lines' is not a valid argument in this case, because I'm saying that if people want traditional dining, it's really only feasible at traditional times, and those are NOT historically times when there are long lines - because it's not when most people CHOOSE to eat. Hmmmmm... I wonder if that's why freestyle is so popular... :p

 

Part of what makes a cruise different from other vactions is the opportunity to share common experiences with fellow passengers. We all still get on to the ship together, go to the same places... its like being part of a special community for a while. Traditional dining goes hand and hand with this notion.

 

I only pulled the 15 to 20% number up because thats the interest level it would take for it to make sense to block off the smaller of the two resturaunts for a couple hours. I have no idea what the real interest level would be.

 

Maybe we can post a poll tomorrow.

[Cosmopolitan]

Part of what makes a cruise different from other vactions is the opportunity to share common experiences with fellow passengers. We all still get on to the ship together, go to the same places... its like being part of a special community for a while. Traditional dining goes hand and hand with this notion.

 

Aha! But YOU did not like your seating (traditional) with children at your table..luck of the draw!

That would NOT happen with FREESTYLE;) Children would NOT be at your table if you did not bring your own children. Ahem!

Passengers with other children would welcome sitting at a table with other children...freestyle or traditional...you did NOT;)

 

Your children were NOT on that cruise. You changed your seating.

Which way do you want it? Freestyle or traditional?

I only pulled the 15 to 20% number up because thats the interest level it would take for it to make sense to block off the smaller of the two resturaunts for a couple hours. I have no idea what the real interest level would be.

 

Maybe we can post a poll tomorrow.

 

Yup...

1)on whether you take your children or/not on a certain cruise and what table you want to be seated at....Adults only (regardless of their personalities) and/or children or not.

2) Do the adults drink or not?

3) Are they friendly or not?

4) Do they arrive on time for dinner or not?

5) Do they dress up or not?

Good Luck:)

[CanadianTwosome]

Part of what makes a cruise different from other vactions is the opportunity to share common experiences with fellow passengers. We all still get on to the ship together, go to the same places... its like being part of a special community for a while. Traditional dining goes hand and hand with this notion.

 

I only pulled the 15 to 20% number up because thats the interest level it would take for it to make sense to block off the smaller of the two resturaunts for a couple hours. I have no idea what the real interest level would be.

 

Maybe we can post a poll tomorrow.

 

You bring up a good point, Neal, as you often do. I see it differently, however... as I often do! :p

 

I agree that being on a ship is like being part of a 'temporary community'. I've been in group travel situations on land as well, and I've always liked that 'getting to know' the others that happens in those situations. On a ship, though, there are so many people that I would much rather spend my time with people I have things in common with. On our last cruise we met a couple our age with a daughter the same age as ours. We ate with them every night except one - when they chose to go to Le Bistro and we didn't want to. We spent that dinner with another wonderful couple we had met at karaoke. Both couples were people that we enjoyed doing other things with as well as eating. I get confused, so I'm not sure if it was this thread I mentioned this before, but I had an experience on a traditional ship once in which a man at my assigned table was a complete ass. I was not able to change tables, so for a week, I had to endure his company. It was horrible, and it really affected my ability to enjoy my dinners.

 

So yes, I absolutely enjoy getting to know some of my fellow travellers and spend time with them... I just prefer to get to choose whom I spend that time with for myself. I know I had a lot more in common with the two couples we chose to eat with on our last cruise than I would have with couples that were big gamblers, or who were 20 or 30 years apart from us in age. In effect, though, we did have the same tablemates every night but one, pretty much like traditional dining... but they were our choice, not the luck of the draw. Personally I like the former. I'm not saying that you won't end up with nice people at your table on a traditional cruise... but if the only thing you have in common with them is an assigned table... wouldn't you prefer to spend that time with some new friends you made enjoying a common interest? Based on my experience, this is actually one of the best things about freestyle - choosing your dining companions so that you can have the best 'getting to know you' and sharing experience possible. :)

[deepnite10]

as i state d earlier..if Freestyle is truly go to be complete..a traditional

venue need s to be include d..not excluded..freedom of choice..is nt that what NCL is trying to impress on all of the cruising public..

 

my experience with NCL dining..no waiting in main dining..less than 2 mins.

at the specialty restaraunt s..

 

having to eat at 6 pm every night is too much like when i was a kid..when

mom would say DINNER IS READY..and you had better be there !!:o

 

is nt it nicer to eat every night at 6 pm.. and if choose not too mom is

still going to happy to serve you anything you want when you want it?:D

[smeyer418]

its funny that this was asked for. This is from the Cruise Critic story on the NCL Gem

 

 

"On Norwegian Gem, there are 12 different restaurant options featuring cuisine from many parts of the globe. Some are fee-extra; some are not. Among those that levy a surcharge include Cagney's Steakhouse, the French Le Bistro, the Orchid Garden and the Teppanyaki Room. Those that don't cost extra include La Cucina, an Italian restaurant; Tequila Latin, for tapas; and the 24-hour Blue Lagoon. A duo of "general" restaurants (at these, you can organize a set-seating, set-table scenario by talking with a maitre d') includes Grand Pacific and Magenta. Other options include the Garden Cafe, the action-station "buffet" venue -- don't miss the fantastic kid-sized Kid's Cafe there -- and casual daytime eateries like the Great Outdoors, Topside Grill and Bali Hai." emphasis added.....

[beachchick]

That is what makes cruising a unique experience. There are those of use who like the attention to detail of having the same waiter every night. It is one of the reasons why I prefer cruising over land based vacations.

 

If this were any other thread on any other forum debating why the cruise line shouldn't have "freestyle" type dining, someone would have written to all those who want freestyle options: "Well, then bye, go cruise on a line that offers it." The reverse here would be "Well, then, go cruise on a line that offers traditional dining."

 

However, I've always found those sorts of responses petty and childish. Instead I will say that the best thing to do is not debate the issue here, but instead write to NCL management an express why you want to have traditional dining on a cruise line that you otherwise enjoy and explain why it would add to the cruise experience for you.

 

We don't care if we have any kind of relationship with our wait staff; we don't care if they know what we do and do not usually drink; we sure as heck don't want them to have "our" drink waiting for us every night because (1) we don't always dine in the dining rooms and (2) we don't necessarily want the same thing every night. The only attention to detail we want is for whoever is serving us at any given meal to be polite, make sure we have beverages/rolls/whatever, explain menu options as needed, take our order promptly, and deliver/clear our dishes appropriately and pleasantly. In fact, we have had those kind of experiences on NCL and in specialty restaurants on other cruise lines' ships.

 

It's amazing to me how nasty some posters on other threads have been toward members who express and interest in having some freestyle and some traditional options. As if even having the option is so horrible, so offensive that no one should have the choice.

 

So, if NCL wanted to have traditional dining for one of the dining rooms on each ship, I say why not try it. See how it goes. OTOH, the whole Freestyle concept that NCL has instituted is geared toward moving away from the regimented dining. (I do think the NCL commercials are insulting to other cruise lines, but that's a whole other discussion.)

 

beachchick

[beachchick]

You bring up a good point, Neal, as you often do. I see it differently, however... as I often do! :p

 

I agree that being on a ship is like being part of a 'temporary community'. I've been in group travel situations on land as well, and I've always liked that 'getting to know' the others that happens in those situations. On a ship, though, there are so many people that I would much rather spend my time with people I have things in common with. On our last cruise we met a couple our age with a daughter the same age as ours. We ate with them every night except one - when they chose to go to Le Bistro and we didn't want to. We spent that dinner with another wonderful couple we had met at karaoke. Both couples were people that we enjoyed doing other things with as well as eating. I get confused, so I'm not sure if it was this thread I mentioned this before, but I had an experience on a traditional ship once in which a man at my assigned table was a complete ass. I was not able to change tables, so for a week, I had to endure his company. It was horrible, and it really affected my ability to enjoy my dinners.

 

So yes, I absolutely enjoy getting to know some of my fellow travellers and spend time with them... I just prefer to get to choose whom I spend that time with for myself. I know I had a lot more in common with the two couples we chose to eat with on our last cruise than I would have with couples that were big gamblers, or who were 20 or 30 years apart from us in age. In effect, though, we did have the same tablemates every night but one, pretty much like traditional dining... but they were our choice, not the luck of the draw. Personally I like the former. I'm not saying that you won't end up with nice people at your table on a traditional cruise... but if the only thing you have in common with them is an assigned table... wouldn't you prefer to spend that time with some new friends you made enjoying a common interest? Based on my experience, this is actually one of the best things about freestyle - choosing your dining companions so that you can have the best 'getting to know you' and sharing experience possible. :)

 

Beautifully (and politely) stated!:D We agree.

 

beachchick

[JWestShuh]

CanadianTwosome, I don't think you could have explained how traditional can be accomplished on NCL any better. I don't know why NCL has to change their entire system for a group of people who prefer traditional - even though when they book the cruise they know full well that it is the freestyle concept. I could understand it better if it is your first time on NCL and you are surprised by how the freestyle seating works. For people who continue to argue for traditional on NCL, CT has given you a way to accomplish this. Eat at the same time during a regular traditional seating time seen on other cruise ships. See how that works on your next cruise and THEN come back to cruise critic and tell us how it went. I agree with CT that I would much rather make the decision of when I where and with whom I will eat. My boss is a frequent cruiser and when I asked her about that she said that NCL is not for her. Her words exactly - "I prefer to be a sheep on vacation. Tell me where to go, let me follow the line of others in front of me. No thinking allowed on vacation." To each his own.

[Retired not Expired]

McDonalds has sold burgers since their founding and KFC still serves chicken. The comparison is not a good one. No one has suggested they eliminate freestyle in this thread also. It has just been brought up as an additional feature to possibly add in the future. You can also thank Mr. Kloster, and those of us that supported this line before Star's takeover that NCL still existed in the late 90's to be a takeover target.

Yes, they have. Freestyle means every restaurant is made available to every passenger. If you take one away for traditional, then the rest becomes anytime dining, not freestyle.

[Retired not Expired]

Sorry folks, I’ve always wanted to say this on this board.

 

If you go to a traditional line board and ask about not dressing formal, you get dozen of people saying, “IF YOU DON’T WANT TO DRESS UP, GO TO THE BUFFET”.

 

If you ask about anytime dining, the same dozens of people say, “IF YOU WANT ANYTIME, GO TO THE BUFFET”.

 

In fact, if you ask about anything out of the traditional dining norm, you get, “IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT, GO TO THE BUFFET”.

 

Well folks, here it is:

 

IF YOU DON’T WANT TO GO TO A FREESTYLE MAIN DINING ROOM ON NCL, GO TO THE BUFFET.

 

Again, I’m sorry but this did feel good. I just get so tired of hearing traditionalists tell anyone who doesn’t want to conform to the 1980’s cruising experience to GO TO THE BUFFET.

[whale-watcher]

We have no interest in fixed seating dining...no need to feel as though we are watching the clock as evening, no need to have the same waitstaff and tablemates every evening, no need to rush back from a busy port day to eat at an insanely early hour or to twiddle our thumbs waiting for late seating on a day we are interested in dining earlier.

 

In the past, we have really enjoyed anytime dining on princess but hated fixed seating on RC (ate at the buffet most nights instead). We are excited about the chance to finally try NCL freestyle in just 2 weeks!!

[nealstuber]

Yup...

1)on whether you take your children or/not on a certain cruise and what table you want to be seated at....Adults only (regardless of their personalities) and/or children or not.

2) Do the adults drink or not?

3) Are they friendly or not?

4) Do they arrive on time for dinner or not?

5) Do they dress up or not?

 

Good Luck:)

 

 

This was a response to the innacurate posistion that stated "You are STUCK" at a table on other cruiselines. We have never felt STUCK. We like traditional dining but have, from time to time, gone to late seating when we were in early seating and vice versa and been seated without issue. This is good information for folks weighing the pros and cons of traditional vs freestyle dining.

[nealstuber]

CanadianTwosome, I don't think you could have explained how traditional can be accomplished on NCL any better. I don't know why NCL has to change their entire system for a group of people who prefer traditional - even though when they book the cruise they know full well that it is the freestyle concept. I could understand it better if it is your first time on NCL and you are surprised by how the freestyle seating works. For people who continue to argue for traditional on NCL, CT has given you a way to accomplish this. Eat at the same time during a regular traditional seating time seen on other cruise ships. See how that works on your next cruise and THEN come back to cruise critic and tell us how it went. I agree with CT that I would much rather make the decision of when I where and with whom I will eat. My boss is a frequent cruiser and when I asked her about that she said that NCL is not for her. Her words exactly - "I prefer to be a sheep on vacation. Tell me where to go, let me follow the line of others in front of me. No thinking allowed on vacation." To each his own.

 

Just as a reasonable facisimile of traditional dining can be accomplished on a freestyle ship, a reasonable substitue for freestyle can be had on a traditional ship - particularly if its a ship with an alternative resturaunt or two.

 

I don't find the NCL's commercials that spend most of there time talking about what other lines do annoying. I preffer the CCL, RCCL and X commercials that convey what it is that each line does well (fun, adventure, and escape) without having to put down other lines to do it. Isn't NCL's product good enough to stand on its own merits, without the "relative measure" of other cruiselines? In this hotly contested election year, a commerical that went something like this might work...

I'm voting Republican because I think I can do a better job spending my money and insuring my family than the government can. I'm crusing NCL because I think I can do a better job planning my cruise experience than the cruiseline can.

 

OK so it needs some work. But honestly, I think they really "missed the boat" with NCLA. They have the only ships crewed by Americans, going to beautiful American ports. How do you not spend you advertising dollars emphasising this instead of "what the other cruiselines do.".

[Planer's Edge]

at it again

 

PE

[nealstuber]

Yes, they have. Freestyle means every restaurant is made available to every passenger. If you take one away for traditional, then the rest becomes anytime dining, not freestyle.

 

Or it becomes Freestyle 2.1

[Bennett'sCruise]

I don't find the NCL's commercials that spend most of there time talking about what other lines do annoying. I preffer the CCL, RCCL and X commercials that convey what it is that each line does well (fun, adventure, and escape) without having to put down other lines to do it.

 

Hmmmmm ... kinda like you spending so much time on the NCL boards when you did not like their product? Why ... oh ... why do you stick around here if you were so unhappy? Just find the cruise line that pleases you and contribute over there. :o

Actually, I really like NCL's commercials. It helps explain what Freestyle is all about. As someone who is in the business of selling cruises, I get asked all the time to explain Freestyle ... which I do with joy! :) I find the NCL commercials to be pretty funny, cutting-edge, and refreshing. It portrays the thinking that NCL as a company stands for. *It's YOUR vacation ... do it YOUR way!*

 

~d

[Retired not Expired]

Or it becomes Freestyle 2.1

Nope. Then it becomes Anytime 1.0

 

If one can't see the difference, they don't understand freestyle.

[Vyhanek]

About dress up clothes..........

 

The other lines don't REQUIRE formal dress in the dining rooms on formal night anymore. I don't know about Princess but last year when I cruised Royal Caribean and Carnival only about half the cruisers were dressed formally on formal night.

 

I'm not understanding these comments about loving NCL because you don't have to pack formal clothes. You don't have to dress up on the other lines either to eat in the dining room. The dress code option isn't some special unique NCL thing.

 

I like traditional dining because of the structure of the meal and the PACE. The NCL wait staff doesn't have down the ability to move the food and the meal along in Freestyle. You can get some really slow service when your waiter is trying to manage different tables at different courses thru the meal. The waiters that do the best job with Freestyle are the OLD waiters who have been around awhile and who have personal knowledge of how the traditional dining pace works.

[nealstuber]

Why ... oh ... why do you stick around here if you were so unhappy?

~d

If you read my review of the Spirit, or some of my posts, you would see that I was happy with my cruise, and very pleased with the 2.0 announcement.

 

As to "Its your vacation, do it your way" - if there were enough PAX to fill one seating in one of the dining rooms for a Traditional cruise meal, why not do it their way?

 

As others have mentioned, the other lines have taken steps towards the middle on this issue. Why can't NCL?

[Retired not Expired]

About dress up clothes..........

 

The other lines don't REQUIRE formal dress in the dining rooms on formal night anymore. I don't know about Princess but last year when I cruised Royal Caribean and Carnival only about half the cruisers were dressed formally on formal night.

 

I'm not understanding these comments about loving NCL because you don't have to pack formal clothes. You don't have to dress up on the other lines either to eat in the dining room. The dress code option isn't some special unique NCL thing.

 

I like traditional dining because of the structure of the meal and the PACE. The NCL wait staff doesn't have down the ability to move the food and the meal along in Freestyle. You can get some really slow service when your waiter is trying to manage different tables at different courses thru the meal. The waiters that do the best job with Freestyle are the OLD waiters who have been around awhile and who have personal knowledge of how the traditional dining pace works.

I agree. You don't have to go formal on most of those others to eat in main dining. I also know most traditionalist won't believe it, but most who sail on NCL do believe in going with what is requested and would feel uncomfortable not dressing formal when it is requested. When they stop requesting, I'm sure some would sail on them that don't do so now.