Singles and As You Wish Dining

[docksider21]

The reason why fixed seating appears to be full even a year out is that HAL is holding back space for potential groups and high production travel agents.

 

But even the waitlist for traditional seating closes out early. Why not allocate these potential groups to anytime dining. If they need to eat as a group, the group co-ordinator can make a fixed reservation for them at their tables in the anytime dining room. That will free up space in the traditional dining room for those of us who are not in a group, to have a shot at least in getting a fixed table with fixed tablemates. I do not want to be relegated to a one-top, nor having to be pawned off each nite with new people.

 

PS -- I sure hope someone at HAL is reading these threads!

[RevNeal]

There is no factual evidence to support that those who want traditional dining are regularly disappointed. Those who post on this board represent a small fraction of those who sail with HAL. The majority of people on this board seem to fear not getting what they want. In reality most do get what they want. When too many want the same thing, at the same time, some of them are going to be disappointed.

 

1. There are many people who, due to the uncertainty of being able to get Traditional seating, will NOT book AT ALL. That generates disappointment because those people feel as though they are not able to get what they want. We've seen this reported on this board on multiple occasions. The point is NOT that they can't get it if they take a chance ... it is true that many will be able to. But there are MANY who refuse to take the chance at not being able to. Indeed, there are some for whom this is such a deal-breaker that they will NOT book unless they can get a confirmation of having Fixed Seating. And, as we sadly discovered on the Rotterdam, Jan 27th, even such a confirmation is MEANINGLESS. And, before you start chanting your tired mantra that CC is not representative of all HAL passengers ... we are AT LEAST reflective of SOME HAL passengers, not all of whom post here; to imply that the ONLY people who have problems with not being able to get Traditional Seating are those who post here is EQUALLY fallacious ... yet, this is tangentially implied when you repeatedly make your point that CC is not a representative sampling. True, we are not a representative sampling ... but, likewise, neither are we a comprehensive collection of all those who are having this problem and are being disappointed on this issue. That I managed to get Traditional Dining aboard the Rotterdam is BESIDE THE POINT. That I didn't know until I boarded, and that hundreds of others didn't know until they boarded, and that some who THOUGHT THEY KNEW before they boarded but discovered that they were wrong and that they didn't have it when they boarded, IS THE POINT. THEY were disappointed in reality. I and others like me, were disappointed in having to wonder and fear and anticipate not getting what I wanted (a downer in the days running up to a cruise).

 

2. Go to HAL's website, and do a survey of how many cruises you can even get on the waitlist in Traditional. Try 7 months. I just surveyed, at random, 10 cruises in Alaska this coming September. I could NOT get anything but Open Seating. Traditional was closed. There is no choice in such cases, and that generates disappointment and frustration in trying to find a cruise with the dining options that you want.

 

3. Open is nearly always available. That's the nature of the beast, of course ... it will almost always remain available. Hence, those who wish it are almost NEVER disappointed. Those who want Traditional, however ARE often disappointed. This is not based upon this board ... it's based upon a survey of HAL's website which demonstrates how DIFFICULT it is to get a confirmation for Traditional Dining on ANY SAILING.

[hammybee]

 

Why not allocate these potential groups to anytime dining. If they need to eat as a group, the group co-ordinator can make a fixed reservation for them at their tables in the anytime dining room. That will free up space in the traditional dining room for those of us who are not in a group, to have a shot at least in getting a fixed table with fixed tablemates. /quote]

 

Based upon a 2007 press release, it appears that HAL's intent was to encourage groups to take Open Seating. Sometimes it works and sometimes, not.

 

A cabin is a fungible commodity. The one who can buy more, usually gets more.

 

I am hard-pressed to imagine a cruise line that is not going to do whatever it takes to secure a sizable group or multiple group bookings versus risking empty cabins or sales of unsold cabin space at distress sale prices.

[hammybee]

1. There are many people who, due to the uncertainty of being able to get Traditional seating, will NOT book AT ALL. That generates disappointment because those people feel as though they are not able to get what they want.

 

Uncertainty= fear of the unknown. And I agree that the uncertainty is more than some passengers are willing to bear and they are probably more inclined to sail with another cruise line if it provides certainty. That's OK. There are certainly more than enough alternatives out there for everyone.

 

I will also say that there are many reports here of people who were forced into Open Seating and they actually enjoyed the experience and now seem to prefer it to fixed seating.

 

Traditional seating is not selling out 6-8-10,12+ months into the future just as Early Seating did not always sell out well into the future. HAL is holding back space for groups, top producing agencies, VIP clients and Deluxe Suite passengers.

[RevNeal]

Traditional seating is not selling out 6-8-10,12+ months into the future just as Early Seating did not always sell out well into the future. HAL is holding back space for groups, top producing agencies, VIP clients and Deluxe Suite passengers.

 

If it is IMPOSSIBLE to book Traditional because it says "closed," then YES ... it's sold out and it's CLOSED. You can't even get on the wait-list in such cases. And that's the case for a LOT of cruises 7-9 months out.

 

When it says "wait-listed," you're right ... it's not sold out ... it's on reserve to see what the final lay-of-the-land is. In such cases I'm willing to toss the dice and see what I get. Not everybody is willing to do this ... it might as well be sold out for them.

[kryos]

2. Go to HAL's website, and do a survey of how many cruises you can even get on the waitlist in Traditional. Try 7 months. I just surveyed, at random, 10 cruises in Alaska this coming September. I could NOT get anything but Open Seating. Traditional was closed. There is no choice in such cases, and that generates disappointment and frustration in trying to find a cruise with the dining options that you want.

 

3. Open is nearly always available.

 

I'd be willing to bet that Traditional is not "closed." HAL is just not making any commitments on traditional dining until they see how the passenger complement shakes out on that far-in-the-future booking. Of course, the groups will get top priority, and then the people in suites or with suite enhancement packages will get their first choice. Then the matri 'd will fill in the remaining spots in traditional ... but not before.

 

So, if you like early seating in traditional (which seems to be very popular), depending on how early you book, and then how many groups may be onboard your sailing ... and, of course, how many suite passengers request that dining slot ... you'll either get it or not.

 

Now if getting into traditional dining is what's really important to you, then your next option would be to see if the matri 'd can seat you in late traditional. If that too is filled, then guess what? You'll be in open seating, at least until such a time as a traditional slot opens up ... which could well be two or three days into the cruise.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[RuthC]

There is no factual evidence to support that those who want traditional dining are regularly disappointed. Those who post on this board represent a small fraction of those who sail with HAL.

It's time to take off the rose-colored glasses, hammybee. The only people who have posted that they didn't get what they requested are those who requested traditional seating. There has been not one post from someone who requested open sitting, but was assigned to traditional. Are those not facts?

There have been many reports of fellow passengers telling the same, sad, tale re: not getting traditional seating. Are those not facts? Or do those reports not count because they're not first-person reports?

True, those who post on CC represent a small fraction of all HAL's passengers, but that does not mean we cannot be representative of all passengers. There is no factual evidence that we are not a true sample.

[hammybee]

It's time to take off the rose-colored glasses, hammybee. The only people who have posted that they didn't get what they requested are those who requested traditional seating. There has been not one post from someone who requested open sitting, but was assigned to traditional. Are those not facts?

There have been many reports of fellow passengers telling the same, sad, tale re: not getting traditional seating. Are those not facts? Or do those reports not count because they're not first-person reports?

 

True, those who post on CC represent a small fraction of all HAL's passengers, but that does not mean we cannot be representative of all passengers. There is no factual evidence that we are not a true sample.

Open Seating was limited to a large group on the Mother's Day sailing of the Noordam last year. There were posts from passengers who chose HAL over other cruise lines specifically because it had Open Seating. They did not learn they had been bumped, till they boarded. I think it was poster "spacecat" who upon learning she had been bumped did not even have an assigned table or time in fixed seating. It was a mess. When and if the CC search feature returns, feel free to check it out.

 

Here is a link to a very recent situation that quickly became a charter so it did not matter: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=719114

 

 

Ruth, it's far more about HAL's flexibility to accommodate group business, not that the first 1000 passengers prefer and choose fixed seating 10- 12 months before a sail, that is the root cause of so many waitlists. It's unlikely that a fraction of the available cabins get sold this far into the future unless its group space.

 

There are many posters on this board who know of one at least one travel agency who can almost always ensure their clients get what they want. These agencies are high volume, connected and service oriented. They are not however, the lowest cost providers.

 

And indeed there are many reports from those who got bumped into Open seating and not only lived to tell, they enjoyed it.

 

No way we will ever know how many groups were on your sail and their impact, if any, on dining preferences. I think this was the first instance that I recall that some with confirmed fixed seatings got bumped. It's terrible that it happened, but not exactly a pattern, is it?

[hammybee]

True, those who post on CC represent a small fraction of all HAL's passengers, but that does not mean we cannot be representative of all passengers. There is no factual evidence that we are not a true sample.

 

Well I don't know about that.

 

Most who post here seem to enjoy black tie evenings, and yet.......

 

I have yet to read a post from someone who said I allow my kids to run the hallways till the wee hours and yet...

 

I have yet to read a post from a parent who said they put their diapered baby in the pool/hot tub and yet...

 

I have yet to read a post where anyone admits to being a chair hog and yet...

 

I have yet to read a post from someone who was not a courteous smoker and yet....

 

I have yet to read a post from someone disclosing they were an obnoxious drunk and yet...

 

And in all the years, there have been few posts from people who owned up to stiffing the crew and yet....

 

There are very few posts from people who love the art auctions and buy, buy, buy and yet.......

 

- I am a grain of sand in the big picture.

[RevNeal]

I'd be willing to bet that Traditional is not "closed." HAL is just not making any commitments on traditional dining until they see how the passenger complement shakes out on that far-in-the-future booking. Of course, the groups will get top priority, and then the people in suites or with suite enhancement packages will get their first choice. Then the matri 'd will fill in the remaining spots in traditional ... but not before.

 

The classification in such cases is "waitlist." When HAL lists a dining option as "Closed" on a cruise, it is not possible to even get on the waitlist to get in line for the Maitre' D to slot you in.

 

So, if you like early seating in traditional (which seems to be very popular), depending on how early you book, and then how many groups may be onboard your sailing ... and, of course, how many suite passengers request that dining slot ... you'll either get it or not.

 

I prefer Main Seating in Traditional. Yet, it is listed as "Closed" about as often as is "Early." Usually Early DOES switch from "Open" to "Waitlist" and from "Waitlist" to "Close" ahead of Main, but not much before Main. BOTH options are usually listed as "Closed" by 6 months out. One are both are usually listed as "Waitlisted" as soon as 10 months out. For instance, the January 3, 2009 sailing of the Euordam in the Caribbean lists Early Upper Dining as being "Waitlisted" and Main Upper as being "Closed." Open Seating is, of course, still "Available." That's a little over 10 months out. Usually it's reversed from this, but that's an interesting example, chosen at random.

 

Now if getting into traditional dining is what's really important to you, then your next option would be to see if the matri 'd can seat you in late traditional. If that too is filled, then guess what? You'll be in open seating, at least until such a time as a traditional slot opens up ... which could well be two or three days into the cruise.

 

Or never, as was often the case on the Rotterdam.

For me, if I couldn't get Upper Main I would go for the Open Seating and would make reservations for the same table, the same time, every night. Of course, it would help if I had friends (like you) with me aboard to join me in that reservation.

[airlink diva]

I'm sailing solo on the Maasdam later this fall. I requested fixed seating with my TA. I even told her that if I have to, I take the early fixed seating dining time.

My fear is like alot of the solo cruises, if I have open seating and arrive for dinner, I'm bounce around each time.

I know that there are families and couples and groups of friends that want to enjoy each other and that's why they are cruising together. While most would not mind others, some do. Also, it's like when I was young and in gym you were pick for teams. There were always the last few people that the teams took because they had no other choice.

I enjoy meeting new people when cruising and the dining with others is at the top of my list. However, I want to dine with the same people every night.

I hope that HAL place me with the traditional dining. If not, I will make the best of it and hope that I meet some great people.

Happy sailing!!

[kryos]

For me, if I couldn't get Upper Main I would go for the Open Seating and would make reservations for the same table, the same time, every night. Of course, it would help if I had friends (like you) with me aboard to join me in that reservation.

Why not consider the Hawaii/South Pacific cruise for this September? Then we could have a whole 35 days to spend together? I would love nothing more than to have the opportunity to share a cruise with you. Heck, I'd even gussy up on formal night for you. :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[hammybee]

I'm sailing solo on the Maasdam later this fall. I requested fixed seating with my TA. I even told her that if I have to, I take the early fixed seating dining time.

My fear is like alot of the solo cruises, if I have open seating and arrive for dinner, I'm bounce around each time.

I know that there are families and couples and groups of friends that want to enjoy each other and that's why they are cruising together. While most would not mind others, some do. Also, it's like when I was young and in gym you were pick for teams. There were always the last few people that the teams took because they had no other choice.

I enjoy meeting new people when cruising and the dining with others is at the top of my list. However, I want to dine with the same people every night.

I hope that HAL place me with the traditional dining. If not, I will make the best of it and hope that I meet some great people.

Happy sailing!!

 

I have yet to sail solo and will at some future time. I would be more inclined to seek Open Seating because I would be ensured of being seated with someone.

 

It makes me nuts to be seated at a large table in fixed seating and wait on tablemates who don't show and it never dawns on them that we and the Wait Staff are indeed waiting and wondering.

 

I do not want to be the solo passenger all gussied up on a formal night, sitting alone at a large table, feeling like a wilting wall flower.

 

I get it. It's their vacation and a lot of cruisers do not consider or care about the social dependencies/responsibilities that fixed seating entails. And so they do not inform anyone that they spontaneously changed their plans for the evening and are sitting in the hot tub, with a bottle of wine, while I am on my third glass of water and second dinner roll, checking my watch, at the dinner table.

 

This is my personal fear of the unknown.

[cruz chic]

I have yet to sail solo and will at some future time. I would be more inclined to seek Open Seating because I would be ensured of being seated with someone.

 

It makes me nuts to be seated at a large table in fixed seating and wait on tablemates who don't show and it never dawns on them that we and the Wait Staff are indeed waiting and wondering.

 

I do not want to be the solo passenger all gussied up on a formal night, sitting alone at a large table, feeling like a wilting wall flower.

 

I get it. It's their vacation and a lot of cruisers do not consider or care about the social dependencies/responsibilities that fixed seating entails. And so they do not inform anyone that they spontaneously changed their plans for the evening and are sitting in the hot tub, with a bottle of wine, while I am on my third glass of water and second dinner roll, checking my watch, at the dinner table.

 

This is my personal fear of the unknown.

 

It's been rare when I have been at a big table by myself all dressed up. On my Ryndam cruise in Oct.07 we had 30 foot waves for part of the journey. The dining room was pretty empty for the first 4 days. On the last day a couple of 20 somethings showed up at my table. They had missed the other 3 nights due to the rough seas. It was so painful dining with these people as they acted like a couple of 2 year olds. The empty table was more entertaining. The nights I was alone I did get invited to other tables and one night I took a couple up on that. They were awesome! It doesn't bother me too much to be seated alone. I've had a lot worse tablemates in the open seating at breakfast and lunch!

[JerseyJaguar]

I do not want to be the solo passenger all gussied up on a formal night, sitting alone at a large table, feeling like a wilting wall flower.

And my fear with having Open Seating is being all dressed up and having tables with groups at them make it clear I am intruding. Or having to sit by myself in my fancy dress. I'd rather walk into the dining room in my finery and know exactly where I'm sitting.

[u4ea]

Even some flirting going on on this thread.;)
I've been following it, and tend to agree with hammy on the idea most people are happy. As reflected on my last cruise, those disappointed with dinning arrangement were few, thus HAL does what they do, if that makes sense.:eek:
[quote name='hammybee']I have yet to sail solo and will at some future time. I would be more inclined to seek Open Seating because I would be ensured of being seated with someone.
[/quote]
Yea, but that "someone" might be a wack job, could be the longest dinner ever.;)
With the AYW, you could have nights with a great table, and ones with the table from hell. With traditional, you either get dealt a good table or find one early in the cruise and stick with it, thus avoiding the table from hell for the rest of the cruise. (for dinner at least) ;)
Mark....

[hammybee]

[quote name='u4ea']Even some flirting going on on this thread.;)
I've been following it, and tend to agree with hammy on the idea most people are happy. As reflected on my last cruise, those disappointed with dinning arrangement were few, thus HAL does what they do, if that makes sense.:eek:

Yea, but that "someone" might be a wack job, could be the longest dinner ever.;)
With the AYW, you could have nights with a great table, and ones with the table from hell. With traditional, you either get dealt a good table or find one early in the cruise and stick with it, thus avoiding the table from hell for the rest of the cruise. (for dinner at least) ;)
Mark....[/quote]

In one of the earlier posts on this thread, Desert Diva speaks of changing her fixed seating assignment three times before she found the magic charm. I would rather risk the odds of a single night with a whack job in Open Seating than play musical chairs in fixed seating. That's just me. Milegae will vary.

( Someone once told me that if you do not meet a whack job on your cruise, chances are it's you:eek: )

[hammybee]

[quote name='JerseyJaguar']And my fear with having Open Seating is being all dressed up and having tables with groups at them make it clear I am intruding. Or having to sit by myself in my fancy dress. I'd rather walk into the dining room in my finery and know exactly where I'm sitting.[/quote]

Have you ever dined in Open Seating?

You are given the choice of dining with others, or not. Those who prefer privacy do not get intrusions. Those open to meeting others and breaking bread together, do so.

[gizmo]

[quote name='RuthC']

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#4169e1]True, those who post on CC represent a small fraction of all HAL's passengers, but that does not mean we cannot be representative of all passengers. There is no factual evidence that we are not a true sample. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

Ruth, I agree with you. There is NO evidence that we are not a true sample. There is a lot of speculation and preaching on the subject on this board.

I have read more posts about not being able to get traditional then not being able to get AYW.

It is very possible many people got stuck with AYW and didn't like it. Not everyone spends their entire cruise complaining to everyone about it. I am sure many didn't like it but made the best of it.

If AYW was so popular why is it that you cannot book traditional ? There are not that many "suite pax" that take up both seating. I have seen this excuse posted numerous time, and I am not buying it.

[RevNeal]

[quote name='kryos']Why not consider the Hawaii/South Pacific cruise for this September? Then we could have a whole 35 days to spend together? I would love nothing more than to have the opportunity to share a cruise with you. Heck, I'd even gussy up on formal night for you. :)[/QUOTE]

Rita ... I would LOVE to! But ... I just got off the Rotterdam (20 days). I'm due on the Eurodam for 23 days this summer. There is NO WAY I can justify (or afford! :eek: ) another 35 days in September. :) I've gotta work sometimes! I can't imagine what my church would say if I were to be gone in September for a WHOLE MONTH! Particularly so after having already spent 43 days on Damships already that year. 78 days in 2008???? I don't bloody think so!!! :D

But, OH ... it WOULD be fun.

How about 2009 or 2010? I'm thinking about doing the Vancouver - Hong Kong crossing in the Fall of 2009 or 2010. :D That's 30 days.

[RevNeal]

[quote name='hammybee']( Someone once told me that if you do not meet a whack job on your cruise, chances are it's you:eek: )[/QUOTE]

It's me. :D

[RevNeal]

[quote name='u4ea']Even some flirting going on on this thread.;)
I've been following it, and tend to agree with hammy on the idea most people are happy. As reflected on my last cruise, those disappointed with dinning arrangement were few, thus HAL does what they do, if that makes sense.:eek:[/QUOTE]

It makes sense, Mark ... and I also tend to agree. For most of the bread-and-butter cruises (and not the longer voyages), most people are fine and happy with it such as it is and as it exists on the ships. It's the lead-up to getting aboard -- the researching and trying to book a cruise, then the struggle and frustration with not being able to get your dining preference locked down until you actually get aboard -- that is the focus of much of the consternation. I wish HAL could make it less troubling.

My own experience aboard the Rotterdam was a positive one. I got what I requested (and was waitlisted for). Lots of people didn't, however, and ... as the saying goes (and I paraphrase): but for the grace of God sailed I.

[RevNeal]

[quote name='gizmo']If AYW was so popular why is it that you cannot book traditional ? There are not that many "suite pax" that take up both seating. I have seen this excuse posted numerous time, and I am not buying it.[/QUOTE]

The [I]Rotterdam[/I] has 36 Suites and 4 Penthouses ... for a total of 40 cabins that have Dining Priority. That's an average of 80 - 90 people (possibly less, but not a whole lot more), not ALL of whom are going to want Traditional Dining. Traditional dining on the Rotterdam (the way it is currently configured) can seat somewhere around 550-600 people in the two seatings. That's less than 1/5 of the Traditional seating area, assuming ALL suite guests demanded traditional. So ... NO ... Suite passengers are NOT the ones causing the problem.

[docksider21]

[quote name='revneal']I've gotta work sometimes! I can't imagine what my church would say if I were to be gone in September for a WHOLE MONTH! [/quote]

But, as a parish pastor, you only need 4 maybe 5 days off to be off a whole month, right?:D [tehe, tehe]

[twinkletoes4445]

[quote name='gizmo'] There is NO evidence that we are not a true sample. There is a lot of speculation and preaching on the subject on this board.

I have read more posts about not being able to get traditional then not being able to get AYW.

It is very possible many people got stuck with AYW and didn't like it. Not everyone spends their entire cruise complaining to everyone about it. I am sure many didn't like it but made the best of it.

If AYW was so popular why is it that you cannot book traditional ? There are not that many "suite pax" that take up both seating. I have seen this excuse posted numerous time, and I am not buying it.[/QUOTE]

I agree completely with what you are saying.

I know that I want nothing to do with AYWD. Period. It doesn't matter if I am traveling solo or with someone...I don't want to dine in this fashion. And this "freestyle" dining is what has kept us away from other lines.