RevNeal's LIVE Eurodam Report

[kryos]

At the very least a loud NO and confine the darlings:rolleyes: to their rooms whenever they misbehave.

Yeah, but that would penalize the parents too much. After all, do you think those little darlings would stay in that cabin while mom and dad were out and about having fun onboard the ship? No sooner the parents left, the kids would be right behind them.

 

Now what I think would be a better idea would be for the parents to ASK the hotel manager if the kids could be confined to the brig for 24 hours the next time they are caught running around the ship, breaking rules and creating hazards. In that case, problem solved. Mom and dad's fun is not impacted and the rest of the passengers will be free of the little monsters. And, who knows, maybe the experience will have a good effect on the kids and make them mind their manners for the rest of the cruise.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Isn't there an excursion for unrulies called "Waterskiing from the Stern of the Ship?"

 

Or, how about "bungee jumping from the bow?" :)

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[COLandlocked]

I am an avid lurker on this board and a parent of three...

 

I agree that children should be mannered and well behaved. My youngest, 8, is very well traveled and mannered. I honestly believe it is up to the parents to instill these virtues in their children from a young age. Yes he likes to run around, yes he likes to miss behave, but there is a time and place for that. If parents set the boundaries this should not be an issue.

 

What we do for the dining room is bring things to occupy him so we can relax, a game boy, a book, a trip journal. With a little planning... He also knows to let women out of the elevator first, to hold doors for others, inside voice. He much preferrs HAL over RCI. He doesn't like their kids program as they are loud and crowded.

 

So please do not ban all children. Some are good kids (and I know I am biased) but it should be the parents that get banned.

 

But this thread is not about unruley children but a great thread from the Rev that I read every day wishing I was there.

[sapper1]

Sadly, there is almost no cruise line that will turn away families with kids. They are the future of every single cruise line.

 

There were lots of people who cruised at one time and didn't care for children. The cruise lines honored their wishes because they were plentiful and were keeping the ships full. They paid top dollar for their cruises at a time when cruises were far more expensive than they are today. Well, sadly those people today are dying off ... or they are no longer cruising because of various disabilities. If the cruise lines want to survive, they need to replace these passengers with younger ones. Those younger passengers all have kids. Either the kids sail too, or the parents don't ... it's as simple as that. If the cruise lines don't welcome families, believe me there are plenty of resort properties that will. The parents don't have to cruise.

 

So, every cruise line will not just allow children, but will welcome them with open arms. That is why you don't see these kids on the Eurodam being chastised in any way for their antics. No way is any lower level HAL employee ... waiter, cabin steward, cruise staff, etc., gonna put their job on the line to chastise one of the children. If the parent gets upset ... which well they might ... that HAL employee could find themselves being packed off the ship at the next port, out of a job.

 

No, the only person(s) who can handle this problem are high level officers ... the hotel manager, etc., and obviously they have declined to do so. Why? Because the parents of those little darlings may very well be dropping a bundle on the ship, and HAL doesn't want that interferred with. So they will just tell the waiters in the dining room to be extra careful for children underfoot. If they inadvertently cause one to be injured, it's their a**, plain and simple. A waiter, after all, is a very expendable commodity. The passenger dropping a bundle in the casino, on drinks, etc., is not.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

I think you are correct in your assessment of the trend in HAL's reasoning, however I think they should be taking measures to please both groups. Maybe if they strictly enforced the rules regarding the "adults only" pool and had a few adult designated areas that were also strictly enforced (including a dining area), then both the passengers with children and the older passengers who want a quiet, peaceful experience could coexist happily.

[BrianTom]

 

The parade of children-in-motion continued ...

 

Adele ... on the other hand ... has reasons for being extremely upset. Her toilet exploded again. Somebody downline from her (about where severa lfo the families with the little darlings are located) flushed some balloons into the system resulting in a blockage that, for the second time this cruise, left sewage on her bathroom floor. Ugh! That happened today.

 

I will take rocks on the elevator and a few pre teens bumping into me all day long over what Adele has experienced. That is totally unacceptable. Toilets should not explode and leave sewage on anyone's floor regardless of the situation. Did Adele get the balloons on her floor? I doubt it. It is easy for HAL to blame another guest for the mishap.

 

Vacu systems suck and do not push and while there may be balloons in the line her toilet should not explode. Something is wrong with their system. She should get restitution for this from HAL.

 

Also please post what room she had after the cruise so I can be assured of not getting that one when I travel on the Eurodam this fall. I would bet a $1000.00 that is a design flaw with the system and not a passenger flaw.

[Copper10-8]

Kids should not be allowed on HAL ships, let them take Disney or RCCL since I hate that line, also for what I have been reading from Rev Neal, the 'Euro'dam is a disaster including the service...

 

 

That's where you're wrong! The Eurodam is not a disaster and the Rev will tell you the same. The Eurodam is a brand spankin' new ship on her shakedown cruise. Under those circumstances, you're going to encounter some issues.

[BrianTom]

When was the last time you have heard of anyone in a regular hotel getting raw sewage on their room floor? I was at the Hilton in San Francisco and a pipe in the bathroom above sprung a small leak and flooded my dob kit (it was perfectly positioned below the drip). When I call to inform them of the leak they without hesitation upgraded me to a suite for my inconvenience. If I found raw sewage I would expect a free stay along with the suite.

[RevNeal]

Thoughts on St. Petersburg:

 

This is a lovely, busy, huge, incredibly congested and transformed city. I was last in the city when it was Leningrad in 1987, and over the last 21 years the place has changed tremendously. Many echos of it's Soviet-era past are visible, but the even more historic and impressive remains of Imperial Russia are more evident now than ever. We spent two days (an overnight stay) in the city, and enjoyed a private-arranged tour for a group of 6 (Scotty, Emily, Adele, Mary Ellen, Karl, and myself). Our guide was excellent and the range of things which we saw, and the pace at which we saw it all, was superb. We saw the equivalent of two and a half to three HAL tours each day ... far more than would have been possible by using the traditional HAL tours. I originally intended to detail our tours here at this point in time, however I'd rather save that for when I can illustrate it more fully with photos. And I DO have plenty of photos to post in my photo galleries and I'll give a run-down in my formal review of the sites we went to. So, I ask that everybody remain patient on the details of our touring and allow me to address other matters -- procedural matters -- that are present in touring Russia from a cruise ship.

 

Firstly, HAL tells you that unless you have a HAL arranged shore excursion, you must have a visa from the Russian government in order to go ashore. This isn't altogether true. Yes, one must have either a visa or a tour-arranged visa waver; however, if one has made prior connections with a local tour company, that local tour company will make those arrangements for you. In other words, you will not have to get a visa if you've made independent sore-excursion reservations. Part of that process includes being willing to research the options and the providers, find one that provides the kind of tour you want, and contacting them to make the arrangements. They will need your passport number and other personal details and will send you (via mail or e-mail) a disembarkation ticket that will include the information that the shore-side Russian immigration control officials will need to see in order to pass you. The procedure was a simple one, although it took actually going through it to discover precisely what it was that was expected.

 

As a result, I can truly say that doing your own tours with a local provider has many of the same basic advantages as the HAL shore excursions ... and several other advantages as well: (1) you see more and learn more due to the lower guide-to-person ratio, (2) there is less congestion on the tour and in getting in and out of the transport, (3) you get several perks like early entry to the Hermitage, etc., (4) you pay less per-hour, (5) you have more control over what you see, when you see it, etc. I would highly recommend doing something like ours when visiting a port like St. Petersburg, Russia.

 

Secondly, touring in St. Petersburg is much like touring in any European city; the vendors can be annoying (though "Nyet Spaceeba" works well and they will actually go away once you've said that), the prices are high (although the exchange rate is still very strongly in our favor in Russia and they DO still like and want dollars), they've got lots of the same junk in many of the same shopping stops, and bathrooms are not always "free." Take advantage of every meal-stop to use the potty, if at all possible, shop in the stores where the guide recommended it -- fake money won't be passed off on you there and the prices, while a little more expensive than the smaller tents and such, are very reasonable. Bring water ashore with you ... it's hard to find it and when you do you pay about $1.50 - $3.50 for a fairly small bottle. DO use the ATMs to get local currency. In Russia there are machines that will change US dollars into Russian Rubles, but the exchange rate via the ATM is better. Also, while dollars are negotiable (most vendors around tourist areas will take them), not all vendors will. Additionally, dollars will be harder to use once one gets off the tourist track and into areas where native russians do business. One can't use them or the subway and one really can't use them to buy food at non-tourist restaurants, etc. Also, DO use your credit card ... like the ATM, it provides a better currency exchange rate (often with no fees) and you're not left with change that becomes unintended souvenirs.

 

If anybody has other questions, I'd be happy to try to answer them, but please wait until I get home ... or go ahead and ask but be patient until I get to where I can answer them without spending and arm-and-a-leg.

 

A few photos:

 

Here I am in one of the obligatory photos from any Russian trip ... in front of Peter the Great on his horse along the banks of the Neva river. This hasn't changes since I saw it last. No .. wait ... yes it has. The construction cranes in the background are visible all over the city and reflect the economic boom going on here. They didn't have this kind of thing 21 years ago.

 



One of the Russian Thrones ... on display at the Hermitage.

 



Another Russian Throne ... this one is THE Imperial Throne in the Imperial Throne Room of the Hermitage ... though wether it's vacuum flush gets clogged I don't know.

[KenM]

Brian Tom: I must agree with you. Just because you are on a cruise ship, you should not accept poor service.

You are correct. If you were in a hotel, you would be upgraded immediately.

On a ship, I can understand if there are no other rooms available, BUT your cruise should be GRATIS- if you have sewage all over the place, especially twice. I would be IRATE....

The reason that they don't do it, is they really don't care........IF you don't book, somebody else will...

 

While I am at it- kids are everywhere- get use to it .. and kids do what kids do- they run, they laugh, they are loud...and they do pranks..

Where the hell did most of you grow up- in a convent or a monestary..

 

IF you see kids doing bad things, have the guts to walk up to the parents and say something........

Don't assume that they know what is going on......

[jhannah]

Having just spent 3 weeks in SPB, I can "amen" what Greg says. Good advice.

 

Looks like your weather was perfect, Greg. Glad you had a good tour of this beautiful city.

[RevNeal]

Thoughts on Helsinki and Stockholm:

 

Talk about a HUGE difference between St. Petersburg and Helsinki! WOW! As wild, busy, active, and congested as St. Petersburg was, Helsinki was so quiet as can be. Of course, were there on a Sunday, so that may have had something to do with it ... but, still. Here I took a basic HAL city highlights tour, which included the stop at the Rock Church, which I found to be ultra modern, reminiscent of my own church's sanctuary (which is also ultra modern and avant guard), and very pleasant. I prefer traditional buildings, but this was really interesting. I was wasted ... tired from Russia ... but it was an worthwhile "get off the ship and walk around" kind of tour.

 

We sailed to Stockholm, the next day, where I took a large and lengthy "Highlights of Stockholm" tour. I saw a lot of wonderful things, including the City Hall -- where they have the Nobel Prize winners banquets -- the Vasa ship exhibit (WOW!), the Old City walking tour, and the Imperial Palace ... where I got to see the King of Sweden. No, it wasn't an audience, we were just told by security (guys in suits with little headphones in one ear) to stand still as his majesty passed through the room. It happened so fast it took me a moment to realize what I was seeing. At any rate, I enjoyed the tour of Stockholm and wouldn't mind visiting the city again. I wouldn't want to live there ... the idea of paying 89% of my income in taxes to fund a socialist womb-to-the-tomb welfare state runs against my sensibilities. It was ironic. Our guide bemoaned the fact that their population is shrinking, with people moving out of the country or just not having any children, and she stated -- quite seriously and honestly, I'm sure -- that it was a mystery as to why the native Swedish population wasn't reproducing itself in at least replacement numbers. Only, it's not a mystery to me. No one wants to work their entire life and retain only 11% of their labors. True, they only pay a few hundred dollars a year in insurance, but that's because they pay 89% of their income in taxes. It's too expensive to live in such a state or to reproduce with more than 1 child in such a condition where one cannot pass on accumulated wealth to one's offspring due to the nominal confiscatory taxation. They are taxing themselves into oblivion. In short ... it's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. :)

 

At sea, today, I'm enjoying a nice, quiet day with little going on. I've tried to catch up in my post materials, and am also trying to catch up on sleep. I've been staying up way too late during the evening and then waking up way too early. I must get more sleep. Otherwise, I'm going to end this cruise exhausted.

 

Last night was a lot of fun. I enjoyed a quiet evening sitting in the Crows Nest with Ruth, Adele, Emily, and we were joined by Nathan. After a while Ruth and Nathan began singing songs together. I had my own personal floor show when they both leapt into "I Want a Hippopotamus For Christmas" and then finished off with "Let me Entertain You" in a somewhat sultry style. They were the center of attention and everybody seemed to enjoy it. I certainly did. It was a great evening.

 

I hope to have a few photos of Stockholm up tomorrow.

Also, tomorrow I hope to find the time to do some photos of the various lounges, etc., around the ship.

[ASIWISH]

Neal,

 

After gaining 10 pounds on my first 10-day cruise last Spring, I'm curious.... would that mean that someone on a 23-day cruise, like yourself, would be gaining 23 pounds?!?!?:eek:

 

Love your thread... as always!

 

Kevin

[mamaofami]

Good to hear from you, Greg. Your pictures are wonderfaul and I can't wait to see the rest. Hope the last few days of the cruise are fabulous. Rest up and do your posting when you get home.

[hulamoon]

I would also like to know what room the raw sewage spews from. Although I dream up upgrades, I'd rather not get one that way. :o

 

Adele, you deserve a free cruise in any room you want. Were you also the woman who got a black eye?

 

Thanks for keeping us updated on your vacation Greg, I would love to see those cities one day.

[RevNeal]

Further Thoughts on the Eurodam

 

After reading some of the remarks on this thread, and having some others sent to me via e-mail from other threads, I really feel like I need to express a few more thoughts on this ship.

 

Firstly, I have already shard my opinions on the Eurodam and her crew. After 20 days aboard her, my view point has shifted some but has not changed. I believe that, for the most part, the ship's interiors are lovely. Yes, there are some decor features for which I don't care, but by-and-large the ship is lovely. I wanted to say that, going out the gate, because the ships is absolutely NOT a disaster ... and certainly not in terms of its interior lay out and decor.

 

Secondly, on the outside she looks overly rectangular and box-like (think "container ship"), but otherwise she's an impressive vessel. She handles the seas well, though that's not saying a whole lot given that we've had mostly calm, lake-like seas here on the Baltic. Ruth isn't happy that we've not had rough seas, but I'm happy about it and I know Mary Ellen is too. Sometimes it's hard to even tell we're on the ocean!

 

Thirdly, the crew is working very hard to make things right. Yes, the crew is at "capacity" for this ship; however, observations of the stewards hard at work in the main dining room every evening tells me that the staffing distribution is wrong. In order to staff the specialty restaurants they have to pull berthing space for more staff, and that results in a reduction of the Indonesian stewards who are available for service in the Main Dining room. I feel very sorry for these stewards. They're always over worked and appear to be trying their best but just can't see it clear to being caught all the way up. On those nights when/where there are not a lot of people in the main dining room, service is much faster. It's when the place is packed that they service rates slow.

 

The Silk Den and the Tamerand are wonderful additions to the ship. Likewise, the Canaletto is very nice and continues to improve each time I've been there. The service, too, has improved. However, apart from the Silk Den there really isn't any more public space and yet there are over 200 more people aboard ship (and that's assuming no triple occupancies, as on this cruise with all the children you ever want (or don't want) to see! Adding more people but not adding significant public space is a recipe for a disaster.

 

Would I cruise on the Eurodam again? If the itinerary were right, or if it happened to be with a bunch of people with whom I want to cruise, then yes. I have no plans to book her right now, but I have been sufficiently won-over by her interior charms and the earnest desires of the staff to serve and serve well that I would have another "go" at her if the circumstances were right.

 

If I had known then what I know now, would I have still cruised aboard this ship, or would I have cancelled? I most definitely would have booked this cruise anyway and the thought of canceling never crossed my mind. Indeed, I cannot comprehend why someone would make noises about canceling a cruise based upon my reports from the 3-day and the first 10-day sailing. Inaugural sailings are always fraught with problems; I went into these cruises knowing that things might not turn out very well, and that there would be problems big and small. I would do it again, anyway. The ship is a great HAL ship, and with time the problems will be ironed out. She is most definitely NOT a Some issues can't be fixed by training, experience, or procedures ... those problems will stick with this ship until HAL changes their thinking on how many people to book aboard this vessel. I don't look for that to happen. :(

 

I will also sail the inaugural of the next Signature ship. It should be a lot of fun. I just hope it's from the States, and not from Europe.

[Susie51]

RevNeal, thank you for the wonderful review of your busy days in SPB, Helsinki, and Stockholm. Your pics are delightful and enhance your posts. I appreciate the time and money you spend providing us we detailed insight into your cruise.

[BrianTom]

this one is THE Imperial Throne in the Imperial Throne Room of the Hermitage ... though wether it's vacuum flush gets clogged I don't know.[/center]

 

Very funny RevNeal! I also would bet that NO kids were stuffing balloons down it either. Great Reports. It has kept me more entertained than I have expected.

[BrianTom]

Brian Tom:

 

While I am at it- kids are everywhere- get use to it .. and kids do what kids do- they run, they laugh, they are loud...and they do pranks..

Where the hell did most of you grow up- in a convent or a monestary..

 

IF you see kids doing bad things, have the guts to walk up to the parents and say something........

Don't assume that they know what is going on......

 

I agree with you. I must admit I was one of those kids that ran, laughed, was loud and played pranks. Probably worse. But I will tell you that if another adult walked up to my parents and said something, they might have defended me to them, but the message was not lost because my parents did not like to be embarrassed and I would have sure heard about it and curtailed my actions.

[editor@cruisecritic]

Hi, having Eurodam withdrawal (am in Helsinki for vacation and have seen the ship since I got off a couple of weeks ago in Copenhagen! was great!) and so am checking in to see how the cruise is progressing. RevNeal's written a fantastic blog and I've loved living through his experience.

 

Have read a couple of the most recent pages of posts re kids running amok and have to say -- that if I were cruising on Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Princess, P&O (some ships), Ocean Village, etc. the kid thing WOULDN'T BOTHER ME AT ALL. Emphasis on all caps mine.

 

But on Holland America -- it's wrong. It doesn't fit. It's appalling. These ships are simply not built, designed and operated for the family market. That of course doesn't stop Holland America from marketing them to families anyway -- but please, if you have young kids, do them -- and do other folks -- a favor and pick a cruise line that has appropriate kids facilities and a passenger base that is more reflective.

 

There are two stories we've written in the past, one by me (we don't have kids) and one written by a contributor with a 6 year old son about Holland America. Please read them -- and decide whether you want to cruise during kid-friendly times (with or without the facilities) on a line that's not really set up for them....

 

I'm a bit surprised that HAL is marketing itself as kid friendly in the Baltic. Mind you, there are ports in the Baltic that are GREAT for families (minus St. Petersburg, I'm thinking of Copenhagen, Stockholm and Helsinki, especially) but still...pick your ship (and there's plenty of choice).

 

Here are the links:

 

*Come Aboard: Eastern Caribbean (during spring holiday season) on HAL's Westerdam: http://www.cruisecritic.com/features/articles.cfm?ID=369

 

*Family with a young kid: http://www.cruisecritic.com/cruisestyles/articles.cfm?ID=618

 

The crew (as I believe I noted in the Westerdam piece, which for my husband and me -- we cruise A LOT -- ranks easily as the worst EVER so I think that's saying something) can't really do anything...they're powerless. The problem comes from the top and it's enough to say that the Westerdam cruise took place four years ago! And HAL still ignores the problem. So caveat emptor.

 

Carolyn

 

 

Carolyn Spencer Brown

Editor in Chief

Cruise Critic

 

 

I wouldn't say the dining room staff is inept. It may be that their hands are tied. When you have a "word" with a parent about their children, feelings can get ruffled, tempers can flare. Nobody likes to hear that their children are anything less than absolute little angles. "My Johnny isn't doing anything wrong! He's just being a normal rambunctious six year old!" I don't think the average staff or crew member would be allowed to get involved. This has to be handled from the top ... the Guest Relations Manager, Chief Purser, Hotel Manager, whoever. Sadly, that is not happening and for what reason I cannot fathom. What are they waiting for? Someone (maybe even one of the children) to get hurt?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thank you Greg for all your wonderful pictures and thoughts.

Really apprecaited you taking so much time to keep us all informed.

[editor@cruisecritic]

May I just add -- I married a Finn whose business is based in Helsinki and so we have a home here -- that Helsinki is delightful, but it's a town you sort of have to warm up to. It's not as -- and RevNeal captures this -- obviously intriguing as St. Petersburg (or for that matter Stockholm, London, Sydney, New York, LOL). I love it, but I have sort of grown to love it and have been fortunate to have more time to spend here than on the average cruise (which was the reason I first visited Helsinki; I didn't meet my husband until later).

 

Having spent a fair amount of "down time" here -- just want to say that Helsinki is really all about the water. Get out on the ferries or on your ship's boat trip through the islands. That's fabulous. While there are historic components, that's not the city's strength (remember, Finland has technically only existed as a country since 1917; before that it ping ponged between Russia and Sweden).

 

Beyond that….

 

On this trip (our home is located in the suburbs of Helsinki so we typically spend a fair amount of time in the country's most gorgeous countryside), I made a point to take the train into the city and honed in on the city's design district. Helsinki's an odd juxtaposition. Sure, you have the historic areas, the Uspenski Cathedral et al, but it's ultimately the modern stuff (modern being from the 1950s onward) that is actually more distinctive -- like RevNeal said, the Rock Church is pretty contemporary). One of the most interesting points made at the Contemporary Design Museum -- remember, this city spawned Marimekko, Alvar Aalto and other modernist designers -- is that what's really unique is that it balances between the Orthodox East and the European West.

 

Sort of like Turkey, with its one foot in Asia, one foot in Europe. But different.

 

I have made it a mission (since I got married five years ago, and, er, inherited this experience as my annual summer vacation) to try to learn as much as I can and I do -- but what I really love, I believe, holds true even for visitors with only a day to spare. Head for the Esplanade, experience the waterfront, have a coffee or something stronger at Strindberg Cafe, go to lunch at either Sasso (right by the harbor) or Toscanini (Italian), just beyond, or Fazer (for Finnish light fare) -- it's across from the famed Kamp Hotel. There's also the marketplace if you just want something to go.

 

If you like beer, take the ferry to Suommenlina and explore the one-time military base (there's a brew pub right at the ferry dock, couldn't be more tantalizing). If you really want history, take the ship's tour to Porvoo.

 

That's what I'd do. Actually, that's what I've done, LOL.

 

We live fairly near to a town called Jarvenpaa -- it was the country home of the famed composer Sibelius, one of Finland's most famous artists. If you, like me, enjoy gorgeous country views, take that one -- there's an Aalto-designed home nearby that's part of the trip. Oddly enough, I've driven by but never done the tour. Have to rope my husband in on that one ☺

 

 

Carolyn

 

 

Thoughts on Helsinki and Stockholm:

 

Talk about a HUGE difference between St. Petersburg and Helsinki! WOW! As wild, busy, active, and congested as St. Petersburg was, Helsinki was so quiet as can be. Of course, were there on a Sunday, so that may have had something to do with it ... but, still. Here I took a basic HAL city highlights tour, which included the stop at the Rock Church, which I found to be ultra modern, reminiscent of my own church's sanctuary (which is also ultra modern and avant guard), and very pleasant. I prefer traditional buildings, but this was really interesting. I was wasted ... tired from Russia ... but it was an worthwhile "get off the ship and walk around" kind of tour.

 

We sailed to Stockholm, the next day, where I took a large and lengthy "Highlights of Stockholm" tour. I saw a lot of wonderful things, including the City Hall -- where they have the Nobel Prize winners banquets -- the Vasa ship exhibit (WOW!), the Old City walking tour, and the Imperial Palace ... where I got to see the King of Sweden. No, it wasn't an audience, we were just told by security (guys in suits with little headphones in one ear) to stand still as his majesty passed through the room. It happened so fast it took me a moment to realize what I was seeing. At any rate, I enjoyed the tour of Stockholm and wouldn't mind visiting the city again. I wouldn't want to live there ... the idea of paying 89% of my income in taxes to fund a socialist womb-to-the-tomb welfare state runs against my sensibilities. It was ironic. Our guide bemoaned the fact that their population is shrinking, with people moving out of the country or just not having any children, and she stated -- quite seriously and honestly, I'm sure -- that it was a mystery as to why the native Swedish population wasn't reproducing itself in at least replacement numbers. Only, it's not a mystery to me. No one wants to work their entire life and retain only 11% of their labors. True, they only pay a few hundred dollars a year in insurance, but that's because they pay 89% of their income in taxes. It's too expensive to live in such a state or to reproduce with more than 1 child in such a condition where one cannot pass on accumulated wealth to one's offspring due to the nominal confiscatory taxation. They are taxing themselves into oblivion. In short ... it's a nice place to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there. :)

 

At sea, today, I'm enjoying a nice, quiet day with little going on. I've tried to catch up in my post materials, and am also trying to catch up on sleep. I've been staying up way too late during the evening and then waking up way too early. I must get more sleep. Otherwise, I'm going to end this cruise exhausted.

 

Last night was a lot of fun. I enjoyed a quiet evening sitting in the Crows Nest with Ruth, Adele, Emily, and we were joined by Nathan. After a while Ruth and Nathan began singing songs together. I had my own personal floor show when they both leapt into "I Want a Hippopotamus For Christmas" and then finished off with "Let me Entertain You" in a somewhat sultry style. They were the center of attention and everybody seemed to enjoy it. I certainly did. It was a great evening.

 

I hope to have a few photos of Stockholm up tomorrow.

Also, tomorrow I hope to find the time to do some photos of the various lounges, etc., around the ship.

[Travelrd]

Just want to correct the Swedish tax information......

 

Denmark Replaces Sweden as Top Tax Burden Country

2008-03-11 22:14:16 Xinhua

 

Denmark has replaced Sweden as the country with the highest tax burden in the world, the Danish newspaper Boersen reported Tuesday.

 

Based on figures taken from the tax authorities in both countries, Danes have a tax burden of 48.4 percent, compared with 47.8 percent for Swedes, the report said.

 

Sweden's center-right government has introduced a series of tax breaks since taking office in October 2006.

 

Danish Taxation Minister Kristian Jensen told the newspaper that recent tax cuts in Sweden also affected Danes. He projected that employment taxes in Denmark would be lower by 2011, without elaborating on the overall tax burden.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Carolyn, I envy anyone who has the opportunity to get to know a country so well by having a home there, or spending considerable time there. I've had a friend since childhood whose family were born in Finland so it's always fascinated me.

 

Greg, thank you once again for all your reports and observations aboard ship. As I posted on another thread, I know the last thing you would ever want is someone to even consider cancelling a cruise based on anyone's review alone. When deciding on a cruise, it's helpful to read other people's opinions, but that must be weighed with what we know we personally are looking for in a cruise experience.

 

I can't believe your journey is finally coming to an end. It seems like a long time even from here. I hope you enjoy your last days on the Eurodam and I wish you a peaceful and safe journey home:) .

[Love Cruises]

I agree totally with you that it is the parents that are at fault with letting their children run "wild". What a disgrace! Ours travelled with us all the time and we always kept a rein on him.

 

Then there is the other side of the coin where the children are very well behaved. A family we met from Toronto once on the NOORDAM were traveling with their 2 children (girl - 13 and a boy -10). When introduced by the parents to their boy, I told the child to call me by my first name "Barbara". He did call me that the 1st time but each time after that when I would run into him he would call me "Miss Barbara". What a little gentleman.

 

It definitely comes down to the upbringing. Probably, if you take a look at the parents of these children, they usually are very loud and obnoxious themselves. How can the children learn?

[Travalerie]

But on Holland America -- it's wrong. It doesn't fit. It's appalling. These ships are simply not built, designed and operated for the family market. That of course doesn't stop Holland America from marketing them to families anyway -- but please, if you have young kids, do them -- and do other folks -- a favor and pick a cruise line that has appropriate kids facilities and a passenger base that is more reflective.

 

 

Carolyn

 

 

Carolyn Spencer Brown

Editor in Chief

Cruise Critic

I think your suggestion is very shall I say, well I am not sure what to say...As long as I am taking care of my kids, I don't see why I should not enjoy something I want to do. I don't need a lot of bells and whistles to take care of my kids. Maybe it will change as they get older, but I want to raise kids that are self sufficient and that can navigate in any environment. I am not doing them a favor if I don't teach them that they have to adjust and be creative in a different situation. Its not a favor if all I do is give them a ton of stimulation and let them have at it. If there are no rules against it I do not see the problem. This is reverse ageism to me. Can you say that old folks should not go on Disney or one of the big freedom class ships because they are too old to enjoy it?? If I starting posting threads about how terrible it is to have so many older, ornery people on a ship I would get slammed. I would never say that and don't feel that way, but I think you see my point. I am new to CC and maybe this has been said and this argument repeats itself every 3 months and I just have to get used to it.