Navy ship fire caused by smoking

[neverpar]

[quote name='gillianrose'][B]The 30% figure is wrong. 20% (at most, since it keeps dropping) of adults in the U.S. still smoke.[/B]
The cruise lines that have the least restricted smoking are the ones losing out to the lines that more restrictive now and are instituting smoking bans.

You will notice this in the coming year as the old bookings that people made on the now-smokier-by-comparison ships where they already held prime cabins, had air and hotel packages, made friends on Cruise Critic roll calls, etc. give way to the non-smokers among them moving to the many lines that are more restrictive, especially lines which restrict balcony and cabin smoke.

We cancelled several cruises costing over $20,000 (in total) in order to wait for the new smoking ban restrictions to be enacted.[/QUOTE]

And another problem is.......you think that only Americans cruise? There are many people from all over the world that smoke, so it's not fair to just include the US in your analysis...

[gillianrose]

[quote name='neverpar']And another problem is.......you think that only Americans cruise? There are many people from all over the world that smoke, so it's not fair to just include the US in your analysis...[/QUOTE]

As you will notice, I quoted someone who referred to figures from the U.S.

I wanted to be sure that the figure was accurate.

I know that other nations cruise, but Americans and their English-speaking counterparts still make up the vast majority of cruisers and the vast majority of ALL of these groups DO NOT SMOKE.

[neverpar]

[quote name='gillianrose']As you will notice, I quoted someone who referred to figures from the U.S.

I wanted to be sure that the figure was accurate.

I know that other nations cruise, but Americans and their English-speaking counterparts still make up the vast majority of cruisers and the vast majority of ALL of these groups DO NOT SMOKE.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/neverpar55/beatingadeadhorse-1.jpg[/IMG]

[edgew]

A couple of random thoughts from a smoker who hasn’t had a smoke recently (10 years):
In Las Vegas we’ve had several casinos proudly and loudly proclaim going non-smoking, with LOTS of publicity. They don’t advertize nearly so well when all of these casinos went back to allowing smoking. Any guesses as to why? I find it interesting to observe the little old ladies in the motorized wheelchairs at the slot machines who turn off their oxygen for a few minutes so they can have a smoke.
Someone earlier was mentioning that the smokers were from a ‘lower socioeconomic strata’, a violent offense against Political Correctness! Well, I’ll come back with another filter-factor. I prefer the Holland American line, and their cruisers are usually somewhat older than some of the other lines. So if your average age is 60 or so, most of the active smokers have dies off already!

[gin_runner]

Quitting smoking has gotta be brutal, I'm sure. All addictions are.

but except those that are 70 years or older, I really have never understood what made people take up smoking, given that since about 1960 there has been mountains of evidence about what smoking does to you. I mean, knowing all that, and still voluntarily taking it up? Not very intelligent. Thus, it's hard for me to sympathize with all but the oldest people who took it up at a time when the risks were not realized (in fact, some ciggie companies in the 40's and 50's claimed smoking was healthy and had doctors to back it up!).

This is why they've never been able to do testing on animals - you can't get a dumb animal to smoke.

[isujim]

[quote name='gillianrose']The 30% figure is wrong. 20% (at most, since it keeps dropping) of adults in the U.S. still smoke.

The cruise lines that have the least restricted smoking are the ones losing out to the lines that more restrictive now and are instituting smoking bans.

You will notice this in the coming year as the old bookings that people made on the now-smokier-by-comparison ships where they already held prime cabins, had air and hotel packages, made friends on Cruise Critic roll calls, etc. give way to the non-smokers among them moving to the many lines that are more restrictive, especially lines which restrict balcony and cabin smoke.

We cancelled several cruises costing over $20,000 (in total) in order to wait for the new smoking ban restrictions to be enacted.[/quote]

It doesn't matter if the 30% is wrong or not.........you must have missed my other post that said don't get hung up on statistics:rolleyes: ......you must have missed the other post that said I'm on your side:rolleyes: .........you must have missed the other post that said this is one of those threads that feeds on EMOTION.:)

You just can't have a tipping, jeans in dining room or smoking thread without the emotional passions that feeds the thread.......and after being on cruise critic for so long........I KNOW BETTER than to get involved and hung up in these types of threads............

You guys move forward with your stats..........:p

[isujim]

[quote name='neverpar']OMG!!! Hasn't this been beat to death many times over....


[IMG]http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/neverpar55/beatingadeadhorse.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t213/neverpar55/beatingadeadhorse-1.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

YES:D :D

[navybankerteacher]

[quote name='Nylsor'][I][quote name='navybankerteacher']If you've been to France or Italy recently you would know how prevalent smoking still is. It seems that Europeans generally have been much slower to implement smoking bans, education campaigns, etc. With the much stronger Euro vs. the US $, the lines will not want to alienate a fairly large segment of their potential market. [/quote][/I][quote name='navybankerteacher']


I don't know when you were last in Europe but the following countries have total smoking bans - that means NO SMOKING anywhere - and I mean anywhere apart from in your own vehicle (as long as it's not a vehicle used for the purpose of work) your own home, or in the open air.
- all of the UK
- Ireland
- France
- Spain (including the Balearic Islands)
- Italy
Smoking in the UK is now about as popular as drink driving. The UK Government recently released stats that said that the percentage of smokers in the adult population is 20% - down from 70% in the 1970s.
Ros[/quote]

In Toulouse and through much of Gascony in September and in Rome and Venice in October, 2007 sidewalk cafes and restaurants were filled with smokers -- you could not be anywhere without smelling smoke. There may be rules, but there are still smokers.

[abcten]

[quote=G'ma;15656937]Your statistics don't take into account those who have stopped BUYING tobacco, but rather, BUM cigarettes from their friends and co-workers.

And, your stats are wrong, percentage-wise, too - AND only targets adult smokers. If you want the real statistics, here is a link from Gallup with results of a recent Princeton study. If you're going to throw out statistics, make sure your facts are correct.....

[URL]http://www.gallup.com/poll/109048/US-Smoking-Rate-Still-Coming-Down.aspx[/URL][/quote]

LOL. Gallup. That is a poll. Have you ever heard that polls are accurate plus or minus X percent? Here is the link I mentioned showing the % of adult smokers is now below 20%, quote,

"Another factor is the drop in the number of adult smokers: It has now inched below 20 percent, according to 2007 CDC data."

Here is the link:

[URL]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_he_me/med_secondhand_smoke[/URL]

Your comments really blew up in your face didn't they?

[abcten]

[quote name='isujim']

You just can't have a tipping, jeans in dining room or smoking thread without the emotional passions that feeds the thread[/quote]

There is a huge difference in the topics you mention. How another person tips or whether they wear jeans in the dining room does not cause death and disease to other innocent vicitms. Second hand smoke due to smokers does cause death and disease to other innocent victims. I'd say death and disease caused by others is something to be understandably quite emotional and compassionate about.

[smeyer418]

[quote name='abcten']There is a huge difference in the topics you mention. How another person tips or whether they wear jeans in the dining room does not cause death and disease to other innocent vicitms. Second hand smoke due to smokers does cause death and disease to other innocent victims. I'd say death and disease caused by others is something to be understandably quite emotional and compassionate about.[/quote]

There have been at least two reported deaths because of tipping issues and jeans.

The death because of the jeans was caused because someone so shocked at seeing someone wear jeans on formal night that they swallowed their own tongue(Celebrity June 20 2004) and one caused by a crewman killing a person on the QM 2 who refused to tip because he told the crewperson that he wasn't going to tip because they showed titanic on the Tele...(May 2, 2002)....

[snoodel]

[quote name='abcten']There is a huge difference in the topics you mention. How another person tips or whether they wear jeans in the dining room does not cause death and disease to other innocent vicitms. Second hand smoke due to smokers does cause death and disease to other innocent victims. I'd say death and disease caused by others is something to be understandably quite emotional and compassionate about.[/quote]

No one said anything about it being Different. They said you cant bring up these topics without heated debate..
But thanks for the sermon. Now it is time for my smoke break...

[isujim]

[quote name='abcten']There is a huge difference in the topics you mention. How another person tips or whether they wear jeans in the dining room does not cause death and disease to other innocent vicitms. Second hand smoke due to smokers does cause death and disease to other innocent victims. I'd say death and disease caused by others is something to be understandably quite emotional and compassionate about.[/quote]

Different.........absolutely..........but all emotional just the same, depending on one's passion:rolleyes:

The problem with this and other cruise critic topics is that people respond based on a written word without really knowing the feelings one may or may not have on the inside........

As I said........Emotion,emotion, emotion...........

I admire and respect your passion..........

I will be watching and reading this thread.........and wish all of you happy sailing.

[G'ma]

[quote name='abcten']LOL. Gallup. That is a poll. Have you ever heard that polls are accurate plus or minus X percent? Here is the link I mentioned showing the % of adult smokers is now below 20%, quote,

"Another factor is the drop in the number of adult smokers: It has now inched below 20 percent, according to 2007 CDC data."

Here is the link:

[URL]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080710/ap_on_he_me/med_secondhand_smoke[/URL]

Your comments really blew up in your face didn't they?[/quote]

All polls are skewed. It all depends upon how the question is asked.

The fact is, smoking is a legal activity and it will continue until/unless there is a total ban on growing and selling. Then, it will become an illegal substance subject to the same consequences as using and abusing current drugs.

Those who are rabid anti-smoking are certainly entitled to their opinion and have the right to avoid smoking and smokers at all costs.......but they don't.

They hang out where smokers go, cruise on ships where smoking is permitted, go places where smoking is allowed - and then complain about it. They also make every effort to put THEIR opinions into effect by wanting to deny others from enjoying tobacco if they wish.

There are many, many things in our daily lives that will kill ya; 70,000 people a year die as the result of pollution, 190,000 die each year due to hospital error, thousands are dead each year due to drunk drivers and driving. Life is full of risk. It is to each person to avoid those risks... So, if smoking bothers you, stay away from it. If you chose to be around smokers, then zipper your lip.

Non-smoker here, by the way.

BTW, your very last remark was uncalled for.

[G'ma]

[quote name='bakechef']Well that wasn't my intent at all, I was answering a question. Your comment was very rude, but if it makes you feel better to act that way, then be my guest.

MAC[/quote]

I don't "act", I mean it. There is a pseudo superiority that is prevalent in some of the posts here that smacks of ignorance and intolerance....neither of which are admirable traits and defy social standards.

There are no classes in our country. We are all equal here. How much money a person makes or has is totally irrelevant as far as freedom of choice is concerned. One person may smoke, another may enjoy fine wine or liquor, another may have to have the latest gadget or newest car or biggest home or most children. It is all the same. It is a classless society..... Remarks made to the contrary are simply idiotic.

[abcten]

It's surprising that some can't accept the fact that there is an inverse relationship between smoking and education level as well as between smoking and income level. I guess some people just can't handle the truth. A pity. Here is another article that concludes in part,

[B][COLOR=#cc0000]Smoking[/COLOR][/B] was more common among those with lower education and [B][COLOR=#cc0000][COLOR=#cc0000]income[/COLOR][/COLOR][/B].

[URL]http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/15/3/262[/URL]

[alphakitty]

[quote name='abcten']It's surprising that some can't accept the fact that there is an inverse relationship between smoking and education level as well as between smoking and income level. I guess some people just can't handle the truth. A pity. Here is another article that concludes in part,

[B][COLOR=#cc0000]Smoking[/COLOR][/B] was more common among those with lower education and [B][COLOR=#cc0000][COLOR=#cc0000]income[/COLOR][/COLOR][/B].

[URL]http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/15/3/262[/URL][/QUOTE]

Ok...but what difference does it make? Sheesh.....I am a college educated, upper income smoker...but who cares? I smoke, most don't anymore....what difference does the income of a person make to anyone having the smoking debate? The truth? Who cares!

[neverpar]

[quote name='abcten']It's surprising that some can't accept the fact that there is an inverse relationship between smoking and education level as well as between smoking and income level. I guess some people just can't handle the truth. A pity. Here is another article that concludes in part,

[B][COLOR=#cc0000]Smoking[/COLOR][/B] was more common among those with lower education and [B][COLOR=#cc0000][COLOR=#cc0000]income[/COLOR][/COLOR][/B].

[URL]http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/15/3/262[/URL][/QUOTE]

[quote name='alphakitty']Ok...but what difference does it make? Sheesh.....I am a college educated, upper income smoker...but who cares? I smoke, most don't anymore....what difference does the income of a person make to anyone having the smoking debate? The truth? Who cares![/QUOTE]


Alphakitty....I agree with you it doesn't make a darn bit of difference.......but some people just can't seem to get that through their thick skull..people can spout polls, statistics, articles...whatever they want...but the fact is people smoke, it's legal, and if non-smokers continue to vacation or whatever where smoking is allowed...then they should learn to keep their traps shut and quit complaining. When IT'S ILLEGAL...then you can complain.

[navybankerteacher]

[quote name='neverpar']Alphakitty....I agree with you it doesn't make a darn bit of difference.......but some people just can't seem to get that through their thick skull..people can spout polls, statistics, articles...whatever they want...but the fact is people smoke, it's legal, and if non-smokers continue to vacation or whatever where smoking is allowed...then they should learn to keep their traps shut and quit complaining. When IT'S ILLEGAL...then you can complain.[/quote]

Of course people should have the choice -- cruise lines elect to maximize their incomes by trying to attract both smokers and non-smokers. Hopefully they can maintain friendly areas for both groups. As long as smokers respect no smoking areas, both groups can be accomodated. If it ever happens that casinos become less profitable because non-smokers avoid them, then it will be up to the lines to react - either ban smoking altogether or create effective smoke-free areas - possibly a second casino on larger ships is an option. Getting into socio-economic arguments is surely not the point of these boards.

[neverpar]

[quote name='navybankerteacher']Of course people should have the choice -- cruise lines elect to maximize their incomes by trying to attract both smokers and non-smokers. Hopefully they can maintain friendly areas for both groups. [B]As long as smokers respect no smoking areas, both groups can be accomodated.[/B] If it ever happens that casinos become less profitable because non-smokers avoid them, then it will be up to the lines to react - either ban smoking altogether or create effective smoke-free areas - possibly a second casino on larger ships is an option. Getting into socio-economic arguments is surely not the point of these boards.[/QUOTE]


And the same goes with non-smokers.........don't come into a smoking area and act like a fool waving your hands and fake coughing....

[bakechef]

[QUOTE=G'ma;15695977]I don't "act", I mean it. There is a pseudo superiority that is prevalent in some of the posts here that smacks of ignorance and intolerance....neither of which are admirable traits and defy social standards.

There are no classes in our country. We are all equal here. How much money a person makes or has is totally irrelevant as far as freedom of choice is concerned. One person may smoke, another may enjoy fine wine or liquor, another may have to have the latest gadget or newest car or biggest home or most children. It is all the same. It is a classless society..... Remarks made to the contrary are simply idiotic.[/QUOTE]

I am not sure where you get the idea that I thought that I was better or in a higher class than this person, that is all in your head. Actually this person and I are in the same job level, I don't know what her hourly wage is, but I can bet it is pretty close to mine.

I just get tired of this type of co-worker whining about their financial struggles while spending huge amounts of money on cigarettes, beer, and soda. It would be the same as if I complained about being broke all the time, while going on a cruise every year.

I'm not sure if you find being rude a charming trait or not, but I don't, and I am sure not many others do either. Find someone else to harass, I would rather deal with someone with class and social grace, two things that you seem to lack.

MAC

[tip]

[quote name='neverpar']Alphakitty....I agree with you it doesn't make a darn bit of difference.......but some people just can't seem to get that through their thick skull..people can spout polls, statistics, articles...whatever they want...but the fact is people smoke, it's legal, and if non-smokers continue to vacation or whatever where smoking is allowed...then they should learn to keep their traps shut and quit complaining. When IT'S ILLEGAL...then you can complain.[/quote]

I choose not to go into smoking areas on the ships. BUT I have the right to enjoy my balcony (which I have paid big bucks for) without having to breathe second hand smoke from someone next door.

It is not illegal to [B]fart[/B] on my balcony, but I would never expose the guy next door to me to it!

It is not illegal to [B]burp[/B] and [B]belch[/B] on my balcony, but I would never expose the guy next door to it!

It is not illegal to be [B]loud [/B]and [B]obnoxious[/B] on my balcony, but I would never do that to the guy next door!

It is not illegal to [B]play country and western music or opera [/B]on my balcony, but I wouldn't think of doing it because it would be socially unacceptable to do so.

And no I won't keep my trap shut when folks are impinging on the air that I breathe!

[neverpar]

[quote name='tip']I choose not to go into smoking areas on the ships. [B]BUT I have the right to enjoy my balcony (which I have paid big bucks for) without having to breathe second hand smoke from someone next door.[/B]
It is not illegal to [B]fart[/B] on my balcony, but I would never expose the guy next door to me to it!

It is not illegal to [B]burp[/B] and [B]belch[/B] on my balcony, but I would never expose the guy next door to it!

It is not illegal to be [B]loud [/B]and [B]obnoxious[/B] on my balcony, but I would never do that to the guy next door!

It is not illegal to [B]play country and western music or opera [/B]on my balcony, but I wouldn't think of doing it because it would be socially unacceptable to do so.

And no I won't keep my trap shut when folks are impinging on the air that I breathe![/QUOTE]


Well then you have a crappy TA if you're paying "Big Bucks" for a balcony...:rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

[B]I get it.

Those who are NOT doing the offensive activity that bothers others should go to a cruise line where that legal but offensive activity is not permitted. Those who bother others are well within their rights, of course, and can blithely tell us to 'get lost'.

AND we have to ask permission to complain. :eek:

Do I understand?
What we non-smokers have to do (those who are bothered by smoke) is to make our wishes LOUDLY known by the cruise lines. That we (the VAST majority) do not wish to be subjected to the poisons of second hand smoke. The louder we speak, the more of us who speak, the sooner we will not be shunted off to 'other' cruise lines and can enjoy our verandas, all indoor and outdoor spaces without the smell and discomfort of smoke.

Cruise lines....... Please listen, please hear us, we shall Roar!
[/B]

[neverpar]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B]I get it.

Those who are NOT doing the offensive activity that bothers others should go to a cruise line where that legal but offensive activity is not permitted. Those who bother others are well within their rights, of course, and can blithely tell us to 'get lost'.

AND we have to ask permission to complain. :eek:

Do I understand?
What we non-smokers have to do (those who are bothered by smoke) is to make our wishes LOUDLY known by the cruise lines. That we (the VAST majority) do not wish to be subjected to the poisons of second hand smoke. The louder we speak, the more of us who speak, the sooner we will not be shunted off to 'other' cruise lines and can enjoy our verandas, all indoor and outdoor spaces without the smell and discomfort of smoke.

Cruise lines....... Please listen, please hear us, we shall Roar!
[/B][/QUOTE]

hhmmm that sounds right......and I'm sure that the cruise lines will listen to you while you rant and rave [IMG]http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Unhappy/unhappy-057.gif[/IMG] ...unless you pull yourself together and ask or complain nicely...but it doesn't seem like that will happen! [IMG]http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Unhappy/mad-047.gif[/IMG]