Travelers at Risk

[Snow Road Cruisers]

Follow Celebrity Cruisers I seek you help,

 

First a fast background, my wife and I have taken over 20 cruises with Celebrity, being under the retirement age we attempt two cruisers a year, since the blessed event of becoming empty nesters occurred. We have had great trips and some not so great, 50 foot waves, hurricanes, missed ports, kidnapped on a ship scheduled shore excursion and several Clorox trips; but we love to cruise.

 

This past April on Mercury, traveling from California to Oregon, my first ever spa treatment was a disaster, the bed collapsed (a cotter pin on the bed was not inserted) and I sustained injuries. While we were at sea they arranged for my hospital treatments on port days and promised to make things right. I told them I just wanted them to pick up the medical cost, later I asked for the trip cost to be reimbursed also. My injuries, are fixed, my right arm usage has returned, my broken tooth was replace and except for the MRI showing disk damage, I have recovered.

 

On the ship the crew could not have been any nicer to my wife and I, flowers, calls, candy, etc, they admitted it was faulty training and retrained the crew and showed us the prevention plan. The promise was made to that as soon as we returned home all my completed forms, medical records and information would be sent to me. Now four months latter I have had to pay all the medical bills, and had to hire an attorney, by the hour, only to learn Celebrity and the Spa vendor will not pay penny one. If I sue them (we have never sued anyone) it will cost me thousands of dollars (my claim is not that big) with no guarantee of winning so I am currently only reviewing my options. Now comes my dilemma; a TV producer wants to do a “ratings piece” on how passenger cruise lines treat passengers when they become injured, how consumer protection is nil for every passenger and how the laws protect the ship owners; my story would be the central story – Travelers at Risk. I have mixed feelings, as these types of stories frighten the public and would hurt my favorite vacation experience. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

[dkjretired]

Follow Celebrity Cruisers I seek you help,

 

First a fast background, my wife and I have taken over 20 cruises with Celebrity, being under the retirement age we attempt two cruisers a year, since the blessed event of becoming empty nesters occurred. We have had great trips and some not so great, 50 foot waves, hurricanes, missed ports, kidnapped on a ship scheduled shore excursion and several Clorox trips; but we love to cruise.

 

This past April on Mercury, traveling from California to Oregon, my first ever spa treatment was a disaster, the bed collapsed (a cotter pin on the bed was not inserted) and I sustained injuries. While we were at sea they arranged for my hospital treatments on port days and promised to make things right. I told them I just wanted them to pick up the medical cost, later I asked for the trip cost to be reimbursed also. My injuries, are fixed, my right arm usage has returned, my broken tooth was replace and except for the MRI showing disk damage, I have recovered.

 

On the ship the crew could not have been any nicer to my wife and I, flowers, calls, candy, etc, they admitted it was faulty training and retrained the crew and showed us the prevention plan. The promise was made to that as soon as we returned home all my completed forms, medical records and information would be sent to me. Now four months latter I have had to pay all the medical bills, and had to hire an attorney, by the hour, only to learn Celebrity and the Spa vendor will not pay penny one. If I sue them (we have never sued anyone) it will cost me thousands of dollars (my claim is not that big) with no guarantee of winning so I am currently only reviewing my options. Now comes my dilemma; a TV producer wants to do a “ratings piece” on how passenger cruise lines treat passengers when they become injured, how consumer protection is nil for every passenger and how the laws protect the ship owners; my story would be the central story – Travelers at Risk. I have mixed feelings, as these types of stories frighten the public and would hurt my favorite vacation experience. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

 

I have had numerous dealings with the press while I was working and I would just caution you to be careful. Often, these types of stories become "hit pieces" and with editing, etc, your opinions can be distorted. I would just let your lawyer handle the matter. Also, did you take trip insurance which would cover many of the costs.

[ISABELLA]

"only to learn Celebrity and the Spa vendor will not pay penny one."

 

What is the reason X giving you for not paying your medical bills?

[wolfganghowell]

Yikes.

 

The first thing I thought of is that cruiselines are like casinos - they can ban anyone they please for any reason. So if you did the piece, I think your cruising days might be limited because it is possible you would find yourself on a ban list.

 

Without knowing all the ins and outs, it seems like you have enough of a case for a lawyer to take this on contingency since unless there is something strange with your story, it appears to be a slam dunk that they should pay your medical expenses. You did not mention if you have medical insurance but I would assume after a deductible, your medical costs were covered anyway. Did you have trip insurance? No - you're not at fault if you didn't have trip insurance, I know some people follow that line of thought. It just seems like it too would be helpful in this instance. Finally, I know that 4 months can seem like a LONG time but having been through the "joy" of having some major medical in the family this year - it can take even longer for the insurance company, hospital, etc to kick in. I don't understand though - how the spa provider (in this case, Elemis) is not taking responsibility.

 

Bottom line, I think it is too early to go on a show like that. It would be one thing if those shows gave balanced information but they don't. I would prefer to attempt to resolve it with X, with or without lawyers if needed. But not with the media. Just my two cents.

[woodofpine]

For one, a maritime injury attorney worth his salt should have admonished you to refrain from discussing your claim with others. That includes CC, TV, etc. except under the attorney's direction.

 

If the attorney didn't do this - get a new attorney. Furthermore, the attorneys and firms that specialize in these claims (and there are specialists) typically charge on a contingent fee basis - not hourly; they earn a percentage of the recovery.

 

Based on what you've described, you've suffered a reasonably significant (not catastrophic) injury. If you've suffered disc damage - you've not fully recovered and probably won't - although disc conditions can be degenerative so your condition needs to be fully evaluated professionally from a tort liability standpoint.

 

Your communication on CC can be readily used against you in court, and you can believe that line defense counsel will 'twist' anything said here (including this post) in anyway possible to make you appear to be a liar, a malingerer, etc. - if that's what the 'job' calls for (and that's what the job calls for from defense standpoint).

 

Your affinity for cruising and the line in question will be manipulated - if the job calls for it - too. The lines are not 'soft touch' nice guys when claims arise that involve significant check writing. X as well as its competitors have a history of vigorously defending claims when the situation calls for it.

 

You appear to be creating a situation 'that calls for it'. The best suggestion is to google cruise line plaintiffs and obtain an attorney specialist in the venue of the cruise lines principal office (where the contract of carriage stipulates venue). I think X is Miami (?) These attorneys and the cruiseline's in house and outside counsel know each other. If you're claim is reasonbly minor then your attorney should be able to make a reasonably quick efficient presentation of it, and both sides will reach a fair settlement. If the claim is more substantial then the process become more substantial.

 

Stop flubbing round on CC, get competent legal expertise (not you local real estate lawyer etc.) and proceed under the direction of an experienced professional.

[commodoredave]

I recommend you write to the Ombudsman section of Conde Nast Traveler magazine. They will professionaly approach X, relay your issue, and get both sides of the story. If they feel X has not behaved properly, they will put pressure on them to do so. They will also write about the issue in the Ombudsman section of the magazine. They have massive circulation, lots of influence, and a reputation for handling these types of issues with great professionalism and success. Check it out.

[Cruisenouvelle]

I agree w/ woodofpine...the media can conveniently omit whole sections of interviews, etc. If you have a good attorney he/she should have advised you not to discuss your situation.

I will say I hope you reach a successful resolution - and good luck!

[Sky Sweet]

Follow Celebrity Cruisers I seek you help,

 

First a fast background, my wife and I have taken over 20 cruises with Celebrity, being under the retirement age we attempt two cruisers a year, since the blessed event of becoming empty nesters occurred. We have had great trips and some not so great, 50 foot waves, hurricanes, missed ports, kidnapped on a ship scheduled shore excursion and several Clorox trips; but we love to cruise.

 

This past April on Mercury, traveling from California to Oregon, my first ever spa treatment was a disaster, the bed collapsed (a cotter pin on the bed was not inserted) and I sustained injuries. While we were at sea they arranged for my hospital treatments on port days and promised to make things right. I told them I just wanted them to pick up the medical cost, later I asked for the trip cost to be reimbursed also. My injuries, are fixed, my right arm usage has returned, my broken tooth was replace and except for the MRI showing disk damage, I have recovered.

 

On the ship the crew could not have been any nicer to my wife and I, flowers, calls, candy, etc, they admitted it was faulty training and retrained the crew and showed us the prevention plan. The promise was made to that as soon as we returned home all my completed forms, medical records and information would be sent to me. Now four months latter I have had to pay all the medical bills, and had to hire an attorney, by the hour, only to learn Celebrity and the Spa vendor will not pay penny one. If I sue them (we have never sued anyone) it will cost me thousands of dollars (my claim is not that big) with no guarantee of winning so I am currently only reviewing my options. Now comes my dilemma; a TV producer wants to do a “ratings piece” on how passenger cruise lines treat passengers when they become injured, how consumer protection is nil for every passenger and how the laws protect the ship owners; my story would be the central story – Travelers at Risk. I have mixed feelings, as these types of stories frighten the public and would hurt my favorite vacation experience. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

 

Hi Snow Road Cruisers :)

 

My husband has been interviewed for TV quite a number of times because of his profession. From his experience I know that when an interview is edited prior to being televised, the deletion process creates a situation where many comments from that interview are aired out of context.

 

With this in mind, I think it is very risky to speak with the media about a pending law suit.

[keela1eva2]

I have been unfortunate enough to have had a couple of minor injuries on X ships. On the ship I had medical treatment which I was not charged for. However I broke my spectacles and was told on the ship to get them replaced and send the bill to X.

On the first occassion there were also some issues but when I wrote to them they more or less denied that they had said any such thing.

I wrote to UK X and then to Miami and with no response. Wrote to Jack Williams who responded saying he referred me back to the UK.

 

In the end the didn't put anything in writing but discussed it with me on the telephone. They informed me that they had another member of CS staff listening in on the phone. IN the end they paid a figure towards the replacement of my spectacles but made me feel as though I was lying.

 

After this I cancelled a X cruise and cruised elsewhere until about 3 years ago but I know that should something happen they will probably choose to ignore letters etc.

I think their Customer Services is amongst the worst in the Industry. Cunard Princess in comparison are excellent. Not that I had accidents but problem with hotels sorted out without delay.

Following cruise bottles of champagen chocolates and a few other perks.

 

I enjoy the X product but don't like their customer care.

 

Sue

[c-legs]

:eek: Hi,

Please stay away from the media !!!! Whatever else you do....

I would also suggest, as others have done, that you refrain from discussing the subject matter on these boards ( although your general contribution is certainly welcome ) as it may be used against you.

Good luck

Cheers

:)

[emptynest1]

For one, a maritime injury attorney worth his salt should have admonished you to refrain from discussing your claim with others. That includes CC, TV, etc. except under the attorney's direction.

 

If the attorney didn't do this - get a new attorney. Furthermore, the attorneys and firms that specialize in these claims (and there are specialists) typically charge on a contingent fee basis - not hourly; they earn a percentage of the recovery.

 

Based on what you've described, you've suffered a reasonably significant (not catastrophic) injury. If you've suffered disc damage - you've not fully recovered and probably won't - although disc conditions can be degenerative so your condition needs to be fully evaluated professionally from a tort liability standpoint.

 

Your communication on CC can be readily used against you in court, and you can believe that line defense counsel will 'twist' anything said here (including this post) in anyway possible to make you appear to be a liar, a malingerer, etc. - if that's what the 'job' calls for (and that's what the job calls for from defense standpoint).

 

Your affinity for cruising and the line in question will be manipulated - if the job calls for it - too. The lines are not 'soft touch' nice guys when claims arise that involve significant check writing. X as well as its competitors have a history of vigorously defending claims when the situation calls for it.

 

You appear to be creating a situation 'that calls for it'. The best suggestion is to google cruise line plaintiffs and obtain an attorney specialist in the venue of the cruise lines principal office (where the contract of carriage stipulates venue). I think X is Miami (?) These attorneys and the cruiseline's in house and outside counsel know each other. If you're claim is reasonbly minor then your attorney should be able to make a reasonably quick efficient presentation of it, and both sides will reach a fair settlement. If the claim is more substantial then the process become more substantial.

 

Stop flubbing round on CC, get competent legal expertise (not you local real estate lawyer etc.) and proceed under the direction of an experienced professional.

That's the best advice I have seen on these boards ever. Listen carefully.

[bobnatt]

There is more to this story than the writer has shared. This just does not make sense.

[Snow Road Cruisers]

There is more to this story than the writer has shared. This just does not make sense.

 

Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

There is more to this story than the writer has shared. This just does not make sense.

 

You are ½ right, it does not make sense. When an injury occurs a d you are told they will cover the medical and reimburse for the trip / inconvenience and they latter tell you the only way to possibility to get reimbursed is to sue them – that does not make sense. The bottom line is less than $20,000 medical cost (in Florida) you can only sue for actual damages – no pain & suffering, etc.). The lawyers want paid by the hour as the most they would receive on a split is $10,000.00 an d I would still only get $10,000.00 to cover my $20,000.00 -- that does not make sense. Fact if you are injured at sea your normal medical coverage does cover you and travel insurance does not cover accidents just illness, at least on my policy. Should you be unfortunate enough to be injures at sea, make sure it is a BIG, long lasting, and a permanent injury;as a cracked skull, and damage to your back (proved with MRI) "soft tissue" cases are not worthy of the lawyers’ time and the cruise lines know it!

[BrendaJ]

Now comes my dilemma; a TV producer wants to do a “ratings piece” on how passenger cruise lines treat passengers when they become injured, how consumer protection is nil for every passenger and how the laws protect the ship owners; my story would be the central story – Travelers at Risk. I have mixed feelings, as these types of stories frighten the public and would hurt my favorite vacation experience. WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

 

Just one question - how did this TV producer find you? Or did you contact them?

[smeyer418]

Thanks to everyone for their input.

 

There is more to this story than the writer has shared. This just does not make sense.

 

You are ½ right, it does not make sense. When an injury occurs a d you are told they will cover the medical and reimburse for the trip / inconvenience and they latter tell you the only way to possibility to get reimbursed is to sue them – that does not make sense. The bottom line is less than $20,000 medical cost (in Florida) you can only sue for actual damages – no pain & suffering, etc.). The lawyers want paid by the hour as the most they would receive on a split is $10,000.00 an d I would still only get $10,000.00 to cover my $20,000.00 -- that does not make sense. Fact if you are injured at sea your normal medical coverage does cover you and travel insurance does not cover accidents just illness, at least on my policy. Should you be unfortunate enough to be injures at sea, make sure it is a BIG, long lasting, and a permanent injury;as a cracked skull, and damage to your back (proved with MRI) "soft tissue" cases are not worthy of the lawyers’ time and the cruise lines know it!

 

I think I agree with Wood of Pine. The back injury alone would get you bills this much. I don't know Florida law well enough to opine. but get a lawyer who specializes in Maritime matters. there are plenty of them. I have never heard of a travel insurance policies that didn't cover injuries, while yours may be the exception it certainly is not the rule. If you were injured because the table collapsed the liability is pretty clear although the cruise line, the spa and the table manufacturer will all be pointing their fingers at one another(round robin)

[excitedofharpenden]

WKYC in Cleveland/Akron ran a piece recently on a couple being banned from ever cruising on an RCI ship. It was completely one sided, lacked anything in the way of research and I'm sure did the couple no favours. If it were me I'd avoid the media like the plague.

 

woodofpine, the last paragraph of your post says it all for me too

 

Phil

[Snow Road Cruisers]

Just one question - how did this TV producer find you? Or did you contact them?

 

A friend's relative works for a 24/7 news network and he heard the story and a network producer contacted us... Thank you, I should have stated that before.

[cusyl]

Did you purchase cruise insurance? If not, you should be going after Steiner or whoever the operator of the spa is, Not Celebrity!

 

I would also suggest that you ask that this thread be removed from the boards to protect your case.

[HAM]

Do not do the T.V. piece, and follow woodofpines' advice.

[NorthernLite]

You know that contract you read, or scrolled straight through, and agreed to? The spa is a contractor and X is not liable for their services as they are solely there for your convenience. Same goes for the medical center. This is why no one in their right mind, IMHO, should have their teeth laser whitened or anything else done that requires real skill, training updated regularly and someone who will claim responsibility onboard and in that contract.

 

MRIs do show disc damage now with contrast dye even mild damage. I just had my cervical spine done again 16 years after my first two. It showed normal, age related mild spondilytis. IOWs, mild bulging discs.

 

Have you checked your home owners policy? Whoops, reread your OP. Your health insurance covers this but not your travel insurance? Then put the claims in to your health insurer. And, will you be paid for the TV thing? If you are paid then I think you can forget sueing. What pain and suffering? You are completely recovered? I'd just ask your lawyer to send a letter requesting the spa cover your co-pays and another letter to X to request a full credit towards an equivalent cruise. Basically call it even with those two things. The first finishes up your medical bills and the second should be enough compensation for pain and suffering. But this is all just my humble opinion. That contract also says the ships are not necessarily seaworthy nor the food safe to eat.

[smeyer418]

You know that contract you read, or scrolled straight through, and agreed to? The spa is a contractor and X is not liable for their services as they are solely there for your convenience. Same goes for the medical center. This is why no one in their right mind, IMHO, should have their teeth laser whitened or anything else done that requires real skill, training updated regularly and someone who will claim responsibility onboard and in that contract.

 

MRIs do show disc damage now with contrast dye even mild damage. I just had my cervical spine done again 16 years after my first two. It showed normal, age related mild spondilytis. IOWs, mild bulging discs.

 

Have you checked your home owners policy? Whoops, reread your OP. Your health insurance covers this but not your travel insurance? Then put the claims in to your health insurer. And, will you be paid for the TV thing? If you are paid then I think you can forget sueing. What pain and suffering? You are completely recovered? I'd just ask your lawyer to send a letter requesting the spa cover your co-pays and another letter to X to request a full credit towards an equivalent cruise. Basically call it even with those two things. The first finishes up your medical bills and the second should be enough compensation for pain and suffering. But this is all just my humble opinion. That contract also says the ships are not necessarily seaworthy nor the food safe to eat.

 

Some of the contract is unenforceable under federal law(no cruise line may disclaim its own negligence which causes a physical injury). The issue of the equipment not be suitable is a different issue from professional misconduct of wither a doctor or someone in a spa..(personally as a lawyer I think the malpractice issue of physicians on a cruise ship has been wrongly decided...as between the cruise line and the passenger the cruise line has a better chance of policing the doctors...at the every least the cruise lines should make the physician available for a lawsuit in the place required on the cruise contract). get a good maritime lawyer they know this...much better than a general tort lawyer....

[as41shots]

I'd send the URL for this thread to dhanrahan@celebrity.com

[Davey Interweb]

I'd send the URL for this thread to dhanrahan@celebrity.com

 

Probably best not to inject yourself into the OP's situation, and doing this is not likely to be helpful.

[fergmom]

I have been unfortunate enough to have had a couple of minor injuries on X ships. On the ship I had medical treatment which I was not charged for. However I broke my spectacles and was told on the ship to get them replaced and send the bill to X.

On the first occassion there were also some issues but when I wrote to them they more or less denied that they had said any such thing.

I wrote to UK X and then to Miami and with no response. Wrote to Jack Williams who responded saying he referred me back to the UK.

 

In the end the didn't put anything in writing but discussed it with me on the telephone. They informed me that they had another member of CS staff listening in on the phone. IN the end they paid a figure towards the replacement of my spectacles but made me feel as though I was lying.

 

After this I cancelled a X cruise and cruised elsewhere until about 3 years ago but I know that should something happen they will probably choose to ignore letters etc.

I think their Customer Services is amongst the worst in the Industry. Cunard Princess in comparison are excellent. Not that I had accidents but problem with hotels sorted out without delay.

Following cruise bottles of champagen chocolates and a few other perks.

 

I enjoy the X product but don't like their customer care.

 

Sue

I've also had an experience where several of the management team were quite short with me and accusatory. I belive that they need to be reminded that the customer is sometimes right, and a couple of dollars here or there will get them much further than what they spend on those tv commercials and slick marketing brochures. You can never win back a soiled reputation once you've pissed off a good paying customer...

[as41shots]

Probably best not to inject yourself into the OP's situation, and doing this is not likely to be helpful.

I have no intention of "injecting myself into the OP's situation."

 

"I'd" means "I would" as in "if I were you, I would send...".

 

That is different from "I'll" which means "I will" as in "I will take it upon myself to send this to the head honcho on your behalf."