passenger sues HAL in small claims court and wins

[bruce-r]

too bad he made his post in the "Test Section" :rolleyes:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=849501

 

I'm not offering an opinion as to the content of his post, but I thought it would be of some interest to current and future HAL pax.

 

I know that I had a great time on my HAL cruise on the Zuiderdam and wouldn't hesitate to cruise HAL again if the itinerary was to my liking.

[norcal2]

The one thing that bothers me about some lawsuits is that often, as in this case, the person suing does not specify whether they stayed on the ship the entire cruise. So I won't say anything about this case because I don't know. I'll just give my opinion on lawsuits:

 

If an odor or problem is so bad it causes a cruiser to leave the ship at the first port after the incident and return home or stay elsewhere then they should be reimbursed. IF they stay on the ship and enjoy the food, service and stops then I don't see how they can be awarded anything. There is no way I'd stay on a stinky ship that is so smelly I had to sue when it was over. I either mean it or I don't and by my actions the line would know. Often the lawsuits don't match the person's actions. I have no way of knowing whether this person left the ship so I am just speaking in general.

[Travalerie]

The one thing that bothers me about some lawsuits is that often, as in this case, the person suing does not specify whether they stayed on the ship the entire cruise. So I won't say anything about this case because I don't know. I'll just give my opinion on lawsuits:

 

If an odor or problem is so bad it causes a cruiser to leave the ship at the first port after the incident and return home or stay elsewhere then they should be reimbursed. IF they stay on the ship and enjoy the food, service and stops then I don't see how they can be awarded anything. There is no way I'd stay on a stinky ship that is so smelly I had to sue when it was over. I either mean it or I don't and by my actions the line would know. Often the lawsuits don't match the person's actions. I have no way of knowing whether this person left the ship so I am just speaking in general.

Maybe everyone does not have the means to get off at a port and the ability to figure out how to get home from there. Not to mention if they have a family-could you imagine the cost of last minute plane tickets for a family of 4? Just a thought...

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks for the link.

[norcal2]

That is a possibility. I would think that would be easy enough to prove. Something as simple as requesting that the line make arrangements for you to get off and get home. Even a rejection of a request is at least evidence that I tried even if I couldn't afford to get off and get home.

 

In fact that may be present in the lawsuit that was won but many times when I read this or that lawsuit happened it is hard to draw a conclusion on why someone won or lost.

[1cruiselvr]

From experience, I have learned that winning in small claims court and collecting are two different experiences. Also, HAL can appeal to a higher court and this person may lose there. Happy Sailing!

[Hugh0906]

From experience, I have learned that winning in small claims court and collecting are two different experiences. Also, HAL can appeal to a higher court and this person may lose there. Happy Sailing!

 

First they aren't a fly by night tree trimmer.

 

Second to not to pay within the time ordered and to not appeal, the fella may be able seize any and all of their bank accounts that he can find. On any given day that would cause havoc.

 

They need legal grounds to appeal.

 

They have to put up the $funds$ the person was awarded.

 

Even a staff attorneys time for them would be worth more then that loss.

 

My guess is they paid him, because they don't want further publicity about the issue and a ship where they regularly get top dollar.

 

I am not a lawyer, but I slept with one last night...lol

 

Hugh in Dallas

[norcal2]

First they aren't a fly by night tree trimmer.

 

Second to not to pay within the time ordered and to not appeal, the fella may be able seize any and all of their bank accounts that he can find. On any given day that would cause havoc.

 

They need legal grounds to appeal.

 

They have to put up the $funds$ the person was awarded.

 

Even a staff attorneys time for them would be worth more then that loss.

 

My guess is they paid him, because they don't want further publicity about the issue and a ship where they regularly get top dollar.

 

I am not a lawyer, but I slept with one last night...lol

 

Hugh in Dallas

 

LOL Hugh!

 

You have an unfair legal advantage over me. I only slept with an IT (computer) geek so my theory blames the user. :D

[fann1sh]

Hugh and Norcal, you both have given me my Giggle of the Day.

 

As a lawyer, I agree "I had a horrible time and stayed for every minute of it" is a lousy argument. Still, my brain shrivels at the prospect of hauling my 80something parents off a long planned cruise, canceling all pre-arrangements, getting a flight home, and then "rolling the dice" on a lawsuit.

 

Given that the fare was "only" 4 grand (this sounds like a solo traveler to me) the itinerary probably wasn't too long or exotic. When I tried to backtrack, and figure out what that itinerary was, I had no luck on the roll call archives, and no luck with Google.

 

Anyone out there with any bright ideas on how to find the itinerary of a voyage already sailed?

[mamaofami]

I didn't sleep with an attorney, but I raised one.:eek: I believe that HAL chose to get rid of the publicity on this issue.No attorney fees, and really it's a very small amount to a large company like HAL. I'm surprised they didn't just settle it out of court. :confused:

[jtl513]

Anyone out there with any bright ideas on how to find the itinerary of a voyage already sailed?

Found it in a Sep 2007 - Dec 2008 catalog:

Ft Lauderdale (12/17/07)

2 sea days

St Barts

St Lucia

Guadeloupe

St Vincent and Grenadines

Barbados

Grenada

Martinique

St Kitts

St Maarten

at sea

Puerto Rico

Dominican Republic

at sea

Half Moon Cay

Ft Lauderdale ( 1/3/08)

[RuthC]

I was on the Prinsendam in July-August '07. There were a couple of areas with a definite sewerage odor for most of the cruise. They were in passageways, nears doors, in areas I was just passing through.

You mean I can get $4000 for my "distress"??? Hummm. ;)

[ekerr19]

Wow. Just wow. I have no other words.

[Hugh0906]

I didn't sleep with an attorney, but I raised one.:eek: I believe that HAL chose to get rid of the publicity on this issue.No attorney fees, and really it's a very small amount to a large company like HAL. I'm surprised they didn't just settle it out of court. :confused:

 

To settle and have it known would invite more of the same, in a world where lots of folks want a handout because they didn't like something, go read the Miracle thread that was diverted because of Gustav.

 

RuthC is downloading Seattle small claims court filing documents as we speak...lol (just kidding)

 

Hugh in Dallas

[1cruiselvr]

Well my experience and I know every state is different, is that they don't have to put up the $$ awarded during appeal process and lawyers can always find a reason to appeal. It's their job. Our case is not against a cruiseline, but similar in that it's costing them more to appeal than the original award in small claims court. Corporations and lawyers don't care....it makes the wheels of the bus go round and round. My guess is that they didn't pay him. Happy Sailing!

[Hugh0906]

from the o.p's post.

 

At first I was intimidated, but I bit the bullet, filed by mail, flew to Seattle, at a cost of $550. Hotel another $200. Rental Car: $125., so yes, it cost me almost $900 to stand up for myself, but the satisfaction was worth it, plus I still ended up with $4,048.00.

 

Sounds like he got paid to me.

 

You are right however, and a judgement is not always easily collectible, and laws do vary from state to state as well.

 

Hugh in Dallas.

[airlink diva]

I recall reading on UsaToday.com about a person that sued Delta for his flight canceling for bad weather that change him arriving home a day late. He took his case to small claims court and also won his case.

Frankly I really don't know what to think about this. While I don't have a Pollyana view that every cruise is going to be perfect, when do someone draw the line to say that it was so bad that a full refund is called for? If I had a bad meal or two or smell trash, should I sue? I look at it this way, if I could sue for when I was younger and my mother cooking skills were not the best, would I win??:rolleyes: Things happen, but where the line to say, it was so bad that I want my money back??

[innlady1]

I didn't sleep with an attorney, but I raised one.:eek: I believe that HAL chose to get rid of the publicity on this issue.No attorney fees, and really it's a very small amount to a large company like HAL. I'm surprised they didn't just settle it out of court. :confused:

I'm surprised, too, Carol, but maybe HAL didn't think the pax would pursue the claim. $4000 is peanuts to HAL, and I'm sure they consider this a nuisance suit. I'm curious about the rest of the pax on the ship...if this is the only complaint, it's a bit suspicious.

[innlady1]

Found it in a Sep 2007 - Dec 2008 catalog:

Ft Lauderdale (12/17/07)

2 sea days

St Barts

St Lucia

Guadeloupe

St Vincent and Grenadines

Barbados

Grenada

Martinique

St Kitts

St Maarten

at sea

Puerto Rico

Dominican Republic

at sea

Half Moon Cay

Ft Lauderdale ( 1/3/08)

LOVE the itinerary!

[FLACRUISER99]

I bet HAL has a big red X after his name. Good luck booking another cruise on HAL

[meterman2]

As another has stated, I too, am not a fan of lawsuits. But I like this one. The plaintiff's post was reasonable and it struck me to be about principle as much as money. I have experienced a couple of nightmares thrusted upon me by airlines in the past that were worthy of litigation, but ultimately I never did more than write the airline (which went nowhere) and then I "let it go".

 

In this case I applaud the effort. All of us know what the planning and the overall amount of time exerted preparing for a cruise involves. Getting a full refund is not a reward. Can you put a cost on the months of anticipation and exitement that has been shattered?

 

This letdown was not attributed to rough seas, illness or anything outside of the ships control. Of course it wasn't intentional but on coming out of drydock, I would deem it as gross negligence.

[pipedreams62]

[bigjohn42]

You know, i work in the legal field, in Seattle, however not in small claims cases and if iam not mistaken, this guys case # 85-03809 stipulates this case was opened in the year 1985, the first two #'s are the year the case was opened. Besides this guy has never posted anything prior to this and and not since. Just an observance, thanks, John

My case was filed as:

 

 

 

IN THE DISTRICT COURT IN AND FORKINGCOUNTY

 

STATE OF WASHINGTON

 

SMALL CLAIMS / SEATTLE DIVISION

 

 

 

 

 

 

CIVIL ACTION: CASE NUMBER: ____85-03809_______

[Philip217]

At the end of this "rodeo", it is not HAL that is paying the $4,000 - it's the passengers who pay to sail on HAL ships.

[bruce-r]

I bet HAL has a big red X after his name. Good luck booking another cruise on HAL

 

Do you think he'd want to cruise HAL again?