Change to Shareholder Policy Credit Email

[FinelyCruising]

Hi FinelyCruising !

 

I agree with Coco Creek's last post. That I know of, Cruise lines have not canceled sailings due to low demand. A Cruise ship sitting empty, would be a financial disaster. Fortunately, I do not believe that we in that bad of an economy where that will be happening anytime soon. One great thing about Cruise ships, is they are floating hotels. If one region isnt selling, they can move the ship elsewhere.... as in the case of Mercury for Winter 2009. I have a strong feeling that most every Cruise line will be redeploying more ships around, over the next year or two.

 

I feel that it is the Cruise lines goal to fill the ship, as what they may lose on the Cruise Fare, they probably feel they will make it back on additional cost items... such as drinks, spa, casino, excursions etc.

 

Even though the economy is not in great shape, I'd sure rather own a Cruise line over an airline any day of the week !

 

Hi Andy --

 

I understand what you are suggesting, yet there is a base of guests that has just been told no more special discounts for you. It was coming, it's not as though it was not evident.

 

There is another group that are booked and are pretty sure that if the food experience which is being reported on recent cruises is their experience too, then they won't sail with Celebrity anymore, and I don't think that's just talk, and that is a surprise that this is a direction that the cruise line has taken and beyond the introduction of a new menu.

 

When the solid customer base, the ones that can be counted upon are aggravated like this, its natural to give second thoughts about the only intangible that starts to really matter, and that's the overall impression of how well they are valued as a customer.

 

(Airlines only need to get people from point A to point B. The interaction is swift and precise. That industry will always, always be around and will always, always be necessary. A cruise ship is a vacation, Airlines are transportation.)

 

As much as I would like to have a discussion about further impacts of cruising due to the economy, and the impact of cutbacks, I don't want to take this thread off of its purpose of discussing the change to the policy credit. So I am sorry I took it elsewhere.

[hajekfam]

There are stockholders and there are stockholders --and we aren't the ones they are trying to keep happy.

 

Sixty-five percent of the RCCL stock is held by institutions and mutual funds, who count their holdings in tens of millions of dollars. These are the people to be kept happy.

 

 

 

But they also need to keep and expand their customer base in order to keep that 65% of the shareholders happy.

There has to be a happy medium. Why not offer combinable credits - but any non-purchased credit (shareholder, booking onboard, special sale) cannot be refunded and these credits are not applied until all purchased credits (from TA's, personal purchases, gifts, etc) that the cruiser may have are used? That way, if you don't use the credit which is at the company's expense, you lose it.

[lambs2]

But they also need to keep and expand their customer base in order to keep that 65% of the shareholders happy.

There has to be a happy medium. Why not offer combinable credits - but any non-purchased credit (shareholder, booking onboard, special sale) cannot be refunded and these credits are not applied until purchased credits (from TA's, personal purchases, gifts, etc) are used? That way, if you don't use the credit which is at the company's expense, you lose it.

 

 

Great suggestion! I hope you sent it in an email to Investor Relations!

[Peregrina651]

I know, I was just venting after all this bailout happenings this week. It would be nice if they for once would listen to us common folk.:(

Ever so sadly, big $$$$$ has always spoken louder (or perhaps we should say 'been heard more clearly') than the common man.

 

Pollyanna says at least they didn't completely eliminate the shareholder benefit.:D

[grandsix]

Glad to see there are many who are not happy with this new policy that discourages loyalty. If enough shareholders and customers let their feelings known to RCL/Celeb. HQ, they will consider reversing this poor decision. This RCL/Celeb. can avoid irreversible damage control.

[Oville]

We will be taking our first Celebrity cruise in Jan. and have two others booked. Does anyone know the fax number to use for sending our stock statement? Thanks for your help!!

 

Has anyone read the conditions on a Next Cruise or Celebrity's equivalent? I thought there was wording about not combining, but maybe I'm mistaken.

[SandyR5]

Kathryn - I just faxed my "stuff" to 1-305-373-6699. That is the number on the shareholders page. ;)

[Oville]

Kathryn - I just faxed my "stuff" to 1-305-373-6699. That is the number on the shareholders page. ;)

 

Thanks so much Sandy!!!:) Things have been quiet over on the Connie thread.

[TRadle]

While having a perk taken away sucks I think many of you are missing the bigger picture here; this company is trying to stay profitable. If the company goes under then not only do you lose a great vacation product, but you lose your investment as well.

 

I got the email, read this thread, and graphed the stock. I decided it might not be a bad time to invest in this company. This is a cost cutting measure that does not lay off staff (always bad IMO) and does not take away from the product. I actually think it is a very good move.

[saevans]

Does Tradle work for RCL?

 

If I did not read this thread how would I have known about this change? I received nothing from the company!

[TRadle]

Does Tradle work for RCL?

 

If I did not read this thread how would I have known about this change? I received nothing from the company!

 

No, I'm just a librarian. I got the same information as the OP. It could be because my final payment for my cruise came due or because I track the stock. Don't know why I got the email I just know from a business prospective it makes sense.

[RJL58]

I have just purchased stock in RCCL, and look upon it as an investment for the future, the OBC is a nice bonus/perk to have as well.

 

Whilst I agree with posts that say it is a business move in hard times as now, it does NOT reduce the cruise fare paid as say Capt Club $$ vouchers on certain sailings. It is a reduction in sea pass account, which in my opinion will not save cruise line a whole lot a $$$$. Most of products on OB accounts are heavily discounted to the cruiseline because of the wholesale buying power. So my $100 (7 daycruise OBC) spending on liquer and drinks at the bars will actually cost RCCL say what $30.

 

From a marketing point of view, on me, if I have a credit, I tend to spend more in the long run, the feel good factor of being given something as a bonus.

 

I do feel they are taking away a nice perk to there loyal fan base, although maybe a small minority in total cruisers, they dont have to work too hard to get them to return.......things might change though after reading posts on this thread. RICH

[ginagirl]

What next????? I HAD all intentions of purchasing enough FCCs to book my next 3 cruises. I will be sailing this month, and can't tell everyone how happy I am to have been made aware of this new wrinkle in Corporate Greed. Excuse me - but has anyone looked at their financial statement lately. They may be paying more for fuel, but with the fuel surcharges instituted and the obvious cutbacks on board, they are doing fine. Corporate Greed is the country's biggest enemy.:eek:

[bububr]

So in the event a cruise is cancelled or there is a problem and Future Cruise Certificates are given, lets say the pods fail on the Millie and your stuck at sea and X gives everyone 300.00 in FCC...I book a new cruise and apply this amount...then my investor credit would be nixed ?

 

Dave:eek:

[Gonzo70]

Whilst I agree with posts that say it is a business move in hard times as now, it does NOT reduce the cruise fare paid as say Capt Club $$ vouchers on certain sailings. It is a reduction in sea pass account, which in my opinion will not save cruise line a whole lot a $$$$. Most of products on OB accounts are heavily discounted to the cruiseline because of the wholesale buying power. So my $100 (7 daycruise OBC) spending on liquer and drinks at the bars will actually cost RCCL say what $30.

 

From a business stand point it doesn't work that way. Whether you had the Shareholder OBC or not you'd still be drinking the liquor. With the OBC you are spending $100 given t6 you by the cruise line (they make nothing and lose the cost of the drinks). If you don't have the OBC you spend your own money (they make the $100 minutes the expense). So they come out $100 ahead by not giving you the OBC.

[bob278]

From a business stand point it doesn't work that way. Whether you had the Shareholder OBC or not you'd still be drinking the liquor. With the OBC you are spending $100 given t6 you by the cruise line (they make nothing and lose the cost of the drinks). If you don't have the OBC you spend your own money (they make the $100 minutes the expense). So they come out $100 ahead by not giving you the OBC.

Basically correct, but I know of at least one cruiser (me :D) that would cut my spending my just about the OBC. I have a budget for out of pocket expenses and rarely exceed it. Yes, I would have to spend a little bit more (and that would be extra profit), but it wouldn't be as much as the OBC I lose for a particular cruise. I am also more willing to consider another cruise line since some of the repeat-cruiser perks are now gone or cut. Why not try another brand since I don't feel I am getting very much for my loyalty? Even if I try only one time and return, they will lose a LOT more than they made off of me by cutting the combined OBC.

 

Before anyone flames me and says I shouldn't run away over this issue, I'm not saying that. I laugh at people who take one issue and say "I'll never cruise with these bozos aggain!". What I am saying is that the overall rewards for loyalty to the RCL/Celebrity brand is getting less and less enough to keep me from considering others. For the past 7 years and 22 cruises, I never even priced other cruise lines. Now I will look at others and may find one I like. That's the risk RCL is taking.

[houstontx]

We will be taking our first Celebrity cruise in Jan. and have two others booked. Does anyone know the fax number to use for sending our stock statement? Thanks for your help!!

 

Has anyone read the conditions on a Next Cruise or Celebrity's equivalent? I thought there was wording about not combining, but maybe I'm mistaken.

 

This is from the RCL shareholders webpage. But I have not seen anything about the Oct 15, 2008 date regarding this.

 

Are there any restrictions?

 

Shareholder benefits onboard credit is not combinable with other onboard credit offers, general loyalty offers, “dollars off” promotions and savings certificates. Guests have the option to choose between the shareholder benefit or the other offer. The Shareholder must own the Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. stock at time of sailing.

Alan

[RJL58]

From a business stand point it doesn't work that way. Whether you had the Shareholder OBC or not you'd still be drinking the liquor. With the OBC you are spending $100 given t6 you by the cruise line (they make nothing and lose the cost of the drinks). If you don't have the OBC you spend your own money (they make the $100 minutes the expense). So they come out $100 ahead by not giving you the OBC.

 

Yes your right, but the OBC's are a perk/gesture of goodwill from the cruiseline and dropping the combining ability will not cause them devastating financial pain,like as if they took it from the cruise FARE that is discounting which they dont want to do unless they are forced.

 

And a litre bottle of Vodka retails in Duty Free at $12 so I feel they can afford tobuy me a few free drinks to keep me happy as a shareholder.

 

Yes they have lost out on $70 profit, but the gift has "cost" them $30.

AGAIN its the LOYAL customer thats losing out, especially the ones that book multiple cruises on board and are SHAREHOLDERS.

[houstontx]

I am thinking along the same lines as you Bob. Was going to book some Celebrity Passage at the end of this month when I am on the Connie don't think I will do it now.

 

Pam

 

Same here. We're on the Connie Dec 1st thru 12th. Would have bought another Future Passage then but no reason to now.

 

Alan & Regina

[RJL58]

Basically correct, but I know of at least one cruiser (me :D) that would cut my spending my just about the OBC. I have a budget for out of pocket expenses and rarely exceed it. Yes, I would have to spend a little bit more (and that would be extra profit), but it wouldn't be as much as the OBC I lose for a particular cruise. I am also more willing to consider another cruise line since some of the repeat-cruiser perks are now gone or cut. Why not try another brand since I don't feel I am getting very much for my loyalty? Even if I try only one time and return, they will lose a LOT more than they made off of me by cutting the combined OBC.

 

Before anyone flames me and says I shouldn't run away over this issue, I'm not saying that. I laugh at people who take one issue and say "I'll never cruise with these bozos aggain!". What I am saying is that the overall rewards for loyalty to the RCL/Celebrity brand is getting less and less enough to keep me from considering others. For the past 7 years and 22 cruises, I never even priced other cruise lines. Now I will look at others and may find one I like. That's the risk RCL is taking.

 

I agree but love the Celebrity and RCL cruises too much to change over this even though Iam not happy or agree with it. RICH

[Captain Jake]

From a business stand point it doesn't work that way. Whether you had the Shareholder OBC or not you'd still be drinking the liquor. With the OBC you are spending $100 given t6 you by the cruise line (they make nothing and lose the cost of the drinks). If you don't have the OBC you spend your own money (they make the $100 minutes the expense). So they come out $100 ahead by not giving you the OBC.

 

I honestly believe that RCI does not care about the people that are spending the 100 dollar OBC that may cost them only 30 dollars on drinks or even those that have 400 dollars worth of OBC and spend it all on board;what I feel they have trouble with are the people who cash out the $100 OBC in the casino and pocket it costing them $97 and especially those who cash out 400 dollars of OBC costing them $388.

[RJL58]

I honestly believe that RCI does not care about the people that are spending the 100 dollar OBC that may cost them only 30 dollars on drinks or even those that have 400 dollars worth of OBC and spend it all on board;what I feel they have trouble with are the people who cash out the OBC in the casino and pocket it costing them $97 and especially those who cash out 400 dollars of OBC costing them $388.

 

 

WOW I didnt realise that could happen. Why have they not stopped that from happening by keeping casino "cash withdrawal" separate on accounts. Or put a rule that cant be COMBINED with cash withdrawals

[Jeka]

I honestly believe that RCI does not care about the people that are spending the 100 dollar OBC that may cost them only 30 dollars on drinks or even those that have 400 dollars worth of OBC and spend it all on board;what I feel they have trouble with are the people who cash out the $100 OBC in the casino and pocket it costing them $97 and especially those who cash out 400 dollars of OBC costing them $388.

 

Or, better yet and go to the purser and get $100 obc or $400 obc back.

 

WOW I didnt realise that could happen. Why have they not stopped that from happening by keeping casino "cash withdrawal" separate on accounts. Or put a rule that cant be COMBINED with cash withdrawals

 

Often times OBCs do not include any cruise line money, for instance, you can have a $500 onboard credit made up of $300 from your TA and $200 form Bank of America. If you don't spend it all, up until recently you could get cash from the casino without paying a fee. Now they implemented the 3% transaction fee if you use the casino for taking the cash but no fee if you use the purser.

 

I'm not sure this answers your question at all, but it's how the current system works.

[Lsimon]

I honestly believe that RCI does not care about the people that are spending the 100 dollar OBC that may cost them only 30 dollars on drinks or even those that have 400 dollars worth of OBC and spend it all on board;what I feel they have trouble with are the people who cash out the $100 OBC in the casino and pocket it costing them $97 and especially those who cash out 400 dollars of OBC costing them $388.

 

Well that could be, but I doubt it. Yes I know there are some people who don't drink alcoholic drinks, soda pop, coffee at cova, don't take ship excursions, never eat in the specialty restaurants, don't gamble (even bingo), never get a massage or other spa services and don't buy anything else on board and end up spending under $100 during a cruise, other than their tips. But these people are in the minority - most of us spend many hundreds of dollars on these, far exceeding any of the combined OBC we've garnered through on-board booking, shareholder credits and such.

 

I really don't think Celebrity cares what the OBC credit is used for and, being an accountant finance guy, I'm with the camp that says a $100 OBC costs them $100, it doesn't matter if they use it in the casino, buy drinks or get it in cash. Lost profits cost them as much as hard costs.

 

I do agree that this is being a bit short sighted on Celebrity's part. Those of us who garner up these OBC are the kind of repeat cruisers Celebrity should be courting. We're sort of working to create our own frequent cruiser benefit - and Celebrity should be pleased that we keep coming back instead of taking away the reasons to. Bob278 makes a good point that even if the decrease in perks and benefits even causes us to take just one more cruise on another line than we would have - the potential lost profits to Celebrity could be far greater than many many cruises worth of this benefit.

[bobbyleduck]

This is one of those marketing ploys that always backfire and in many cases result in a recession for an industry or economy.

 

Think about it. Raise prices, and reduce services. These are the types of things that people will use as a reason to search for a different experience.

 

Eliminate perks and people seek out a different experience.

 

If all across the economy prices are raised, services and perks reduced, then people will sit at home, save their money and the economy will slowly spiral down into a recession or depression. All the while, cruise companies and other recreation enterprises continue to increase prices and reduce services and perks, thus causing an escalation of the downward spiral.

 

When I suggested this last year, everyone thought I was crazy, but as the recession and looming depression have become reality, it isn't so crazy afterall.

 

Happy cruising to all!

 

Bob