Fuel surcharge refunds??

[dhmom99]

The more I read the policy, the more confusing I become.

[abb4k]

The other thing that seems incredibly inequitable is that folks who book today for the same cruise I am booked on pay a fuel surcharge that is double what I paid when I booked earlier this year -- even though the price of oil is LOWER today than it was when I booked.

 

I wonder if airlines and cruise lines that previously did NOT hedge fuel prices are considering it now.

 

Lord knows I would love to buy three years worth of gasoline right now. Local prices are around $1.89/gallon for brand name regular unleaded -- as low as it's been in two years, I think.

[m steve]

His million shares are half what they were worth a year ago and no dividends after this one. Just charge the passengers for the fuel that is less than it was 6 months ago.

[debnjoe1438]

Could someone tell me the web site for checking the oil prices, please. I'm going to be booking a panama canal cruise for the end of January soon. My husband is a gambler and is waiting to see how far the prices will drop. I'm hoping the gamble doesn't back fire.:confused:

[jimgev]

I expect that part of the problem is the way fuel is purchased. Ships purchase fuel in ways similar to airlines. A ship does not pull up to a station with a current posted price per gallon. The parent company negotiates huge quantities for future delivery. They are likely using fuel now that they had to pay a large price for when it was higher than it is today. Their fuel costs do not reflect current market price at all. Sometimes it is more and sometimes it is less.:confused:

[abb4k]

http://www.worldsleadingcruiselines.com/AboutUs/FuelSupplementUpdate.aspx

 

Could someone tell me the web site for checking the oil prices, please. I'm going to be booking a panama canal cruise for the end of January soon. My husband is a gambler and is waiting to see how far the prices will drop. I'm hoping the gamble doesn't back fire.:confused:

[auntdana]

oil is low now every passenger needs to call, e-mail fax or snail mail a letter

 

they make it almost impossible to get back the fuel surcharge

 

these are hard times for ALL

 

they are making money now with all this extra surcharge that oil is so low

[larsenbiz]

Here's another question about the fuel surcharge refund...The website says

 

"Each departure date will be evaluated independently and any applicable refunds will be automatic. Although guests and travel agents do not need to apply for the credit or track the price of oil per barrel, the websites of our individual cruise lines should indicate if a specific cruise is eligible for a fuel supplement refund."

Does this mean that there is flexibility? For example, my cruise departs 12/13/08. On election day, the price of oil closed just about $70 per barrel, but if it stays below $70 until 5 days before my cruise, would HAL look at that and give the OBC? I thought I understood this, but the above quote is a bit confusing.

[drbees]

Everyone should send a message to HAL expressing their dissatisfaction with their current policy. Here is the short message I sent.

 

I just wanted to let you know how disappointed I am to learn that HAL has decided to use a unreasonable method to determine the ending of the fuel surcharge. It appears that the single day slightly over $70 will prevent me from having the fuel surcharge removed. This is unfair and unsupportable. I supported the fuel surcharge when oil was over $100, but I am very disappointed in how HAL has responded to the huge decline.

 

I do respect your right to chose how to run your business, but you have to understand that corporate integrity is important to me.

 

As such, if the fuel surcharge is not removed from my cruise, you can assume that this will be my last trip on HAL. This will be my 11 cruise in the past 8 years, and my 6th in the last 3 years. I am retiring next year, and it is unfortunate that HAL will not be in my future plans.

 

HAL still has the opportunity to get it right. Don't miss the opportunity.

 

Regards,

[novembre]

To whom should we address above letter?

 

Do you suggest email, or a proper postal-service letter?

[Sundagger]

It doesn't do much good to threaten HAL - the fuel surcharge policy applies to almost all Carnival Corp lines (Carnival Cruise Lines, Costa Cruises, Cunard Line, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises and The Yachts of Seabourn).

 

In fact, the fuel surcharge policies of all the major US lines are very similar. Who are you going to cruise with next?

[serendipity1499]

I expect that part of the problem is the way fuel is purchased. Ships purchase fuel in ways similar to airlines. A ship does not pull up to a station with a current posted price per gallon. The parent company negotiates huge quantities for future delivery. They are likely using fuel now that they had to pay a large price for when it was higher than it is today. Their fuel costs do not reflect current market price at all. Sometimes it is more and sometimes it is less.:confused:

 

You are correct..The Cruise Lines purchase their oil based on futures, not the current price of oil..

 

Everyone should send a message to HAL expressing their dissatisfaction with their current policy. Here is the short message I sent.

 

I just wanted to let you know how disappointed I am to learn that HAL has decided to use a unreasonable method to determine the ending of the fuel surcharge. It appears that the single day slightly over $70 will prevent me from having the fuel surcharge removed. This is unfair and unsupportable. I supported the fuel surcharge when oil was over $100, but I am very disappointed in how HAL has responded to the huge decline.

 

I do respect your right to chose how to run your business, but you have to understand that corporate integrity is important to me.

 

As such, if the fuel surcharge is not removed from my cruise, you can assume that this will be my last trip on HAL. This will be my 11 cruise in the past 8 years, and my 6th in the last 3 years. I am retiring next year, and it is unfortunate that HAL will not be in my future plans.

 

HAL still has the opportunity to get it right. Don't miss the opportunity.

Regards,

 

This is not HAL's Policy alone ! What do you expect to accomplish by sending it to HAL...Also as Sundagger asked: What cruise line are you going to use instead of HAL, Princess, Cunard etc..which all come under Carnival Corp.? Celebrity's fuel policy comes under the overall RCCL policy which is very restrictive....

 

It doesn't do much good to threaten HAL - the fuel surcharge policy applies to almost all Carnival Corp lines (Carnival Cruise Lines, Costa Cruises, Cunard Line, Holland America Line, Princess Cruises and The Yachts of Seabourn).

 

In fact, the fuel surcharge policies of all the major US lines are very similar. Who are you going to cruise with next?

 

Sundagger hit the nail on the head..Most of the major cruise lines fall under either Carnival Corp or RCCL..

Carnival Corp made the policy not HAL..As sundagger states all the major cruise lines policy is similar..

Many posters believe that RCCL's policy is better...First of all they charge $10 per day per person not $9..They canceled fuel surcharges for bookings starting in in 2010 only...For travel before 2010 fuel must be below $65.00 or less two weeks prior to the quarter..In my opinion RCCL's policy is very similar...Here is RCCL's policy directly from their WEB site...

Fuel Supplement Information

October 24, 2008, Update

Our fuel supplement will no longer apply to new Royal Caribbean International bookings made on or after November 10, 2008, anywhere in the world, for sailings that depart on or after January 1, 2010.

This decision takes into consideration the recent reductions in global fuel prices. We have also established specific guidelines that will determine whether fuel supplement refunds will be provided for sailings that begin in 2009 and later, which were booked prior to November 10, 2008, if fuel prices remain below a specific price threshold.

 

For 2009 sailings and 2010 sailings booked before November 10, 2008, we will determine on a quarterly basis whether fuel supplements will be refunded. Refunds, in the form of an onboard credit, will be provided if the closing price of West Texas Intermediate fuel is $65 or less, at the closing time of the New York Mercantile Exchange, two weeks prior to the beginning of the upcoming calendar quarter. When those conditions are met, an onboard credit will be provided to all guests on sailings that begin during the upcoming calendar quarter.

 

The dates on which the price of West Texas Intermediate fuel will be measured, and the quarters during which refunds could apply are:

 

Fuel Price Determination Date / Quarter of Possible Fuel Supplement Refunds

December 18, 2008 / First quarter 2009

March 18, 2009 / Second quarter 2009

June 17, 2009 / Third quarter 2009

September 17, 2009 / Fourth quarter 2009

December 18, 2009 / First quarter 2010

March 18, 2010 / Second quarter 2010

June 17, 2010 / Third quarter 2010

September 17, 2010 / Fourth quarter 2010

 

We will continue to closely monitor the movement of global fuel prices and recognize that an upturn in those prices could necessitate the reinstatement of a fuel supplement. UNQUOTE

 

Now the way I interpret RCCL"S policy is if fuel is above $65 on Dec 18, no one who has a cruise between Jan 01, 2009 & March 31, 2009 will get a refund..RCCL Corp also charges $10.00 per day not $9.00..

 

Cheers..:)Betty

 

 

[m steve]

I think that they could reduce the $7-$9 down to $5 as well. Good will and they still will pick up another $10,000+ per cruise.

[waASPCrusier]

You are correct..The Cruise Lines purchase their oil based on futures, not the current price of oil..

Cheers..:)Betty

 

 

This is not correct...Carnival uses spot price:

 

Carnival Corporation 10-K report, page F-41

 

Bunker Fuel Price Risks

We do not use financial instruments to hedge our exposure to the bunker fuel price market risk. We estimate that our fiscal 2008 fuel cost would increase or decrease by approximately $3.3 million for each $1 per metric ton increase or decrease in our average bunker fuel price.

 

 

excerpt from:

http://www.worldcruise-network.com/f.../feature43281/

 

"Carnival plans no changes to how it buys fuel. "We will continue to buy on the spot market and we haven’t done any hedging," Corrigan says. Exactly opposite, RCCL credits its containment of fuel costs to buying 18 months ahead and to hedging. This year it expects to pay 16% more for fuel than in 2007, compared with a 66% first-quarter to first-quarter increase at Carnival."

 

Tayo and Kristy

[serendipity1499]

This is not correct...Carnival uses spot price:

 

Carnival Corporation 10-K report, page F-41

 

Bunker Fuel Price Risks

We do not use financial instruments to hedge our exposure to the bunker fuel price market risk. We estimate that our fiscal 2008 fuel cost would increase or decrease by approximately $3.3 million for each $1 per metric ton increase or decrease in our average bunker fuel price.

 

 

excerpt from:

http://www.worldcruise-network.com/f.../feature43281/

 

"Carnival plans no changes to how it buys fuel. "We will continue to buy on the spot market and we haven’t done any hedging," Corrigan says. Exactly opposite, RCCL credits its containment of fuel costs to buying 18 months ahead and to hedging. This year it expects to pay 16% more for fuel than in 2007, compared with a 66% first-quarter to first-quarter increase at Carnival."

 

Tayo and Kristy

 

Tayo & Kristy...I stand corrected...So now my question is:

RCCL estimates it will only pay 16% more for fuel compared to Carnivals estimate of 66% more in the first quarter, why would RCCL's fuel surcharge be higher than Carnival's ? :confused:

See ABB4k"s post Quote:

As many of you no doubt know, CCL's large competitor is using an "average price" method in determining whether to refund fuel surcharges.

 

That does seem much more fair.

 

Too, why should CCL require the price of oil to stay below its $70 threshold for **25** days when my cruise is only 7 days? I realize some cruises are longer, but most are not 25-day affairs.

I can't see where RCCL's fuel surcharge refund policy is any better than Carnival's fuel surcharge refund policy...RCCL is requiring the price to be $65 or lower on a certain day for the entire next quarter to get a refund, while Carnival is saying $70 or lower for 25 days up to 5 days before departure...:confused:

IMO the refund policies are almost the same...I too can't understand why there would be an objection to receiving OBC, which is cash? :confused:...Can you imagine if a Cruise Company had to issue a check or refund on a credit card for each passenger?..That would be an accounting nightmare & very costly for the cruise Line..

Re the posters who say the cruise lines make money on other things & nickle & dime everyone...

We've been cruising for over 20 years..The base fares have not significantly increased like inflation has in those 20 years..

Therefore Cruise Lines had to find other ways to increase revenue..The stockholders demand it!

I for one, believe that policy is the most equitable..Our ships invoices at the end of a cruise are significant lower than many other Psgrs, because we don't purchase photo's, only have one glass of wine or a cocktail per day, don't do much shopping, use the spa & only play bingo once in a while...IMO that's the way it should be..

Cheers..:)Betty

[Q.E.D.]

[quote name='serendipity1499']Our ships invoices at the end of a cruise are significant lower than many other Psgrs, because we don't purchase photo's, only have one glass of wine or a cocktail per day, don't do much shopping, use the spa & only play bingo once in a while...IMO [B]that's the way it should be[/B].[/QUOTE]Bolding mine.

Why is your way "the way it should be"?? :confused:

There is no "right way" to spend one's own money on a cruise. :p

[m steve]

the ship couldn't taske advantage of all that hot air and had to use more fuel.:eek:
lead line should read they not the

[Q.E.D.]

[quote name='m steve']the ship couldn't taske advantage of all that hot air and had to use more fuel.:eek:
lead line should read they not the[/QUOTE]Um...what?:confused:

[serendipity1499]

[quote name='Q.E.D.']Bolding mine.

Why is your way "the way it should be"?? :confused:

There is no "right way" to spend one's own money on a cruise. :p[/quote]

[SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][B]You are completely mis-interrupting what I said..I never said your final invoice should be as low as mine or that everyone must spend as little as we do or that my way is the right way...:([/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][B]You are not quoting what I said in it's entirety, which I think explains clearly what I meant..[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[COLOR=blue][SIZE=3][B]I said: Quote[/B][/SIZE] [/COLOR]

[B][SIZE=3][COLOR=red]We've been cruising for over 20 years..[U][I]The base fares have not significantly increased like inflation has in those 20 years..
[/I][/U][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][I][U]Therefore Cruise Lines had to find other ways to increase revenue..The stockholders demand it![/U][/I] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

[COLOR=red][B][SIZE=3][U][I]Our ships invoices at the end of a cruise are significant (;) I left off the ly) lower than many other Psgrs, because we don't purchase photo's, only have one glass of wine or a cocktail per day, don't do much shopping, use the spa & only play bingo once in a while...IMO that's the way it should be...U][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Base prices of cruises have not increased in the past 20 years...Cruise lines found another way of making a profit & that is by charging for incidentals, which is the way it should be.. [B][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]20 Years ago many of the extras [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][B]were included such as soft drinks, water, special coffee's, the sauna, the alternative restaurants etc.. Now they are extra & that is fine with me & it's the most equitable way of doing it...[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR][COLOR=red][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
[COLOR=red][B][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Why should I pay a higher cruise price if I don't use all of the amenities...I went on to say our final invoice is lower than many other Psgrs because we don't use these amenities, [COLOR="Red"]which is the way it should be..If you use the amenities then you should pay extra for them as long as the base price of the cruise remains low[/COLOR][/I][/U].. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]
[B][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]
[B][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Cheers...:)Betty[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]
[COLOR=red]



[/COLOR]

[Q.E.D.]

[quote name='serendipity1499']You are completely mis-interrupting what I said[/QUOTE]Mis-interrupting? What?:eek:

[m steve]

when you don't have any kids in school.

[joe122]

"As a consumer you already agreed to book a cruise and pay a fuel surcharge, if you are lucky the fuel surcharge is refunded - money you had already agreed to pay anyway."

This is one of the most offensive posts I've ever read on these boards. There is always someone acting as a gatekeeper for the cruiseline.

If I understand these data figures correctly, crude oil has been below $70 since 10/24/08:


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Most Recent Year Ago 09/26/08 10/03/08 10/10/08 10/17/08 10/24/08 10/31/08 11/07/08 11/09/07 WTI - Cushing 106.77 93.91 77.44 71.90 63.34 68.10 61.06 96.36 Brent 100.88 88.95 74.58 66.05 60.57 60.00 56.84 92.32
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Most Recent Year Ago 09/26/08 10/03/08 10/10/08 10/17/08 10/24/08 10/31/08 11/07/08 11/09/07 Total OPEC 98.44 93.24 81.78 70.46 64.38 59.18 58.80 86.47 Total Non-OPEC 99.29 93.55 82.27 70.77 64.59 59.45 58.49 85.48 Total World 98.82 93.38 82.00 70.60 64.48 59.30 58.66 86.02 United States 97.90 91.70 80.91 69.28 62.81 57.53 56.26 83.03

[joe122]

Sorry...the original formatting was lost.

[iamwiz82]

Crude was actually at $70.5x on Nov 4, IIRC. Which puts most of us out of the running :|

[richnorto]

It would surprise me if a few cents one day blip in oil prices would keep Carnival lines from doing an OBC refund (at least in part). I'm sure the company is cognizant of the disappointment from cruisers and would try to work something out to keep their customers happy. They do not seem to be an unreasonable company. Just hope for the best and appreciate it if they decide to overlook that small market blip!:) Fingers crossed!!!