Fuel surcharge refunds??

[joe122]

[quote name='iamwiz82']Crude was actually at $70.5x on Nov 4, IIRC. Which puts most of us out of the running :|[/quote]

It's a bit creepy the way the calculate it. However, if I understand the HA's M.O., it has to be below $70 for 25 consecutive days, ending 5 days before you sail. In my case, that would be November 29th. My ship departs on December 5th...just under the line if I'm right.

[waASPCrusier]

[quote name='joe122']It's a bit creepy the way the calculate it. However, if I understand the HA's M.O., it has to be below $70 for 25 consecutive days, ending 5 days before you sail. In my case, that would be November 29th. My ship departs on December 5th...just under the line if I'm right.[/quote]

I believe it is "trading days"....

Tayo and Kristy

[joe122]

[quote name='waASPCrusier']I believe it is "trading days"....

Tayo and Kristy[/quote]

Apparently, you are right. GRRRRR!

[auntdana]

i called HAL

i have the fax # for anyone who wants to send a fax

about this issue. it needs to be an average i feel.

FAX # 206-301-5327

[serendipity1499]

[quote name='Q.E.D.']Mis-interrupting? What?:eek:[/quote]

[SIZE=3][B]LOL...I actually meant to say[/B] [B]misinterpreting...I'm sure you knew that but seem to be getting a big kick out of making fun of my post! [/B][/SIZE]

[quote name='m steve']when you don't have any kids in school.[/quote]

[SIZE=3][B]So true Steve..[/B][/SIZE]

[quote name='auntdana']i called HAL

i have the fax # for anyone who wants to send a fax

about this issue. it needs to be an average i feel.

FAX # 206-301-5327[/quote]

[B][SIZE=3]Why would anyone believe that Faxing HAL will make a difference..:confused: Apparently you have not read the posts which state this is a Carnival Cruise Corporation ruling not HAL's...If you want it to do some good, you should fax the Corporation Headquarters...[/SIZE][/B]
[B][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/B]
[B][SIZE=3]JMO..Betty[/SIZE][/B]

[iamwiz82]

It would make sense that HAL would forward these letters to CCL higher ups.

[larsenbiz]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=Purple]Did anybody see the part in the policy that reads "Each departure date will be evaluated independently"? I'm hoping that the company will be reasonable. There were mentions of that blip above $70 on election day. If oil stays low until 12/5, that 53 cent blip would not allow a refund, unless...Each departure date is evaluated independently and they give it to us anyway.

What are your thoughts?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[richnorto]

[quote name='larsenbiz'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=Purple]Did anybody see the part in the policy that reads "Each departure date will be evaluated independently"? I'm hoping that the company will be reasonable. There were mentions of that blip above $70 on election day. If oil stays low until 12/5, that 53 cent blip would not allow a refund, unless...Each departure date is evaluated independently and they give it to us anyway.

What are your thoughts?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

I think they are reasonable and will try to make people happy. They don't have to give OBC based on the blip, but it would sure create some good "karma" for the line if they did!

[Ando]

[quote name='larsenbiz'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=Purple]Did anybody see the part in the policy that reads "Each departure date will be evaluated independently"? I'm hoping that the company will be reasonable. There were mentions of that blip above $70 on election day. If oil stays low until 12/5, that 53 cent blip would not allow a refund, unless...Each departure date is evaluated independently and they give it to us anyway.

What are your thoughts?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

My interpretation of "Each departure date will be evaluated independently" simply means that the 25 trading days before the 5 trading days before each cruise departure day will be used to determine if an individual sailing qualifies for the fuel surcharge onboard credit refund.

Unfortunately I don't think it means that they will look back at the 25 days and if it "almost" qualified be nice guys....reasonable as you suggest...and give everyone the refund anyhow. If that were their intention they could have worded the refund policy along the lines of:

if the price of light sweet crude oil.....is $70 per barrel or less at the 2:30 pm close of business as reported by Reuters on [COLOR="Red"][B](24 out of)[/B][/COLOR] each of the 25 consecutive trading days ending five trading days prior to the guest's cruise departure date, the fuel supplement will be automatically refunded in the form of a shipboard credit.

I agree that it would be outstanding if they did do this and everyone would be delighted and the boards would be full of positive posts about the fuel surcharge refund policy, but I don't think Carnival Corporation will have such a generous attitude.

Let's hope they prove me wrong :)

[RuthC]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]I strongly believe Carnival Corporation's fuel surcharge refund policy will be applied exactly as worded (and interpreted in preceding post) until it's revised entirely. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#4169e1]There is nothing to stop Carnival Corporation from revisiting the policy as economic conditions warrant. That's what they did going in, and I think that's what they'll do going out. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[calcruz]

Yesterday I booked a trip for January 18, 2008. My fuel surcharge is $9 per day. HAL's website lists fuel charges at $9 per day. Today I received my Mariner magazine and the fuel surcharge is $5 per day or $70 total for a long trip. But what do you want to bet that my already booked surcharge will stand? I'm calling them Monday hoping for a change and and hoping that this $5 charge bodes well for the future - in case one of the 25 days on preceding future trips tips above $70.

[auntdana]

I took the time and effort to call HAL

I spoke with a gentleman in the corporate office.

He advised me to fax my thoughts to HAL headquarters.

i guess some of you do not beleive in the power of the pen,

if people get together and unite many things can happen.


aFTER all with this bad economy they want to stay in business and make customers happy

At least i am making the effort to stand behind the cause

[drbees]

I thought I would share part of the response I received from CCL via HAL

[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]"The modest fuel supplement that Holland America Line has instituted is solely intended to help us partially offset recent increases in the cost of fuel, while allowing us to continue to invest in innovative new ships, as well as make upgrades and enhancements to our existing fleet. [/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]As stated in our brochures and on our website, “We reserve the right to impose or pass through fuel surcharges, security surcharges, or similar incidental surcharges.” Please note that the cost of fuel increased well over a year before we implemented any sort of fuel supplement charges. Presently, oil prices remain volatile and until they stabilize, the current policy will remain in effect."[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][I]Net, it says:[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][I]1. We need the funds to build new ships.......Do I get a free ride on this new ship I am paying for????[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][I]2. We did not charge past passengers for our increased fuel costs, so we intend to capture the lost revenue from current passengers until we recapture the cost not paid by the previous passengers.....Gosh, why would I not think this is fair????[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][I]3. We may have to create addional surcharges in the future.....Since electricity on the ships is generated with fuel oil, will we have meters in the cabins????[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][I]4. If you think anything is going to change in the near future, you are kidding yourshelf.......Probably true.[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][B][I]I would encourage you to share your thoughts with CCL/HAL. [/I][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][B][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][B][I]As to some of the posts referencing my previous post, I assure you I have many choices, and one of them could be to refrain from cruising until I find cruise lines that demostrate corportate principals and values that align with my expectations .......;)[/I][/B][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Susie51]

Is there still a chance for obc on Dec. 13?

[nini]

Susie51- Let's fax CCL/HAL and let them know our thoughts. We are a family of 4 and have reserved 2 cabins; and $252.00 of OBC would go a long way for us. I (me and DH) am footing the bill for all of us (2 DD's in their 20's). The price was over $70.00 only one day (Nov. 4th) so far, in their formula.

[aussiedisneyfan]

Are there any public holidays or days that the exchange will be closed between now and mid December.

[RuthC]

[quote name='aussiedisneyfan']Are there any public holidays or days that the exchange will be closed between now and mid December.[/quote]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=royalblue]In America the Stock Exchange should be closed on Thanksgiving. It's on November 27th this year. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[larsenbiz]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=purple]The NYMEX is NOT the New York Stock Exchange. The NYMEX is NOT closed on Thanksgiving. Check it out yourself at:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[URL="http://www.nymex.com/holida_schedu.aspx"][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=purple]http://www.nymex.com/holida_schedu.aspx[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL]

[BigGreenFan]

[quote name='larsenbiz'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=purple]The NYMEX is NOT the New York Stock Exchange. The NYMEX is NOT closed on Thanksgiving. Check it out yourself at:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[URL="http://www.nymex.com/holida_schedu.aspx"][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=purple]http://www.nymex.com/holida_schedu.aspx[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/URL][/quote]

You are correct that the NYMEX is not the NYSE but your link shows that the NYMEX is closed on Thansgiving, as is every financial market in the U.S.

What is really unfortunate about CCL's methodology of determining to refund the fuel surcharge is that it doesn't take into effect the level of oil prices other than the $70 trigger. I feel sorry for those people who got knocked out by the one day at $70.53 when here crude is today at $56.06 as I write this. CCL is benefitting a lot more than they would if oil traded at $69.99 for 25 consecutive days!

[serendipity1499]

[quote name='BigGreenFan']You are correct that the NYMEX is not the NYSE but your link shows that the NYMEX is closed on Thansgiving, as is every financial market in the U.S.

What is really unfortunate about CCL's methodology of determining to refund the fuel surcharge is that it doesn't take into effect the level of oil prices other than the $70 trigger. I feel sorry for those people who got knocked out by the one day at $70.53 when here crude is today at $56.06 as I write this. CCL is benefitting a lot more than they would if oil traded at $69.99 for 25 consecutive days![/quote]


[SIZE=3][B]Agree that NYMEX is neither the York Stock Exchange or the American Stock Exchange...[/B][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][B]I think you are mis-reading that site...The New York Mercantile Exchange looks to me like it's open on Thanksgiving..:confused:This is what it states next to Thanksgiving: [/B][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][B]Quote: [/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]Thursday, November 27
(Electronic trading and NYMEX ClearPort® are unaffected and will run on a normal schedule) [/B][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][B]Does anyone understand & know what that statement means?[/B][/SIZE]..[SIZE=3][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][B]Realize that the NYSE & American stock Exchange are closed as are U.S. Brokerages, however what about International Traders who trade on the NYMEX... Wouldn't those electronic trades have some bearing on the final closing price of Crude? Isn't' it possible that since it's strictly a U.S. only Holiday, they would have to keep it open for International trading...The statement exists on several other U.S. Holidays too..The only two Holidays on that site which indicate completely closed are Christmas & New Years, which are Holidays all over the world..:confused:[/B][/SIZE]
[B][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/B]
[B][SIZE=3]Betty[/SIZE][/B]

[BigGreenFan]

[quote name='serendipity1499'][SIZE=3][B]Agree that NYMEX is neither the York Stock Exchange or the American Stock Exchange...[/B][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][B]I think you are mis-reading that site...The New York Mercantile Exchange looks to me like it's open on Thanksgiving..:confused:This is what it states next to Thanksgiving: [/B][/SIZE]

[SIZE=3][B]Quote: [/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3][B]Thursday, November 27[/B][/SIZE]
[B][SIZE=3](Electronic trading and NYMEX ClearPort® are unaffected and will run on a normal schedule) [/SIZE][/B]

[SIZE=3][B]Does anyone understand & know what that statement means?[/B][/SIZE]..

[SIZE=3][B]Realize that the NYSE & American stock Exchange are closed as are U.S. Brokerages, however what about International Traders who trade on the NYMEX... Wouldn't those electronic trades have some bearing on the final closing price of Crude? Isn't' it possible that since it's strictly a U.S. only Holiday, they would have to keep it open for International trading...The statement exists on several other U.S. Holidays too..The only two Holidays on that site which indicate completely closed are Christmas & New Years, which are Holidays all over the world..:confused:[/B][/SIZE]

[B][SIZE=3]Betty[/SIZE][/B][/quote]

It means that there is electronic trading available but if you read closely, you will see that trades done electronically will have a posting date of Friday and that no closing prices will be posted on Thanksgiving Day. So, for the purpose of the fuel surcharge Thanksgiving Day will not count as one of the 25 consecutive days.

[Twickenham]

[quote name='BigGreenFan']It means that there is electronic trading available but if you read closely, you will see that trades done electronically will have a posting date of Friday and that no closing prices will be posted on Thanksgiving Day. So, for the purpose of the fuel surcharge Thanksgiving Day will not count as one of the 25 consecutive days.[/quote]

[FONT=Palatino Linotype][SIZE=3][COLOR=navy]I read on a calendar of opening hours (cannot for the life of me find the link now) that Thanksgiving was a [I]half[/I]-day for NYMEX. Therefore, it [I]does[/I] count towards the 25-day fuel surcharge calculation; it is in fact indicated on the Carnival site: [/COLOR][URL]http://www.worldsleadingcruiselines.com/AboutUs/FuelSupplementUpdate.aspx[/URL][/SIZE][/FONT]

[serendipity1499]

[quote name='BigGreenFan']It means that there is electronic trading available but if you read closely, you will see that trades done electronically will have a posting date of Friday and that no closing prices will be posted on Thanksgiving Day. So, for the purpose of the fuel surcharge Thanksgiving Day will not count as one of the 25 consecutive days.[/quote]

[B]Would you be kind enough to give us the URL of the page which stated closing prices will not be posted on Thanksgiving & will not count as one of those days..:confused: I've been reading closely & still can't find it..[/B]

[B]Thanks..Betty[/B]

[serendipity1499]

[B]Since we're leaving on a Cruise Friday, I've sent an e-mail to NYMEX info. & requested the information about closing prices on Thanksgiving..Have also requested permission to post their reply..They may not reply but we'll wait & see..[/B]

[B]Cheers..:)Betty[/B]

[drbees]

Oil Falls to Lowest Level in 22 Months