Can They Ride It Out and What Will It Look Like

[G'ma]

Please elaborate how Carnival is a "cash" company.

 

When you indicate $9,500,000,000 is "relatively little outstanding debt", what is that relative to?

 

 

Howard

 

Ohfer crying out loud. I didn't mean they are sitting around with barrels full of cash all over the place. Of course they have debt....they are a huge corporation.

 

Here, read:

 

http://markets.on.nytimes.com//research/modules/company_topic/drawFiling.asp?docKey=137-000116923208002427-2S1HQQS0V6RBF4I6ATLDR9QRKS&docFormat=HTM&formType=10-Q

[rsinj]

Ohfer crying out loud. I didn't mean they are sitting around with barrels full of cash all over the place. Of course they have debt....they are a huge corporation.

 

Here' date=' read:

[/quote']

 

So what did you mean? You said it, and I'm not a mind reader able to figure what you meant. It surely wasn't obvious.

 

The problem is that I've seen people around here for the past 9 months all thinking of themselves as little Wall St. geniuses, recommending purchase of RCL stock. Every last one looks pretty ridiculous now having stated how undervalued the stock was at prices even above $40/share. You flippantly proclaim Carnival is a "cash company" (what exactly that means, you still haven't really said) with "relatively little outstanding debt". In fact, neither of those claims are true. Carnival, just like RCL has a ton of outstanding debt no matter what your definition is.

 

If you are not able to clearly explain what you mean, why get so defensive when asked to explain yourself?

 

Pointing to a corporate filing still does not explain what a "cash" company is nor how they have "relatively little outstanding debt". Relative to what? Other cruiselines? No - Carnival has more outstanding debt than all other cruiselines. Relative to other "huge" companies? Some, but how would you compare Carnival, to say Boeing? Boeing has 5 times the yearly revenue as Carnival, yet Carnival is carrying $2 billion more debt than Boeing. So, when you say "relatively little outstanding debt" what do you mean?

 

Howard

[TEXASMUNK]

The CEO of RCI is fearful...so he buys stock

Carnival is going to survive and RCI fail because someone likes their food better

The CEO makes lots of money, thus he must be evil (the new American Mantra...there once was a time when we took pride in American companies, now they only get ridiculed)

etc,etc,etc,

[BayStateguppy]

"Cash" Companies? Banks are "cash" companies, too. Yet two banks were taken over by the Feds today.

 

RCL stockholders:

Persons holding stock in a company have a financial gain in convincing others to buy the stock --- it helps their portfolio.

Same goes for those who hold stock in RCL and then flame posters wanting to smuggle booze on board or posters who are upset about drink price increases. They benefit from any increase in RCL revenue.

 

If you are a RCL stock holder, you are not impartial and your responses in regards to my pocketbook are suspect.

[TEXASMUNK]

Anger management course some folks might find valuable?

[BayStateguppy]

Really Tex.. you shouldn't interject emotion onto another's post where there is no cause.

[Cruise Junky]

So what did you mean? You said it, and I'm not a mind reader able to figure what you meant. It surely wasn't obvious.

 

The problem is that I've seen people around here for the past 9 months all thinking of themselves as little Wall St. geniuses, recommending purchase of RCL stock. Every last one looks pretty ridiculous now having stated how undervalued the stock was at prices even above $40/share. You flippantly proclaim Carnival is a "cash company" (what exactly that means, you still haven't really said) with "relatively little outstanding debt". In fact, neither of those claims are true. Carnival, just like RCL has a ton of outstanding debt no matter what your definition is.

 

If you are not able to clearly explain what you mean, why get so defensive when asked to explain yourself?

 

Pointing to a corporate filing still does not explain what a "cash" company is nor how they have "relatively little outstanding debt". Relative to what? Other cruiselines? No - Carnival has more outstanding debt than all other cruiselines. Relative to other "huge" companies? Some, but how would you compare Carnival, to say Boeing? Boeing has 5 times the yearly revenue as Carnival, yet Carnival is carrying $2 billion more debt than Boeing. So, when you say "relatively little outstanding debt" what do you mean?

 

Howard

 

Here's a chart comparing the two...the Debt to Equity is on here.

 

https://www.gurufocus.com/compare.php?symbol=RCL

[Darkwolfe]

I look at this very simply right now. It's a downturn. It's not RCI's or CCL's fault that their stock has fallen off. They're both vacation related companies and because of that detail alone, their stock will drop like a rock when an economy slows down. That's one of the hazards of owning the stock right now, so the day traders have dumped it.

 

The bad part is that day traders can hurt the long time stockholder when they do that. We see it right here in this discussion. To me, this is good buying opportunity. RCI has weathered bad economies many times before and there is one thing no one here has considered. Ships can GO to the business if they have to.

 

Say the ships can't sail full from the US for a while, but other markets pick up a bit. What's to keep RCI from cruising from Japan or adding to the European itineraries? The answer is really nothing.

 

Oasis wasn't nearly a gamble when the project was started. You'l notice that RCI is going to have her done on schedule and NCL was the line that choked on its new build F3. On top of that, the per-passenger cost of ownership on Oasis should actually work out to be less than that same cost on a smaller ship. So, Oasis does make a certain amount of sense even now.

 

Should the market get tighter and still harder for RCI to attract customers, the lower cost of operation per passenger means they have more room to adjust fares in order to make at least some profit. Keep that consideration in mind.

 

Personally, I'm buying right stock right now. I have a strong feeling that 5 years from now, I'm going to look back on this and laugh all the way to the bank. I'd say Mr. Goldstein is thinking the same thing. There's no fear involved. Do a little quick math.. Even if the stock only goes up to $10, that's better than a 30% ROI. Nothing to shake a stick at.

[rsinj]

Here's a chart comparing the two...the Debt to Equity is on here.

 

https://www.gurufocus.com/compare.php?symbol=RCL

 

So your definition of "relatively little outstanding debt" is "when compared to RCL in term of debt/equity"?

 

Thanks.

 

Howard

[Cruise Junky]

So your definition of "relatively little outstanding debt" is "when compared to RCL in term of debt/equity"?

 

Thanks.

 

Howard

 

I never opened my mouth about "relatively little outstanding debt" merely posted the link. Might want to check you have the right person :rolleyes:

[rsinj]

I never opened my mouth about "relatively little outstanding debt" merely posted the link. Might want to check you have the right person :rolleyes:

 

I'm aware who made the original comment - but figured since you were pointing out the debt/equity info, that was an indication of agreement with the poster.

 

In any case, thanks for that reference.

 

Howard

[TEXASMUNK]

levity injection, nothing more! :-)

 

I too intend on an additional purchase on Monday am.

[Cruise Junky]

but figured since you were pointing out the debt/equity info, that was an indication of agreement with the poster.

 

 

Nope, just sharing information.

[Rancher Dave]

Hey Dave,

 

I've got the long clothes on also (here in central Florida). Got down to 34 last night. What's with this whacky weather? Hope your decorating goes good. Think mine is on a smaller scale than yours but at least it's already done.

 

Take care buddy

 

Tanker

 

Since I showed the link for the show example...I have only been in for 20 minutes to eat dinner catered in by the family...Came in for the night about 10-15 minutes ago...see time of post...

 

Most of the display is now up, I have the tunnel over the driveway to put together tomorrow and perhaps light. I have to paint part of it still once it goes up so it is a real toss up if I will just build it and light it come Monday evening or what. Once I build it I have 2 sets of bushes to light, and then run elec cables to the mini trees and extn cords to a few items...Monday night or Tuesday night I will hook up the control devices (same in fact as used at MGM Disney World to make the lights dance to the music there for a few songs...they just have more lights and more controllers...but then they got more money too). Also have to put the lit sign with the radio station freq out front...broke a leg on it last night and just fixed that.

 

I have 48 lit channels for the show...so far most are installed, and about half are set up to the control spot with labled extn cords. By the end of my day tomorrow I should have most corded and to the control spot. Plugging all in correctly to the three controllers will take some time on Monday or Tuesday night.

 

My goal is to test it all out on Tuesday at 9 or 10pm so my DD can watch since no school on Wed. The show is slated to go live on Thursday at 5pm.

[Rancher Dave]

Here is how the Triumph looked two weeks ago as she sailed by the Freedom OTS out of Miami. Rust all the way down the ship.

 

When on AOS in St Thomas I was invited to the bridge...we watched one of the CCL ships sail and there was tons of rust...cost cutting I guess by CCL. I think the Navy would send a Captian over board if he let a ship get so nastly looking...

 

I refrained in my initial comments about CCL from mentioning the rust so as not to be flamed for talking trash about CCL...but your picture did justice to the topic.

[beachbuddy]

Personally I would be thrilled to see some new Radiance class ships instead of these mammoth creations like Oasis and Allure. :)

 

Yeah, me too!!! I love the Radiance Class ships!! Of course I like the Voyager class too! But I don't think the Oasis is going to be our cup of tea!! I hope they do well with it with family type cruising, but I honestly don't think that it's going to attract the avid cruiser.

 

Patty

[Cruising89143]

Yeah, me too!!! I love the Radiance Class ships!! Of course I like the Voyager class too! But I don't think the Oasis is going to be our cup of tea!! I hope they do well with it with family type cruising, but I honestly don't think that it's going to attract the avid cruiser.

 

Patty

 

Don't think that RCI is going after the avid cruiser with this ship. They want families that would normally spend their vacation at Disney or a land resort.

 

RCI has plenty of different size ships to please everyone and that's a good thing.

[beachbuddy]

Don't think that RCI is going after the avid cruiser with this ship. They want families that would normally spend their vacation at Disney or a land resort.

 

RCI has plenty of different size ships to please everyone and that's a good thing.

 

Oh, I know they're going after families. I just hope the economy starts going in the other direction because I'm afraid families won't be able to afford it. It could run quite a bit for a family with 2, 3 or 4 kids. Much more than a land resort - most all inclusives don't even charge for kids under a certain age. I'm wondering if areas like the Boardwalk will up the revenue for RCCL, for instance I wonder if there will be games to play, if they have to pay to ride the Merry Go Round, things like that are all added expenses for families. I hope RCCL does well with that ship but honestly I had my doubts as soon as they started revealing all the neighborhoods. It's a ship I'd like to see or experience once just because it's probably going to be amazing, but we'll stick with the Radiance and Voyager Class. We haven't even tried a Freedom class yet but hopefully we will soonl

 

Patty

[Cruising89143]

Oh, I know they're going after families. I just hope the economy starts going in the other direction because I'm afraid families won't be able to afford it. It could run quite a bit for a family with 2, 3 or 4 kids. Much more than a land resort - most all inclusives don't even charge for kids under a certain age. I'm wondering if areas like the Boardwalk will up the revenue for RCCL, for instance I wonder if there will be games to play, if they have to pay to ride the Merry Go Round, things like that are all added expenses for families. I hope RCCL does well with that ship but honestly I had my doubts as soon as they started revealing all the neighborhoods. It's a ship I'd like to see or experience once just because it's probably going to be amazing, but we'll stick with the Radiance and Voyager Class. We haven't even tried a Freedom class yet but hopefully we will soonl

 

Patty

 

RCI has already announced that there will be no charges for the Carousel or zip line. We already know that they do not charge for the Flowrider, ice skating, etc. This ship is still a year away from sailing with paying customers. Who knows what the economy will be like then. RCI will do what it has to fill the ships.

[beachbuddy]

RCI has already announced that there will be no charges for the Carousel or zip line. We already know that they do not charge for the Flowrider, ice skating, etc. This ship is still a year away from sailing with paying customers. Who knows what the economy will be like then. RCI will do what it has to fill the ships.

 

I'm glad to hear that there will be no extra charges for those things. I was afraid that they were doing it to get more revenues spent onboard but I'm happy with what you told me. I hope they do well with it. I'm sure the ship itself will be amazing.

 

Patty

[satxdiver]

NCL has had spam for lunch in their buffets for a few years now (and the food their chef's put out isn't much better)-- NO THANKS!!

 

SPAM, which I have the same opinion as you, is considered a delicacy and much sought after in Hawaii and Pacific islands such as Micronesia. During WWII spam was the only meat they could get and they developed a taste for it. Both McDonalds and Burger King have SPAM on their menu in Hawaii, Guam and other islands. Hawaii has an annual SPAM festival. The majority of SPAM production in MN and NE is shipped to the pacific islands. SPAM is a product of Hormel. SPAM is also sold in Europe where they became familiar with it after WWII when we shipped them food. I have never seen SPAM in the buffet line on a cruise ship but would not be surprised to see it. Some people actually prefer SPAM.

[Monkeythyme]

Bingo.

 

Also, RCI IS going after new customers. How do you grow your business if you don't? Also, families are now the main target that RCI is going for. Just look at the ships that they have been turning out for the last ten years. They are no longer just your grandparents cruise line. That should come as no surprise to anyone.

I tend to agree, and I think it is a smart move. Instead of just looking like a higher priced Carnival with bigger ships, they are beginning to look like a lower priced Disney without the cartoon silliness. Should be very appealing to the family market.

And you can get 100 shares this morning for $700US.

[Monkeythyme]

First of all the words "beautiful and "elegant" will never be used to describe anything that Carnival builds. Tacky is more like it. It's true that beauty is in the eye of the beholder which makes me question a person taste that thinks anything Carnival is beautiful.;)

Quite true. Other things that, IMO, fall into the "tacky" category:

1. McDonalds

2. Disney cruise ships

3. Disneyland, Disneyworld, etc.

4. The Mall of America

5. Edmonton Mall

6. Network prime-time TV

I could rattle on, but as someone far wiser and wealthier than myself once said, "Nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.";)

[Monkeythyme]

Please elaborate how Carnival is a "cash" company.

 

When you indicate $9,500,000,000 is "relatively little outstanding debt", what is that relative to?

 

 

Howard

 

I am seriously looking at both stocks, so here's the numbers:

Debt to net earnings ratios: RCL 13.6:1 CCL 4:1

[Monkeythyme]

Here's a chart comparing the two...the Debt to Equity is on here.

 

https://www.gurufocus.com/compare.php?symbol=RCL

Thank you a thousand times. I was focused on ratios and failed to check trends. RCL's net earnings percentage has grown twice as fast as gross revenues, while CCL's %'s are almost the same. Also, RCL's revenue growth in the most recent year reported was 3 times Carnival's. Looks like a deal to me!