?(No) Trays in Lido

[CaveDiving]

Gator83, you say << If someone does not like not having a tray then they should go to the dining room. Going to the dining room is probably the best answer for someone with a disabilty. Or don't go on the cruise at all; find another way to vacation.>>

 

I feel your comments, particularly your final comment, is way out of line. Is it really your place to be telling other people what they "should" be doing? Perhaps, on the other hand, you ought to consider how you vacation. After all, on a cruise you need to associate with all of these dissatisfied, unhappy people who have the temerity to actually express their feelings.

 

Scott

[Sundagger]

I can hardly wait for HAL to further emulate those paragons of luxury cruising - NCL and RCCL.:mad::mad::mad:

[Mary Ellen]

If someone does not like not having a tray then they should go to the dining room. Going to the dining room is probably the best answer for someone with a disabilty. Or don't go on the cruise at all; find another way to vacation.

I have been one of the more vocal opponents to the removal of trays from HAL ships due to my DH's mobility concerns. We HAVE switched our breakfast and lunch to the Dining Room when possible because of the this. HOWEVER, the the dining room is not always open (such as in port) or has more limited hours. There are times we are FORCED to use the Lido - do you expect us to be confined to our cabin??? :eek

[Juanita462]

Thanks RevNeal and others for the voices of reason.

 

To suggest that we should not cruise because of my husband's

handicap is downright cruel and I have been sitting here fuming - until I read some very good replies to this statement.

 

Head office told me that if trays were not available we could ask for one

and it would be produced - we will definitely be doing that.

[RuthC]

If someone does not like not having a tray then they should go to the dining room. Going to the dining room is probably the best answer for someone with a disabilty.

The dining room isn't always open. So, then we shouldn't be able to eat, is that what you mean? :mad:

Or don't go on the cruise at all; find another way to vacation.

Speaking of "mean", this is. Cruel, even. Congratulations on hitting a low. :mad:

[altosax]

I really don't understand the need for multiple trips. At least on RCI ships, all that food fits nicely on one single large plate, and one only needs to make a second trip for beverages which are at a completely different station near your seating areas anyway. So two trips max per person. And if you have two or more in your party, one person can go get multiple drinks for the rest.

 

Perhaps my own lack of understanding and confusion on this issue is because: (1) HAL uses small plates?, and/or (2) HAL doesn't have conveniently located food and drink "stations" in the Lido? If HAL does use small plates, I would hope that, if they get rid of trays, that they'd use the RCI-sized plates.

 

 

Maybe I want a side of a pancake or a waffle with a little syrup which I do not want running into my other food like some fruit and cheese - doesn't mix well. That's a max of three trips.

 

And then I'll want a half scoop of oatmeal with a little milk, or some congee with a few drops of soy, which I certainly don't want co-mingling with my maple syrup or scrambled eggs. So that is four trips max.

 

Now I don't eat huge meals, but I like small amounts of many flavors. Certain foods, as I have pointed out, I don't like mixing together.

 

Now I can do this with a tray or four trips, but without a tray, two trips max is out of the question.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I promised myself I would not post in here again and I totally agree a comment the way it was made today was uncalled for but to be worrying about our food touching :eek: We are not grade schoolers and my gosh what do you think happens when it gets in your stomach :D But for many years now Las Vegas very nice expensive resorts have done just fine for the 3 meals a day including breakfast with pancakes and syrup with one big plate and being able to put numerous things on this one big plate.

 

Perhaps for those that do not want their food touching HAL will come out with this....

Or this

[DizzyDallasDi]

The Eurodam has those round metal rods used for tray sliding (sorry, I don't know the technical term) installed in all areas of the Lido. So, that's another ship in the fleet that will continue to offer trays.

 

From reading this thread, it appears that HAL has discontinued the trays in only a very few of their ships. So, those of you who must have them should be able to continue cruising on HAL with no worries.

 

Diane

[altosax]

Here's an interesting and timely article in today's Washington Post about food waste in the U.S.: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/27/AR2008112702155.html?nav=rss_nation.

 

The article emphasizes how Americans waste an astonishing 30% to 50% of our food, and goes on to specifically say how the removal of trays and the reduction of serving sizes/portions has reduced food waste at Virginia Tech's cafeterias and the MGM Grand's buffet by 38% and 20% respectively. If the cruiselines can achieve similar results, then I think the end result is worth any minor inconvenience to passengers.

 

 

Do these stats say anything about the waste that comes out of the kitchens of VT or the MGM Grand or, more germane to this discussion forum, on a cruise ship?

 

Ever just happen to be in the Lido at closing time and see how much prepared food is left over at closing time? IT IS SUBSTANTIAL.

 

Seriously, I see far more waste from what is left on the buffet line than I see from what is left on the table. The crew that I have spoken to on the subject (admittedly just a few) have told me that no they do not eat the unclaimed food from the Lido. They have their own mess with mostly indigenous food.

 

If HAL wants to go on a waste saving campaign, they need to take a serious look at the amount of food being prepared. Even if it means taking a risk of more dishes being "no longer available" towards the end of the daily service time periods.

[Copper10-8]

............. Additionally, there were some staff members who were just terrible ... apparently new people who were rushed through the SS Jakarta without sufficient training to the HAL standard ... and their fumbling mistakes and constant errors generated far more work that had to be re-done than those who knew what to do could handle. Adele's cabin steward comes to mind in this regard, as do several members of the Front Desk staff.

 

Assumption or fact, Rev?;)

Front Desk personnel are from the Philippines and don't go through the ms Nieuw Jakarta

What will HAL do to enable the sizable percentage of their elderly and infirm passenger base to cope with this change? Providing trays to allow the limited number of staff members -- or, alternatively, a small number of able bodied fellow passengers who are traveling with infirm passengers -- to easily transport more two plates at a time is a viable suggestion that shouldn't be summarily dismissed. What other options to address their concerns either exist or could be tried?

 

An excellent question to be directed to and answered by those pax having been on the "No tray trial ship", I lost track, which one is it again?

[RevNeal]

I don't think there is a "majority" of elderly and infirm passengers on the shorter Vista ship-type cruises, Rev.[/Quote]

 

Re-read what I wrote, Rita. I said the exact OPPOSITE: "I'm certain that for the larger percentage of passengers on the Vista ships this is not going to be any kind of a physical problem." HAL's fleet-wide demographic, inclusive of the S and R ship passengers, trends older. On the Vistas, however, the opposite will tend to be true.

 

And, when you do have them, I think in most cases they are traveling with their families and could easily get the extra help they need. They are probably getting it now with the trays.

 

Again, agreed. And the use of a tray for that person (almost always singular) would make it easier for them to get food for TWO.

 

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this idea, but if there's good reason for it ... sanitation, minimizing waste, etc., then I understand that HAL has to take these cost-saving measures and just eliminate the trays. If it becomes too much of a hassle for someone elderly or infirm to get through the Lido line without a tray, then I guess I would have to say that probably their best bet is to avoid the Lido altogether and just eat in the dining room, or order room service to their cabin.

 

I'm going to reverse that and shoot it right back at you. Remember, YOU originated it. Those who don't like the Dress Code and refuse to dress formal on formal night should just dine in the Lido or in their cabins. Goose, meet gander. If you're going to suggest it for this matter -- ability to dine someplace -- then it certainly applies for the less important matter of clothing preference (something which someone can adapt to the context, not something that is forced upon them by physical inability).

 

I'm not trying to be unsympathetic here ... but I just don't see this as that big of a problem. I don't think passengers would be expected to juggle multiple plates. I am willing to bet that the basic plate will be bigger ... with sections for various food items ... and the plate would simply take the place of a tray. There may even be a spot on the plate designed to hold a drink.

 

Like the styrofoam plates we used at church for our last fellowship dinner? Or the dinner plate/trays they use at my grandmother's nursing home. How elegant! I'm sorry for the sarcasm, but I just couldn't help myself. I doubt that it will help much for the issue of people who can't carry either a tray or a plate and who have to rely on others to obtain food for them. Those people will either have to make multiple trips -- once for themselves, once for the one who can't handle it -- or they'll have to try and balance everything with two hands. The drink-holster image posted here is beginning to look more and more useful.

 

If a passenger can carry a tray now, they should easily be able to carry their plate too. And, if they do have some problems, there are plenty of stewards to assist them in finding a table and getting everything to that table.

 

We're expecting there to be plenty of stewards to help people to get their stuff to the tables, and we're expecting there to be plenty of stewards to buss the tables, provide drink refills, do everything else too? Is there enough staff to do this and maintain standards in the main dining room, too?

 

I can well understand that HAL needs to economize, and food waste is probably a big contributor to excessive costs. The trays will probably minimize that problem and that may be why they are going that route.

 

That seems probable to me, too.

 

As I said, I'll reserve my opinions until I've seen the new procedure in action and see exactly how it works. It may actually be no different from what we are used to now ... it's just that the larger plates, minus tray, will force people to take smaller portions and then go back for more if they are still hungry.

 

Again, I agree and this seems probable to me. However, nothing you've posted gives a REALISTIC suggestion for how those with mobility issues will be cared for in this new set up. Granted, on a Vista/Signature ship there won't be as many of them as on an S/R ship, but there will be some. Who helps them if the staff is busy bussing the tables and getting drink refills, etc? (as at an on-land buffet). I, too, am willing to wait and see how it works, and I certainly don't anticipate problems for me personally. Even my mother, in her mid-70s, won't have problems with the new system when she finally encounters it in a year or two (she's not booked on a Vista in 2009). But what about people like Karl? Indeed, what about people like Karl who are traveling without spouses who will have to make a trip for them and then a trip for themselves rather than a single trip with a tray?

[Copper10-8]

Do these stats say anything about the waste that comes out of the kitchens of VT or the MGM Grand or, more germane to this discussion forum, on a cruise ship?

 

......................

 

Germans? What Germans? Where are the Germans?:eek:

[RevNeal]

Assumption or fact, Rev?;)

Front Desk personnel are from the Philippines and don't go through the ms Nieuw Jakarta

 

Correct on both counts. However ... some of the worse staff members we met or heard about (or had) on the Eurodam we later found out were among those who were brand new to the Line. Why they were so terrible is a mystery. That's why I said "apparently."

 

On the other hand, some of the most amazingly wonderful, yet brand new, crew members were recent graduates of the Jakarta school ... the ladies who staffed the Silk Den and Tamarind Restaurant. Those ladies put the men to shame and were one of the brightest and most superb aspects of the ship.

[Copper10-8]

...................

On the other hand, some of the most amazingly wonderful, yet brand new, crew members were recent graduates of the Jakarta school ... the ladies who staffed the Silk Den and Tamarind Restaurant. Those ladies put the men to shame.

 

I'm with ya on that one, Rev! Gracious service with a smile! They have to make room for it but I bet ya Tamarind is coming to the other ships, eventually!

[altosax]

As for wasting food - we have only occasionally seen that on cruises.

the only time I leave food on the plate is when I ask for a very small portion of something and the server puts on 3 times as much as I would have taken for myself.

 

 

 

Ain't that the truth!

 

I cannot tell you the number of times I've asked for a half bowl of hot cereal only to be served a full bowl which I can neither eat nor can the servers put back into the vat.

 

Or have asked for just a very small amount of scrambled egg and they give me an overflowing spoonful. Or just 2 pieces of bacon plz and I wind up with a rasher.

 

Or the number of times at the pasta station I have asked for a half-order, very small amount or appetizer size amount (I've tried all sorts of ways) and still received a humungus plate of pasta which will go mostly uneated.

 

Or one scoop of ice cream plz and I get served two scoops anyway.

 

I wonder what they would serve me if I ordered half a Martini?

 

Again, if HAL wants to limits wastage, they need to have their servers listen and understand more carefully when passengers request a SMALL serving of something.

[DizzyDallasDi]

I wonder what they would serve me if I ordered half a Martini?

 

Why the heck would anyone do that?!?!?!? :D

 

Diane

[altosax]

I promised myself I would not post in here again and I totally agree a comment the way it was made today was uncalled for but to be worrying about our food touching :eek: We are not grade schoolers and my gosh what do you think happens when it gets in your stomach :D But for many years now Las Vegas very nice expensive resorts have done just fine for the 3 meals a day including breakfast with pancakes and syrup with one big plate and being able to put numerous things on this one big plate.

 

Perhaps for those that do not want their food touching HAL will come out with this....

 

 

 

Oh my, a depression era grill plate. Very nice. Very collectable.

 

Looks like an English Hobnail base with maybe a cornflower or sunflower cutting. That is a cutting rather than an etching on the rim, yes? Hard to tell from the photo.

[rjm1cc]

It does not seem to be a client friendly idea. I could see that I might get use to it for myself but if you are assisting someone in getting there food to the table it won't work and that would be my last cruise on that line for my family.

 

If we want to be green lets park the "boat".

[PatsyAnne]

I recognize there are people with different needs, and hope and expect HAL will meet them. For myself, anything that makes me work harder for my food is a good thing, and may help me wear the same size at the end of a cruise as I packed for the beginning. Perhaps if they made me pick up one french fry at a time...

 

Of course, I could use some self-restraint... I'm sure it's somewhere deep within me.:rolleyes:

 

Trish

[pipedreams62]

Germans? What Germans? Where are the Germans?:eek:

 

 

Were you looking for us?

 

 

 

[Copper10-8]

Were you looking for us?

 

 

Dis-missed!

 

 

"I know nothing, nothing!"

[Pokeynose]

We will be taking our second cruise on the Westerdam next Sept. I'll not complain to the crew about the trays, I'll just bring two along with us. We like to eat breakfast in our suite but like the Lido for lunch or late night snack. We do not take more food than we can eat since we are diabetic and watch our portions. I do not like someone else carrying my food in the Lido for several reasons. This will not spoil our cruise. We'll adapt and are looking forward to having a good time.:)

[GeriatricNurse]

We got off a 65 day cruise on the Amsterdam this week and there definately were trays in the Lido.

 

Without trays, how do you get your food to the table?

 

Scott & Karen

 

 

With both arms outstretched, hands with palms facing up & fingers spread apart; have some benevolent person place your meal plate(s), bowels, glass(es) cup(s), saucer(s) & utensils, etc. on both of your hands and running up both of your arms to the ?elbows (or beyond), then attempt to locate a vacant seat in the (busy) Lido!

[pipedreams62]

With both arms outstretched, hands with palms facing up & fingers spread apart; have some benevolent person place your meal plate(s), bowels, glass(es) cup(s), saucer(s) & utensils, etc. on both of your hands and running up both of your arms to the ?elbows (or beyond), then attempt to locate a vacant seat in the (busy) Lido!

 

[kryos]

Again, agreed. And the use of a tray for that person (almost always singular) would make it easier for them to get food for TWO.

And a large plate ... or even two ... will also work. I watched a woman going through the Lido line on many occasions, followed by her handicapped husband who was on a scooter. They were both relatively young ... I think he had some sort of a muscular problem. She had two trays, one for each of them. She was push them along the rail ... getting the various items he requested, as well as her own. When they got to the end of the serving line (this was mainly at dinner), a steward would grab one tray, sometimes a second steward the other, and then walk them over to the beverage station, or anywhere else they needed to stop at, to get the remaining items they needed. The husband here was severely handicapped ... I watched him being CARRIED onto a tender, so I know he couldn't walk at all ... and it worked for them. No reason the plates, assuming they are large enough to contain a full meal, can't work as well.

 

 

 

I'm going to reverse that and shoot it right back at you. Remember, YOU originated it. Those who don't like the Dress Code and refuse to dress formal on formal night should just dine in the Lido or in their cabins. Goose, meet gander. If you're going to suggest it for this matter -- ability to dine someplace -- then it certainly applies for the less important matter of clothing preference (something which someone can adapt to the context, not something that is forced upon them by physical inability).

If HAL was serious about their formal dress code, that's exactly what I would do. My contention is that HAL is no longer particularly enforcing it, and in the future will probably dump it altogether, so there is no need for me to dine in the Lido or via room service on formal nights unless I choose to for other reasons. But, if HAL was enforcing it, then yes ... I would agree. If I don't want to get dressed, then I can't go to the dining room. Simple as that.

 

 

 

Like the styrofoam plates we used at church for our last fellowship dinner? Or the dinner plate/trays they use at my grandmother's nursing home. How elegant! I'm sorry for the sarcasm, but I just couldn't help myself.

It's the Lido, Rev ... not the formal dining room. It doesn't have to be "elegant." It's just an informal eatery for those who prefer not to dine more formally on that particular day. I see no problem with large plate/trays.

 

Look, I'm not trying to argue here. I just think we are all getting worked up over nothing. The elimination of trays would just mean that HAL has an alternative planned. That alternative doesn't necessarily have to be an unworkable one. Shouldn't we just see how this works before we try to shoot it full of holes?

 

I doubt that it will help much for the issue of people who can't carry either a tray or a plate and who have to rely on others to obtain food for them. Those people will either have to make multiple trips -- once for themselves, once for the one who can't handle it -- or they'll have to try and balance everything with two hands. The drink-holster image posted here is beginning to look more and more useful.

If those people can't handle a tray now, what's the difference that they can't handle a plate? They need help now and they'll need it then. Obviously HAL has no problem providing that help, and will do so gladly ... though I must admit that I shake my head in wonder that some of these people even bother with the hassle of the Lido when they could be sitting comfortably in the dining room enjoying a meal that is brought to them.

 

 

 

 

We're expecting there to be plenty of stewards to help people to get their stuff to the tables, and we're expecting there to be plenty of stewards to buss the tables, provide drink refills, do everything else too? Is there enough staff to do this and maintain standards in the main dining room, too?

Seems to be plenty of stewards in the Lido when I was on the Statendam, with trays. I had to wave them off just about every day when they would want to help me carry my tray back to the table during breakfast. I'd rather they be available for others who need the extra help and was always politely refusing their offer. The tables were also promptly bussed (unlike on Carnival where I had cruised for four days prior to the Statendam cruise) and stewards were always coming around offering coffee refills, etc.

 

As for having enough people for the dining room, HAL keeps a running tally, at least at dinner, as to where people are dining each day. I'm sure they are keeping track of that for a reason, and the first one that comes to mind is for staffing. How many people are traditionally eating in the Lido, say on a formal night, and how many in the dining room? Based on those historical numbers, my guess is that's how many stewards/waiters are assigned to each area. Seems to work.

 

But what about people like Karl? Indeed, what about people like Karl who are traveling without spouses who will have to make a trip for them and then a trip for themselves rather than a single trip with a tray?

When he gets to the front of the serving line, he just says a word to the greeter there and I am sure a steward will be assigned to assist him. As I said, I saw that several times on my 35-day cruise, where we had a very high number of elderly and infirm passengers. Trust me, the dining room manager for the Lido made sure they had all the help they needed to enjoy a wonderful meal in his dining room, and I would imagine Karl will have no problems. At least I'm willing to wait and see if he does before I get myself all worked up over this. There are plenty of other HAL changes that I would prefer to get steamed over ... the lack of trays in the Lido just isn't one of them ... at least for now.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita