Trapped in Bangkok

[oysterfiend]

Things can easily go out of hand. Violence can erupt, and has already erupted.

 

If you are only pleasure-seeking, for a nice vacation, WHY bother to go to a place where potential hazzard could happen?

 

Unless a person has a MUST DO reason to visit Bangkok, why go? Why risk to have another episode like the current one?

 

Yeah, the tactics used by the protesters are common - tell this to the OP and the tens of thousands tourists / visitors who are stranded, not knowing when they can go home, it is of very little comfort and usefulness to them. Then for those who plan to go before the civil unrest escalates to this level since it started 3 to 4 months ago, why bother to go even a few months from now?

 

I dont know about others, I know for me and my family, we just want a pleasant trip, no reason to head to a locale where there are potential of civil upheaval, terrorist attack (such as Mumbai, or Middle East), and the like.

 

We have been to Thailand - Phuket, Pattaya, and Chiang Mai- 3 plus weeks all up

we have also been to Bali

Whilst I haven't read the whole postings on this I can tell you this - we thought the Thai people were lovely,

As were the Indonesians

Unfortunately in countries like this internal politics can easily alter the domestic situation and foreigners can be caught out, I feel very sorry for them and I am glad such a thing has never happened to us

 

Where do you go these days that is completely safe?

 

their protest is NON Violent but is Causing alot of disruption and unfortunately average Thai will suffer as a consequence in their daily lives from the scare off factor to incoming tourists,

It is difficult to know where it is safe to go these days,

Crazy people waste people in Burger restaurants in western countries,

planes crash,

Even ships are targeted by pirates.

If we stopped to wonder about each and every possible thing that could happen to us None fo us would go anywhere.

How Do you know when you book where and when the NEXT CIVIL UPHEAVEL will be??

[Aussie Gal]

We always book at least a year to 18 months in advance and I agree with oysterfiend, where is it safe in the world today? Often cruises you have booked months in advance end up going to cities that are not so safe. Other than staying at home and not venturing out anywhere, one has to take a chance.

 

We have been fortunate in that we were able to visit India and Mumbai earlier this year plus we had an overnight in Bangkok and we cruised up the Gulf of Oman and the Red Sea without seeing a pirate. We just happened to go at the "right time" in April/May.

 

It is pure luck to go to a country or city and there isn't some kind of trouble. I remember in 2000, we were doing a land tour of Spain and Portugal and after we would leave a city by only a few hours , it would be bombed by the Basques. This seemed to happen all round Spain and yet we didn't see any violence or people hurt as we were just one step ahead of the terror.

 

I for one am not going to stop travelling or cruising. I will be careful and heed our Government's warnings but I am still intend to see the World in the years I have left of my life.

 

Jennie

[oysterfiend]

I wonder why we haven't seen any of this in the News. Not on TV or newspaper. I don't doubt this is happening and feel sorry for the stranded people.

I would never chance taking a bus somewhere else to leave a city that is not safe. Who will keep you safe on a bus.

 

I don't mean to be Rude but we notice when we are in the States Your NEWS is not very wordly unless we go on CNN,

We find USA news very egocentric and focusses mainly only what is happening either in the USA or immediately Affects the USA

[murmar]

Some Canadian tourists have arrived in Canada more expected within hours. Our Gov't made arrangements. Why is the US so quiet on this situation. Very little news about disturbances affecting US citizens is not usual. Our news stations are giving reports on every major news show. Maybe the very old and ill US citizens can get out soon as there is no political reason to hold them there. The Tai tourist industry shoud be trying their hardest to help also as this could be a major blow to the industry which is big $$.

[oysterfiend]

Some Canadian tourists have arrived in Canada more expected within hours. Our Gov't made arrangements. Why is the US so quiet on this situation. Very little news about disturbances affecting US citizens is not usual. Our news stations are giving reports on every major news show. Maybe the very old and ill US citizens can get out soon as there is no political reason to hold them there. The Tai tourist industry shoud be trying their hardest to help also as this could be a major blow to the industry which is big $$.

Our government and the Australian govt is also very involved,

Its been on the news every night,

But then we live in the Asia/Pacific region.

As to USA govt- its a bit like New Orleans and Katrina,

You have to wonder when they think its okay to help their own citizens,

and how long they must wait before they take an interest,

I am sure glad I am a New Zealander

[MoonPet]

I don't mean to be Rude but we notice when we are in the States Your NEWS is not very wordly unless we go on CNN,

We find USA news very egocentric and focusses mainly only what is happening either in the USA or immediately Affects the USA

 

You are absolutely right. Our local news broadcasts are devoid of world news and the nightly "world news" broadcast is 99% world news that directly affects the USA. I was never aware of how biased our news broadcasts were until I started spending more time out of the US.

 

I now watch the BBC, Euronews, and Deutsche Welle when I want a "real" tv news broadcast. Depending on your cable provider (in the US), CNN has a channel "CNN International" that is a little more global in scope.

[oysterfiend]

You are absolutely right. Our local news broadcasts are devoid of world news and the nightly "world news" broadcast is 99% world news that directly affects the USA. I was never aware of how biased our news broadcasts were until I started spending more time out of the US.

 

I now watch the BBC, Euronews, and Deutsche Welle when I want a "real" tv news broadcast. Depending on your cable provider (in the US), CNN has a channel "CNN International" that is a little more global in scope.

 

At least you noticed the difference-

I thought I'd get slammed for that but it wasn't meant as anything personal,

just an observation,

We find when in the USA we feel completely shut off from the Pacific region where we live

[critterchick]

At least you noticed the difference-

I thought I'd get slammed for that but it wasn't meant as anything personal,

just an observation,

We find when in the USA we feel completely shut off from the Pacific region where we live

 

I agree that US news spends more time on local events than international, but is that not the case with most local stations around the world? I've not had the pleasure of visiting your part of the world yet, so I haven't seen a broadcast to compare. I'm hoping to remedy that in the next year or two!:)

 

This incident does seem to warrant more attention than its getting from our media - there was a report trailing across the bottom of CCN tonight that I would have missed altogether had I not seen this thread and been looking for some news.

[Leejnd4]

I've been following this thread, and this story, from the beginning. I get most of my news from the internet, and spotted a report on this pretty early in the drama. I have much sympathy for the folks stranded in Bangkok. (And like many others in here, I too feel that many of the posts in this thread have been unnecessarily harsh, given what the OP is going through. From certain members, however, it's their standard modus operandi - they pounce on any opportunity to snark at people in a superior, belittling manner. :rolleyes: )

 

The good news is that I just read a report that the situation may be coming to a conclusion very quickly. The Constitutional Court of Thailand just dissolved Thailand's government, which is essentially what the protesters want. There are reports that the protests at the airport may be ending soon, so that commercial flights can begin, and trapped tourists will be able to leave. Let us hope that this is the case, and that all tourists are able to quickly and safely get home.

 

Here is a link to the news report, for those interested in actually learning about the situation, rather than attacking the stranded OP:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_re_as/as_thailand_political_unrest_206

 

I do hope the OP comes back and shares with us the outcome of their adventure.

[mycruz]

I was just getting ready to post this same story. I see that the protesters have gotten what they wanted so we'll see how soon our fellow cruiser and family will be able to return. Hopefully soon!

[DrivesLikeMario]

I don't mean to be Rude but we notice when we are in the States Your NEWS is not very wordly unless we go on CNN,

We find USA news very egocentric and focusses mainly only what is happening either in the USA or immediately Affects the USA

 

You aren't kidding!! And believe me, there are some of us Americans that get annoyed at that. Thank God we also have BBC World News. ;)

[caber]

You aren't kidding!! And believe me, there are some of us Americans that get annoyed at that. Thank God we also have BBC World News. ;)

It is the same everywhere. Here in the UK we would hear more about a situation in the world if Brits are involved.

[hobo1937]

I've been following this thread, and this story, from the beginning. I get most of my news from the internet, and spotted a report on this pretty early in the drama. I have much sympathy for the folks stranded in Bangkok. (And like many others in here, I too feel that many of the posts in this thread have been unnecessarily harsh, given what the OP is going through. From certain members, however, it's their standard modus operandi - they pounce on any opportunity to snark at people in a superior, belittling manner. :rolleyes: )

 

The good news is that I just read a report that the situation may be coming to a conclusion very quickly. The Constitutional Court of Thailand just dissolved Thailand's government, which is essentially what the protesters want. There are reports that the protests at the airport may be ending soon, so that commercial flights can begin, and trapped tourists will be able to leave. Let us hope that this is the case, and that all tourists are able to quickly and safely get home.

 

Here is a link to the news report, for those interested in actually learning about the situation, rather than attacking the stranded OP:

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081202/ap_on_re_as/as_thailand_political_unrest_206

 

I do hope the OP comes back and shares with us the outcome of their adventure.

 

Unfortunately, the protesters are not happy with the people who are running to replace the officials that have been thrown out so it may not be over yet. The best place to get all the news about this is on the Bangkok Post web site. We have been keeping up with all this as we just returned from Bangkok about a month ago after disembarking the Diamond.

[FritzG]

Here's another report I just saw on Comcast.

 

<<Thai airports to reopen after government falls

BANGKOK, Thailand — Thailand's prime minister was ousted Tuesday after weeks of protests closed the capital's airports, stranding 300,000 travelers. Protesters promised to lift their siege, and international flights were expected to resume Friday.>>

 

I'm sure it will seem like a long time until Friday for those who are trapped there, but at least it offers some hope.

[chrysalis]

Here's another report I just saw on Comcast.

 

<<Thai airports to reopen after government falls

BANGKOK, Thailand — Thailand's prime minister was ousted Tuesday after weeks of protests closed the capital's airports, stranding 300,000 travelers. Protesters promised to lift their siege, and international flights were expected to resume Friday.>>

 

I'm sure it will seem like a long time until Friday for those who are trapped there, but at least it offers some hope.

 

Yes, at least if offers some hope, but getting those 300,000 out, and then catching up will take a long time.

[Nylsor]

Things can easily go out of hand. Violence can erupt, and has already erupted.

 

If you are only pleasure-seeking, for a nice vacation, WHY bother to go to a place where potential hazzard could happen?

 

Unless a person has a MUST DO reason to visit Bangkok, why go? Why risk to have another episode like the current one?

 

Yeah, the tactics used by the protesters are common - tell this to the OP and the tens of thousands tourists / visitors who are stranded, not knowing when they can go home, it is of very little comfort and usefulness to them. Then for those who plan to go before the civil unrest escalates to this level since it started 3 to 4 months ago, why bother to go even a few months from now?

 

I dont know about others, I know for me and my family, we just want a pleasant trip, no reason to head to a locale where there are potential of civil upheaval, terrorist attack (such as Mumbai, or Middle East), and the like.

So you would advise that no-one ever visits New York again?

[Clutterlady]

So you would advise that no-one ever visits New York again?

 

Ouch......low blow;) I LOVE New York:)

[flhokie]

Unfortunately one article I read about the government being dissolved mentioned that, while the airport will be re-opening to cargo immediately, they do not plan to resume civilian flights until 12/15. If that is true, unless the US Government does something to get their citizens out (which they have not been doing) or they don't find an alternative way out, US Citizens might be stuck for quite a while longer. Maybe if there is space on one of the flights that the various countries have arranged for their citizens they could take some Americans (and then they find their own way from there), but that doesn't seem likely.

[Dorset Cruiser]

Heard on BBC News this evening that passenger flights will hopefully commence on Thursday, 4th December. Don't know if that applies to UK only or to everyone.

[Pam in CA]

Things can easily go out of hand. Violence can erupt, and has already erupted.

 

If you are only pleasure-seeking, for a nice vacation, WHY bother to go to a place where potential hazzard could happen?

Ouch! Obviously, you have omniscient foresight that few others do. After all, passengers have been boarding and disembarking in Bangkok for years without any problems, including those boarding the Diamond just a couple of days before this all happened.

 

First, I don't think people go to Bangkok or spend a few days post-cruise for "pleasure-seeking" but rather to explore and experience an interesting culture. I consider that educational, not pleasure-seeking.

 

Second, violence can happen ANYWHERE at any time, and not just outside the U.S. Heck, who'd think you could get killed going to Wal-Mart? That's not something I think about if I'm going there to buy a pair of socks or a bath mat but obviously, it can happen. Last October, as we were going to board our ship in Athens, there was a huge city-wide strike and demonstration that delayed many people from getting to the ship. It could have turned violent but how do you anticipate that? How do you plan for that? There are train strikes in Italy, bombings in London... it goes on and on. Where are you truly safe?

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Ouch! Obviously, you have omniscient foresight that few others do. After all, passengers have been boarding and disembarking in Bangkok for years without any problems, including those boarding the Diamond just a couple of days before this all happened.

 

First, I don't think people go to Bangkok or spend a few days post-cruise for "pleasure-seeking" but rather to explore and experience an interesting culture. I consider that educational, not pleasure-seeking.

 

Second, violence can happen ANYWHERE at any time, and not just outside the U.S. Heck, who'd think you could get killed going to Wal-Mart? That's not something I think about if I'm going there to buy a pair of socks or a bath mat but obviously, it can happen. Last October, as we were going to board our ship in Athens, there was a huge city-wide strike and demonstration that delayed many people from getting to the ship. It could have turned violent but how do you anticipate that? How do you plan for that? There are train strikes in Italy, bombings in London... it goes on and on. Where are you truly safe?

 

Pam,

I don't know if you saw my earlier post or not. I was wondering if you could clarify this issue for me.

 

In post #4 you said: "I'm sorry this is happening to you. Could you clarify whether you booked the post-cruise Princess hotel package (in which case they should be picking up the hotel cost);"

 

post #36 you said:"To the OP, it sounds like Princess is trying to do everything it can to keep you safe and re-booking your flights. As Toto says, you need to pay the expenses upfront and then submit your bills to your insurance."

 

I'm just trying to find out if Princess should be picking up the tab in this case.

 

In my eyes they shouldn't be, and your latter statement sounds more like what should be done.

 

Thanks for any light you can shed.:)

 

Bill

[Cruisin Bob]

Ouch! Obviously, you have omniscient foresight that few others do. After all, passengers have been boarding and disembarking in Bangkok for years without any problems, including those boarding the Diamond just a couple of days before this all happened.

 

First, I don't think people go to Bangkok or spend a few days post-cruise for "pleasure-seeking" but rather to explore and experience an interesting culture. I consider that educational, not pleasure-seeking.

 

Second, violence can happen ANYWHERE at any time, and not just outside the U.S. Heck, who'd think you could get killed going to Wal-Mart? That's not something I think about if I'm going there to buy a pair of socks or a bath mat but obviously, it can happen. Last October, as we were going to board our ship in Athens, there was a huge city-wide strike and demonstration that delayed many people from getting to the ship. It could have turned violent but how do you anticipate that? How do you plan for that? There are train strikes in Italy, bombings in London... it goes on and on. Where are you truly safe?

 

Educational, not pleasure seeking???? Do you think I can get a tax deduction for my cruising? Yes, I like to learn when I travel also, but I try to be honest with my self that it is a wonderful and very pleasurable experience.

 

OK, there is danger every where. But some places are worse than others. I do not think it is imprudent to avoid higher risk places.

 

The problem comes in identifying the high risk areas. Anecdotal evidence of I was there and it was pleasant or I was there and there was tragedy are not that useful.

 

Like it or not I think many people will avoid the middle east and many areas near the Indian ocean for some time to come. These areas are perceived as more dangerous and I think people have valid reasons for these perceptions even if these views are not perfectly founded.

 

Many will stick to areas like the med, Australia, and north american ports to name a few. Yes I know there can be train or plane bombings any where. Still I do not see me or many others crusing near Somalia any time soon.

[nho9504]

Educational, not pleasure seeking???? Do you think I can get a tax deduction for my cruising? Yes, I like to learn when I travel also, but I try to be honest with my self that it is a wonderful and very pleasurable experience..

 

Precise my point. Sight-seeing and learning local culture, are parts of the pleasure-seeking trip - A wonderful and very pleasurable experience, such as loaming the temples in Bangkok, going to a cooking demonstration, getting a taylor-made suit in Thai Silk - all very pleasurable.

 

I dont pretend I go for explorabion and education, which, would naturally come as part of the whole experience if a person pays any attention to the environment when on the trip. But I dont go for that particular purpose.

 

OK, there is danger every where. But some places are worse than others. I do not think it is imprudent to avoid higher risk places. ..

 

The problem comes in identifying the high risk areas. Anecdotal evidence of I was there and it was pleasant or I was there and there was tragedy are not that useful.

 

Like it or not I think many people will avoid the middle east and many areas near the Indian ocean for some time to come. These areas are perceived as more dangerous and I think people have valid reasons for these perceptions even if these views are not perfectly founded.

 

Many will stick to areas like the med, Australia, and north american ports to name a few. Yes I know there can be train or plane bombings any where. Still I do not see me or many others crusing near Somalia any time soon.

 

Another point well-made. The world is soooo big - there are definitely other places have lower risk for travellers than some high-risk regions - Egypt, for example, certainly carry much higher risk than, say, Peking, just to give an illustration. The examples can go on and on but I would not bother.

 

Sorry, Pam in CA, I do have a point to make with you.

 

It is easy sitting in front of your computer to tell people this and that, while you are not personally experiencing the turmoil and being trapped in a precarious situation, to talk about educational experiences, this and that. You would earn better respect, if you are in that situation and KNOW how to handle it, help yourself out of it, practically. Then post it on the board to give PRACTICAL ADVICE. Instead, I found some of your postings literally are misleading - such as the insurance coverage.

 

Have you ever heard about Force Majeure? It is on EVERY insurance policy. The Thailand situation definitely falls under that clause.

 

To be fair, I would give you and the board some of our background in relationship to Asia.

 

Bangkok is not an unknown place to us. We have been there several times, long before any cruiseline ever sail there. It is a vibrant city, full of vitality and bargains, exciting place to go, and convenient place to connect to Europe from Asia. However, under the current circumstances, it is not a good place to go because the on-going political turmoil.

 

I also happen to follow the Thailand situation much more closely than most of the cruisers here - not because we have a cruise planned, it is because we would have a Round the World land trip that would involve BKK as a stopover and a connection point. I also am able to receive daily news feed from Hong Kong and Southeast Asia, so am very up-todate on this. Let me say, it is enough to make us remove BKK from the itinerary completely, that means we also would not fly HKG-DXB (Dubai) because the Cathay Pacific flights HKG/DXB that have award seats, would make 2 stops - at BKK and BOM - (Mumbai) - 2 places I dont want to go any near. So that changes our plan of the RTW trip - instead of doing a RTW, now we will do a Circle Pacific, and use KUL (Kulua Lumpur) instead.

 

Do you realise flights between UPT the military airport, to KUL are booked solid for all classes till a month out? People are trying everything to get out. To give Malaysia Airlines full credit, they are increasing flights and use larger capacity planes to try their best to help people fly out to KUL so they can connect to flights to HKG and other places, so they can go home.

 

FYI, for Pam in CA, this is NOT the first time Thai is in political turmoil - but this is one of the most serious in recent years. In the past, the conflicts seldom escalated to this level as everybody knew the Thai economy depends on tourism. This time the upheaval has gone this far, it tells me that it would not be like in the past, it would be an ongoing confrontation and it seems some are determined to reach their goals, despite the costs the Thai people have to pay.

[nho9504]

We have been in Thailand many times long before any cruiseship even sailed to Bangkok.

 

Southeast Asia is not a new or exotic place to us.

 

I agree Thai people are lovely people, their religion is largely responsible for that.

 

As for Bali, as long as you dont stay at the western chain hotels, you would be safe. Bali has both Muslims and Buddhists. The Buddhists are peaceful lot. However, Indonesia as a whole, Muslims are the main stream, both in term of political power and population. You really need to know where to go in Bali in order to stay safe.

 

Personally, I dont want to stay in a hotel where the incoming cars must have mirrors stick underneath the car to see if there anything unusual (car bomb), and there are 2 to 3 layers of guards just to get in and out the hotels.

 

There is no place in this world that I feel is worth my life. Yes, you can lose your life in any kind of manner when travel, or just stay at home. However, a person can make educated guess, and decide which is high risk which is low risk based on one's own value system, and then decide how to act accordingly.

 

My purpose of posting on this thread, is I have seen too much misleading information and misleading posts, from some "regulars" and I do feel obligated to post my view points, because I am confident that I do know MORE than most of the cruisers here who just recently visit SE Asia or only been there once or twice.

 

Yes, as late as a few days ago, tourists are in and out Bangkok without any issue - that is the reason why there are 150,000 of them being stranded. I would say 90% of them have had 0 idea of this confrontation between the current government and the demonstrators is started back in Summer when the election scandal erupted.

 

As long as the current government is not overthrown, the situation continues to be touchy. Sure, you will never know WHEN another event like this could erupt again, but it is a high probability to me. There is already evidence that when things got ugly, how innocent people suffer. You can be brave or be ideologic (is there such a word?), and take the high road. I being the chicken type and much more pragmatic, I go places where such risk is of very low probability, or rather, where a civil upheaval to disrupt my trip of pleasure, would have near 0 chance to happen.

 

Yes, it is a "peaceful demonstration". I am sure those tens of thousands passengers cramped at UPT trying to fly out on rescue planes would rather not to have anything to do with that. Why would many governments send in their rescue planes to rescue their citizens, if this is simply a peaceful demonstration? It will pass, just wait it out, right? Au Contraire, there is real potential the event can morph to a violent one. Grenades have been thrown, if you have not had a chance to read news of past 2 days.

 

FYI, the demonstrators announced they would retreat from BKK. However, it would take at least 7 to 10 days before BKK can resume operation. All the IT system needs to be checked and the whole airport needs to be sweeped for obvious security reason.

 

Another FYI, TG, Thai International, has tried to resume its Transpac flight to US and back, via UPT, the military airport 2 hours away from Bangkok. US government shot it down, due to the extremely lack of security measure at the makeshift airport.

 

We have been to Thailand - Phuket, Pattaya, and Chiang Mai- 3 plus weeks all up

we have also been to Bali

Whilst I haven't read the whole postings on this I can tell you this - we thought the Thai people were lovely,

As were the Indonesians

Unfortunately in countries like this internal politics can easily alter the domestic situation and foreigners can be caught out, I feel very sorry for them and I am glad such a thing has never happened to us

 

Where do you go these days that is completely safe?

 

their protest is NON Violent but is Causing alot of disruption and unfortunately average Thai will suffer as a consequence in their daily lives from the scare off factor to incoming tourists,

It is difficult to know where it is safe to go these days,

Crazy people waste people in Burger restaurants in western countries,

planes crash,

Even ships are targeted by pirates.

If we stopped to wonder about each and every possible thing that could happen to us None fo us would go anywhere.

How Do you know when you book where and when the NEXT CIVIL UPHEAVEL will be??

[nho9504]

At least you noticed the difference-

I thought I'd get slammed for that but it wasn't meant as anything personal,

just an observation,

We find when in the USA we feel completely shut off from the Pacific region where we live

 

I hope you dont find it offensive as well - when we are in Australia and New Zealand, esp in NZ, we found we are completely shut off from the North America, and even Europe region.

 

Skynews seems to be the only source we could get from the limited satelliete subscription of the motels in NZ and not all motels have such subscription either.

 

Outside Auckland and Christchurch, when you are on the road, there are not a whole lot of motels to choose from, when we did our several circle islands trips - did it 2 times each on North Island and South Island.

 

Have you done this driving trip in South Island, NZ?

 

Christchurch to Dunedin to Invercargill to Queenstown to the Southern Alps, then along the west side thru Hokitika and Westport to the most Northwest tip of the South Island, from there go to Nelson and then the secondary roads to Blenheim, so you can overlook Picton and the marvelous channels between South and North Island. From Blenheim thru Kajkoura and then back to Christchurch? We did that in 2007. Though I would say, the drive from Christchurch to Queenstown is a waste. One should fly from Christchurch to Queenstown, and drive one-way back to Christchurch.

 

We did the Mount Cook passes crossing the middle of South Island in 2000 and a driving trip to the northern tip of North Island on the same trip. Another driving trip of North Island was done in 2003.

 

On all trips we were competely shut off from North America and Europe region - hardly any news on TV, and barely a few lines on newspaper.

 

So it works the same - each region of the world generally only concentrate on its own region, except in some metropolitan cities.

 

Interestingly enough, the New Zealanders we met on our trips, not a single one has made a trip in South Island like we did. In fact, we visited more towns in New Zealand than any of the folks there we met. I guess the NZders think the tourists are crazy people to drive all over the places when rental car at NZ costs easily over $100 a day.