Goodbye HAL

[cccole]

We found the same thing on our Thanksgiving cruise. I am hoping that it was because of three factors:

 

1. Thanksgiving, so more extended families onboard, which sooner or later wears the whole family out, so they start expressing their tiredness, anger, annoyance, family issues on everyone and anyone they come in contact with

 

2. The whole difference in demographics incited some of the long-time cruisers on board, who responded by becoming louder about how important THEY were, how THEIR needs were more important than those of "the masses", and how much better/superior and/or financially secure they were than "the masses"

 

3. Some REALLY deep discounts offered near the port city in order to sail full, attracting people who would not otherwise cruise. I think/hope that will change as the cruiselines adjust to the new economic realities and devise a number of strategies beyond "Here, take this cruise, it is cheaper than buying a turkey".

 

Not a day went by on our recent cruise that our jaws didn't drop open in shock at the behavior of some of the passengers on our cruise. If our next HAL cruise (not yet investigated or booked) is the same, we will be shopping around for another "cruise home". However, our NEXT cruise will NOT be over a holiday.

 

Thank you CowPrincess for identifying more than one reason for an unpleasant experience with fellow cruisers. It seems like there are as many reports of horrendous behavior by those who feel "entitled" as by those traveling as families, and those new to cruising. Cherie

[altosax]

We had it one night as an appetizer in the dining room on our first cruise on the Amsterdam in 2002. No doubt it wasn't the best caviar, but it was real caviar - and there was no extra charge.

 

 

Ruffled Feathers can be found in the Tamarind on some nights. It is a Chinese delicacy. Goes well with Shark's Fin soup.

[iancal]

Our experience is that it cuts across all socioeconomic groups. Worst behavavior that we have seen was from very experienced cruisers on Princess route. And I am only referring to outright rude behaviour-not social skills, dress, etc. Cruising is a bargain and may be even more so if the demand curve bottoms out at the same time as those new mega ships come into service. Like others have said, we purchase strictly on value-not price.

[Tampa Girl]

The majority of cabins are inside/outside.

 

Here are some of the p/p, per day prices ( exclusive of port/taxes and fuel surcharge) I am seeing, right now:

 

Maasdam $64

Eurodam $71

Westerdam $64

Zuiderdam $89

Veendam $64

Princendam $93

Zaandam $73

Amsterdam $83

Rotterdam $86

 

All cabins, on all ships, on all cruise lines, like everything, sell for as much as the market will bear, at the point of sale.

 

I am not a travel agent and CC rules do not allow me to mention the source.

 

Those prices, however, are very misleading. Generally, the Vista (Zuiderdam class) ships are much less expensive than the S or R class ships (Veendam, Amsterdam, etc.) Further, it depends on the itinerary and the particular time of the year. So . . I don't see where there pp/day are very informative. Would you not agree?

[hammybee]

Those prices, however, are very misleading. Generally, the Vista (Zuiderdam class) ships are much less expensive than the S or R class ships (Veendam, Amsterdam, etc.) Further, it depends on the itinerary and the particular time of the year. So . . I don't see where there pp/day are very informative. Would you not agree?

 

I used this only to illustrate that in most cases, the average p/p, per day price of a cruise is less than $100. The majority of all cruises sail the hyper competitive runs in the Caribbean and Mexico and Alaska. And timing is everything.

 

I also see insides for $80 p/p, per day for South America/Antartica and $65 p/p, per day for New Zealand in prime time. And a balcony can be had for less than $100 p/p, per day in Mexico.

 

Of course balconies and suites on R and S class ships are more costly than on the Vista Class because the Vista class has more of them. Demand for the higher end cabins on the R and S class continues, in most cases, continues to exceed demand.

 

There is no way we can reasonably expect the same out of cabin experience that once existed, when the majority of passengers paid substantially more for it, 15-20 years ago. Some semblance of that out of cabin experience still exists on the luxury cruise lines. All we have to do is pay multiples for it and often times, downgrade our cabin grade.

 

HAL could not sustain itself in the late 80's because it was not able to effectively compete. Passengers, at that time, wanted newer ships and cheaper cruise fares. And by golly, they got what they asked for.

 

Rather than compare to what what was, I compare it to the value that exists today. I could stay at the SD Holiday Inn for a week or sail on the Oosterdam for the same price and be fed , entertained and be transported somewhere new every day.

[CowPrincess]

Thank you CowPrincess for identifying more than one reason for an unpleasant experience with fellow cruisers. It seems like there are as many reports of horrendous behavior by those who feel "entitled" as by those traveling as families, and those new to cruising.

 

What bugs me about the "entitled" is that in other circumstances, they'd actually demonstrate the manners they were probably raised with. If the CEO of their company used a wheelchair, you can bet your butt the CEO would be allowed on the elevator. If the boss' wife spoke broken English, they'd not be making comments about her poor English. If there was a line up at their favorite restaurant back home, it is unlikely they'd be berating everyone around them from a similar socio-economic group, nor would they push past a little old lady to be further ahead in line.

 

Truly well-mannered people use their good manners all the time. Good manners are not situational. "Not knowing" is one thing (e.g., which fork to use). "Knowing" and not doing what you know is correct is completely unacceptable.

[martiniren]

SUITE LUNCHES:

 

We had one when we sailed on the Euroda and had one on the Veendam which we sailed on in November.

 

CHOCOLATE EXTRAVAGANZA:

It is no more....

Corporate made a decision to do away with the chocolate night because of declining attendance and has replaced it with a Lido Pool area Party in the evening. On the Veendam there was a live band and 1/2 of the pool area was a dance floor. On the other side was a snack and finger food desert layout with white and milk chocolate fountains, Not as elaborate as the extraaganza but adequate. We attended but have not made up our minds if we like the change or not.\

 

Ruth & Jim

 

We were on the Noordam recently (10/28/08 - 11/7/08) and there was, indeed, a Chocolate Extravaganza one night. It encircled the entire main pool area of the Lido Deck. It was wonderful!

[kryos]

kryos, seriously, I'm not gonna flame you. But I will disagree. The most obnoxious behaviour we saw was from people who HAD cruised before, who had NO problem spending, spending, spending, who were HAPPY to tell us they had 100 days or 55 days or whatever, as though that made them somehow special, as they then trompled over people to get to whatever THEY wanted, insulting the Filipino or Indonesian crew as they went along. I'm not going to give anyone a "laundry list" of occurences, I don't want to dwell on it (preferring to remember all the pleasant moments). But the issues we saw were not "class" or "income" related. I'm pretty sure they were all related to "classlessness" (as in "lacking manners") rather than "lacking income".

Okay, maybe on HAL you are right ... the situation is different. But right before my HAL cruise in September, I was on a four-night Carnival one. That cruise was relatively cheap, even though I was sailing with a group and probably paid more due to the group's special programming. But because that cruise was cheap ... as all cruises are getting cheaper and cheaper ... there was a whole different set of people on there. Not saying they were all bad, but there were certainly some ... loud, rude, a few who appeared to be drunk out of their minds ... you name it. It was such a relief after that cruise to get onboard the Statendam, where at least some semblance of sanity reigned.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

CHOCOLATE EXTRAVAGANZA:

It is no more....

Corporate made a decision to do away with the chocolate night because of declining attendance and has replaced it with a Lido Pool area Party in the evening. On the Veendam there was a live band and 1/2 of the pool area was a dance floor. On the other side was a snack and finger food desert layout with white and milk chocolate fountains, Not as elaborate as the extraaganza but adequate. We attended but have not made up our minds if we like the change or not.\

Just curious ... could this be something new with the seven-day cruises? Maybe HAL feels it is too much trouble to put on that event on their shorter cruises?

 

I only question this because we certainly had a very elaborate Chocolate Extravaganza on the Statendam during my 35-day Hawaii/South Pacific sailing ... along with a lot of other events that you probably don't see on the shorter cruises.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[cccole]

Okay, maybe on HAL you are right ... the situation is different. But right before my HAL cruise in September, I was on a four-night Carnival one. That cruise was relatively cheap, even though I was sailing with a group and probably paid more due to the group's special programming. But because that cruise was cheap ... as all cruises are getting cheaper and cheaper ... there was a whole different set of people on there. Not saying they were all bad, but there were certainly some ... loud, rude, a few who appeared to be drunk out of their minds ... you name it. It was such a relief after that cruise to get onboard the Statendam, where at least some semblance of sanity reigned.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

Aren't the 3-4 day cruises from any port and on any line considered "booze cruises?" We live in Southern California and would NEVER consider one unless we were willing to accept the reason that most are on board, which is to have a good time for not very much money. Possible exceptions might be the 3-4 day transition cruises to or from Vancouver. Cherie

[RevNeal]

I also see insides for $80 p/p, per day for South America/Antartica....

 

January 10, 2010, ms Veendam - CHEAPEST currently available inside cabin aboard the ship (MM category) is going for: $148.28 pp/pd double-occupancy, including all taxes and port fees (which you SHOULD include in such calculations, since you can't get aboard without paying them). Again, that's the CHEAPEST you can get aboard for this 20-day South-America/Antarctica Cruise (one which I have done before).

 

To find the average cost aboard the Veendam for this sailing (keeping in mind that the Penthouse goes for $22,215.60 pp, the S-Suites go for $10,215.60 pp, the least expensive A/B Verandah is $6615.60 pp, and the most expensive inside cabin is $3295.60 pp), one really should figure prices from the C-category outside cabin (this is as close to "average" as you're going to find aboard the Veendam for this sailing). The price for this cabin is: $214.28 pp/pd.

 

These figures come from HAL's website.

[hammybee]

January 10, 2010, ms Veendam - CHEAPEST currently available inside cabin aboard the ship (MM category) is going for: $148.28 pp/pd double-occupancy, including all taxes and port fees (which you SHOULD include in such calculations, since you can't get aboard without paying them). Again, that's the CHEAPEST you can get aboard for this 20-day South-America/Antarctica Cruise (one which I have done before).

 

I looked at 2009 and it's post final payment time.

 

1/24/09 $80 p/p, per day for H. BC is going for $103 p/p. and the PH is still available. There are many cabins for sale in almost all cabin grades.

 

Rock bottom for last year's cruise was, I think, about $150 p/p, inside guarantee, post final payment date.

 

Regardless, I agree that the average price for this intinerary

is substantially greater than $100 and substantially less than it was last year.

 

I do not think it reasonable to consider 2010 prices at face value because they are likely to drop well before final payment date, given the economy.

 

I disregard port charges and taxes is because it's a wash for HAL, not revenue. Know what I mean?

[hammybee]

But because that cruise was cheap ... as all cruises are getting cheaper and cheaper ... there was a whole different set of people on there. --rita

 

Carnival's 3-4 nighters are notorious for attracting a party crowd. They are the holdovers from Carnival's early days in the Fun Ship business.

 

While cheap, on a p/p, per day basis, prices are often higher than they are on a 7-10 day run on Carnival, HAL or Princess.

[mariner]

Yankeejim, trying to get back on topic.

 

Yeah, I get it. Deep-sixed HAL 2 years ago. Service dropped with the price.

 

Now, I've been cruising since the 1960s. In the worst of the economy in the 70s, the cruise lines still maintained service and product.

 

No one on here seems to remember Chandris (it's now Celebrity). They managed to sail at unbelievable per deims, but still maintained service etc.

 

So, despite thread drift, try Regent Yankee. If you drink, way cheaper.

 

The cruise lines are training a whole generation who will try it once and pass, for the most part.

 

Those who keep defending it never knew that they once managed to uphold their standards despite price.

[bepsf]

As for trying out Cunard ... that's on my list of things to do, too. I definitely want to try the QM2 and the QV and the coming QE.

 

So are you coming with Adele and me on the Elizabeth?

:D

[brucory]

We were on the Noordam recently (10/28/08 - 11/7/08) and there was, indeed, a Chocolate Extravaganza one night. It encircled the entire main pool area of the Lido Deck. It was wonderful!

 

We had a dessert/chocolate buffet one evening too, but it was not called the chocolate extravaganza, as it was before. It was advertised as a pool party and we just happened to pass by and saw all the marvelous desserts and the chocolate fountains etc.

 

:D:D:D

[Copper10-8]

We had a dessert/chocolate buffet one evening too, but it was not called the chocolate extravaganza, as it was before. It was advertised as a pool party and we just happened to pass by and saw all the marvelous desserts and the chocolate fountains etc.

 

:D:D:D

 

A smaller version of the chocolate extravaganza is now part of that pool party you mentioned and no longer promoted or scheduled by itself in the Lido restaurant