Daily "service charges" going up... wayyyy up

[Eeyoregon]

I truly don't mind paying gratuities on other cruiselines because I get the same staff every day of my cruise and there is a personal relationship that is built with the wait staff during the cruise.

 

But that is not the case on NCL which is why they charge the automatic gratuities otherwise their dining staff would get very little. You will never see the same wait staff on freestyle cruises. And our stateroom team was practically invisible...we saw them three times during our 7 night cruise. Ice wasn't kept in the bucket, no towel animals, chocolates on our pillows only part of the time and so on. Why not the extra touches? Because they know they will get their tips regardless of performance.

 

I think freestyle cruising should include freestyle tipping! When you add in hundreds of extra dollars for automatic tipping you no longer have a very affordable cruise. I personally think NCL is shooting their staff in the foot. I always tip WAY more on lines that leave it up to me but when I have no choice in the matter they aren't getting a penny more.

[CC Help Michell]

I truly don't mind paying gratuities on other cruiselines because I get the same staff every day of my cruise and there is a personal relationship that is built with the wait staff during the cruise.

 

But that is not the case on NCL which is why they charge the automatic gratuities otherwise their dining staff would get very little. You will never see the same wait staff on freestyle cruises. And our stateroom team was practically invisible...we saw them three times during our 7 night cruise. Ice wasn't kept in the bucket, no towel animals, chocolates on our pillows only part of the time and so on. Why not the extra touches? Because they know they will get their tips regardless of performance.

 

I think freestyle cruising should include freestyle tipping! When you add in hundreds of extra dollars for automatic tipping you no longer have a very affordable cruise. I personally think NCL is shooting their staff in the foot. I alwyas tip WAY more on lines that leave it up to me but when I have no choice in the matter they aren't getting a penny more.

 

I think you are entitled to your opinion. I also completely disagree with it. NCL is hardly the only line with pooled tips -- the CCL lines have them, along with a number of others. NCL is also not the only line to offer a version of "Freestyle" dining -- on HAL last summer we never had the same waitstaff twice (we had As You Wish dining).

 

It's clear from your post that NCL's "style" isn't yours, which raises the question -- why are you posting here? There are still lines that offer the old envelope style tipping, and that appears to be much more your preference.

 

I also would add that on ANY line you have "hundreds of dollars" (well, between $100 and $200 for a couple on a 7 day cruise, anyway) of expected tips, regardless of whether it's Freestyle or not. It adds a lot to ANY cruise and experienced cruisers know the expectations and budget for them. That expectation has nothing to do with pooled tips or auto grats -- it's been part of cruising since long before I took my first <mumble> years ago. How is that a slam on NCL?

[johnql]

But that is not the case on NCL which is why they charge the automatic gratuities otherwise their dining staff would get very little. You will never see the same wait staff on freestyle cruises. And our stateroom team was practically invisible...we saw them three times during our 7 night cruise. Ice wasn't kept in the bucket, no towel animals, chocolates on our pillows only part of the time and so on. Why not the extra touches? Because they know they will get their tips regardless of performance.

I think this is the biggest misconception concerning tipping on Freestyle cruises.

 

Automatic tipping only means that the money is automatically debited to your account. It does NOT mean that every staff member automatically receives an equal share of the pool. Each staff member still has plenty of incentive to perform well in order to receive a higher percentage of the pool, receive better work assignments, receive more time off, receive promotions, and ultimately to keep his job. This doesn't even include an individual's personal pride and desire to do his job well. Each worker is assessed by superiors and by passengers (through comment cards). His share of the pool - in fact, his keeping his job - is based on this assessment, so there is plenty of incentive for performing well.

[petesweet]

Just out of curiosity - does anyone know if other lines messing with their 'service charge' amounts? We're now looking from NCL to other lines since the new rules will amount to almost $600 that we hadn't banked on previously....

 

I don't think my upcoming cruises on RCCL have any changes in the "suggested" tipping; however, I would be amenable to shelling out more. No doubt other cruiselines will follow.

[Monaco02]

I have no problem paying the increased service charge amount, however, I really wish NCL would allow you to use your OBC to go towards it, or cover it if you have enough. We always end up getting OBC from TA or just from a booking special and it would be nice to use it for the service charge. We've always done this on HAL, it really helps keep your bill down!

[petesweet]

I completely agree with you. Every time I see someone post that they think autotip leads to a decline in service, I shake my head. I often wonder if they slack off on their own jobs if nobody is offering them a bonus for doing their best. I think we all tend to perceive others based on our own outlooks and motivations. Why would you assume someone else thinks that way if you don't yourself? When I have a job to do, I do it to the best of my abilities, regardless of compensation or potential for tips, so I expect the same from others. As a result, I base my opinion about the service on NCL ships on my actual experience - which has been exemplary. I have never received poor service on any NCL ship and in fact, most staff I have encountered have been what I would call excellent or better. I should add that I do believe that there are some employees who do slack off - like a student that does only enough homework to get a 'C' when a little extra effort would earn an 'A'. I just think that the slackers are in the minority and that it's extremely insulting to assume that an entire group of people are fundamentally lazy and mercenary and won't do their best unless there is a possibility of additional compensation.

 

So well said!!

[opshannon]

I completely agree with you. Every time I see someone post that they think autotip leads to a decline in service, I shake my head. I often wonder if they slack off on their own jobs if nobody is offering them a bonus for doing their best.

 

Your premise is faulty. A better question might be: if you put two people in the same job, one who worked for salary and one who worked for commission (tips), who would have the incentive to work harder? That's the situational difference among cruise lines with a traditional tip structure and NCL.

 

Even if a crew member on another line gets stiffed by a passenger at the end of a voyage, they didn't know they were going to get stiffed, so they worked very hard to make the impression necessary to earn the biggest tip they could. The fact is, the majority of the people they served will present them with tips at the end of the cruise, either at the base level or higher. An NCL employee might receive an extra tip for extra good service. The likelihood is diminished, though, by the service charge because most people know that they "gratuity" is auto-deducted. The fact is, the majority of the people they serve will not present them with tips at the end of the cruise, no matter how good their service is.

 

This is why NCL's service is not up to par with the other major cruise lines. I'm not saying it's bad; it's just not as good.

[CC Help Michell]

Your premise is faulty. A better question might be: if you put two people in the same job, one who worked for salary and one who worked for commission (tips), who would have the incentive to work harder? That's the situational difference among cruise lines with a traditional tip structure and NCL.

 

I think your perspective is faulty. A more humane and dignified attitude would be to say "whether for discretionary tips or pooled auto gratuities, these people are doing a job I wouldn't want to do and thankfully don't have to.... I'm glad to show my appreciation with the cash they so richly deserve, however it's paid." Or perhaps this is some kind of strange ritual in which cash is offered to the crew as if it were fish to performing seals, and only those seals who jump through the highest hoops are rewarded?

 

By the way, "cruiselines with a traditional tip structure" are scarce as hens' teeth these days -- virtually all of them now have some version of auto grats and tip pools, or extremely high price tags and no tipping permitted.

[time2cruise1]

Your premise is faulty. A better question might be: if you put two people in the same job, one who worked for salary and one who worked for commission (tips), who would have the incentive to work harder? That's the situational difference among cruise lines with a traditional tip structure and NCL.

 

Even if a crew member on another line gets stiffed by a passenger at the end of a voyage, they didn't know they were going to get stiffed, so they worked very hard to make the impression necessary to earn the biggest tip they could. The fact is, the majority of the people they served will present them with tips at the end of the cruise, either at the base level or higher. An NCL employee might receive an extra tip for extra good service. The likelihood is diminished, though, by the service charge because most people know that they "gratuity" is auto-deducted. The fact is, the majority of the people they serve will not present them with tips at the end of the cruise, no matter how good their service is.

 

This is why NCL's service is not up to par with the other major cruise lines.

 

You could not be more wrong. You assume the tip pool is shared equally. In fact the share is determined by the the rating of the employee. That rating is in part determined by the feedback by us the passengers. The harder you work the the higher you move up on the tip pool shares.

Before they went to a service charge NCL was at risk of losing all there best crew. Since there was no chance to bond with passengers most passengers found it easy to walk off the ship and stiff the staff. Without the service charge Freestyle would collapse and a great cruise option would be lost. It is not perfect but it is the only option to keep freestyle for those that enjoy it. If it does not work for you find a traditional line where you can still show up the last night with the envelope. Nothing wrong with that just another option.

[mbisson]

This is why NCL's service is not up to par with the other major cruise lines. I'm not saying it's bad; it's just not as good.

 

Aren't most (or a least several) of the other major cruise lines doing auto tipping now? (not an accusation, just a question)

[opshannon]

Aren't most (or a least several) of the other major cruise lines doing auto tipping now? (not an accusation, just a question)

 

People here keep claiming it's so. I was on RCI in March and that wasn't the case.

[opshannon]

I think your perspective is faulty. A more humane and dignified attitude would be to say "whether for discretionary tips or pooled auto gratuities, these people are doing a job I wouldn't want to do and thankfully don't have to.... I'm glad to show my appreciation with the cash they so richly deserve, however it's paid." Or perhaps this is some kind of strange ritual in which cash is offered to the crew as if it were fish to performing seals, and only those seals who jump through the highest hoops are rewarded?

 

By the way, "cruiselines with a traditional tip structure" are scarce as hens' teeth these days -- virtually all of them now have some version of auto grats and tip pools, or extremely high price tags and no tipping permitted.

 

My perspective is exactly that, mine. As far as my original post about this issue, the premise that people who are working hard in a salaried job (not on a ship, but any job-that was the premise) somehow prove that tip based cruising is not as good as an auto-deduct system is in fact, as I've demonstrated, faulty. We can go around and around about the level of service on different cruise lines, but my post's truth holds regardless of anyone's opinion. Someone working on commission will (and must) work harder than someone working the same job but paid a set salary if they hope to make any decent money whatsoever.

 

And thanks for the accusation of a lack of humanity based on my knowledge of the way human beings behave in the face of economic interests.

[mmceachn]

I cruised Costa and Princess this past year, and NCL several times prior.

All had auto-gratuities.

I found it very convenient and brought cash to tip extra here and there.

 

I have gotten exemplary service on NCL, Costa and Princess.

[mbisson]

People here keep claiming it's so. I was on RCI in March and that wasn't the case.

 

Thanks-this thread got me to doing a little searching. I found that CC itself looked into this in the mid part of last year. Things may have changed some since then, but I found this:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=266

 

It does seem that several of the mainstream lines do add auto tips. I was surprised to see that Cunard does as well.

[rskalko]

Cunard is owned by Carnival and adopts the standard auto-tipping as well...

 

I agreed with another poster... I thought we'd reached a common ground? The crew deserves a better salary and for the moment that comes in part through the service charges, however these should be adviertised in a little more upfront way than is the case currently so that new cruisers are not hit with a surprise when they go to disembark....

[meiyakim]

I also disagree with mandatory tipping. On our DCL cruise last year we had 5 of us. I double tipped our room steward not becuase of how hard he worked (which he did) but he was so genuinly nice and happy that it touched me. I'm sorry but washing other peoples linens, picking up dirty kleenexes would give me a sour attitude in 5 minutes. So to see someone do it day in and day out with a genuine smile it was amazing. However our dining server started out the 1st 2 nights very exciting and happy to see us but after that he had a major attitude problem. For example when taking your order he'd be looking around at other people impatiently. We did have grandma grandpa 3 kids 1 of which was a baby and 2 adults so I know we weren't the easiest table (and we were always late to our assigned seating!!!) but we were the guests. When it came time to tip him I did not tip him extra and it all had to do with attitude not efficiency. Maybe that's a poor way to judge worthiness of extra tips but that's how I do it. And I like to do it without being told too.

[dtiger]

I think it's good they will now be charging kids over 3 the same amount as they use as many services as adults and it's only fair.

 

The crew works hard for their money.

[CanadianTwosome]

Your premise is faulty. A better question might be: if you put two people in the same job, one who worked for salary and one who worked for commission (tips), who would have the incentive to work harder? That's the situational difference among cruise lines with a traditional tip structure and NCL.

 

Even if a crew member on another line gets stiffed by a passenger at the end of a voyage, they didn't know they were going to get stiffed, so they worked very hard to make the impression necessary to earn the biggest tip they could. The fact is, the majority of the people they served will present them with tips at the end of the cruise, either at the base level or higher. An NCL employee might receive an extra tip for extra good service. The likelihood is diminished, though, by the service charge because most people know that they "gratuity" is auto-deducted. The fact is, the majority of the people they serve will not present them with tips at the end of the cruise, no matter how good their service is.

 

This is why NCL's service is not up to par with the other major cruise lines. I'm not saying it's bad; it's just not as good.

 

So because you believe that the bottom line for 'the majority of people' is the almighty dollar (as opposed to pride or integrity), my premise is faulty? Opinion is opinion. You have yours and I have mine. When forming one, we tend to base our beliefs on our own personal experience, and outlook, and I'm ecstatically happy that mine is not as cynical as yours!! I'm wondering how your perception of people as money-driven mercenaries explains the tireless efforts of volunteers?

 

There are slackers all over. I doubt a slacker would accept a commission job. On the other hand, someone who is a hard worker, takes pride in their work, and takes their responsibilities seriously will succeed in either a salaried or commissioned position.

[Brad1185]

The problem with NCL is not the amount, its if you have bad service there is nothing you can do about it. The service charge stands and you cannot lower it.

[ohioNCLcruiser]

The problem with NCL is not the amount, its if you have bad service there is nothing you can do about it. The service charge stands and you cannot lower it.

 

If you have problems NCL's policy is you need to give them a chance to correct the problem first. If you really have issues after the steps placed to fix it then of course you can adjust them.

[terrymtex01]

So again I ask... those who think auto-tipping is wrong or leads to bad service.. why are you not booking with other cruise lines? No one is forcing you to book with cruise lines that have auto-tipping.

 

Also.. someone asked about the crew getting 100% of the amount Pax pay in. They do not. Some where on NCL's website it says that a % of the money goes into a fund to assist disabled workers or something like that. It sounded like their version of Social Security, ever how they worded it.

[NevadaHiRoller]

They earn every dollar and a few more.

 

Some do, not all.

[smeyer418]

...

Also.. someone asked about the crew getting 100% of the amount Pax pay in. They do not. Some where on NCL's website it says that a % of the money goes into a fund to assist disabled workers or something like that. It sounded like their version of Social Security, ever how they worded it.

This is only true on NCL America where the auto tip is used to pay for time off- on NCL(not America) every penny goes to the on ship crew on every cruise. The problem with the NCL website is that it combines the answer for both NCL America and the other NCL ships where the info is considerably different.

[smeyer418]

The problem with NCL is not the amount, its if you have bad service there is nothing you can do about it. The service charge stands and you cannot lower it.

This isn't accurate. If you have a service problem the rule is you have to report it. If you feel its uncorrected you may lower the daily charge as you see fit. I hesitate to say this but in reality since there are so few really dedicated cheapos the reality on most NCL cruises if you are one of the very few who are so dedicated to lowering it, they just let you, in violation of the rule.

[Rockwife]

I also disagree with mandatory tipping. On our DCL cruise last year we had 5 of us. I double tipped our room steward not becuase of how hard he worked (which he did) but he was so genuinly nice and happy that it touched me. I'm sorry but washing other peoples linens, picking up dirty kleenexes would give me a sour attitude in 5 minutes. So to see someone do it day in and day out with a genuine smile it was amazing. However our dining server started out the 1st 2 nights very exciting and happy to see us but after that he had a major attitude problem. For example when taking your order he'd be looking around at other people impatiently. We did have grandma grandpa 3 kids 1 of which was a baby and 2 adults so I know we weren't the easiest table (and we were always late to our assigned seating!!!) but we were the guests. When it came time to tip him I did not tip him extra and it all had to do with attitude not efficiency. Maybe that's a poor way to judge worthiness of extra tips but that's how I do it. And I like to do it without being told too.

 

Your family of five was *always* late to your assigned dining time and you seriously wonder why your server had an attitude?!? Really?

 

See, this is exactly why auto tipping is necessary- because of people like you who think making peoples' jobs harder should be rewarded with a smile and good cheer.