Carnival Dropped the Ball when guy died.

[alphakitty]

Interesting article ...much has been said about medical facilities (or lack thereof) on a cruise ship. Doctors are all independent contractors and as such could be good or bad. I've heard many stories of poor response time from crew/medical staff, however as a previous poster said, time seems to drag when waiting in an emergency.

 

Consider these factors: from http://www.consumeraffairs.com/travel/cruise_safety.html

 

* Once on the high seas, it is seldom practical for cruise ships to turn back in a medical emergency; helicopter evacuation is extremely expensive and useful only if the patient is adequately stabilized by the shipboard staff.

* Most shipboard infirmaries are set up to handle sunburn and seasickness and may or may not be able to deal with a serious illness or injury, even though heart attacks are the most frequent cause of death at sea.

* Infirmaries are usually staffed by doctors who are not licensed in the United States. Regulation of shipboard medical care is largely non-existent. Most cruise lines have no formal procedure for reviewing doctors' work.

* Doctors and nurses are independent contractors, not employees. Thus, the cruise lines are generally not legally liable for their actions.

* There is no international oversight of medical care because martime law does not require cruise ships to provide medical care for passengers, only for the crew.

[jakieemma]

There should be AED defibrillators all over that ship, accesible to anyone at any time. Early defibrillation is the only way people like this have a chance...that said.

 

In my experience, people who drop, like this guy...either come right back or, no matter what you do, expire. It happens more often than you think and there is almost always an underlying myopathy or strong family history.

 

Early defib. would be the only chance he had...

 

Also...moving this guy off of the court would prevent some serious burns to his back. I had a guy collapse while playing basketball in the summer on a local park BB court. The guy ended up surviving but suffered from bad burns to his back after laying on a super hot court for 15 minutes.:eek:

[zqvol]

There should be AED defibrillators all over that ship, accesible to anyone at any time. Early defibrillation is the only way people like this have a chance...that said.

 

In my experience, people who drop, like this guy...either come right back or, no matter what you do, expire. It happens more often than you think and there is almost always an underlying myopathy or strong family history.

 

Early defib. would be the only chance he had...

 

Also...moving this guy off of the court would prevent some serious burns to his back. I had a guy collapse while playing basketball in the summer on a local park BB court. The guy ended up surviving but suffered from bad burns to his back after laying on a super hot court for 15 minutes.:eek:

 

I am not meaning to slam you but I don't think that anyone who was not there the entire time this situation took to resolve itself has any idea what happened or how long it took for any particular thing to occur.

 

I can almost guarantee you that the person in question had help much quicker than if the situation had occurred on land. When waiting on the paramedics time seems to drag forever. While I wasn't there I can bet that help was to him quicker than it would have been anywhere on land other than in a hospital or doctors office and the help that got there was probably better trained than what would have seen him in the first 10 minutes on land.

 

It is perfectly OK to feel sorry for the individual but face it, help is not close when you are on land either, and nature does to us what it wants when it wants and sometimes no matter what happens we can't change it.

[jakieemma]

I am not meaning to slam you but I don't think that anyone who was not there the entire time this situation took to resolve itself has any idea what happened or how long it took for any particular thing to occur.

 

I can almost guarantee you that the person in question had help much quicker than if the situation had occurred on land. When waiting on the paramedics time seems to drag forever. While I wasn't there I can bet that help was to him quicker than it would have been anywhere on land other than in a hospital or doctors office and the help that got there was probably better trained than what would have seen him in the first 10 minutes on land.

 

It is perfectly OK to feel sorry for the individual but face it, help is not close when you are on land either, and nature does to us what it wants when it wants and sometimes no matter what happens we can't change it.

 

I'm not sure what you are talking about..:confused:

 

I mentioned that people like this either come right back or die...I never said anything about the care he was given or how fast the response was.

 

As far as what happened to him...I can almost guarantee it would be a cardiac event, most likely he went into an erratic ventricular rhythm and dropped. Yes, he could have had another problem, but other problems would be obvious to the responders and it didn't say anything like that in the report.

[VolzCruiser]

It is interesting to me how or why people would post second or third-hand rumors and then use that information to severely criticize the cruise ship staff or anyone else.

My wife and children were just a few feet away from the basketball court when this occurred. Within seconds of the young man's collapse and the first yell for "help", staff were sprinting to his aid. While my wife didn't really pay attention to when the medical staff arrived, she said that it was within a few minutes and that CPR was started. She didn't see a debibrillator, but she said she was more interested in getting out of the way rather than observing the situation, so she came down to the restaurant to join me (where I was watching the football game).

 

In conclusion, I feel quite certain that the medical attention this man received on this cruise was far superior to what he would have received had he been playing basketball at the local YMCA. So all energy should be used in prayer for his family, his band, and his friends, rather than unwarranted criticism.

 

Thank you for clearing this up.

[dac5609]

I am an Emergency room physician in Florida. I was on the ship where this event took place. I was not on deck when it happened, but several people i was cruising with were. The response time was so slow that a member of my party went all the way to our cabin in the 4th floor to try to find me to see if i could help. I was not in the room at the time. He says that he went back up to the Lido deck where the incident took place and says that even then the physician had not arrived. I spoke to numerous other people i had met on the ship and everyone felt that the response time was horrible. I absolutely cannot believe how poorly this situation was treated.

I am also curious why there are not automated defibrillators throught the vessels. Is this normal? I will say that i was impressed with the other passengers who were willing to help. Apparently they were the only ones that seemed at all concerned. Very upsetting!!

[kyrisong1]

I would like to take back what I said earlier, the man needed an MRI, not an XRay, sorry I was tired last night :-)

I believe they do have simple XRay equipment.

Also to Alpha, I do not believe that Carnival or any other large company would staff their medical with staff that was not skilled or subpar, that is opening themselves up to lawsuits, and medical lawsuits are a BIG deal.

I just can't see a company not protecting themselves, they hire dozens of lawyers to make sure they are protected in every way, this is a no brainer. And I'm not just speaking about Carnival but ANY of the big lines out there.

JMO

Cheers, Carole

[LHP]

On another note....

 

the OP should realize that (as human beings) .... not every situation is going to handled the same way ...even on the very same ship.

 

So to exclude an entire cruise line based on what may (or may not) have been a slow response (since we have gotten a couple of folks who were also there and who give exact opposite reports) .... will guarantee that eventually the OP will never cruise...because it could happen on any cruise line on any ship at any time. As unfortunate as it is....no cruise line or cruise ship is going to get it perfect every time.

 

I do find it interesting that the OP is basing his "decision" on rumor (by his own admission) and is slandering a cruise line based on this "rumor". I hope his job performance is never treated in this manner...something tells me they would not like being slandered based on rumor.

[VolzCruiser]

Amazing another one hit wonder has made a post

[jakieemma]

I would like to take back what I said earlier, the man needed an MRI, not an XRay, sorry I was tired last night :-)

I believe they do have simple XRay equipment.

 

After seeing what carnival charges for a visit of nausea, I can't imagine what they would charge for an MRI..:eek:

[pc911965]

I was on that cruise also and it took them forever to get there and they were not running. When he was playing basketball he was really sweating a lot and I think a lot of people thought that they had a heartattack. I do not believe that the medical staff reacted fast enough. What a shame.:mad:

[0rly]

I was on this cruise too and it appeared that staff was almost immediately giving attention once alerted. I thought the medical staff showed up in what seems adequate time since they were coming from near the bottom of the ship.

[Dr. Jack Daniels]

Amazing another one hit wonder has made a post

 

What does that have to do with Carnival's incompetent response?

 

Whether the OP has 1 post or 10,000 posts has nothing to do with Carnival's poor response.

 

I get so sick of hearing about post count.

 

Dr. Jack

[tedjazz]

It is interesting to me how or why people would post second or third-hand rumors and then use that information to severely criticize the cruise ship staff or anyone else.

My wife and children were just a few feet away from the basketball court when this occurred. Within seconds of the young man's collapse and the first yell for "help", staff were sprinting to his aid. While my wife didn't really pay attention to when the medical staff arrived, she said that it was within a few minutes and that CPR was started. She didn't see a debibrillator, but she said she was more interested in getting out of the way rather than observing the situation, so she came down to the restaurant to join me (where I was watching the football game).

 

In conclusion, I feel quite certain that the medical attention this man received on this cruise was far superior to what he would have received had he been playing basketball at the local YMCA. So all energy should be used in prayer for his family, his band, and his friends, rather than unwarranted criticism.

 

Amazing another one hit wonder has made a post

 

Yeap...

[code_d]

Horrible stuff! This is not good nor right. I truly believe the doctors on ships are not qualified and are doctor "rejects" from the real world where they couldn't make it in their own practices. I think they are second rate doctors and most of them are from other countries.

Is that from 'a feeling?' or knowledge? How do you know what qualifications the doctors have? Statements like this are just inflammatory and with out bases. Soon some think what someone has to say is truth and tell others. Thus myths form. The ships are floating temp. cities that have all the problems any permament city has. Do the ships have the equipment of a hospital? No. But they are far more that first aid centers. I talk from experience with my DW that was taken down for an allergic reaction. It is like a mini hospital there. They train for fast response regularly. Some people don't make it, and probably would not have in a hospital as well. Some people do make it. It is a risk we take when cruising, knowing that advanced care is miles/hours away most of the time. A number of ships have two doctors and nurses. CCL definately does what it can to make sure its passangers are safe, to do otherwise quite frankly is bad business. So yes you will hear the stories of people that had bad experiences-thus they blame CCL, and stories of those that had good results-they praise CCL. There are good doctors and bad doctors in hospitals. On a cruise the doctor does not have a lab to send tests out to or consult with specialist on hand or get an MRI. But to make comments that they are 'rejects' is just wrong.

[VolzCruiser]

What does that have to do with Carnival's incompetent response?

 

Whether the OP has 1 post or 10,000 posts has nothing to do with Carnival's poor response.

 

I get so sick of hearing about post count.

 

Dr. Jack

 

I can completely see where you are coming from with the remarks about first time posters. It can get old for some people. It just seems that this thread has a larger than normal amount of first time posters both for and against Carnival's handling of this event.

[momofzeke]

I was on that cruise also and it took them forever to get there and they were not running. When he was playing basketball he was really sweating a lot and I think a lot of people thought that they had a heartattack. I do not believe that the medical staff reacted fast enough. What a shame.:mad:

 

This is an interesting post, considering what you posted on another thread:

 

I was on this ship and I did not know that there was a lady that died? What happened? I also did not know that they air lifted the guy off. Did you see this or was it a rumor?

[Dee777]

This is probably a more accurate account as to what "really" occured. Being a firefighter/paramedic, I can attest to one thing....time seems to grow when in an emergency. Meaning, what seemed to some as "quite a few minutes", was probably a very short time. There are numerous things to take into account here...most, if not all, of which we will never have answers too. What really happened to the young man, he could have been dead before he hit the ground? Did he have underlying conditions that he did or did not know about? None of these are Carnival's fault...

 

 

Just saying...

 

My daughter is a firefighter/paramedic too, and she says the same thing. Seconds can feel like minutes, minutes like hours, especially to observers. Bystanders will comment, "Why isn't he/she coming around? Why aren't you DOING anything?" when in fact, about 30 seconds has elapsed from the moment of their arrival... And I know from first hand experience, when you are waiting for help to arrive, it just seems like it will never get there.

 

My condolences to the family and friends of this young man.

[bobsfamily]

I am an Emergency room physician in Florida. I was on the ship where this event took place. I was not on deck when it happened, but several people i was cruising with were. The response time was so slow that a member of my party went all the way to our cabin in the 4th floor to try to find me to see if i could help. I was not in the room at the time. He says that he went back up to the Lido deck where the incident took place and says that even then the physician had not arrived. I spoke to numerous other people i had met on the ship and everyone felt that the response time was horrible. I absolutely cannot believe how poorly this situation was treated.

I am also curious why there are not automated defibrillators throught the vessels. Is this normal? I will say that i was impressed with the other passengers who were willing to help. Apparently they were the only ones that seemed at all concerned. Very upsetting!!

 

I would take what you were saying as good IF YOU WERE ACTUALLY THERE! How many times as a ERP has someone told you about how bad something went and you were there and knew the opposite? Remember how time slows in emergencies.

[Flash4me]

There is a reason our Court System will not allow ordinary opinions and second-hand statements...they are extremely unreliable.

 

To condemn Carnival based upon such opinions and second-hand statements is just plain wrong.

 

Just the facts, please.

[tedjazz]

There is a reason our Court System will not allow ordinary opinions and second-hand statements...they are extremely unreliable.

 

To condemn Carnival based upon such opinions and second-hand statements is just plain wrong.

 

Just the facts, please.

 

If ordinary opinion and second-hand statements are the standard, I guess we better shut these boards down right now then.

 

Just sayin' ;)

[bobsfamily]

If ordinary opinion and second-hand statements are the standard, I guess we better shut these boards down right now then.

 

Just sayin' ;)

 

Funny.... but for this case it's true

[jayesouthworth]

On the Elation, DH got a severe ear infection both inside and outside. He went to the ship's doctor, and he gave DH some antibiotics and pain killers. I felt that he got good care and was taken care of appropriately. Also, a lady came in who had fallen down, and she got an xray. Her foot was broken. They took her to the hospital, and a Carnival employee waited there while she got treatment at the hospital. I felt the doctor and Carnival did the right thing as well.

 

I would like to know the full details of what happened with the man playing basketball. Second and third party information is not always the most accurate.

 

/just saying

[alphakitty]

I would like to take back what I said earlier, the man needed an MRI, not an XRay, sorry I was tired last night :-)

I believe they do have simple XRay equipment.

Also to Alpha, I do not believe that Carnival or any other large company would staff their medical with staff that was not skilled or subpar, that is opening themselves up to lawsuits, and medical lawsuits are a BIG deal.

I just can't see a company not protecting themselves, they hire dozens of lawyers to make sure they are protected in every way, this is a no brainer. And I'm not just speaking about Carnival but ANY of the big lines out there.

JMO

Cheers, Carole

 

kyrie..the thing is the company is protected by only hiring independent contractors. The company is not responsible for non employees actions or their lack of it.

I don't think the Supreme Court has heard the case yet, though one is pending on this very issue.

[kyrisong1]

After seeing what carnival charges for a visit of nausea, I can't imagine what they would charge for an MRI..:eek:

LOL jakie, I mean they sent him to the hospital in port for the MRI, they don't have MRI's on board.

A trick I learned really early on, go to your doc or call him and tell him your cruising and get some zofran or phenergan before you go, it'll save tons in on board charges, I hear they are very expensive.

I carry, tylenol, benedryl (which most nurses do carry and I would have been popping to my kid with the sun reaction right away) Phenergan, zofran, meclizine, Cortizone cream.

Most things you can treat for yourself.

Cheers, Carole