Chair Hogs

[paulred]

Chair hogs are a nuisance not only on cruise ships, but at any resort where well located chairs are scarce. There may be rules, but managements are loath to enforce them because the hogs are also paying guests, and they often bray louder than the more polite ones.

There are ways to control this problem. Here are some suggestions. Feel free to add more, as a longer thread may attract the right attention.

 

First, to save a chair for any length of time, one should at least occupy it first. A sandals tossed onto a chair at 7:30 a.m. is not a sign of occupancy, its just litter. A book so tossed is just literati !. All that is required is a sign prohibiting this, and one person on duty from 7 to 9, and this will kill the early morning, save and go crowd.

 

Most ships have a 30 minute rule. Its quite reasonable to save your chair when you go for a quick dip, a snack, or to the bathroom. ( and we hope you washed your hands after). Any longer is hog heaven.

Its not always easy to keep track of time, so why not try the French parking disc approach. Each chair has a small disk attached with a clock face and two hands. When you leave, you set the time. Anyone can see when your 30 minutes are up.

 

Here’s the good part: If you try to extend your time by fibbing on your time ( i.e. showing your leave time at 9:30 when its only 9:00.) anyone can see, and the saving time is now invalid. Call a deck attendant and he can be confident about removing stuff and seating the later guest. he has no good excuse to refuse your request to have the chair vacated.

Any other suggestions?

[cantwait2cruize]

I don't understand why chair hogs are a problem. I have been on 9 cruises and never had any problems finding a chair. People solve the problem, remove the crap from the chair and sit down and enjoy yourselves:D When the person comes back and asked about their chairs......just say they were empty!:p

[paul929207]

I don't understand why chair hogs are a problem. I have been on 9 cruises and never had any problems finding a chair. People solve the problem, remove the crap from the chair and sit down and enjoy yourselves:D When the person comes back and asked about their chairs......just say they were empty!:p

I agree. If there is stuff on a chair for over 30 minutes, it must have been forgotten. Send it to the lost and found and make yourself comfortable.

[BroncosFan2010]

I will be taking the towels off of empty chairs and helping myself if there seems to be a problem with chair hogs on my upcoming cruise. I will not feel bad about it either. There are more important things to worry about on a vacation, like having a good time!

[Karysa]

I have the million dollar idea! They should rig the chairs so that they have a timer that after 30 minutes of not having say 30 lbs on it a light goes on or it starts to play some quiet yet festive music. Of course it would be switched on only to do this between dawn to dusk.

Karysa

[gail811]

Chair hogs are a nuisance not only on cruise ships, but at any resort where well located chairs are scarce. There may be rules, but managements are loath to enforce them because the hogs are also paying guests, and they often bray louder than the more polite ones.

 

You are right about that....took this at Sheraton's Vistana Resort in Orlando.

 

[mapsmith]

My solution would be to use the Sign and Sail Card (or whatever the cruise line calls it) in a special slot on the chair. You would be charged for any time over about an hour. Charge could be Free for the first Half Hour, $5 for the Second Hour, $15 for the the third hour, and $40 for each additional hour.

 

You could reset the timer by reinserting your card every hour. If you are there no problem, If "saving the chair, you would need to come by at least every half hour to reset the chair. Gets rid of the chair hogs and/or become a decent profit center for the cruise lines.

[rman738]

My solution would be to use the Sign and Sail Card (or whatever the cruise line calls it) in a special slot on the chair. You would be charged for any time over about an hour. Charge could be Free for the first Half Hour, $5 for the Second Hour, $15 for the the third hour, and $40 for each additional hour.

 

You could reset the timer by reinserting your card every hour. If you are there no problem, If "saving the chair, you would need to come by at least every half hour to reset the chair. Gets rid of the chair hogs and/or become a decent profit center for the cruise lines.

 

Don't give the cruise lines any other ideas to make $$$$. Today, with airlines charging for seat reservations and fees for bags, not to mention all the little "extra" charges the cruise lines already have, I'd rather deal with "chair hog" problems as they arise.

 

Don't expect the cruise lines to remedy this situation by having a sign. Look at what their recommendations mean for "dress codes" at dinner and not bring "personal" liquor aboard. Most people flout those rules anyway.

 

Either deal with "chair hogs" or live with it.

[mndity]

Chair hogs are a nuisance not only on cruise ships, but at any resort where well located chairs are scarce. There may be rules, but managements are loath to enforce them because the hogs are also paying guests, and they often bray louder than the more polite ones.

There are ways to control this problem. Here are some suggestions. Feel free to add more, as a longer thread may attract the right attention.

 

First, to save a chair for any length of time, one should at least occupy it first. A sandals tossed onto a chair at 7:30 a.m. is not a sign of occupancy, its just litter. A book so tossed is just literati !. All that is required is a sign prohibiting this, and one person on duty from 7 to 9, and this will kill the early morning, save and go crowd.

 

Most ships have a 30 minute rule. Its quite reasonable to save your chair when you go for a quick dip, a snack, or to the bathroom. ( and we hope you washed your hands after). Any longer is hog heaven.

Its not always easy to keep track of time, so why not try the French parking disc approach. Each chair has a small disk attached with a clock face and two hands. When you leave, you set the time. Anyone can see when your 30 minutes are up.

 

Here’s the good part: If you try to extend your time by fibbing on your time ( i.e. showing your leave time at 9:30 when its only 9:00.) anyone can see, and the saving time is now invalid. Call a deck attendant and he can be confident about removing stuff and seating the later guest. he has no good excuse to refuse your request to have the chair vacated.

Any other suggestions?

 

Do ships still have "planks"?????? LOL

[Arwenmark]

Do ships still have "planks"?????? LOL

 

Yup, there is one that drops down near the bow of the boat. LOL

Actually it is used in docking etc.

[Leejnd4]

I honestly don't understand all the hand-wringing that goes on with respect to chair hogs. The bottom line is, virtually every cruise line has a policy that pool chairs cannot be "saved" for longer than 20 or 30 minutes, and there are often signs located in visible spots that state as much. Naturally we cannot expect the cruise lines to enforce this, but there is nothing that says that we can't do so ourselves.

 

If I am searching for a pool chair, and all are either occupied by bodies or chair hog artifacts, I will simply determine which ones have been abandoned (easy method: ask those nearby if any bodies have been in them for the past 30 min.). If they have not been occupied for a long time, I will either ask a pool attendant to remove the abandoned artifacts, or remove them myself and give them to a pool attendant. The fact is that anyone who abandons their personal belongings, out in the open, on a ship full of strangers, clearly doesn't attach a strong sense of value to those belongings and is knowingly risking their disappearance. I consider it an act of kindness to ensure that their abandoned belongings are placed somewhere safe (with the pool attendant).

 

If the chair hogs come back and want their chair, I simply tell them that it was empty before I sat down...which is correct, as these chairs are not here to store belongings, but to provide seating for bodies. I see no reason to acknowledge that I am the one who moved their stuff. If they want to know where their stuff is, I will gladly suggest that they check with the closest pool attendant, since that's where most abandoned personal belongings are probabaly going to end up.

 

Problem solved.

[Sea Hag]

Don't expect the cruise lines to remedy this situation by having a sign. Look at what their recommendations mean for "dress codes" at dinner and not bring "personal" liquor aboard. Most people flout those rules anyway.

 

You bring up an interesting point. I'm not a chair hog, I don't like the idea of chairhogging, and I'm not defending chair hogs. (Is that enough disclaimers to avoid getting flamed off the planet?) But I'm wondering now how many people who would really like the chair hog rules to be enforced follow all the other rules? Is it okay for a person to smuggle liquor aboard and then complain about chair hogs? Can a person ingore dress codes but still demand that the chair hog rules be enforced? What's fair? What isn't fair?

[Leejnd4]

You bring up an interesting point. I'm not a chair hog, I don't like the idea of chairhogging, and I'm not defending chair hogs. (Is that enough disclaimers to avoid getting flamed off the planet?) But I'm wondering now how many people who would really like the chair hog rules to be enforced follow all the other rules? Is it okay for a person to smuggle liquor aboard and then complain about chair hogs? Can a person ingore dress codes but still demand that the chair hog rules be enforced? What's fair? What isn't fair?

 

Aack. Can we NOT turn this into a discussion of booze smuggling or dress codes?

 

Please note the key differences:

 

Chair Hogging: Rude behavior that inconvenciences other passengers by selfishly denying them the use of something that you are not using.

 

Booze smuggling: A private choice that impacts nobody but the booze smuggler.

 

Dress Code Violations: Falls somewhere in the middle - has no actual direct impact on other passengers, although some feel that it does impact them by affecting the "ambiance" of the onboard dining experience.

 

Can we stick to the topic? There are numerous threads about booze smuggling and dress code violations out there - or, feel free to start your own.

[Sea Hag]

Nope! I don't believe I was trying to change the topic. The questions I asked were reasonable ones, having to do with what's fair and what's not, and the original post had to do with fairness. I definitely wasn't turning this into a discussion about any of those other items. I'm pretty tired of threads on those topics too. Merely wondering if people who expect others to follow rules follow all the rules themselves.

[Bibi]

I do believe that there are people who do follow ALL the rules. I know that I dress appropriately for formal night, never try to smuggle booze on board, don't try to save lounge chairs, leave the proper tips (and then some) and try to treat others as I would like to be treated. It is a simple concept. Respect others, do what is right and have fun! It is your vacation, it is their vacation....there are no strangers....only friends we haven't yet met. Happy Cruising everyone!

[Sea Hag]

I do believe that there are people who do follow ALL the rules. I know that I dress appropriately for formal night, never try to smuggle booze on board, don't try to save lounge chairs, leave the proper tips (and then some) and try to treat others as I would like to be treated. It is a simple concept. Respect others, do what is right and have fun! It is your vacation, it is their vacation....there are no strangers....only friends we haven't yet met. Happy Cruising everyone!

 

You said it all, Bibi! I'm with you, and those things are exactly what I try to do too. :)

[Leejnd4]

Nope! I don't believe I was trying to change the topic. The questions I asked were reasonable ones, having to do with what's fair and what's not, and the original post had to do with fairness. I definitely wasn't turning this into a discussion about any of those other items. I'm pretty tired of threads on those topics too. Merely wondering if people who expect others to follow rules follow all the rules themselves.

 

Okay, well if this is the direction of the conversation...that's fine, I'll offer my two cents.

 

I am someone who believes in following rules, to the extent that the rules are reasonable, and are not detrimental to me...and to the extent that any choice I might make in NOT following them will not negatively impact others. I do not blindly follow rules just because someone decides to enact a rule or policy -- hey, not all rules or policies are fair, or in my best interest. Some rules/policies are unfair, unreasonable, and are for the benefit of some other entity, to my detriment.

 

That's how I see booze rules. These rules are solely for the benefit of a large corporation, to wring every last penny out of us while we are a captive audience on their cruise ships. I do not feel that cruise lines have an inherent right to insist that I purchase my alcoholic beverages from them - in essence, attempting to create a monopoly. If I legally purchased beverages, or any other consumable for that matter, from another merchant, and I am legally old enough to own and consume these beverages (and trust me, I am!) then a cruise line does not have an inherent, unquestionable right to forbid me from consuming them while I'm on their ship. What I do, or consume, in the privacy of my cabin is none of their business. None of us would consider it fair or reasonable for a hotel to tell us that we can't bring our own beverages or food into our hotel rooms - why do we accept this rule when inflicted by a cruise ship? Have you ever stayed at a hotel that says that if you want a glass of wine, you can't bring your own bottle - you must go down to their bar and purchase one from them? Of course not.

 

Nor does my carrying on or consuming my privately-purchased beverages impact anyone else on the ship. What I carry in my luggage, and drink in my cabin, isn't even SEEN by anyone else, much less impact on them. It's no one else's business.

 

This is in stark contrast to chair hog rules. Chair hog rules exist for the benefit of ALL passengers - to ensure fairness and appropriate behavior...to ensure that some passengers don't selfishly deny other passengers the use of public amenities. Breaking the chair hog rules causes inconvenience to other passengers - it negatively impacts their enjoyment of their own cruise...it takes something away from others. I wouldn't dream of doing something so inconsiderate to others.

 

Dress code rules are also for the benefit of all passengers. The cruise line markets, and sells, a certain type of experience - particularly with respect to formal nights. Passengers ignoring the dress code are, in essence, robbing the rest of the passengers of the experience that they have been promised by the cruise line, and that they paid for and should be able to reasonably expect. It's inconsiderate to do this to one's fellow passengers. I wouldn't dream of it.

 

So, in essence, what I'm saying is that you cannot lump all "rules" together in one bucket and say, either you're a rule breaker or you're a rule follower. It's reasonable and acceptable to apply critical thinking to these types of things, and make your own choices.

 

I do believe there are some people who don't give two hoots how their behavior impacts others, and feel like they can do whatever they want. There are other people who feel an obligation to obey every rule and edict, even if doing so is to their own detriment. And there are still other people who, like me, give careful consideration to all rules, policies, and expectations, and make their own choices using well-thought-out criteria. What's important is what criteria is used.

 

For me, one important criteria is to ensure that I never do anything that would have a negative impact on others. At the same time, I do not allow others, whether it's other passengers or a large for-profit corporation, to do unfair, unreasonable things that would have a negative impact on me.

[Pearlbill]

Hmmm. When a cruiseship company sets out the fares I'm sure they factor in how much money they need to operate with a profit. One of the factors must be an estimate on how much liquor they sell on board. The less booze that is sold, the less profit that is made and therefore higher fares must be charged. This does impact other passengers, especially the ones who buy their drinks on board or those who don't drink at all. It's very much like shoplifting increases the cost of consumer goods.

[Sea Hag]

Hmmm. When a cruiseship company sets out the fares I'm sure they factor in how much money they need to operate with a profit. One of the factors must be an estimate on how much liquor they sell on board. The less booze that is sold, the less profit that is made and therefore higher fares must be charged. This does impact other passengers, especially the ones who buy their drinks on board or those who don't drink at all. It's very much like shoplifting increases the cost of consumer goods.

 

I think you have a very good point, one that is completely logical. I doubt many here would agree with it, but I do.

[Sundagger]

Hmmm. When a cruiseship company sets out the fares I'm sure they factor in how much money they need to operate with a profit. One of the factors must be an estimate on how much liquor they sell on board. The less booze that is sold, the less profit that is made and therefore higher fares must be charged. This does impact other passengers, especially the ones who buy their drinks on board or those who don't drink at all. It's very much like shoplifting increases the cost of consumer goods.

 

I think you have a very good point, one that is completely logical. I doubt many here would agree with it, but I do.

 

Controversial view, but I'm another that agrees with it.

[paulred]

It may seem logical, provided the cruise line acts responsibly, and charges a reasonable markup. Te ones I have seen are not reasonable. If they were, then few people would feel the need to break the rules, and your logic would be correct. There are a lot of people, and I am one, who recognize any merchant's right to make a fair profit, but who don't like being taken advantage of.

 

Bsides, like all discount chains know, for net profit a reduced price makes up in volume what they lose on any one transaction.

 

That said, I am 100% in agreement with the comment that some rules can be bent, but not if it inconveniences other passengers.

 

Paul

[Pearlbill]

It may seem logical, provided the cruise line acts responsibly, and charges a reasonable markup. Te ones I have seen are not reasonable. If they were, then few people would feel the need to break the rules, and your logic would be correct. There are a lot of people, and I am one, who recognize any merchant's right to make a fair profit, but who don't like being taken advantage of.

 

Bsides, like all discount chains know, for net profit a reduced price makes up in volume what they lose on any one transaction.

 

That said, I am 100% in agreement with the comment that some rules can be bent, but not if it inconveniences other passengers.

 

Paul

 

I agree with you on the "volume" part. If more passengers bought their booze while onboard, rather than "smuggling" it on, the price could be reduced for everyone. The markup wouldn't have to be as great as it is.

[Leejnd4]

Hmmm. When a cruiseship company sets out the fares I'm sure they factor in how much money they need to operate with a profit. One of the factors must be an estimate on how much liquor they sell on board. The less booze that is sold, the less profit that is made and therefore higher fares must be charged. This does impact other passengers, especially the ones who buy their drinks on board or those who don't drink at all. It's very much like shoplifting increases the cost of consumer goods.

 

Yes, I'm quite sure that cruise ships factor expected, and hoped-for, profits from all the things they sell -- booze, shore excursions, gold-by-the-inch, toothpaste in the gift shop -- into their fares.

 

However, just because they sell these things does not mean that we are required to buy them from them. And if we choose not to buy them from the cruise line, how are we doing anything wrong? Why do people not seem to have a problem with passengers who choose to use private tour operators, rather than buying their shore excursions from the ship? They are taking away profits from the cruise line! What about folks who bring their own toothpaste? Hey, the ship sells it - they should be buying it from the ship! What about pax who purchase their jewelry in port, rather than from the gold-by-the-inch booths onboard? Denying profits to the cruiselines! All our fares are going to increase!

 

I hope you are seeing my point. For whatever reason, the cruise lines feel they have a right to dictate from whom we must purchase any alcoholic beverages consumed while onboard their ships. They don't dictate this about anything else they sell - they don't forbid us from buying private shore excursions, toothpaste, t-shirts. My personal view is that they have no more right to dictate where we purchase our wine, than they do where we purchase our jewelry. *I* get to decide where I make my purchases...and I choose to purchase my booze elsewhere.

 

Sure, if everyone bought their booze from the cruise line, fares might be lower (and that's seriously debatable). But then, they would also be lower if everyone bought ALL their shore excursions, and ALL their t-shirts, and ALL their toothpaste, and ALL their jewelry, from cruise lines. Why does it not bother you that people don't do THAT? Should the cruise lines make rules and policies that their passengers cannot use private tour guides? Should they ban carry-on toothpaste?

 

Another serious flaw in your logic is that you are comparing something completely legal, that takes nothing from anyone and harms no-one, to something that is utterly and indisputably illegal, criminal, and unethical. Shoplifting is stealing, plain and simple. Shoplifting is taking something that does not belong to you, and not paying for it. Booze smuggling cannot in ANY way be compared to that. The cruise line did not own my booze. Whatever merchant I purchased it from did - and I paid for it, fair and square.

 

The bottom line is, the cruise line does not have a right to my booze dollars, if I don't want to spend them with them. They can try to force me to buy my booze from them by enacting these absurd rules, but they do not have a legal right to make me spend any of my money on booze if I don't want to. What about non-drinkers? They don't spend any booze money with the cruise line either! There is no 2-drink minimum on a cruise. The only money of mine they are entitled to is my cruise fare - which I paid.

 

Honestly, I get tired of constantly being compared to criminals for the "crime" of consuming my legally purchased beverages in the privacy of my fully-paid-for cabin in a floating hotel. Please think a little more carefully before you post such things. Thanks.

[Leejnd4]

I agree with you on the "volume" part. If more passengers bought their booze while onboard, rather than "smuggling" it on, the price could be reduced for everyone. The markup wouldn't have to be as great as it is.

 

That may be true - but then, the same thing can be said about shore excursions. Cruise lines charge sometimes outrageous mark-ups on shore excursions. Perhaps they could charge a lower markup if everyone would stop using private tour ops!

 

Same principal. And I hope you are seeing the logical flaws there.

 

And on top of this, there is yet another major logical flaw in the above arguments: the whole concept that cruise lines base their fares solely on how much profit they actually make. Even if a cruise line was able to increase profits in some way, e.g. by successfully enforcing booze rules, or by forbidding use of private tour ops, there is nothing that says that they will pass those increased profits to you! Corporations price their products, for the most part, on what the market will bear. Trust me, they are not altruistically going to pass any increased profits that they can squeeze out of us onto the customer. They will simply pocket the difference. Y'all give way too much credit to corporate altruism (which is, in fact, an oxymoron).

[Pearlbill]

"The essence of a society is dependent on the willingness of its members to obey all it's rules."

 

By buying a holiday from a cruise line, you are agreeing, by default, to obey their rules. If their rules are too stringent for you, pick another cruise line. Just because someone doesn't like the rules, does not mean one can break them. They do not mind if you buy t-shirts etc. from the ports rather than their gift shops, nor do they care if you take tours with private operators.

 

The original question was about breaking rules.