Got Caught Trying to Cheat Carnival...

[direfun2000]

I doubt that they would call the resort. Probably just want that as a back up in case Carnival busts the tour operator.

[Deckhawk]

So, I guess I'll be paying the double fee on Carnival because I really wanted to do this excursion...

 

It's a shame that Carnival has such a monopoly. However, I doubt that this contractor could verify that you have a reservation at a hotel. Do you really think the hotel is going to confirm that you will be staying there. I would be TICKED if a hotel did that. I don't want the paparazzi showing up when they find out I am staying at the local motel 6...

[Guienevere_Arianette]

OK, I told them the Atrium Resort. IDK about pickup; see, at first I told them I was going to be on the island and wanted to know prices. They emailed back and asked where I was staying (making sure I wasn't arriving on ship) and where would I like to be picked up.

 

I ignored their question about where I was staying :o and said that I was going to meet some friends/family on the boardwalk near the cruiseship pier. They said that was fine, but I wasn't allowed on the pier as I didn't have a cruise ship passenger card. OK, that's fine. But then they asked again, "What is the name you booked under and where are you staying?"

 

That's when I posted my embarassing story to this board...but, I'm giving it one more go...I just emailed them and said that I was staying at the Atrium Resort and we would like to be picked up with our friends, who were going to be near the dock.

 

Jeez, the tangled web I weave...I'm going to feel so stupid when this is all said and done, but honestly, if this is this worst thing I've done, I'm OK, I think :p

[lsycko1]

Sheer brilliance. My hat is off to you.

 

 

Not to burst any bubbles here, BUT sometimes when you book a resort they charge you upfront, OR have very strict cancelation policies... :confused: Sorry

[Guienevere_Arianette]

Not to burst any bubbles here, BUT sometimes when you book a resort they charge you upfront, OR have very strict cancelation policies... :confused: Sorry

 

So true!

[Anna0513]

I did something similar to this just today. We are going with my husband's entire family...there are 17 of us total. I called the Golden Eagle Catamaran Sail & Snorkel to see if we could book with them and get a group rate. First question was are you on a cruise or staying at a hotel on the island. I wrote back and said "does it matter." She said well yes because our catamaran's are mostly on contract to the cruiselines. I told her that we wanted to ensure that we would all be together and asked if she would accommodate us anyway. I got no reply.

[lsycko1]

True. I don't know the answer to that question either. But if they can't give your itinerary or reservation info out to third parties, it would mean that you could just pick a resort and tell them you are staying there. No need to even mess with booking and cancelling.

 

 

Again working for a hotel here, I can tell you that if they called and asked if Joe Smith is reserved for a certain date, they would be able to get the information. It's just like if you call a hotel and ask for someone, they will conect you to the room, they just can't give out the room number. So long story short, they can verify a reservation, they just can't give out any personal stuff. Of course that is here in the US, I am not sure what the laws are there:D

[MamaParrotHead]

Hey, I personally would see it through to save 50% off my excursion cost. If you don't try, you won't know. I try to live my life with as few regrets as possible, and save some cash along the way if I can. ;):D

[Crusin6]

OK, OK, bash and flame if you must...I know some people will...but feel better knowing I got in "trouble" and feel like a complete loser now :(

 

So, the Amazing Tiki Hut Snorkel adventure that Carnival offers...$80 pp, right? But the company does the excursion for $40 pp...the caveat is that they have a contract with RCI, Carnival, and I believe Holland America. They will not book excursions for their Tiki Hut outside of the ship; if you are a cruise passenger on one of the above ships, you have to sign up on the ship and pay double.

 

Well, I went to the St. Maarten thread and read some reviews of this hut...several people said they felt silly for paying the Carnival price for the excursion when there were people on their own boat who told them (as they stood on line waiting for the shuttle) that they paid half the price by booking independently...they simply told the company they were staying at a resort on the island, and voila, avoided the exorbitant Carnival fee.

 

So, I sent an email to the company, asking what the rates were. They wrote back and asked if I was arriving via cruise ship or if I was going to be on the island. I said I would be on the island (yes, I lied). Then they wrote back and said "We need your name and the resort you are staying as so we can verify that you are not a cruise ship passenger."

 

Um, I didn't respond...too embarassed for being caught in my lie :o

 

So, I guess I'll be paying the double fee on Carnival because I really wanted to do this excursion...

 

Crime and lies do not pay! Lesson learned. :p

I have to say, with the info that you now have, will you actually pay Carnival twice as much? I don't know why you are bashing yourself here, considering we are all strangers anyway, you actually should be angry at Carnival and these Tiki folks!

 

So if I understand correctly, Carnival is telling these Tiki people not to book any excursions to Carnival pax? These Tiki people are going along with it because Carnival probably gives them $40 per pax anyway and keeps the rest. The only ones who benefit here are the Tiki people because they don't have to hawk you on the street and Carnival does the paper work for them and then throws them a commission. Carnival makes money by selling to their pax at double the price when they know you could get it cheaper. Oh but they sell it to the pax who need it all done for them as convenience and safety, I would think. I bet Carnival has some nasty things to say about safety etc. regarding the Tiki Hut during the excursion talks. Veteran cruisers know what I am talking about.

 

They should both be apologizing to you and all the other visitors to their island. Oh yeah, they are all too busy laughing at the pax!!!!:mad: Remember you spend money there.

 

I already knew this was done by Carnival, but it wouldn't affect us at all because we wouldn't pay double knowing we were being sold a bill of goods.

[broberts]

OP, you didn't get caught trying to cheat anyone. In fact what you did do was expose what might be a crime up our way. Price fixing, which is what you appear to have stumbled across, is illegal in most developed countries.

 

I might be tempted to email copies of the correspondence to the appropriate consumer protection / competition watchdog department in St Maarten / the Netherlands if I could figure out who that would be.

[lsycko1]

I have to say, with the info that you now have, will you actually pay Carnival twice as much? I don't know why you are bashing yourself here, considering we are all strangers anyway, you actually should be angry at Carnival and these Tiki folks!

 

So if I understand correctly, Carnival is telling these Tiki people not to book any excursions to Carnival pax? These Tiki people are going along with it because Carnival probably gives them $40 per pax anyway and keeps the rest. The only ones who benefit here are the Tiki people because they don't have to hawk you on the street and Carnival does the paper work for them and then throws them a commission. Carnival makes money by selling to their pax at double the price when they know you could get it cheaper. Oh but they sell it to the pax who need it all done for them as convenience and safety, I would think. I bet Carnival has some nasty things to say about safety etc. regarding the Tiki Hut during the excursion talks. Veteran cruisers know what I am talking about.

 

They should both be apologizing to you and all the other visitors to their island. Oh yeah, they are all too busy laughing at the pax!!!!:mad: Remember you spend money there.

 

I already knew this was done by Carnival, but it wouldn't affect us at all because we wouldn't pay double knowing we were being sold a bill of goods.

 

It's no different than priceline, orbitz, or any other third party booking company. There is a reason that when you book a hotel room through one of these you don't get a reciept, the room rate is much less than you paid. I can sell a block of rooms to priceline for $49 per night, and they will sell those same rooms for $79 or more. Is it right, not sure, but it is buisness. Carnival is in the buisness of making money, as with the Tiki folks!

[wolv4life]

Will they want to come 'pick you up' at the resort? I know some tour companies do this....or is there a place you have to go to?

 

Even if they did, you just take a cab to the resort and meet them at the entrance.

[EmmasNana]

All of the cruise lines do this. I had an excursion nearly booked by myself In Hawaii but when they realized I was coming off the cruise ship I received an email saying they were booked up. I think it is pretty crappy to charge double. Sure if they are supplying transportation that is worth something, but not $40pp.

[bplazo]

I think that it is so wrong to charge cruiseship passengers more than people staying at the resorts.

[wolv4life]

OK, I told them the Atrium Resort. IDK about pickup; see, at first I told them I was going to be on the island and wanted to know prices. They emailed back and asked where I was staying (making sure I wasn't arriving on ship) and where would I like to be picked up.

 

I ignored their question about where I was staying :o and said that I was going to meet some friends/family on the boardwalk near the cruiseship pier. They said that was fine, but I wasn't allowed on the pier as I didn't have a cruise ship passenger card. OK, that's fine. But then they asked again, "What is the name you booked under and where are you staying?"

 

That's when I posted my embarassing story to this board...but, I'm giving it one more go...I just emailed them and said that I was staying at the Atrium Resort and we would like to be picked up with our friends, who were going to be near the dock.

 

Jeez, the tangled web I weave...I'm going to feel so stupid when this is all said and done, but honestly, if this is this worst thing I've done, I'm OK, I think :p

 

 

Lets us know how it turns out!

[fireofficer5]

I have friends who live there.

[CC Help Michell]

Just by way of explanation, many tour providers in the Caribbean compete, and heavily, for these cruise ship contracts. Landing one means the company has a steady source of income, week in and week out, plus the ability to offer employment security, make capital expenditures, etc. The tradeoff is the contract provisions requiring the vendor to do business with cruise ship passengers only through the cruiseline, and to take steps to make sure that they aren't undercutting Carnival, their business partner.

 

I agree with the person above who posted that this vendor likely does not actually check to confirm resort reservations in this scenario -- but they need the written record that they asked in case Carnival does an audit, or a Carnival employee is on the excursion that day and notices ship passengers on the excursion who weren't on the shore excursion list, etc., for instance. The vendor doesn't want to risk their cruiseline contract, simply put (especially in these economic times).

 

From Carnival's perspective, entering into these agreements means they can offer and sell shore excursions well ahead of time, knowing there will be room for their passengers. However, there are expenses involved in "vetting" the vendors, checking their insurance provisions and safety practices, marketing and selling the excursions, personnel expenses for shore excursion desk folks, and so on. Even though these vendors are considered independent contractors (and we all agree they are when we sign the paperwork for the shore excursion), if something goes wrong folks will be pointing at Carnival, and expecting Carnival to step up to the plate (as Celebrity did with the bus accident last week in Domenica).

 

I don't say any of that justifies a 100% markup over what the vendor charges non-ship passengers, because I don't know what the actual numbers are. I will say that's why when I choose an independent excursion I try to use one which does not have this type of contract with the cruiseline -- it's cheaper! But sometimes for a one-of-a-kind product, the cruiselines have been smart enough to lock in the vendor via contract.

 

Hope the OP has a wonderful cruise, whatever the outcome!

[Name Of The Game]

OP, if you take a cab to the resort you're claiming to stay at to be picked up, they may want to drop you off there as well. I hope the excursion ends early enough so you have time to cab it back to the ship.

[bcs819]

just pick a resort. Your name doesn't have to be on the reservation, and that's what I tell my mom every time we do a land vacation. His name is on the reservation, but I'm still legitimately there.

[owl61]

In fact what you did do was expose what might be a crime up our way. Price fixing, which is what you appear to have stumbled across, is illegal in most developed countries.

As Carnival may provide value, to wit, advance confirmation and ease of booking, plus other amenities like a guide and or transportation this arrangement may not constitute illegal price fixing (which generally bars sellers from conspiring to charge a fixed price for the identical goods or service). But I have some questions whether it is not violative of (US) law to prohibit the tour vendor from selling to ship passengers at any price. It maybe ok for Carnival to contract with the vendor that he not solicit ship passengers, but my legal intuition tells me it might be violative of some (US) law to bar all sales to ship passengers who ask without being solicited. Not sure what the law of the jurisdiction in question would provide.

p.s. It wouldn't surprise me if Carnival paid $30 to Tiki for each customer and kept $50 for itself.

[wolv4life]

As Carnival may provide value, to wit, advance confirmation and ease of booking, plus other amenities like a guide and or transportation this arrangement may not constitute illegal price fixing (which generally bars sellers from conspiring to charge a fixed price for the identical goods or service). But I have some questions whether it is not violative of (US) law to prohibit the tour vendor from selling to ship passengers at any price. It maybe ok for Carnival to contract with the vendor that he not solicit ship passengers, but my legal intuition tells me it might be violative of some (US) law to bar all sales to ship passengers who ask without being solicited. Not sure what the law of the jurisdiction in question would provide.

p.s. It wouldn't surprise me if Carnival paid $30 to Tiki for each customer and kept $50 for itself.

 

Haha. Is there any other profession where they use "to wit"? Its always a sure sign of a lawyer.

 

PS - with 500,000 (or however many) members on this site, we could get quite a class action going ;)

[Crusin6]

It's no different than priceline, orbitz, or any other third party booking company. There is a reason that when you book a hotel room through one of these you don't get a reciept, the room rate is much less than you paid. I can sell a block of rooms to priceline for $49 per night, and they will sell those same rooms for $79 or more. Is it right, not sure, but it is buisness. Carnival is in the buisness of making money, as with the Tiki folks!

And this particular little side business of Carnival's is a direct insult to their pax!

[TheVegasMan]

Write them back and tell them you are not staying on the island but that you have a REALLY long layover between flights and their excursion sounded like a fun way to spend the time. Why do you want to meet them at the cruise ship pier instead of the airport? Well, we heard they had the best souvenirs there.

[broberts]

It's no different than priceline, orbitz, or any other third party booking company. There is a reason that when you book a hotel room through one of these you don't get a reciept, the room rate is much less than you paid. I can sell a block of rooms to priceline for $49 per night, and they will sell those same rooms for $79 or more. Is it right, not sure, but it is buisness. Carnival is in the buisness of making money, as with the Tiki folks!

 

I don't see any similarity. In the hotel scenario one can still purchase a room, presuming availability, directly from the operator. In the case outlined in the OP there is apparently availability but the operator is refusing to sell directly to a cruise passenger even though they are willing to sell the same directly to a non-cruise passenger.

[Crusin6]

All of the cruise lines do this. I had an excursion nearly booked by myself In Hawaii but when they realized I was coming off the cruise ship I received an email saying they were booked up. I think it is pretty crappy to charge double. Sure if they are supplying transportation that is worth something, but not $40pp.

I always knew about all this excursion dealing and did expect to see it on both of our Carnival cruises. However, never did I have any problem arranging for private tours in any of the ports Carnival took us to.

 

Of course it wasn't the Carib and Carnival knew that the pax at the Med. ports were going to do whatever they wanted anyway so I doubt they could have stopped people from booking on their own. Naples, Venice, Croatia, Barcelona, Monaco, Florence......more vans with men holding name cards than big 50 seater buses that was for sure. I guess the cruise ship couldn't strongarm the European tour operators.

 

I know I cannot change it, but it is disturbing to see this going on in the Carib ports where the majority of Carnival cruisers are Americans/Canadians. Seems like they take us for granted and we are letting them.