Crown & Anchor Program Revisions - join the merged discussions here

[Cruising Greek]

What great opportunity for Carnival or Holland or another line to pick up a group of customers who have a history of being loyal. They may want to consider honoring those Diamond members of RCL on thier ship/lines and providing them with some form of recognition for moving to a line that respects their loyalty. I plan on moving on based on some of the feed back I have heard and read from Cruiser's who have used other lines. My loyalty to RCL means nothing or little so I would just be another line item on their business case showing that I was part of their assumption that I could be used.

 

Nice idea, but the first thing that came to my mind as I read your suggestion was that it would alienate the loyal cruisers of the other line. It would start this fiasco in all of the other lines.

 

But, at least you are offering ideas.

 

I tend to choose the cruise line that has the pricing and itineraries that fit my life best. I am a member of RCIs as well as Princess' loyalty programs, and let the credits build up as they come. I will take what is offered at the time, but focus on my family's cruising enjoyment.

 

I am saddened by the happenings with this recent policy change, and hope that it does not adversely affect RCI. While I enjoy Princess, and feel that they are very similar to RCL, I overwhelmingly love the design of RCL ships over Princess.

 

Hopefully, they can weather the uncreated storm (economy) as well as the storm of their own doing (alienating their loyal cruisers).

[dutchess43]

If it was just about the money then why do they have diamond lounges on the freedom & Oaises of the seas? IMHO they want all to benefit by a diamond lounge to sail on the larger ships to fill them up. It should be over flow lounges for all diamonds on all ships or none at all! It seems now if you are diamond & want a diamond lounge come sail on larger ships & pay for that privledge.

[beachbuzzard]

just my one cents worth (I left the other cent somewhere else :) )

 

Here it is, found it! :)

 

[Jeka]

No way the average drinker consumes 3 drinks in the CL. More likely an average of 1-1.5, so your numbers need to be reduced by 50-66%.

 

You jest? Have you been to a CL or an overflow bar?

[ECCruise]

You jest? Have you been to a CL or an overflow bar?

 

Yes. Both.

 

Of course there are those who abuse the priviledge but we are speaking averages here. Plenty of people stop in for a single drink before dinner (like us).

[pierces]

You have to include other factors when determining the cost. Let's say an average user of the CL consumes three drinks there per evening. Let's say the actual cost to Royal is $1 per drink. So they lose $3 per person. But that is not the end of it. That same person drinking for free at the CL may have purchased two drinks at a bar/lounge if the CL was not around. Let's say Royal makes a $6 profit on each drink sold. So now Royal is not just down $3 per person, but down $15 per person. Then factor in the cost of the chocolate covered strawberries and the hot appetizers served there that are of higher quality than what is available as snacks in the Windjammer. Probably another $1 to $2 per person. Then the staff time devoted to setting up, serving, and cleaning up. When all is said and done Royal might be losing $15-$20 per person per day who uses the CL. That add ups!

 

Assuming that person wasn't actually paying for a cabin.

 

Granted there is a reduction in profit, but someone mentioned the lubrication factor on purchases outside the Lounge earlier in the thread. Why do you think they give away drinks in Vegas?

 

In defense of your argument, it is probably just the track that the bean-counters took in coming to their decision. Free drinks to the suite guests because the loss is a smaller percentage of their daily cabin cost or something like that. Losing Diamond members not booking suites is a smaller loss than losing a suite guest angered at having to mingle with the commoners.

 

Whatever the reason, it is done and we all have to choose how we will deal with it. Happiness is a choice and I choose to remain happy! (Though not as happy with Royal as I was a week ago!)

 

Dave

[Jeka]

Yes. Both.

 

And you honestly believe that the number of drinks on average is 1 to 1.5? Do you do main dining?

[wblynch]

You have to include other factors when determining the cost. Let's say an average user of the CL consumes three drinks there per evening. Let's say the actual cost to Royal is $1 per drink. So they lose $3 per person. But that is not the end of it. That same person drinking for free at the CL may have purchased two drinks at a bar/lounge if the CL was not around. Let's say Royal makes a $6 profit on each drink sold. So now Royal is not just down $3 per person, but down $15 per person. Then factor in the cost of the chocolate covered strawberries and the hot appetizers served there that are of higher quality than what is available as snacks in the Windjammer. Probably another $1 to $2 per person. Then the staff time devoted to setting up, serving, and cleaning up. When all is said and done Royal might be losing $15-$20 per person per day who uses the CL. That add ups!

 

You are missing the point that RCCL cruises are typically priced hundreds or even thousands of US$ higher than their competition to begin with.

 

On our most recent Serenade cruise, we stayed in Grand Suites for nearly $3,000 more per cabin than the equivalent on Holland America and about $2,000 more than on Princess.

 

We selected Serenade for that cruise (at the higher price) specifically because it put us at the Diamond level in the C&A. Being suite passengers gave us access to the Concierge Lounge.

 

This year, when selecting our next cruise, the Concierge Lounge was our primary decision driver.

 

With the removal of Concierge access, we have decided to sail on the Emerald Princess instead of RCCL since we get better ports and a savings of $1400 !

 

Sure, we'll miss the rock climbing wall but $1400 buys a lot of shore excursions, or in Miss Jane's world.... jewelry.

[ECCruise]

And you honestly believe that the number of drinks on average is 1 to 1.5? Do you do main dining?

 

Nope. Do late or MTD.

[Cruising Greek]

When life gives you lemons...you just have to Laugh Out Loud!

 

Do you like the addition to our signature? We look just like Diamonds...we're just worth less.

 

Dave

 

Dave,

 

Nice touch. Much better than calling youselves "Cubic Zirconia Members" lol.

[aurelius180]

Why do you think they give away drinks in Vegas?

 

 

Vegas' main job is to seperate you from your money through gambling. Alcohol helps facilitate that and people tend to spend more money gambling and take riskier bets while intoxicated. A primary source of revenue for any cruise line is bar service. Why give that away? I don't think people are going to get drunk and book a ton of excursions (another major source of revenue). Apples to oranges. :)

[Jeka]

Nope. Do late or MTD.

 

In that case, I just beg to differ with you on your number of drinks assumption/calculation. We do use the lounge for 45 min to an hour before dinner and have 2 drinks and we're not alone. The place is pretty packed when we arrive and people are there are pretty happy, not to mention loud.

[beachbuzzard]

Then why the devastation over this HUGE loss??? :rolleyes:

 

Well first of all, I think the word "devastation" is a bit strong for most of us unhappy over it. For me it is a feeling of disappointment more than devastation.

 

Because it isn't just about the amount of liquor one can consume in 3 hours. It's about the feel. People want to feel special. That is what sold the C&A program and made it so (probably too) successful. It made people feel like they were getting a nice perk for their loyalty. They felt they could get something that the less loyal or newer cruiser could not. And they could save a few bucks on drinks also. It is all of that combined.

 

For many (and I admit, I am in this group), it IS the ability to get a few free drinks before dinner. I don't drink coffee, so I couldn't care less about that part of it. And I'm not much for real quiet venues and bars, I like to be around people most of the time (for instance, I easily prefer the main pool over the solarium). So I wouldn't be just hanging out in the CL lounge reading during non-happy hour times. I wouldn't mind the tickets for the ice shows and excursions though. I would use that some. But for others in here they have mentioned how they like the quiet times in the lounge, the coffee in the morning, etc.

 

The common denominator here is the feeling that we are getting something special for our loyalty. Something another cruise line didn't offer. It is the loss of that feeling that has brought RCCL back to the pack for many of us by tipping the scales back to even.

 

I will now need to cruise other lines to see if others are a better fit for me before I establish a favorite cruise line or two. Or perhaps I'll never have a favorite and always enjoy the variety. Who knows. All I know is that this move for us cost them our exclusivity, which they have determined in some sort of study is expendable.

[kauppias]

Here it is, found it! :)

 

WHEW, thanks, I thought id lost it forever :D

[FL_cruiser]

what upsets me is that i have 28 days coming up on the Serenade which I booked OVER A YEAR ago. I have already purchased air tickets and a hotel room. I was expecting my cruise to include complimentary wine before dinner in a private setting with other experienced cruisers. This was something i looked forward to. If i could cancel my air tickets i would cancel this cruise and go with Holland or Princess. Its not JUST the CL, but the food HAS suffered recently. Changes in Vitality program. PAYING for some steaks at dinner. I wonder if i will be frisked or xrayed to check for booze smuggling? Any more, for MY money i will be cruising with other companies... JUST MY OPIINION, it may not be yours...

[pierces]

Vegas' main job is to seperate you from your money through gambling. Alcohol helps facilitate that and people tend to spend more money gambling and take riskier bets while intoxicated. A primary source of revenue for any cruise line is bar service. Why give that away? I don't think people are going to get drunk and book a ton of excursions (another major source of revenue). Apples to oranges. :)

 

After leaving the CL with a couple of drinks in them, a happy, relaxed and slightly intoxicated passenger walking through the promenade may be more likely to purchase something, pose for a photo or even wander into the casino. Excursions aren't the only money/passenger separation tools available on a cruise ship.

 

It may be Fuji vs. Rome Beauty, but they are still apples.

 

Dave

[beachbuzzard]

In that case, I just beg to differ with you on your number of drinks assumption/calculation. We do use the lounge for 45 min to an hour before dinner and have 2 drinks and we're not alone. The place is pretty packed when we arrive and people are there are pretty happy, not to mention loud.

 

Here, I'll settle this for you two. Based on my non-scientific method of taking slips of paper, writing 10 different possible averages on them, tossing them down the stairs and using the slip that flew down to the lowest step, the official average number of drinks consumed by a CL user is 2.08742 drinks.

 

Ok, armed with that stat, let the real cost analysis begin!! :D

[xpcdoojk]

I think it is useless to try and convince you to take your head out of the sand ;) OK, let's talk facts: It seems like with a two year lead, RCCL would have at least *appeared* prepared for the questions at the C&A parties and had letters ready for Canadian and UK customers..but they didn't. But, alas, some people are so emotionally tied to the RCCL brand, that they lost all objectivity and cling to their fuzzy feelings and blind loyalty but ignore reality. You should really try to practice what you preach :D Y

 

HUH... if you are going to try to have a witty comeback to your being checkmated you really ought to have a point. I do not have blind loyalty. I have cruised with other cruise lines. I don't only take cruise vacations. I didn't book RCI cruises to get free booze. I will book RCI and other lines in the future. I don't go on a message forum and tell someone how to run their own company. I don't try to harm another person's property by trying to chase people away. I don't cheer for someone else's property to become bankrupt like you do.

 

 

I am not emotionally tied to RCI brand. I like Celebrity better, but I do like RCI's ships better. I prefer HAL's Lido buffet 10 to 1 over the windjammer which I mostly avoid. If you were a functioning member of this forum and not someone just out to attack RCI because of RCI's change in behavior you might know this about me, but instead you just charge on blindly with emotion and your pitchfork. You think RCI sucks, great. Who the rip cares what you think, especially for the 40th time? Heck, I don't even like the change in C&A benefits, the only difference is I am capable of understanding why the changes are necessary in the judgement of those who are responsible for running the cruiseline. Do I think they did this on a whim, or because they wanted to make all of the diamonds mad? Of course not. Which means that they knew that people would be unhappy, but they knew that they had to do it anyway.

 

jc

[Gonzo70]

Assuming that person wasn't actually paying for a cabin.

 

Granted there is a reduction in profit, but someone mentioned the lubrication factor on purchases outside the Lounge earlier in the thread. Why do you think they give away drinks in Vegas?

 

No, I am not factoring in extraneous variables. Royal Caribbean loses out on somewhere around $15 to $20 per day (rough estimates) per person per day that uses the CL during Happy Hour (or should I say Happy 3 & 1/2 hours). This is completely independent of how much someone paid for a room, how much they gamble, how many shore excursions they book and what not. If the lounge did not exist, they would make about $15 to $20 more per day from people who previously utilized the CL.

 

No point in bringing up Las Vegas. Vegas gives away alcohol to gamblers so they are disinhibited and are far more likely to gamble more (and the more people gamble, the more the casino profits over the long run - sometimes even the short run)! The CL is not a profit center for Royal Caribbean like the casinos are for the Vegas hotels. The CL is an area where Royal loses out on money as a nice gesture to guests as well as for advertisement purporses (an incentive to crusie with them).

 

While I do think Royal will probably make out with a little extra money by closing the CL to Diamonds (i.e. they will save more money by limited the number of people having access to the lounge than they will lose by people not booking with them because of this policy change that cannot be replaced by new bookings). However I do think it was a bad buisness decision. I would have liked to have seen a compromise such as a two drink maximum or only having the lounge open on certain nights (i.e. formal nights for example) or charging half price for drinks etc. An alternative like that could have still saved them significant money, but kept a rather nice perk/incentive in place and upset far fewer loyal cruises.

[wblynch]

... All I know is that this move for us cost them our exclusivity, which they have determined in some sort of study is expendable.

 

Which negates the purpose of the Crown and Anchor Society.

 

Brand Loyalty is all based on emotion. Loyal customers are willing to overlook shortcomings or higher prices because of their emotional investment in the company.

 

It isn't just the loss of concierge lounge access to Diamond members. C&A members at all levels will question the value of remaining loyal to RCCL since the overall RCCL cruise experience has been diminished and the loyalty program offers little advantage to keep them from considering the competition.

[hellosailer]

Bye Bye. Nice knowing you.:D

 

jc

 

You are such a bad boy!! :D:D

 

I wonder how they all know what will be in the new coupon book? Anyone actually seen one?

[wblynch]

(nearly) 3,000 posts - there must be a lot of emotion invested in the Crown and Anchor Society.

[beachbuzzard]

... or only having the lounge open on certain nights (i.e. formal nights for example) ...

 

Another excellent idea. Diamonds with CL access (or overflow) only on formal nights. Would have worked for me.

 

I'd like to think that they thought about all of the scaled back options, but in the end decided it was best for the total amputation. I guess we'll never know for sure if they considered stuff like this. But IMHO, the formal night only option would have been a great compromise.

[kauppias]

When I cruise on ships WITHOUT the CL I generally drink sodas I buy the soda card ON ALL SHIPS so RCCL makes the same amount of money on me, I have the same beer at dinner time regardless if I am in the CL before dinner or not, I go to the CL to meet up with other cruisers and there in a nice setting it is quite easy to strike up a conversation, heh I met a nice lady from norway on my last cruise with my friend, and we ended up talking everynight the whole cruise, I doubt we would have had that opportunity without the CL. SO atleast on me the CL adds to Royals revenue more then they lose as when I have had a few in the CL i tend to be apt to contiinue the conversations in another venue and there buy drinks as if I dont have a chatterbox I just go to the show or to the jacuzzies, were not big on drinking "alone" lol okay that sounds weird but so be it :D

[coxswain]

Oh yeah they took their time and thought it through jc - thats why as Liz has already said more bad news is on its way - why emails haven't been sent !!

 

 

What is a non-functioning member ? jc

 

 

 

 

 

 

jj......