CC article about removing auto tips

[CruisnGram]

I stumbled across this and thought it was very interesting. Everyone will have their own viewpoint of course, but mine is that this was no accident. It's standard practice and since they were "caught" they are making up excuses. Notice the part in the article that says that NCL & Princess made no comment about when the notify staff that a customer has opted out of the auto gratuity.

CG

Cruise Critic Member Photo Stirs Up Tipping Controversy Cruise Critic member Wennfred recently returned home from a cruise onboard Carnival Splendor and posted pictures from the trip on the Cruise Critic message boards. But, one photo, in particular, has stirred up a bit of controversy on an already-controversial subject: tipping.

 

During a behind-the-scenes ship tour, Wennfred spotted -- and photographed -- a printout of an e-mail posted on a bulletin board. On the e-mail? The names of passengers who removed their prepaid gratuities from their onboard accounts, which left many Cruise Critic members wondering whether such a list could impact service -- particularly for those who opt, instead, to tip specific employees in cash at the end of the cruise -- or general conduct among crew.

 

Perfect Stranger perfectly sums up the concern: "I hope another name for it isn't the 'Spit in Food' list."

 

Carnival spokeswoman Jennifer de la Cruz says that the note was not supposed to have been posted, telling the New York Post, "I've confirmed that this is absolutely not standard protocol and should not have happened. Crewmembers are not informed of which guests removed their gratuities until after the voyage is completed and guests have disembarked. This information should not have been posted, and shoreside management is in communication with this vessel to ensure that it doesn't happen again."

 

It's also important to remember that the sailing in question -- the April 28 departure of Carnival Splendor -- was out of the ordinary in that it was supposed to go to the Mexican Riviera, but didn't, due to last-minute, swine-flu-related itinerary changes. That resulted in some disappointed passengers' decisions to disembark in Long Beach a few days early.

 

voyagefiend says, "I'm one of the whiners that left the ship on Thursday ... too many sea days make me sick. I travel for the ports! I went to the purser -- what a chore (with all the obnoxious people abusing Carnival employees). What a shame, they were powerless. I was told there was no way to adjust the tips based on being on the ship four days except to take it out and tip in cash. So I guess my name is on the list ... I would never purposely stiff any of those wonderful hard-working folks!"

 

We won't get into the argument here of which method of tipping is proper or best -- Cruise Critic members are already discussing that at length on a thread entitled The Prepaid Gratuities Removed List, which, at press time, numbered some 13 pages. But, we will tackle this question: What exactly is supposed to happen when you decide to adjust the amount of the automatic gratuity?

 

Again, according to de la Cruz, Carnival crewmembers are supposed to be informed of which guests removed gratuities only after the cruise ends. Other lines we contacted didn't have such information handy. Passengers on Norwegian Cruise Line and Princess, for example, can also ask that gratuities be removed from their folio -- but spokespersons for the lines did not specify if or when crewmembers are notified of such decisions.

 

That leads us to another quandary: Was this really "oops" -- or are lists like the one Wennfred spotted often leaked? stthomaslover, for one, writes, "On my last cruise in January I was being nosy and searching the room stewards cart for some soap. There was a list of all his cabins, room number and a column for tips and I think it said yes and removed ... maybe that's why some people get not so good service while most others have great service."

 

We want to know: Have you ever altered an automatic gratuity during a cruise -- up or down, for any reason -- and experienced a shift in the type of service received? Vote in our poll!

[sottovoce]

I can't imagine why anyone would remove the automatic tip when cruising a line where this is the standard practice. Perhaps the only exception I could see is the case where someone leaves the ship early, as was the case in the cruise cited in the piece quoted above, and that is the only way to reduce the amount to account for the days missed. Other than that, if you don't want to auto-tip, then cruise a line that doesn't have that practice. Sorry...when in Rome, etc.

[cruizinwithkids]

Perfect Stranger perfectly sums up the concern: "I hope another name for it isn't the 'Spit in Food' list."

 

 

I thought everyone who removed their tips did so in order to generously tip the employees who served them best.:rolleyes: I would assume the list would ensure the crew and staff would know who they want to provide that better service to. We all know they don't provide it when they already know they'll get the tips without working hard.

 

Yes people this is sarcasm.

[sottovoce]

I thought everyone who removed their tips did so in order to generously tip the employees who served them best.:rolleyes: I would assume the list would ensure the crew and staff would know who they want to provide that better service to. We all know they don't provide it when they already know they'll get the tips without working hard.

 

Yes people this is sarcasm.

And nicely done at that.;)

[numberguy]

I've only cruised 3 times, all on NCL, with auto-tips.

 

I've never changed tips. However, I have additionally tipped our cabin steward and asst. cabin steward on our 13-day TA. As I cruise more, I'll probably realize other areas where I should tip additionallly.

 

I can't think of a reason to reduce tips. I figure if someone is a bad waiter, for example, s/he'll eventually be demoted/fired. If I had bad service one day, maybe s/he had a bad day. I trust his/her supervisor will take care of things as needed.

 

--Michael

[mylesf]

There goes the "behind the scences" tours! :eek:

[dtracker]

Comment Cards, people! That does a much better job than reducing or eliminating your DSC. You can bet they read them thoroughly and if the crew are as tight as some former crew members have mentioned, the bad ones won't get away with it for long. I believe most genuinely try their hardest at pleasing the pax. :)

 

 

DT

[terrymtex01]

 

Perfect Stranger perfectly sums up the concern: "I hope another name for it isn't the 'Spit in Food' list."

 

 

CG.. thanks for posting that article. A few months ago someone posted, a month before they were leaving for their cruise, that they had every intention of withholding her daily service charge, even though it was her first NCL cruise and had no clue if she was going to have great service or bad. I made the comment that I felt it was brave of her to post that before she went on her cruise because she was obviously using her not so common name in her CC screen name and she was very specific about which cruise she was going on. I said that she might be careful and not say things like that until she got back from the cruise because crew members do read CC and if they read her posting and figured out who she was she might end up with more in her food that she bargined for and might find her toothbrush used for more than her teeth, etc. Someone who is always very vocal about being completely against the DSC said my posting was a "threat" to her and should be removed. Now I hope he can see I was merely advising her in her best interest of something that a lot of people must have been thinking.

[mypleasure]

An interesting artice, thanks for posting it.

 

Personally I consider the $12 per day to be a cost of cruising and would not cruise if I couldn't afford to pay it. It just goes into my cruise budget as a cost and that is the end of it for me.

 

I doubt I would ever consider removing it either as I think the staff deserve to receive it because of the way the wages and salaries and tipping works in the US. If I had reason to I would write out a comment card or ask to see a manager if necessary but would never penalise a waiter for what a steward did and vice versa.

 

I do wonder if those known to have removed their tips get 'extra special' services!

 

Jean

[Ericktina]

I stumbled across this and thought it was very interesting. Everyone will have their own viewpoint of course, but mine is that this was no accident. It's standard practice and since they were "caught" they are making up excuses. Notice the part in the article that says that NCL & Princess made no comment about when the notify staff that a customer has opted out of the auto gratuity.

CG

Cruise Critic Member Photo Stirs Up Tipping Controversy Cruise Critic member Wennfred recently returned home from a cruise onboard Carnival Splendor and posted pictures from the trip on the Cruise Critic message boards. But, one photo, in particular, has stirred up a bit of controversy on an already-controversial subject: tipping.

 

During a behind-the-scenes ship tour, Wennfred spotted -- and photographed -- a printout of an e-mail posted on a bulletin board. On the e-mail? The names of passengers who removed their prepaid gratuities from their onboard accounts, which left many Cruise Critic members wondering whether such a list could impact service -- particularly for those who opt, instead, to tip specific employees in cash at the end of the cruise -- or general conduct among crew.

 

Perfect Stranger perfectly sums up the concern: "I hope another name for it isn't the 'Spit in Food' list."

 

Carnival spokeswoman Jennifer de la Cruz says that the note was not supposed to have been posted, telling the New York Post, "I've confirmed that this is absolutely not standard protocol and should not have happened. Crewmembers are not informed of which guests removed their gratuities until after the voyage is completed and guests have disembarked. This information should not have been posted, and shoreside management is in communication with this vessel to ensure that it doesn't happen again."

 

It's also important to remember that the sailing in question -- the April 28 departure of Carnival Splendor -- was out of the ordinary in that it was supposed to go to the Mexican Riviera, but didn't, due to last-minute, swine-flu-related itinerary changes. That resulted in some disappointed passengers' decisions to disembark in Long Beach a few days early.

 

voyagefiend says, "I'm one of the whiners that left the ship on Thursday ... too many sea days make me sick. I travel for the ports! I went to the purser -- what a chore (with all the obnoxious people abusing Carnival employees). What a shame, they were powerless. I was told there was no way to adjust the tips based on being on the ship four days except to take it out and tip in cash. So I guess my name is on the list ... I would never purposely stiff any of those wonderful hard-working folks!"

 

We won't get into the argument here of which method of tipping is proper or best -- Cruise Critic members are already discussing that at length on a thread entitled The Prepaid Gratuities Removed List, which, at press time, numbered some 13 pages. But, we will tackle this question: What exactly is supposed to happen when you decide to adjust the amount of the automatic gratuity?

 

Again, according to de la Cruz, Carnival crewmembers are supposed to be informed of which guests removed gratuities only after the cruise ends. Other lines we contacted didn't have such information handy. Passengers on Norwegian Cruise Line and Princess, for example, can also ask that gratuities be removed from their folio -- but spokespersons for the lines did not specify if or when crewmembers are notified of such decisions.

 

That leads us to another quandary: Was this really "oops" -- or are lists like the one Wennfred spotted often leaked? stthomaslover, for one, writes, "On my last cruise in January I was being nosy and searching the room stewards cart for some soap. There was a list of all his cabins, room number and a column for tips and I think it said yes and removed ... maybe that's why some people get not so good service while most others have great service."

 

We want to know: Have you ever altered an automatic gratuity during a cruise -- up or down, for any reason -- and experienced a shift in the type of service received? Vote in our poll!

What happened to all the replies that were on here yesterday??? I thought the info from the person who had worked on the ships for many years were very helpful...

[JohnIreland]

Am I the only one who already assume it worked this way ?

[G-Funk]

Nice scumbag move on the part of the cruise lines - as though this list is necessary for them to do their jobs.

[noreddye]

I do not mind paying the DSC however I wish they would just add it into the total cost of the cruise. We have never removed a DSC and can not think of any reason why we would.

 

Thanks for posting the article.

[sjbdtz]

Nice scumbag move on the part of the cruise lines - as though this list is necessary for them to do their jobs.

 

 

hardly a "scumbag" move.

 

They need to advise the staff which rooms have removed the SC, so that any "cash" tips can be turned in to the tip pool.

 

 

 

As for the person who doesn't believe that people will "try" unless there's a potential tip at the end for them.....let me ask this:

 

Do you get paid at work, or do you just work and hope that your boss will feel magnaminous at the end of a week and give you a bonus?

 

If you're like most people, you get paid a basic wage with the potential of additional incentives (in whatever form).

 

On a cruiseline, what WE consider to be TIPS, or GRATUITIES.... is their full income. There are no other income supports.

 

So would someone "try"? Of course they would, since it's their job...and without trying, they would not HAVE the job....and even though there are misers who would steal from these staff, the jobs on the whole are better than those which are alternatives in some of their home nations.

 

 

The one thing I find mildly off-putting is the number of people who qualify the fact that they leave the SC as-is, by seemingly trying to out-do each other with how much EXTRA they tip.

 

When we cruise, we leave the SC as-is....but have only tipped extra when using extra services (auto-tip @ bar, spa, concierge, butler, etc.).

 

We have not felt compelled to add additional tips, and to newbie cruisers would say you do not have ANY ANY ANY obligation or expectation to do so.

 

The $12/day is all you need to tip, for basic food/shelter. I understand that the cover charge at the surcharge restaurants is used partially to tip the extra staff there.

 

If you use services which don't apply to everyone (kid's club, bar, spa, casino, concierge, butler), please realize that these people are not covered by the tip pool, but in the case of the bar & spa....a gratuity is automatically added to your bill....so if you fill in the "tip" line with more, you're double-tipping them!!!!

[gooch47]

I'm assuming this is true on NCL, too, but isn't this list provided so crew members can know if they need to add cash tips to the pool? Can't they only keep cash tips if they are over and above the automatic gratuity?

[CruisnGram]

Here's my take on the info that's contained in this article.

 

We've heard over and over here on CC that on NCL ships, if you remove your DSC, then the crew is obligated to turn in all cash tips they receive from you to be added to the tip pool. If you don't remove the DSC, they get to keep the tips. Although it's never been said outright, or asked about, the natural question here is; how do the employee's know that you've removed the DSC and if they must or must not turn in any cash you give them? Well, I for one always assumed (yes, I know what assuming does :)) that a list was generated and distributed to the employees. How else would the employee's know? And this article simply confirms that. I actually have a mental visual of some bulletin board with a list posted in bold red lettes labeled "Cheap Sheet". LOL I don't for one minute believe that Carnival "made a mistake" by posting that list. I think it's common practice and they feel they need to CYA.

 

I do find it hilarious (sorry, I have a dark sense of humor) that this article gives a new slant on what removing that DSC might provoke in the form of things being in your food that you don't want there. Those that remove the DSC always say that service is worse if you leave it on and that employee's need incentive in the form of a probable tip in order to give excellent service. So their rationale is that if they remove the DSC, the employee's will go above and beyond to give them service in order to get that cash tip. But according to this article......perhaps they should rethink that approach and consder that revenge can be sweet! LOL

 

CG

[*Wink*]

What a gem you found, CG.. Gotta love it!

 

I don't understand why people are afraid their names are put on a list. If you're going to do the crime, you best accept the time, right? They want their cake ... and all that. cliche, I'm aware.

 

The point is, If you feel you have the right to remove the DSC then you should not be ashamed or afraid of what the outcome will be. That would be cowardly, IMHO. :D

[G-Funk]

I find it particularly funny that the people that so many express unending gratitude to (and claim they provide multitudes of extra tips) could be imagined to spit in food and foul toothbrushes by those same fans.

 

I prefer to think more of my fellow humans.

[Mooder]

Fascinating. I agree with G-Funk and Wink, I don't assume anything bad will happen to those on the list, AND if you're on the list, don't hide from your own convictions!

 

The question in my mind is why the crew mut turn in cash tips from anyone on the list?!?!? :confused: It doesn't make sense to me. Eliminate that and you eliminate the need for the list. The crew should only be informed if the DSC is removed because of a problem, then the crew member(s) involved should be informed, of course.

 

Finally, I am in the group who considers it part of the cost of cruising and would never consider removing the DSC.

[ZoneHPH]

i am ready and willing to accept flames.

 

 

EDIT: we all speak from a perspective of being a pax. i would like to stick up for those who make our cruises enjoyable.

 

 

having had my stint in the service industry to provide myself with money for college, i can only speak for myself:

 

- i can tell a good tipper from a bad right from the beginning of their meal after i introduce myself. and if you don't think people have categorized good and bad tippers in the F&B industry...you're kidding yourselves.

- yes i have been proven wrong many times.

- if i'm being run around above and beyond what is necessary, knowing i won't get tipped accordingly...i back off on my service and take care of my other tables. to sacrifice all your other tables to make one happy is poor table management.

- customers are NOT ALWAYS right.

 

if Carnival does not "officially" post pax names...then i propose that it was an inside leak. if i was one of the many hard working crew members, i sure as heck would like to know who deserves my services and who doesn't. as long as i'm well within my responsibilities, i'll keep my employement...but to bend over backwards for "stiffers"...never!

[firefly4423]

WOW thanks

[Sea Hound]

i am ready and willing to accept flames.

 

 

EDIT: we all speak from a perspective of being a pax. i would like to stick up for those who make our cruises enjoyable.

 

 

having had my stint in the service industry to provide myself with money for college, i can only speak for myself:

 

- i can tell a good tipper from a bad right from the beginning of their meal after i introduce myself. and if you don't think people have categorized good and bad tippers in the F&B industry...you're kidding yourselves.

- yes i have been proven wrong many times.

- if i'm being run around above and beyond what is necessary, knowing i won't get tipped accordingly...i back off on my service and take care of my other tables. to sacrifice all your other tables to make one happy is poor table management.

- customers are NOT ALWAYS right.

 

if Carnival does not "officially" post pax names...then i propose that it was an inside leak. if i was one of the many hard working crew members, i sure as heck would like to know who deserves my services and who doesn't. as long as i'm well within my responsibilities, i'll keep my employement...but to bend over backwards for "stiffers"...never!

This leads me to the obvious (to me) question that nobody's asked yet:

 

How much of the $12/pp (or whatever, depending on cruiseline) actually makes it to the staff? How much is held out by the cruiseline for "administrative costs?"

 

Sea Hound:D <-- just wondering.

[*Wink*]

This leads me to the obvious (to me) question that nobody's asked yet:

 

How much of the $12/pp (or whatever, depending on cruiseline) actually makes it to the staff? How much is held out by the cruiseline for "administrative costs?"

 

Sea Hound:D <-- just wondering.

SH ~ Hello Dear, BTW.

 

I've called NCL and asked this very question. In speaking to someone in Admin., I was told that 100% of the DSC goes to 3 service areas. 1) The Maitre 'd and they're underlings 2) the cabin stewards, and 3) to the restaurant servers.

 

100%

 

Now this is for NCL.. When asked about NCLA, I was told that information would not be divulged to me.

 

Hope that helps in your quest for an answer. ;)

[Sea Hound]

SH ~ Hello Dear, BTW.

 

I've called NCL and asked this very question. In speaking to someone in Admin., I was told that 100% of the DSC goes to 3 service areas. 1) The Maitre 'd and they're underlings 2) the cabin stewards, and 3) to the restaurant servers.

 

100%

 

Now this is for NCL.. When asked about NCLA, I was told that information would not be divulged to me.

 

Hope that helps in your quest for an answer. ;)

Hey, Wink! I should've known you'd be three steps ahead of me!

 

I'm glad that's the answer!:D I'd hate to think that "corporate" was holding out on the working stiffs!;) The staff deserve every penny of that money!

 

SH:D

[dtracker]

i am ready and willing to accept flames.

 

 

EDIT: we all speak from a perspective of being a pax. i would like to stick up for those who make our cruises enjoyable.

 

 

having had my stint in the service industry to provide myself with money for college, i can only speak for myself:

 

- i can tell a good tipper from a bad right from the beginning of their meal after i introduce myself. and if you don't think people have categorized good and bad tippers in the F&B industry...you're kidding yourselves.

- yes i have been proven wrong many times.

- if i'm being run around above and beyond what is necessary, knowing i won't get tipped accordingly...i back off on my service and take care of my other tables. to sacrifice all your other tables to make one happy is poor table management.

- customers are NOT ALWAYS right.

 

if Carnival does not "officially" post pax names...then i propose that it was an inside leak. if i was one of the many hard working crew members, i sure as heck would like to know who deserves my services and who doesn't. as long as i'm well within my responsibilities, i'll keep my employement...but to bend over backwards for "stiffers"...never!

 

ZoneHPH, this is not meant to be a criticism, but just an observation. You mention when a customer is "running" you around more than necessary, you make the decision they are a bad tipper and back off on your service. I admit my DW is a little high maintenance when it comes to knowing what she wants and when she wants it.

 

I generally start tipping at 20% for normal service, and go up from there because I know she can be a bit demanding. You said you can tell when a customer is a poor tipper...well I can tell when a waiter is a poor server, as well. Pre-judging a customer and backing off from giving them that little bit extra may be making your experience a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. JMHO.

 

It doesn't pay to pre-judge people, because you will often be surprised, and in doing so, you may be cutting off your nose to spite your face. :eek: If you are disappointed sometimes, at least you can have the satisfaction that they received the best service of their lives at your table. :D Bon Appetit!

 

DT