Gambling in Bermuda?

[lj1231]

I thought I had read last year that the Bermuda government was going to allow casinos to open while in Bermuda. Did this ever go through?

[LOWTYD]

I think there were some recent post on this and, no, it did not go through.:(

[14ersco]

From the Bermuda Sun (www.bermudasun.org):

 

 

Friday, May 29, 2009

 

Sun exclusive

Cruise line gambling threat

Delays to gambling law ‘could see cruise ships pull the plug’

 

Tim Hall

 

Friday, May 29, 2009

 

 

Hamilton and St. George's risk losing their last remaining cruise ships because of dilly-dallying by politicians over gambling, tourism bosses fear.

 

Premier Dr. Ewart Brown is championing a bill that would allow cruise ships to operate their casinos while in port between 10pm and 6am.

 

The bill has not made it as far as a vote, having been blocked at committee stage by anti-gambling MPs on both sides of the political aisle. According to insiders,

 

Department of Tourism bosses believe the delay is threatening to

 

become a critical issue.

 

A dwindling number of smaller cruise ships are able to fit into Hamilton and St. George's - and these high-end lines are threatening to stay away if they cannot

 

operate their lucrative casinos at night. So far, only one cruise line has booked to come to Hamilton and St. George's for the 2010

 

season.

 

That company, Holland

 

America Line, recently wrote to Government to say it is re-evaluating its options because of

 

Parliament's inability to change antiquated gambling laws.

 

Another cruise line has also written to the department to say it would like to reduce its stay in Bermuda so it can spend longer at sea, where it can operate its

 

casinos. The letter from Holland America Line, seen by the Bermuda Sun, says a major part of its decision to come to Bermuda was the expectation that the island's strict gambling laws were going to be relaxed.

 

The cruise line is "very disappointed" with the "recent turn of events."

 

The letter, from the company's president and chief executive officer Stein Kruse, reads: "As you are well aware, the decision to commit a premium cruise ship to the Bermuda market was not preordained or easy. In fact, the project involves considerable risks on our part...While we have enjoyed a strong partnership with Bermuda for many of our 135 years in business, we have not marketed a regular program since 1983. Bermuda has little or no recent track record of success with other premium or luxury cruise brands."

 

The letter goes on to say that most of Bermuda's cruise traffic is "high-volume" low-value custom and that over two years Holland America plans to bring 35,000 high-spending visitors to Hamilton and St. George. The letter, addressed to Dr. Brown, ends: "[We] look forward to quick and decisive action on the part of your parliamentary colleagues in support of our argument."

 

Dr. Brown hopes to push the legislation through before this session of parliament ends in mid to late summer. If the issue is still deadlocked the bill will have to begin again from scratch.

 

A Department of Tourism insider said the issue has become critical because the high-end cruise lines are watching before they draw up their 2011 schedules. He said the gambling bill had effectively become "a referendum" on whether politicians wanted to see cruise ships in the two towns. "It is not so critical for Dockyard," he said. "The big cruise liners up there - if they decide not to come because of the gambling issue then there is a good chance we could find another ship to take its place. But fewer and fewer ships can fit into Hamilton and St. George.

 

"There is a dwindling pool. Therefore, if we want to attract any of that dwindling pool, rather than pushing it away, we have to do everything we possibly can. Holland America is the only company to have committed to 2010/2011. They are telling us that gambling revenue is a vital part of their business. Are cruise ships important to St. George and Hamilton, or not? We are hearing from the corporations of those towns and from the chamber of commerce that they believe they are important."

 

The source said another cruise line, due into Dockyard this year, has requested to reduce its regular stay from three nights to two. It wants to use the extra time at sea, where it can reap more revenue from gambling and entertainment.

 

Related Links

 

 

 

 

 

 

Content © 2009 Bermuda Sun Ltd. Software © 1998-2009 1up! Software, All Rights Reserved

[scrinchy]

Does Bermuda really need the money?

[LOWTYD]

Does Bermuda really need the money?

 

 

From what has been said in the past, The casino's wouldn't open until after 10:00pm and Bermuda doesn't have much of a nightlife so what's the difference. Most people are spending their bucks during the day. And what do you do with all those extra people on the ship that are usually in the casino? Do they have extra shows or more entertainment to keep them occupied? Just wondering....:confused:

[ZoneHPH]

i have been to bermuda a few times. i can't say there is a whole heck of a lot i would want to do at night in bermuda...especially if your docked at St. George's or Dockyard. but most ships these days (as mentioned) can't get into Hamilton.

 

if NCL had a ship that continued to port in Hamilton, THEN i would spend my times at the bars in port. but as it is...(i'll use the Dawn as an example)...Dockyard doesn't really have much going on.

 

i would like to think an agreement on that could be made. heck, if they allow gambling i would hope that NCL could lower the cost of the cruise (which is a huge reason why the bermuda itinerary is pricey).

[njhorseman]

Does Bermuda really need the money?

 

 

Tourism is a major contributor to Bermuda's economy, and cruise ship tourism is a significant percentage of that total. If the cruise lines were to pull out of Bermuda, the economy would definitely feel the pain.

[njhorseman]

From what has been said in the past, The casino's wouldn't open until after 10:00pm and Bermuda doesn't have much of a nightlife so what's the difference. Most people are spending their bucks during the day. And what do you do with all those extra people on the ship that are usually in the casino? Do they have extra shows or more entertainment to keep them occupied? Just wondering....:confused:

 

The difference is if people start losing significant amounts of money in the casino, they're going to have less to spend while in Bermuda.

 

Personally, I find Bermuda to be one of the best spots on earth to just relax, and i'm quite content to soak up some of that crisp Bermuda air at night.

[negc]

The government was forced to withdraw its proposal to allow casinos on the ships to open at 10 pm while docked in Bermuda because of strong opposition from one segment of the elected government. There are two definite factions in tiBermuda which hold quite different views of the value of cruise passengers to the Bermudan economy. One faction is pro-cruise ship and has tried to encourage visits by cruise ships while still maintaining control over the number and size of the cruise ships allowed to visit the island. The opposition feels that cruise ship passengers spend considerably less on the island (especially in the pubs and restaurants) than do tourists who fly to and stay on the island in their hotels and guest houses. They are less enthusiastic about supporting any legislation which would cause passengers to remain on the ships where they will not be contributing to the well-being of the local economy. Unless, or until, one faction achieves a larger majority among the Bermuda citizenry, we are likely to see conflicting signals from Bermuda as to just how much encouragement cruiselines will receive to visit the island. The fact that, with financial support from NCL, they built Heritage Wharf at the Dockyard and improved the tourist-related facilities in that area is a good sign. Their inability or unwillingness to loosen restrictions on the number of cruise passengers they will allow on the island and to allow casino operations onboard, is certainly less encouraging. If the numbers for expeinditures by cruise passengers were to approach the amounts spent by guests at land-based facilities, we might see a different attitude but until then the conflicting views will create continued uncertainty.:rolleyes:

[jollyjones]

There is also (this is an observation, not my personal opinion) strong opposition from religious groups who are opposed to gambling from a moral point of view, and see allowing gambling on cruise ships as the thin end of the wedge that might lead to casinos on land with all the crime and social harm they bring with them.

[SailBadtheSinner]

latest news on the continuing saga:

 

http://www.royalgazette.com/siftology.royalgazette/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d961af30030002&sectionId=60

 

 

 

 

SBtS

[iheartbda]

 

Sorry to get a bit OT here but it is more of an inability due to the small size of Bermuda. There are only so many the infrastructure can support, therefore they want only a certain number of people on the island at one time.

 

It's not just a matter of loosening restrictions, and that may not be what you mean, but there are people who don't understand that Bermuda, being only 21 square miles, cannot accommodate unlimited numbers of visitors.

[Pianoman6582]

I just don't get it. My Lee and I went to Bermuda in October of 2008. In fact, it was the second-to-last trip the Dawn made to Bermuda that year since taking over for the now Fred Olsen Flagged NCL Crown's NY-Bermuda run. We spent three days and two nights there. In the three days, we took the public ferries to Hamilton and St George, took the public buses, bought glass from the glass blowers, took a local tour, bought lunch from the local eateries, enjoyed a Bermudan Diet Pepsi (before NCL's Fleetwide switch, it was a sooooo welcome change from Coke), enjoyed a Bermuda purchased Nantucket Nectar (Pineapple Orange Guava). We bought more Rum Cake than we probably should've. At the stroke of 8, when the sidewalks rolled up, most of the passengers filed back onto the boat for the free dinners that are provided onboard and the shows that follow. Yes the Dawn was at Dockyard, but there didn't seem to be any much (yes I said any much, blame my grandmother) point in staying in Hamilton or st. George ether. The bars and restaurants close at the same time every night--EARLY, that is TOO EARLY.

 

I've read all these articles like this one.....(http://www.royalgazette.com/siftology.royalgazette/Article/article.jsp?articleId=7d961af30030002&sectionId=60), and asked anyone who would answer at NCL; It seems to me, the Bermudans just can't get it together. They don't realize that the 8 ba-jillion people that cruise here every year would be happy to have another sea day (as NCL is talking about) to gamble and hang out on the ship. The Crown, the Dream, are already gone. The Majesty is soon to follow next year. Then the smallest boat going to Bermuda on the NCL Line will be the Spirit. And I don't think the Spirit can make the inlet either. Wake Up Bermuda! Allowing gamblers to gamble on board from 10 til 6 when there's nothing else going on ashore anyway costs you nothing! However, NOT allowing this may cost you your cruise industry!

Of course, in the words Dennis Miller, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

And I Thank You

JWK: Wanting to Double Down on the Dockyard.....

[iheartbda]

At the stroke of 8, when the sidewalks rolled up, most of the passengers filed back onto the boat for the free dinners that are provided onboard and the shows that follow. Yes the Dawn was at Dockyard, but there didn't seem to be any much (yes I said any much, blame my grandmother) point in staying in Hamilton or st. George ether. The bars and restaurants close at the same time every night--EARLY, that is TOO EARLY.

Restaurants don't close at 8:00 and early for some is not early for others.;)

 

Allowing gamblers to gamble on board from 10 til 6 when there's nothing else going on ashore anyway costs you nothing! However, NOT allowing this may cost you your cruise industry!

 

I agree that there is not a whole lot going on but there are other things going on besides gambling costing them nothing.

 

Many in Bermuda oppose gambling on moral grounds. Whether anyone here considers it immoral or not makes no difference.

 

Another aspect that is being debated is whether or not it would be discriminatory. So the question becomes, how do they allow it on ships, but not in Bermuda itself even if they would overcome the moral opposition?

 

It's not as easy as many here seem to think. Bermuda has many things to sort out. Unfortunately, it seems someone jumped the gun and made it seem like allowing gambling was a "done deal".

 

 

Jollyjones already posted much the same thing and they should know, living in Bermuda.

[fin]

Even local NY governments have historically betrayed some schizophrenic attitudes about gambling, busting mobsters and their minions for running numbers while simultaneously spending tax dollars to promote the state lottery (worse odds and worse payoffs) to 'help education'.

[scrinchy]

i have been to bermuda a few times. i can't say there is a whole heck of a lot i would want to do at night in bermuda...especially if your docked at St. George's or Dockyard. but most ships these days (as mentioned) can't get into Hamilton.

 

if NCL had a ship that continued to port in Hamilton, THEN i would spend my times at the bars in port. but as it is...(i'll use the Dawn as an example)...Dockyard doesn't really have much going on.

 

i would like to think an agreement on that could be made. heck, if they allow gambling i would hope that NCL could lower the cost of the cruise (which is a huge reason why the bermuda itinerary is pricey).

 

There are places to go at night in Bermuda. The crew usually know the best spots. My SIL partied tll 3 in the morning at one of the clubs.

 

So far Bermuda has managed to keep the Island almost crime free and they work very hard at keeping drugs out. I don't blame them for being leary of gambling. One of the charms of Bermuda is that it is a relaxing and beautiful island.

[salty dingo]

I never missed gambling during the three nights docked at St. George's. There may not be a lot of night life there, but there is plenty of places to spend money during the day.

 

It stands to reason that people have only so much money to spend and if the casino is open at night there will be less to spend onshore during the day.

 

There is ample opportunity to gamble at sea to and from BDA... I think it is a business decision about how to employ the trained casino staff during the extended time in port.

 

I think BDA is wise to continue the restrictions.

[Parrot Mom]

There is one shop manager (a well known china/antique shop) that does not want to encourage cruisers, BECAUSE they do not spend the $$$ that people staying at hotels do. This was told directly to me as I was purchasing english porcelain.. I was on the NCL Majesty at the time in St. George.. This particular man might be ticked as he invested quite a bit of $$$$$ in a new shop on Front Street and last time.. it was closed. Most Bermudians welcome tourists with open arms and friendliness which I can say we did not feel in St. Barts. I will be very surprised if they allow Holland to start gambling.. which means they will have to allow all the other cruise lines.. They already relaxed their entertainment laws for the ships.

[iheartbda]

...... I will be very surprised if they allow Holland to start gambling.. which means they will have to allow all the other cruise lines......

I don't think they are looking at allowing only HAL to open their casinos, it would be for all cruise lines. HAL is having an "issue" with BDA since they got the impression that it wa a definite. They are rethinking sending a ship for 2011 but have already committed for 2010.

[LemurCat]

I don't think they are looking at allowing only HAL to open their casinos, it would be for all cruise lines. HAL is having an "issue" with BDA since they got the impression that it wa a definite. They are rethinking sending a ship for 2011 but have already committed for 2010.

 

Seems to me like HAL is trying to bring some pressure to bear on the issue, may hoping a couple of other lines will jump on the bandwagon so to speak to really force things. Coming from a town with a tourist industry myself, I can understand why there might be some resentment over the issue.

 

I like to gamble (a lot) but I also respect the local goverment's decision regarding this issue. It's complex. And I can't say that gambling has always provided the boon everyone thinks it will/does.

[Leafpeeper]

We would like to take the Boston to Bermuda cruise on NCL Spirit in 2010. DH will miss having the casino open too. I do wish NCL would add a couple other ports besides Bermuda. Martha's Vineyard, Portland, or Newport would nice ports of call for the Boston to Bermuda cruises.

[oceannotion]

Here's the way I see it. It's a separation of ship and state. As most Bermudians lock up for the night, the passengers return to the ship. At a given hour, the casino opens for play. The locals can't get on the ship to gamble, and the passengers can't gamble on the island. The casual player is likely to spend the same amount on the island, casino or not. The fanatical player is probably on another itinerary altogether as 7 or 8 hours is not enough. To determine if it works or not, how about a trial run...say, 3 or 6 months. That should give everyone the answer to this crazy dilemma.

[2Cruise4Ever]

Here's the way I see it. It's a separation of ship and state. As most Bermudians lock up for the night, the passengers return to the ship. At a given hour, the casino opens for play. The locals can't get on the ship to gamble, and the passengers can't gamble on the island. The casual player is likely to spend the same amount on the island, casino or not. The fanatical player is probably on another itinerary altogether as 7 or 8 hours is not enough. To determine if it works or not, how about a trial run...say, 3 or 6 months. That should give everyone the answer to this crazy dilemma.

 

That's what the proposed law states: casino and shops open from 10:00 p.m. until 6:00 a.m. The few pm's that oppose the law are stating moral reasons as well as their theory that those who gamble on the ship will have less money to spend on the island altogether. I wish they'd just make a decision and be done with it.

[negc]

We would like to take the Boston to Bermuda cruise on NCL Spirit in 2010. DH will miss having the casino open too. I do wish NCL would add a couple other ports besides Bermuda. Martha's Vineyard, Portland, or Newport would nice ports of call for the Boston to Bermuda cruises.

 

Unless they were to establish longer cruises, adding additional ports would seriously reduce the amount of time spent in Bermuda, which most people feel is already too short to really enjoy all that the island has to offer. Longer cruises would also reduce the number of potential customers since many vacationers are limited in the amount of time they have available and 7 night cruises best suit their needs. NCL needs to attract more, not fewer, cruisers and as attractive an itinerary such as you describe might be, it is more likely that the current 7 night cruise to Bermuda from Boston or New York is the most profitable itinerary that they can offer.

[nyflush]

There are places to go at night in Bermuda. The crew usually know the best spots. My SIL partied tll 3 in the morning at one of the clubs.

 

So far Bermuda has managed to keep the Island almost crime free and they work very hard at keeping drugs out. I don't blame them for being leary of gambling. One of the charms of Bermuda is that it is a relaxing and beautiful island.

 

Bermuda is not almost crime free as crime is on the rise:

CRIME: Bermuda has a moderate but growing crime rate

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1067.html

 

Drive by shootings last weekend killed one and injured three.

http://www.newser.com/article/d98e4ijg2/bermuda-premier-wants-more-police-after-shootings.html

 

They think the shootings are part of the rise in gangs and drugs in Bermuda:

http://www.bermudasun.bm/main.asp?SectionID=24&SubSectionID=270&ArticleID=41573&TM=31394.4

 

Of course Bermuda has other crimes such as: Common crimes include burglary, mugging, theft of unattended baggage and belongings, and theft of items from rental scooters.

http://www.fco.gov.uk/en/travelling-and-living-overseas/travel-advice-by-country/north-central-america/bermuda

 

My last visit to Bermuda I felt safe but I was also back onboard the ship by 6pm.

 

I love Bermuda and the people but I will not be walking around after 10pm with my 13 year old or even with husband. I will be on the ship having dinner and enjoying a show and I hope the casino in the near future:)

 

Most summer cruises on large ships have 800+ kids (I was on the Dawn)I can't see parents looking for clubs/bars off the ship while the kids are onboard.