HELP! Is it or isn't it against the law to disembark early in Key West.

[valmouche]

Straight from the horses mouth, here is RCCL's answer.... I did not have to fax, I called RCCL and asked for an email or phone number and they gave me this number 1-800-256-6649 (Guest Flight Operations) and she said......NO, this cannot be done! If it we are departing from the US we can disembark in any foreign port BUT NOT A US PORT.

[ccletzgo]

We took a cruise out of Baltimore with the last port of call being Charleston. Alot of people got off in Charleston.

 

I guess if there are special circumstances. We had been sailing around a hurricane and it had been rough the night before..:rolleyes:

[powelweb]

Good to get the official answer for (and from) the OP.

 

And Amybeth4- I take no offense- I'm on the boards to continue to learn, too.

[Aquahound]

Key West is a destination, not a disembarkation point. Key West is not set up for disembarking cruise passengers.

 

Even if it was, as stated, it is not legal to disembark a ship in a U.S. port other than the original scheduled embark/debark points.

 

Sorry. I wish I had seen this thread earlier. I could have given the answer.

[Aquahound]

Whether it is worth $300pp is up to each cruiser!

 

...not to mention a red flag next to your name in a CBP database. ;)

[amybeth4]

And Amybeth4- I take no offense- I'm on the boards to continue to learn, too.

 

Powel, I'm not sure what it was that I said to you because it's 11:20 and I just got home and I'm too lazy to go back a page or two on this thread, but thanks. We all do learn a lot from these boards, even when we sometimes act like we're SURE we know the RIGHT answer (GUILTY AT TIMES) when we're actually wrong.

 

Have a good one. :)

[Sacramento Cruiser]

What about Hawaii cruises. I know they stop in Ensenada but that is only 1/2 hour south of the border so I doubt it would be considered a DISTANT foreign port. Same thing about pacific repo's. They only stop in Vancouver or Victoria? Anyone know the details of the west coast rules?

[smeyer418]

The rules are pretty simple and NOT about to change.

 

A non US flagged ship may not transport a passenger between two different US ports unless its stops at a distant foreign port.

A cruise to no where doesn't transport any one any where so no stop or transport is involved.

A round trip can stop(not permanently discharge a passenger you can get off and return at any US port) as long as it stops at any foreign port(the insular possessions of the US count as foreign ports) and returns to the original place of origin.

A cruise that starts or ends in a foreign port doesn't violate these rules since its not transporting someone to different US port-but a back to back that starts in LA ends in Vancouver and Vancouver to SF is not allowed because the powers that be consider it one continuous cruise. So on the West coast they don't violate these rules either and work out a cruise using these rules. Sometimes the cruise will end in Ensenada and they will bus the people back and then have the ship travel empty of passengers back to SD to start again. Sometimes they will allow TA's who can be considered part of staff and NOT passengers to do a cruise that is technical violation for a passenger. I know its a stretch but it has been allowed.

A repositioning cruise that starts in one US port and ends in another will stop at the aforementioned distant foreign port which as someone correctly said is any port in South America(hence a stop in Cartagena), The ABC islands(considered part of South America), Asia, Africa, Europe or Micronesia.

 

As someone has pointed out this is based on PVSA and opinions of the General Counsel of the Treasury department(Pre DHS the Coast Guard who enforces these rule was a part of the Treasury Department and the opinions are still in effect) and some exemptions also issued under the law by the then secretary of traesury.

 

The reason its not about to change is the same reason that foreign flagged airlines can't transport people between NY and Miami...but code shares can...

[smeyer418]

What about Hawaii cruises. I know they stop in Ensenada but that is only 1/2 hour south of the border so I doubt it would be considered a DISTANT foreign port. Same thing about pacific repo's. They only stop in Vancouver or Victoria? Anyone know the details of the west coast rules?

 

 

 

 

They have stopped these drive by technical stops in Ensenada- they are now at least 4 hours. For a non US flagged ship to Hawaii they need to either return to the same US port with at least one nearby foreign stop or start or end in a foreign port. So they can start in Victoria/Vancouver and end in Hawaii, or start in Hawaii and end on Victoria/Vancouver. Or they can start in Seattle go to Hawaii and do a roundtrip with a stop in Victoria/Vancover before returning to Seattle. The Ensenada ones were roundtrip to San Diego to Hawaii and return I believe and if you check they are now more than a 1/2 hour drive by

[fleckle]

What about Hawaii cruises. I know they stop in Ensenada but that is only 1/2 hour south of the border so I doubt it would be considered a DISTANT foreign port. Same thing about pacific repo's. They only stop in Vancouver or Victoria? Anyone know the details of the west coast rules?

Yes (unfortunately).

The round-trip Hawaii cruises from California only need to make the brief stop in Ensenada without needing to disembark passengers there because they are both embarking and disembarking their passengers at the same U.S. port. Therefore, they are not transporting passengers between two different U.S. ports.

 

However, the one-way Hawaii cruises (to or from the mainland) need to embark or disembark their passengers at Ensenada (or Vancouver) in order to avoid transporting passengers between two different U.S. ports. That is why cruise lines bus their one-way passengers (who are going from San Diego to Hawaii) down to Ensenada to board the ship there instead of letting them board in San Diego.

 

By now you are probably sorry you ever asked, but if all this is as clear as mud, just go have a stiff drink (as I shall also do) and try to forget about it. If you are ever really bored and can't find anything better to do, (or find yourself awake in the middle of the night and need something to put you to sleep) you can always read the Passenger Vessel Services Act.

 

[smeyer418]

finally the fine is against the cruise line not you. there will be no CBP note next to your name but the cruise line WILL collect it from you(its in the cruise contract) and the cruise line will pay it(there was once a class action against the cruise lines when they got a waiver of the fine and didn't return the money to the passengers- NCL paid a large fine-more than a Million dollars- for its non US flagged ships not making it to Kiributi{tarawa} for medical or mechanical reasons)-. No cruise line will knowingly violate the rules because besides the fine the Coast Guard which administers the fines could BAR the ship from US ports for a period of time and if they really wanted to get nasty they could bar the whole cruise line. This has never been done but the threat and consequences are so great that no one wants to be made an example of. It is correct that you have to go through immigration but every time a cruise ship is cleared to enter a US port they go through the same clearance(or they did when the ship first entered a US port). generally on the East coast when going from Canada to the first US port a immigration official is on board or will be at the first US port. I have many times when leaving Halifax on the way to Bar Harbor as an example had to go to the auditorium or other venue to say Howdy to a US immigration official(now CBP)....which is about how long it takes.

[Aquahound]

It is correct that you have to go through immigration but every time a cruise ship is cleared to enter a US port they go through the same clearance(or they did when the ship first entered a US port). generally on the East coast when going from Canada to the first US port a immigration official is on board or will be at the first US port. I have many times when leaving Halifax on the way to Bar Harbor as an example had to go to the auditorium or other venue to say Howdy to a US immigration official(now CBP)....which is about how long it takes.

 

U.S. citizens no longer have to clear Immigrations.

[alexw]

Wow, I stirred up a hornets nest.

 

We, are staying in Key west for an additional 4 nights. Just seems like a waste of time and money getting back down to key west after we had just left there 12 hours before. We would only be missing 12 hours of the cruise and 8 of it we would have been sleeping. Hope that answers the questions...Why.

 

Driving back down just seems silly if we can just get off in Key West.

 

I can see that I will haveto fax them and find out for myself which I will do next week since I don't have a fax at home anymore. (Someone should tell RCCL that Fax machines are a thing of the past) But thank you all for your input, albeit.... confusing.

Michelle

 

 

Ahhh, the beauty of the internet is that you dont need a lot of those outdated machines.

 

To send a fax, simply go to this website:

http://faxzero.com/

 

Works great....

 

On another note, this law is really interesting. So a cruise line can be fined for disembarking passengers in the wrong port.

 

But what about the people they kick off the ship due to unruly behaviors? Do they get fined for letting these people go early?

 

Im just curious.

[smeyer418]

Ahhh, the beauty of the internet is that you dont need a lot of those outdated machines.

 

To send a fax, simply go to this website:

http://faxzero.com/

 

Works great....

 

On another note, this law is really interesting. So a cruise line can be fined for disembarking passengers in the wrong port.

 

But what about the people they kick off the ship due to unruly behaviors? Do they get fined for letting these people go early?

 

Im just curious.

 

yes they will be fined and they make the passenger pay it too(most of the time they will wait until its a foreign port where they won't be fined)

[smeyer418]

U.S. citizens no longer have to clear Immigrations.

Paul are you sure? I just came back and had to go through the immigration line. there of course is a trusted traveler program but that still requires a Kiosk clearance....they don't trust anyone...

 

It may be that on a ship where there is no clearance off the ship they have a list of whom they want to see but I can assure you that they are all cleared before the ship is allowed to disembark...

[Aquahound]

Paul are you sure? I just came back and had to go through the immigration line. there of course is a trusted traveler program but that still requires a Kiosk clearance....they don't trust anyone...

 

This is one of those Fed rules that never really made sense to begin with. But some time last year, they did away with this (at least, on some itineraries). For example, The Majesty comes in to Key West every Thursday, arriving from the Bahamas. Also, The AOS hits St.Thomas on her Aruba route after having visited a foreign port. These are two itineraries that I know of in which U.S. citizens no longer had to clear Immigrations. If they reinstated this, it's news to me.

 

Of course these routes may have exceptions due to the distant foreign port thing, and a Bahamas excemption.

 

Also, on Caribbean routes, U.S. Citizens are now able to walk right past the Immigrations line upon disembarking. This made my recent Majesty and Solstice disembarkations a breeze!

[smeyer418]

This is one of those Fed rules that never really made sense to begin with. But some time last year, they did away with this (at least, on some itineraries). For example, The Majesty comes in to Key West every Thursday, arriving from the Bahamas. Also, The AOS hits St.Thomas on her Aruba route after having visited a foreign port. These are two itineraries that I know of in which U.S. citizens no longer had to clear Immigrations. If they reinstated this, it's news to me.

 

Of course these routes may have exceptions due to the distant foreign port thing, and a Bahamas excemption.

 

Also, on Caribbean routes, U.S. Citizens are now able to walk right past the Immigrations line upon disembarking. This made my recent Majesty and Solstice disembarkations a breeze!

 

yes but remember the ship must submit the names, addresses and DOB of each passenger to DHS and immigration. The ship checks your id before you board. On a roundtrip the chances of someone slipping aboard is pretty small. How do they know you are a US citizen if you just skip the line? couldn't any one do that...

[prc]

I can attest to what Aquahound said as well. Wife & I just did a "double header" on Majesty/Enchantment. Majesty was a return from the Bahamas of course, and Enchantment was a return from KW/Coz/Belize. At both Miami and Port Everglades, we just held up our US passports to get in the US line, which was nothing more than CBP/ICE officer collecting the declaration forms and saying "welcome back" over and over. We didn't even have to slow down!

 

This was within the last 2 weeks.

 

 

PRC

[amybeth4]

This is one of those Fed rules that never really made sense to begin with. But some time last year, they did away with this (at least, on some itineraries). For example, The Majesty comes in to Key West every Thursday, arriving from the Bahamas. Also, The AOS hits St.Thomas on her Aruba route after having visited a foreign port. These are two itineraries that I know of in which U.S. citizens no longer had to clear Immigrations. If they reinstated this, it's news to me.

 

Of course these routes may have exceptions due to the distant foreign port thing, and a Bahamas excemption.

 

Also, on Caribbean routes, U.S. Citizens are now able to walk right past the Immigrations line upon disembarking. This made my recent Majesty and Solstice disembarkations a breeze!

 

Because I did a Majesty B2B with the Key West itinerary being first, when we docked in Miami at the end of that first cruise, I didn't even have to get off the ship. I just sat in the library and was handed my new seapass card at about 9:45 and then roamed around all alone with the crew. The woman who gave me my card said, "The ship already cleared customs so you don't have to."

 

When I came home and started reading these boards, someone said that had I gone in the other direction (Key West itinerary second) I would've had to have gotten off.

 

When I did get off after that 2nd cruise, I did have to stand in a pretty long line for immigration but I don't remember if I had to show my passport. I assume I did. But that 2nd cruise never stopped in a US port.

[Aquahound]

yes but remember the ship must submit the names, addresses and DOB of each passenger to DHS and immigration. The ship checks your id before you board. On a roundtrip the chances of someone slipping aboard is pretty small. How do they know you are a US citizen if you just skip the line? couldn't any one do that...

 

Trust me. CBP knows all about you prior to disembarking. If there is a hit on your name for anything (even a local warrant), your Sea-Pass will be flagged so you can't disembark. Although, you will probably be paid a visit long before that point.

 

Now, upon disembarking, you show your passport to a ship employee. That person will either direct you to a Immigration line (non U.S. citizens), or to by-pass the line. Now, if you are a U.S. citizen, you just flash your passport, then walk straight to baggage claim.

[robtulipe]

Yes (unfortunately).

The round-trip Hawaii cruises from California only need to make the brief stop in Ensenada without needing to disembark passengers there because they are both embarking and disembarking their passengers at the same U.S. port. Therefore, they are not transporting passengers between two different U.S. ports.

 

However, the one-way Hawaii cruises (to or from the mainland) need to embark or disembark their passengers at Ensenada (or Vancouver) in order to avoid transporting passengers between two different U.S. ports. That is why cruise lines bus their one-way passengers (who are going from San Diego to Hawaii) down to Ensenada to board the ship there instead of letting them board in San Diego.

This is exactly the way it works.

For our one way Radiance to Hawaii cruise in May08 we checked in at the Convention Center in San Diego and were bussed down to Ensenada to board the ship to meet the requirements of the PVSA. Even our luggage was trucked down to Ensenada to meet the Jones Act requirement. The cruise prior to ours was a repositioning from Florida that called in Aruba (a distant foreign port) before sailing through the Panama Canal and disembarking it's passengers in San Diego. The Radiance then sailed without any new passengers, BTB passengers only since they had met the distant foreign port PVSA requirement for disembarking in Honolulu already, to Ensenada to pick the new passengers up. The one way cruise after ours went from Honolulu to Vancouver, BC, Canada, again to meet the above two acts' requirements.

[BruceMuzz]

Aquahound is talking about a new feature of the Closed Loop Program that was introduced last year.

CBP is allowing ships that start and finish a cruise in a US Port (primarily on the East and Southern Coasts), to avoid going through Immigration inspection when they return to the first US port from a foreign port - if they are able to keep their reporting errors below 1%.

If they are able to stay below the 1% threshold, they will only have to go through Immigration/Customs at the end of the cruise.

 

But CBP will still make surprise Immigration Inspections at the first US re-entry port about once every 3 or 4 weeks.

 

Somehow this was explained as a new initiative to make the USA safer from terrorism. More likely it is a way for the CBP to cut costs, hoping nobody notices.

[hotrod1954]

Aquahound is talking about a new feature of the Closed Loop Program that was introduced last year.

CBP is allowing ships that start and finish a cruise in a US Port (primarily on the East and Southern Coasts), to avoid going through Immigration inspection when they return to the first US port from a foreign port - if they are able to keep their reporting errors below 1%.

If they are able to stay below the 1% threshold, they will only have to go through Immigration/Customs at the end of the cruise.

 

But CBP will still make surprise Immigration Inspections at the first US re-entry port about once every 3 or 4 weeks.

 

Somehow this was explained as a new initiative to make the USA safer from terrorism. More likely it is a way for the CBP to cut costs, hoping nobody notices.

when we got off the ship 2 weeks ago we only had to give our dec. forms to customs they never looked at our passports like they have in the past. We did have some one to get flagged behind us with there sea pass card and held up the line for a bit. don't know the reason but our friends was late getting to baggage claims. they said someone got stopped for some reason.

[PhinsAndGills]

I meant to throw this into my post too. Off the ship at 7:30, back to the airport to pick up a car by 8, out of the airport 8:30, in Key West for lunch! :)

My honeymoon was Lauderdale, Key West, Cozumel, Belize. When we got back to Lauderdale, we rented a red convertible Mustang and drove down Route 1 to Key West. It was AWESOME! It was a beautiful day and a beautiful drive. I wouldn't trade that for anything.

 

In my personal opinion, that was a MUCH better way to spend a few hundred dollars rather than a fine to get off early. BUT, that's just me and to each his own. I've seen people pay $800 on a different flight just to avoid an hour layover somewhere. Personally, I wouldn't do that - but it was important to them to get a non-stop, I guess.