Wife: FBI says poss. 'foul play' in Smith/RCI case

[mjldvlks]

. . . . in their mutual agreement with Hagel-Smith they [RCI] admit they could have handled it more "sensitively". . .

Which is essentially meaningless. It neither admits nor denies any specific fact.

[tammy7]

Which is essentially meaningless. It neither admits nor denies any specific fact.

 

Actually they did both! In the end they paid out one million which is pretty typical in these cases.

[SherriZ366]

I followed this story extensively at the time. Vanity Fair magazine did a good job of reporting the story - and was one of the most unbiased accounts going. Greta van Susteren and Nancy Grace were all over it at the time. (Greta's coverage was far superior - surprise surprise :rolleyes:) The widow even appeared on Oprah and was certainly unsympathetic and evasive. While I sympathize with the family's grief, the sister and parents were out of control in their accusations and inability to accept that their son's behavior played any role in the tragedy. The widow's statements on how she was "left" in Turkey were disputed with specific details by RCCL. It's a weird, sad story but the cruise line did nothing wrong - heck, they didn't even serve them the absinthe that probably contributed to both of their extreme intoxication. When you complain about not bringing alcohol on board now, you can point to this case as the most likely reason they enforce it with an iron fist now.

 

By the way - this is the first I've heard of him being on antidepressants. But that kind of mixture could certainly have been lethal - the most common assumption was that he sat on the balcony rail to possibly smoke and fell over. I seem to recall that there was a chair positioned on the balcony that made that scenario appear the most likely. But that's from memory and it's been 4 years...

I followed all the reporting when the incident happened and RCI top executives including RCCL Chairman Richard Fain and RCI Chairman Adam Goldstein visited all these shows with the crew member who accompanied Jennifer Hagel (Smith) during the ordeal. RCCL also published several statements detailing her treatment. She was not just dumped in Turkey.

 

I also agree that the sister and parents were out of control in their accusations and inability to accept that their son's behavior played any role in the tragedy.

 

The Congressional hearing was convened by the Smith's Congressman who, of course, was most responsive to his constituents.

[wolfganghowell]

I'm certain that the corporate lawyers figured out paying out 1 million to make this go away was much better than allowing all the muckraking to continue unchecked. The parents and sister were making libelous and slanderous accusations and the cruise line could do virtually nothing to defend themselves without coming across as insensitive or cruel. They took the high road on numerous occasions. (And no I'm not always a RCCL cheerleader). ;)

[wolfganghowell]

The statements of Jennifer and her parents are very strong. Seeing what she has accomplished in her life since then, I commend her for giving back and evidently learning some basic life lessons from such a terrible tragedy. She made some bad mistakes at the time and in the aftermath, but it seems she has matured and her chosen profession speaks well of her willingness to grow.

[mjldvlks]

Actually they did both! In the end they paid out one million which is pretty typical in these cases.

Huh? Both what?

[halos]

I can not imagine the grief of George's family. And The Wife didn't just pass out in a quiet corner of the 'Brilliance', she was found slumped over, on the floor against a door marked "Crew Only" at 4:30 a.m.

 

ok, so she passed out in a not-so-quiet corner??

what's your point??

 

This whole story smelled bad from day one. I think spending time flirting with other men and getting drunk with other men while on your honeymoon is a bit odd...but maybe that's just me :rolleyes:

 

I followed this story extensively at the time. Vanity Fair magazine did a good job of reporting the story - and was one of the most unbiased accounts going. Greta van Susteren and Nancy Grace were all over it at the time. (Greta's coverage was far superior - surprise surprise :rolleyes:) The widow even appeared on Oprah and was certainly unsympathetic and evasive. While I sympathize with the family's grief, the sister and parents were out of control in their accusations and inability to accept that their son's behavior played any role in the tragedy. The widow's statements on how she was "left" in Turkey were disputed with specific details by RCCL. It's a weird, sad story but the cruise line did nothing wrong - heck, they didn't even serve them the absinthe that probably contributed to both of their extreme intoxication. When you complain about not bringing alcohol on board now, you can point to this case as the most likely reason they enforce it with an iron fist now.

 

By the way - this is the first I've heard of him being on antidepressants. But that kind of mixture could certainly have been lethal - the most common assumption was that he sat on the balcony rail to possibly smoke and fell over. I seem to recall that there was a chair positioned on the balcony that made that scenario appear the most likely. But that's from memory and it's been 4 years...

 

I saw the Oprah interview (which her friend Gayle actually did...and she did a horrific job btw) and that is when I was turned off completely by JHS. She spent that hour whining about how bad RCI treated her...never once did she seem upset that her husband of mere DAYS was dead.

 

I know everyone reacts to trauma differently, but she was so "me, me me" that I wanted to puke.

 

Piece of trash? Hmmmmm. I wouldn't say that.

 

Trash was my impression of her too.

[bluegirlum]

I followed all the reporting when the incident happened and RCI top executives including RCCL Chairman Richard Fain and RCI Chairman Adam Goldstein visited all these shows with the crew member who accompanied Jennifer Hagel (Smith) during the ordeal. RCCL also published several statements detailing her treatment. She was not just dumped in Turkey.

 

I also agree that the sister and parents were out of control in their accusations and inability to accept that their son's behavior played any role in the tragedy.

 

The Congressional hearing was convened by the Smith's Congressman who, of course, was most responsive to his constituents.

 

Her Congressman, Rep. Shays, became quite a voice on cruise issues. I think he had been before this incident, but got much more involved after this. Incidentally, he was defeated in the last election.

 

As an aside, when we originally booked our Brilliance cruise, we actually booked the Smith's cabin. My bf realized this about 10 minutes after we booked it--we had both followed the case and somehow the number [which I didn't recall but you can find easily if you search for it] rang a bell with him. He called RCI to change the room, and the agent was very accommodating. He said that several people have asked for the room to be changed because they felt uncomfortable being in there.

 

I don't know what happened on that night, but I just didn't feel comfortable being in there; I didn't fear any bad mojo or anything, but thought there might be "gawkers." We ended up down the hall from the cabin, and sure enough, there were plenty of people that actually sought out the cabin and took pictures of it and hovered in front of it, talking about how it was "The Smith's Cabin." Our cabin steward says that it happens every sailing...It got to be a bit annoying after the first day.

[halos]

 

And while the Smith's continue to pursue and persecute her, they need to face up to the facts. There is no conspiracy.

 

There may be no conspiracy but JHS knows more than what she has said and the parents WANT to know what that is. if it was your child wouldn't you want to know everything? Also, they knew her, if they are this adamant about her being involved somehow, couldn't it possibly be because they know or sensed something about her before all this and that's why it's easy for them to accuse her of...something?

[pcur]

How quickly the misinformation comes forward. From my recollection, Mr. and Mrs. Smith, along with others they met in a bar, were drinking smuggled absynth. So that eliminates the bartenders from serving too much. The people who escorted Mr. Smith back to his cabin were also observed leaving the cabin, he was still banging around in there and heard by neighbors on both sides. The balcony furniture was dragged around a bit, then a banging noise heard and then quiet, the neighbors fell back to sleep.

 

Mrs. Smith was found a couple hours later passed out on the wrong side of the ship on the floor and taken in a wheelchair back to her cabin. This was around 3/4 am and somehow she managed to get herself to a 9am spa appointment. She did not report him as missing.

 

Around 10 am another cruiser noticed blood on the top of a lifeboat, directly under the Smith cabin. After investigation it was determined Mr. Smith was missing.

 

My guess is that he became fish food only minutes after he fell off by his own accord.

 

That Mrs. Smith indicates the FBI stated foul play was 50/50 is all her own words, according to the linked article.

 

You are correct. If this guy was taking the types of prescription drugs mentioned in the article AND drinking absinthe, then he was a walking zombie. This is the first I've heard about the prescriptions.

 

I have watched interviews with his family, and they are majorily in denial about the incident.

[Happy ks]

I kind of find it a bit amazing that people are actually so concerned about this case after so long. There are hundreds of real murder cases that go unsolved every single year....too bad the media and politicians don't pay as much attention to those.

 

I don't for a minute believe there was any conspiracy going on with this case. Sadly a young man lost his life and his family will never be the same. I know from personal experience there is no closure with a tragic loss such as this, but people do need to move on eventually. Never will they forget and never will the grief be over, but life needs to be lived. There is no bringing him back and no money in the world will soothe the pain.

 

Perhaps if the family instead focused on publicly speaking of the dangers of intoxication and personal responsibility they may save another family the same grief.

[Jaxsonbrownie]

I kind of find it a bit amazing that people are actually so concerned about this case after so long. There are hundreds of real murder cases that go unsolved every single year....too bad the media and politicians don't pay as much attention to those.

 

I don't for a minute believe there was any conspiracy going on with this case. Sadly a young man lost his life and his family will never be the same. I know from personal experience there is no closure with a tragic loss such as this, but people do need to move on eventually. Never will they forget and never will the grief be over, but life needs to be lived. There is no bringing him back and no money in the world will soothe the pain.

 

Perhaps if the family instead focused on publicly speaking of the dangers of intoxication and personal responsibility they may save another family the same grief.

 

Excellent post...! ;)

[tammy7]

I kind of find it a bit amazing that people are actually so concerned about this case after so long. There are hundreds of real murder cases that go unsolved every single year....too bad the media and politicians don't pay as much attention to those.

 

I don't for a minute believe there was any conspiracy going on with this case. Sadly a young man lost his life and his family will never be the same. I know from personal experience there is no closure with a tragic loss such as this, but people do need to move on eventually. Never will they forget and never will the grief be over, but life needs to be lived. There is no bringing him back and no money in the world will soothe the pain.

 

Perhaps if the family instead focused on publicly speaking of the dangers of intoxication and personal responsibility they may save another family the same grief.

 

 

followed up by know the person you marry, and be careful who you befriend.....especially on cruises.

[tammy7]

ok, so she passed out in a not-so-quiet corner??

what's your point??

 

This whole story smelled bad from day one. I think spending time flirting with other men and getting drunk with other men while on your honeymoon is a bit odd...but maybe that's just me :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I saw the Oprah interview (which her friend Gayle actually did...and she did a horrific job btw) and that is when I was turned off completely by JHS. She spent that hour whining about how bad RCI treated her...never once did she seem upset that her husband of mere DAYS was dead.

 

I know everyone reacts to trauma differently, but she was so "me, me me" that I wanted to puke.

 

 

 

Trash was my impression of her too.

 

 

 

I agree, that interview was probably before she hired a publicity manager.

 

And no she wasn't too upset, she was calculating the payout even at that moment imo.

[MrPete]

This "NEW" info made it onto the national TODAY show in the 7:30 hour.

[MrPete]

I kind of find it a bit amazing that people are actually so concerned about this case after so long.

 

I guess there's a grassy knoll on deck 9 too.

 

And when will they leave the Titanic alone?

[pcur]

I'm not surprised it's still of interest to us. I still want to know how Marilyn Monroe died. A mystery is a mystery, and people are always interested in puzzles.

[MAZANDSTEVE]

I'm not surprised it's still of interest to us. I still want to know how Marilyn Monroe died. A mystery is a mystery, and people are always interested in puzzles.

 

 

And I had not heard about it until this thread, so its new to me.

[jmf123]

ok, so she passed out in a not-so-quiet corner??

what's your point??

 

This whole story smelled bad from day one. I think spending time flirting with other men and getting drunk with other men while on your honeymoon is a bit odd...but maybe that's just me :rolleyes:

 

Trash was my impression of her too.

 

My point isn't that she passed out in a not-so-quiet corner...it's the fact that she was found outside a 'Crew Only' door. There was apparently an exchange of words between the newlyweds in the disco, due to her flirting. She allegedly had kicked George in the groin and was seen leaving with the casino manager who rushed out after her as she stormed out. This was around 3:30 a.m.

 

I guess imo, I feel that if she had been with her husband for the hour between 3:30 a.m. and when she was found at 4:30 a.m., that he would very likely still be alive. She made a bad decision to go off with the crewmember if that's what happened, (and ironically, since you mentioned it, appears to have been left outside the Crew door like 'trash').

 

This is a very tragic story and 'true crime' cases are quite interesting to people. Particularly when talked about on a place like CC and they involve a cruise. It's natural to want to speculate and discuss.

[tammy7]

This case is particularly interesting because for one it happened on a cruise. Also, most people that go overboard are usually because of too much alchohol, or they commit sucide. Most are not murdered.

 

This however has it all, and there's a good chance he was murdered because the neighbors next door heard loud noises with furniture being tossed around, and the three men were with him just prior to that. I found it hard to believe that much blood was due to him falling, especially since it wasn't that far below his balcony, so possibly in years to come if one of those men start talking the case may take a different turn.

[wolfganghowell]

Tammy - and any others interested - I really recommend finding the Vanity Fair story that was written at the time. I don't think there was a murder - it appears it was a bunch of stupid drunks and a case of bad behavior from ALL parties. I think the wife handled herself horribly onboard and in the immediate aftermath. It does appear she has been forced to mature and move on. It's just a series of random events that combined for a tragic consequence. I can think of many stupid things I did in my 20s that I'm lucky myself or someone else weren't hurt too. It still appears though that the Smith family has allowed their grief to overtake the healing process and they have turned their misery into an anger that will never be resolved. To this day, they seem to refuse to accept that their son's actions are a major contributor to what happened.

[ccletzgo]

This case is particularly interesting because for one it happened on a cruise. Also, most people that go overboard are usually because of too much alchohol, or they commit sucide. Most are not murdered.

 

This however has it all, and there's a good chance he was murdered because the neighbors next door heard loud noises with furniture being tossed around, and the three men were with him just prior to that. I found it hard to believe that much blood was due to him falling, especially since it wasn't that far below his balcony, so possibly in years to come if one of those men start talking the case may take a different turn.

 

Thats the part that puzzles me so much. Hitting the cover over the life boats on his way down and all that blood? The only think I can imagine is that he lay unconscious bleeding on that cover for a period of time before rolling off of it.

The other part of the story that puzzled me was that when the crew member took the wife to her cabin at 4:30 a.m. they said the balcony doors were closed and the drapes were drawn. That's hard to do from the balcony sober.

We all know about the vacuum affect when the balcony door is open and you open the cabin door, so I don't think this is something the crew member could have made a mistake about.

[halos]

I kind of find it a bit amazing that people are actually so concerned about this case after so long. .

 

I think intrigued is a better description.

[kyriecat]

Thats the part that puzzles me so much. Hitting the cover over the life boats on his way down and all that blood? The only think I can imagine is that he lay unconscious bleeding on that cover for a period of time before rolling off of it.

The other part of the story that puzzled me was that when the crew member took the wife to her cabin at 4:30 a.m. they said the balcony doors were closed and the drapes were drawn. That's hard to do from the balcony sober.

We all know about the vacuum affect when the balcony door is open and you open the cabin door, so I don't think this is something the crew member could have made a mistake about.

The blood stain isn't really that big. Less than 1/4 cup of fluid can make a stain that large. It looks big because the blood spread out and looks like it got smeared. Plus it stands out - red/rusty fluid on a white background.

 

My theory - he fell off the balcony and hit his head when he landed on the lifeboat cover. Head wounds bleed like crazy. Alternately, he could have tried to grab the rail while falling and suffered a cut on his hand or arm. He probably only laid on the cover for a couple of minutes, then, disoriented (from alcohol, the fall, or a combination), rolled the wrong way and fell overboard. It's tragic but not murder.

 

The big mystery to me is why the wife thought he was sleeping elsewhere on the honeymoon. I might not think anything of it if my husband were missing when I got up (he might have run out for a drink or breakfast), but I would definitely notice that his side of the bed wasn't slept in. If he did run out for a while, he normally leaves a note for me so I know where to find him. I do the same for him.

[mafig]

I also remember reading that George liked to sit on the balcony railing and smoke a cigar.

 

 

Also, I go out on the balcony at night. When we come back, the curtains are drawn and I don't open them all the way, just move them aside a little bit to open the door.