US bound flights out of YVR

[NoWhiners]

To all you cruisers using the vancouver airport, here is a description of our experience yesterday:

 

Got to airport really early for our 2:29 departure (we were there between 9 and 9:30 am) only to be told that we wouldn't be allowed to checkin until 3 hours before our flight, because they "don't want too may people on the (secure) side"!!.

 

By the time we were allowed to get in line to check in, there was a long line at US Airways (where there are only 4 positions available at best and they don't even open until after 9 am), which took us an hour to get through. (FYI--Our friends on United took about the same amount of time to get through check in, even with more positions--they had a lot more people flying).

 

We had requested a wheelchair for my mom, which USAir said we didn't need "because it's the first gate on the right out of security". This was true but read on...

 

After you finish checkin at ticket counter, you get checked bags tagged BUT you still need to drag them around thru duty free shop area and to US Customs area. There we waited in a massive line, for about 50-60 minutes, including a full stop on customs clearing anyone while we waited for the massive security line backup (into the back part of customs) to clear out enough to allow customs to process us again.

 

once through cusoms, you drag your bags around a corner to where you can drop them off onto belts to take them out for loading. (Don't expect any of the baggage handlers standing around to help you with this). Then you immediately queue up to get through the security checkpoint. This took another 45 minutes. We had 20 minutes to spare before we boarded our flight!! Just enough time to use restrooms and buy some lunch to eat on flight.

 

My advice:

 

don't get to airport early thinking you will be safe once you get there. Yes, there are places to sit and eat, but you can't check in earlier than 3 hours before, so you aren't as safe as you think. Be sure and eat and drink something and use restrooms before you start check in, just in case the lines are long.

 

Grab a luggage cart on the way in no matter how few bags you have--it will be a lot easier to move them around and if the lines are long you will be grateful for a cart, especially if you have kids or an older relative with you.

 

If you even remotely think you will need a wheelchair, get one!! Yes, you might not have to wait in long lines but if you do it could be really hard on them. My mom barely made it and she is an active 82 year-old.

 

Just my opinion, but I have no idea what they are thinking by limiting check in to 3 hours ahead. There is a lot of space on the secure side and lines could be handled better if they just let people go in when they arrive. I have no idea if it will be like this for the Olympics but I'm glad I won't be flying into US from YVR during them!! By the way, this is for US BOUND flights only--I don't know about the other international flights out of YVR. All US bound flights go through a separate terminal.

 

I really love vancouver but we aren't going to fly through there anymore based on this experience. We went on an alaska cruise 2 years ago and the airport wasn't like this. We will go out of seattle and settle for thier itineraries (which will be a lot better starting next year anyway). Airfare is cheaper too!

 

Just our experience, wanted to pass it on to others, so no flames please.

 

Hope this helps the rest of you out there!

ML

[wildbriar]

We had the same experience, it was a nightmare.

[scottbee]

Just our experience, wanted to pass it on to others, so no flames please.

Too late, you already posted a long flame.

 

 

To all you cruisers using the vancouver airport, here is a description of our experience yesterday:

 

By the time we were allowed to get in line to check in, there was a long line at US Airways (where there are only 4 positions available at best and they don't even open until after 9 am), which took us an hour to get through. (FYI--Our friends on United took about the same amount of time to get through check in, even with more positions--they had a lot more people flying).

Which sounds like a problem with US Airways and United. I normally check in for Alaska and Westjet (US Bound) flights in under 5 minutes, by doing it at a kiosk, which are all over the place at YVR, and support ALL the airlines.

 

We had requested a wheelchair for my mom, which USAir said we didn't need "because it's the first gate on the right out of security". This was true but read on...

USAir

 

After you finish checkin at ticket counter, you get checked bags tagged BUT you still need to drag them around thru duty free shop area and to US Customs area. There we waited in a massive line, for about 50-60 minutes, including a full stop on customs clearing anyone while we waited for the massive security line backup (into the back part of customs) to clear out enough to allow customs to process us again.

I'm sorry you had to wait so long for the US Department of Homeland Security to clear you back into your own country, this is fairly typical of all crossings, the DHS lineups at both the airport and the land borders are 2-3x the wait as the Canada Customs side to enter Canada.

 

 

once through cusoms, you drag your bags around a corner to where you can drop them off onto belts to take them out for loading. (Don't expect any of the baggage handlers standing around to help you with this). Then you immediately queue up to get through the security checkpoint. This took another 45 minutes. We had 20 minutes to spare before we boarded our flight!! Just enough time to use restrooms and buy some lunch to eat on flight.

Again, your bags can't be dealt with until post US Homeland Security, so there's little that can be done, although 45 minutes is a long lineup for Vancouver security (post US Customs/Immegration), I can't say that in the last 5 years of travelling I've ever seen it over 10.

 

don't get to airport early thinking you will be safe once you get there. Yes, there are places to sit and eat, but you can't check in earlier than 3 hours before, so you aren't as safe as you think. Be sure and eat and drink something and use restrooms before you start check in, just in case the lines are long.

Most of your delays were caused by inefficiencies of the US airline and US Department of Homeland Security, I fail to see how this is Vancouver's fault.

 

Grab a luggage cart on the way in no matter how few bags you have--it will be a lot easier to move them around and if the lines are long you will be grateful for a cart, especially if you have kids or an older relative with you.

 

If you even remotely think you will need a wheelchair, get one!! Yes, you might not have to wait in long lines but if you do it could be really hard on them. My mom barely made it and she is an active 82 year-old.

A good idea in any airport you're unfamiliar with, especially when the country you're flying to (USA) requires you to carry your bags to a pre-inspection.

 

Just my opinion, but I have no idea what they are thinking by limiting check in to 3 hours ahead. There is a lot of space on the secure side and lines could be handled better if they just let people go in when they arrive.

I would ask your USA based airline why they do this.

 

 

I really love vancouver but we aren't going to fly through there anymore based on this experience. We went on an alaska cruise 2 years ago and the airport wasn't like this.

Given that all but one of your delays are well out of the hands of the Vancouver Airport Auhtority, and even out of the hands of anything to do with Canadians, I would suggest you write the DHS and USAir about this, rather than blame the Vancouver airport.

 

For your convenience, I've posted the addresses of the organizations you should be in touch with if you were unhappy with your experience, note that the 1st two organizations are located in the United States;

 

US Airways

Attention: Customer Relations

4000 E. Sky Harbor Blvd.

Phoenix, AZ 85034

USA

 

U.S. Department of Homeland Security

Washington, D.C. 20528

USA

 

YVR

P.O. Box 23750 Airport Postal Outlet

Richmond, B.C. V7B 1Y7

CANADA

[Putterdude]

Almost everything that you have described you can lay at the feet of your DHS and US Air and little if any is attributable to YVR. My wife has MS and requires a wheelchair assist and we have never had a problem with any airline beit Canadian or US (confess we have never flown US Air) when flying out of Vancouver but candidly have had long waits for one in major US airpots...both for on departure and arrival. Sorry you had such a bad experience but you know who to blame.

[PennyAgain]

I travel in and out of Canadian airports often and have warned plenty of about being properly prepared for Vancouver on cruise days. I have been so tired of standing in those lines that I have literally sat on the floor. The longest wait is nearly always in that first line which is the wait to clear to return to the US. I agree that the fault often lies exactly there, but

 

As cruise ships get bigger, this problem will as well and not just at Vancouver.

 

If you really need a wheelchair bring your own!

 

In my opinion, many people bring way too much luggage which slows the whole process down. They struggle with their luggage and are even more miserable as a result.

 

And to answer a question asked on another topic on this subject, there are wash rooms along the way.

[scottbee]

I travel in and out of Canadian airports often and have warned plenty of about being properly prepared for Vancouver on cruise days. I have been so tired of standing in those lines that I have literally sat on the floor. The longest wait is nearly always in that first line which is the wait to clear to return to the US. I agree that the fault often lies exactly there, but

 

As cruise ships get bigger, this problem will as well and not just at Vancouver.

 

If you really need a wheelchair bring your own!

 

In my opinion, many people bring way too much luggage which slows the whole process down. They struggle with their luggage and are even more miserable as a result.

 

And to answer a question asked on another topic on this subject, there are wash rooms along the way.

 

The cruise ships really don't add much to the traffic, it's like this a lot. Vancouver is one of the 50 busiest airports in the world handling 75,000-100,000 passengers a day in the summer; and a cruise ship of 2000 (about only 1/2 of which fly in/out that day) adds little to the overall traffic. The biggest wait is "first line which is the wait to clear to return to the US" as you mentioned, a problem which is squarely an American issue. Unfortunately there's no way around it, because if you try crossing by land, you'll come across the same 45-90 minute delay as the US Authorities deal with people. Even if you fly back to the USA from an airport w/o pre-clearance (such as YYJ/Victoria), you'll then be stuck in a 45-90 minute delay at the US end. The number one delay I hear with people boarding cruise ships in Vancouver, is yet-again US pre-clearance.

 

My original response was that it was very unfair to blame Vancouver or the Vancouver airport for something that the USA government controls, or the long lineups at US Air

[Tweedy]

IAs cruise ships get bigger, this problem will as well and not just at Vancouver.

 

Larger cruise ships coming into Vancouver won't be a problem since they will not be able to clear the Lions Gate Bridge.

[Putterdude]

If you really need a wheelchair bring your own!

 

 

Have never had a problem getting a wheelchair and an assist from Air Canada, WestJet, Alaska, United, American or Philippine Airlines.:)

[Langley Cruisers]

Sorry to hear this experience has left a bad taste in your mouth concerning our beautiful Vancouver. However, I think my comrades have explained the situation brilliantly, and I do hope you choose to believe that it was not "our fault", so to speak. However, I do understand you are simply relaying your experience and voicing your frustration. Part of my frustration as a Vancouverite is when people (not you) say, "I don't know how that airport will handle the Winter Olympic Games next year!". Again, I revert back to my comrades who explained the situation is beyond our control.

 

 

We had requested a wheelchair for my mom, which USAir said we didn't need "because it's the first gate on the right out of security".

 

Now this is inexcusable, IMO. Your mom should have had that wheelchair. I truly believe you should take this up with them, I really do. It's not up to USAir to decide which passengers do and do not "need" a wheelchair, especially since one was requested.

[NoWhiners]

To all you Vancourites out there--

 

I probably wasn't as clear as I might have been--my observations were about our experience at the YVR airport, with no specific blame to the airport involved. I spent a lot of time reading about flying in and out of Vancouver on these boards. I was still surprised about not being allowed to check in until 3 hrs before scheduled departure. I thought it might be helpful for others to see this so they could plan and heed the advice others have posted. I fully accept and agree that most of the problems are due to so called "security" imposed by the US.

 

As I said, I love Vancouver, I just won't be flying there again anytime soon. I do appreciate all the advice you guys have provided about the city, transportation, restaurants and all things Vancouver. I also appreciate your loyalty to the city and the upcoming Olympic Games (good luck with them, by the way).

 

BTW, I am a security system designer and analyst in my day job and I have to travel a lot. I am always amazed at any airport at the things they do in the name of "security" and YVR is no different, thanks to US DHS and TSA.

 

So, take my OP any way you want but I was just giving people a heads up!

 

"Oh Canada

We stand on guard for thee.

God keep our land

Glorious and free."

 

Great thoughts and I love your national anthem (I went to school in Oswego, NY right across from Canada on Lake Ontario and we always played both US and Canadian anthem before our hockey games!

[orchid72]

I was still surprised about not being allowed to check in until 3 hrs before scheduled departure. I thought it might be helpful for others to see this so they could plan and heed the advice others have posted.

I wonder if this is the way it is gonna be from now on, and not just in for Canada-US? Something similar happened to me flying from LHR to LIS -- was not allowed to drop off bags until exactly 2 hrs before scheduled departure (had already checked in online). This was with BA, by the way. Same thing with ORY to BCN in last few months. Also, I have been noticing that check in desks for international flights baggage drop offs do not open until 4 hrs before departure. I am guessing this would be the case as well if you wanted to check in at the kiosk (sorry, haven't done an actual kiosk check in last few years at YVR - always have done online check in).

 

I fully accept and agree that most of the problems are due to so called "security" imposed by the US....I am always amazed at any airport at the things they do in the name of "security" and YVR is no different, thanks to US DHS and TSA.

LOL!! Could not agree with you more.

 

I also appreciate your loyalty to the city and the upcoming Olympic Games (good luck with them, by the way).

thanks, we're definitely gonna need it! :D

[scottbee]

To all you Vancourites out there--

 

I probably wasn't as clear as I might have been--my observations were about our experience at the YVR airport, with no specific blame to the airport involved. I spent a lot of time reading about flying in and out of Vancouver on these boards. I was still surprised about not being allowed to check in until 3 hrs before scheduled departure. I thought it might be helpful for others to see this so they could plan and heed the advice others have posted. I fully accept and agree that most of the problems are due to so called "security" imposed by the US.

 

Apology accepted.

 

I get defensive when Americans complain about the US Dept of Homeland Security, and imply that it's somehow Vancouver's fault. I also read a number of complaints about US pre-screening getting on board cruise ships too, again directed at Vancouver.

 

Given that you're obviously concerned about it, why not write the department yourself, you've have a lot more affect as a US resident that us Vancouverites would.

[Gardyloo]

My understanding of the 3-hour thing is that it's usually to help the airlines schedule their staff rotations. However there may be cases where it's also got to do with controlling the flow into/out of limited space. I've been in the US departures area post-security when there literally wasn't a place to sit down.

 

My complaint with YVR is that one really can't be certain ahead of time how long a US-to-international connection will require. All arriving foreign pax are sent into the enormous arrivals hall, where the transit kiosk is relatively hidden on one end of the passport barricade. If you arrive with just one or two planes present, generally no problem, things go smoothly. However YVR gets spates of long-haul arrivals and I've found myself in queues with maybe 1000 non-English/French speaking folk, many of whom are crying children after 9- or 10-hour flights, and for whom the wording over the transit kiosk is gibberish, hence they queue up there as well as all the other lines. The immigration officers don't want to send people back to the end of the line, so they relent and process them through just like the next kiosk. This of course prompts more people to break out of their lines and go to the transit one, the net result of which is that true transit pax (like... me) get really delayed.

 

One time I was in such a queue and the transit kiosk officer decided (I guess) that the best solution was to close up and go on a break, leaving those of us already in line with nowhere to go except to the back of the next line. I nearly missed my connecting flight.

 

These things happen, and I fly enough to know it's not intentional (except at a few foreign airports where I think, it is) but it's a huge PITA when it happens at YVR.

[NoWhiners]

scottbee

 

That's pretty funny!! you think they listen to a mere US citizen?!! LOL!!! Maybe if a politician complained, we'd stand a chance.

 

My name is on the million person long list, so travel is extra hard. I tried going thru the "redress" process and nothing changed.

 

we are all stuck with this mess until all the millions of people traveling thru airports within the US or trying to enter finally band together and say that they are guilty of nothing other than trying to fly somewhere.

[emdia43]

Most US airlines will not let you check in until 3 or 4 hrs prior to your flight.

[Langley Cruisers]

Most US airlines will not let you check in until 3 or 4 hrs prior to your flight.

 

Yes, I've experienced this first-hand. In Toronto, we could not check in any earlier than 4 hours prior to flying into Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I'm not sure why people would think they could do it earlier. :confused: If anyone ever has, I think it must have been the exception, not the rule.

[emdia43]

I guess I don't understand what the US TSA is doing in Canada to begin with!

I didn't realize they were there.... where else are they stationed? :confused:

[zephyr17]

US Customs and Immigration are in most of the major ones. There is so much traffic that US border formalities are done in Canada, and then the flights are treated as domestic when they arrive in the US. The US and Canadian governments reached an agreement that they could this a long time ago -- I remember US Customs being in Vancouver in the 70s.

 

They do the same in the Bahamas. There may be other places where US Customs and Immigration are done at the departure point for US bound flights, too, but I don't know about them.

 

ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) is part of Department of Homeland Security now. Customs used be part of Treasury and Immigration used to be part of Justice.

[scottbee]

I guess I don't understand what the US TSA is doing in Canada to begin with!

I didn't realize they were there.... where else are they stationed? :confused:

 

It's not the TSA (security) people, it's the department of homeland security.

 

Unlike say flying from Mexico to the USA where you clear USA customs/immigration on landing; coming form Vancouver (and other major Canadian cities; Toronto, Montreal, Halifax, Winnipeg, Calgary & Edmonton) you pre-clear USA customs/immegration before you leave, and you're in a separate "USA departures Only" section of the airport (about 1/3 of all departures from YVR). This means when you land, you don't need to clear US C&I, you can just walk off the plane as if you were a domestic arrival. There are a few other places where this pre-screen happens, the Bahamas and Dublin Ireland jump to mind.

 

So in Vancouver, you

a) Check In

b) Proceed to US DHS for Customs/Immegration (w/ your luggage)

c) drop your checked luggage

d) airside security (Cdn equiv of the TSA)

 

The bad is that the lineups for (b) at busy airports like Vancouver can be long, and that the airport, Vancouver and Canada get blamed for the US Dept of Homeland Security, it's a lose-lose situation.

 

a) is quick, as there are checkin machines everywhere, and they even print your luggage tags

b) You're at the mercy of the USA DHS

c) takes no time, you just drop your luggage on a belt

d) is like any other airport security line

[zephyr17]

Scott, so the TSA isn't there in Canada, it is just the Immigration and Customs folks.

 

My own post originally started out saying that, but since I haven't flown out of Canada since 2001, I realized I didn't know for sure the TSA wasn't up there too, along with ICE, which I knew was there. So I edited it out. It didn't make sense to me that TSA would be providing airside security in Canada, but I didn't know for sure for pre-cleared US-bound flights.

 

Both TSA and ICE are part of Homeland Security, but the only encounters a lot of people have with Homeland Security is TSA. So when someone says Homeland Security, it is all "TSA" to them.

[NoWhiners]

when we went thru, we saw a sign that said security was contracted to TSA between customs and security check point, so it sounded like a local company did this for TSA. Maybe according to their standards? And, as scottbee noted, it is just like any other US airport. Checkin may not be as fast as hoped. Our group of 8 traveled on 2 different airlines and took about an hour on both lines to check in. Probably a function of time of day and number of cruisers going home, as posted previously. There were certainly long lines on all airlines on Saturday 6/27 at about 11 am!! Air Canada lines snaked half-way across the terminal--they must have great deals into the US? United lines were pretty long too.

 

Also saw those nylon lane dividers that seemed ti imply some sort of US/Canadian partnership or equivalent (two agency initials were on them).

 

It is true that TSA and Customs are now both part of new DHS, so the names are somewhat interchangeable.

[Putterdude]

Not all airlines pax are precleared by DHS at YVR and one that leaps to mind is Philippine Airlines on their leg between YVR and LAS....and then you have lines in LAS that make YVR's look pale in comparison.

[scottbee]

when we went thru, we saw a sign that said security was contracted to TSA between customs and security check point, so it sounded like a local company did this for TSA. Maybe according to their standards? And, as scottbee noted, it is just like any other US airport. Checkin may not be as fast as hoped. Our group of 8 traveled on 2 different airlines and took about an hour on both lines to check in. Probably a function of time of day and number of cruisers going home, as posted previously. There were certainly long lines on all airlines on Saturday 6/27 at about 11 am!! Air Canada lines snaked half-way across the terminal--they must have great deals into the US? United lines were pretty long too.

 

Also saw those nylon lane dividers that seemed ti imply some sort of US/Canadian partnership or equivalent (two agency initials were on them).

 

It is true that TSA and Customs are now both part of new DHS, so the names are somewhat interchangeable.

 

Airport security in Canada and Vancouver airport is handled by CATSA, it is not the US DHS TSA.

[scottbee]

Not all airlines pax are precleared by DHS at YVR and one that leaps to mind is Philippine Airlines on their leg between YVR and LAS....and then you have lines in LAS that make YVR's look pale in comparison

 

I believe that PR's MNL-YVR-LAS, and CX's HKG-YVR-JFK are the only two US bound flights that don't use the USA pre-clearance area. This is because the airlines don't want to have to completely unload the entrie aircraft, clear US customs in YVR, reload the aircraft to proceed, it's just a stop to drop some people and pick up others. All other US bound flights originating in YVR depart from the US pre-clearance area (gates 70-90 approx).

 

BTW, Am I the only Canadian that is offended by the post US Customs inspection, sign that proclaims "Welcome to the United States" at YVR. You're not in the USA, you're in a pre-clearance hold, you still pay Canadian sales taxes, everything is still in both official Canadian languages etc etc. As it's just a pre-clear the USA still has the option of forcing a re-clearance on you when you land at your final destination, which is why the airport you head to still needs to be a AOE/airport of entry (and hence SNA flights still can't happen).

[Putterdude]

BTW, Am I the only Canadian that is offended by the post US Customs inspection, sign that proclaims "Welcome to the United States" at YVR. You're not in the USA, you're in a pre-clearance hold, you still pay Canadian sales taxes, everything is still in both official Canadian languages etc etc.

 

No you are not, I'm with you on that one.