Is Carnival Taking Over the Cruise Industry?

[bunny1954]

http://www.tripso.com/today/is-carnival-about-to-take-over-the-cruise-industry/

[a3593]

I hope so! :D

[a3593]

I take BACK my last post. (Just being sarcastic before even reading the link.) I REALLY hope that doesn't happen!! It would suck for us.

[Frank12]

I hope not. A Monopoly is never good for the consumer.

[*Mach*]

I can see a few pluses and a TON of minuses...

First.. the quality of the food and entertainment on RCL ships would rise markedly, at least according to the honest reviews I've read here comparing CCL to RCL.

The down side... if the idea was to expand the Carnival style experience to RCL ships it would probably cost BILLIONS of dollars.

I don't believe that Carnival is interested in RCCL. They have the most powerful brand in the cruise industry and acquiring RCL adds little. Consider the most recent acquistion... IberoCruise... Carnival seems more interested in niche lines than more mass market lines...

:)

[MrPete]

While I think taking over the company itself is a bad thing, getting some of those classy ships would be a GOOD thing, except the next two!

 

How hard would it be to take off that Crown and stick on a funnel.

 

Didn't they do that once with an NCL ship?

 

[Cruzaholic41]

There are no plusses to Carnival Corp acquiring RCCL. That would be an unfair monopoly on the industry and we, the consumers, would suffer.

 

Carnival Corp already ownes too many cruise lines as it is. Difference is what makes cruising different lines so much fun.

[Nunu]

Difference is what makes cruising different lines so much fun.

 

You'd never know it from being on here!

[rigldbrg]

What's the credibility of the publication running this story? I'm not bashing, just wondering if this is a credible story.

 

After saying GM would never go bankrupt, I've learned to never say never. However, it would seem such a consolidation would be very unlikely. There is so much similarity between the brands that it's hard to see the upside. I don't know the financials, but I would bet that RCCL is pretty heavily leveraged with the mega liners that they've sailed recently. In addition, I don't think that the consumer has much to worry about. A monopoly is only a bad thing when there can be scarcity of a resource. Scarcity to is difficult to achieve with the current level of occupancy at sea. In order for a cruise line to make money they need people on those ships.

[douglinc@msn.com]

I hope it's not true, we need the competition.

 

Doug

[G'ma]

Interesting rumor...it seems to be spreading.

 

Frankly, I don't think it would be permitted due to anti-trust laws but we all know money talks.

 

Wouldn't bother me. Carnival has done a bang up job for 30 years. Can't see how it would change.

 

As for the dire threats of higher prices and lower quality....I'd take that with a grain of salt. No matter what, they still have to fill cruise ships with souls. And, those souls are pretty savvy consumers.

 

If the product isn't good; if it isn't priced right, "souls" will stay home.

 

It's supply and demand....with "demand" being dominant. If there is no demand for cabins on a cruise ship, that ship will sail with empty cabins.

[davy jones]

I like Carnival, but hope not. Competition is good. It drives innovation and keeps the costs down for all of us.

[Cruzaholic41]

I like Carnival, but hope not. Competition is good. It drives innovation and keeps the costs down for all of us.

 

Exactly. RCCL ownes 5 cruise lines, and 50% of a 6th cruise line. 2 of those lines are huge (RCI and X) and each is great in their own way. 2 others (Azamara and Pullmantur) are great in the European arena. I can't speak for CDF and Tui because I know nothing about them.

 

The last thing we, as cruisers, want is for a corp that already ownes numerous cruise lines to take on this acquisition. In the end, it would be a disaster.

[DocF]

You know, all the arguments against this happening that have been posted in this thread are the same ones that were used by RCCL to oppose CCI taking over Princess/P&O. The difference is these arguments were made to anti-trust authorities in the US and the EU. Notice who owns Princess and P&O Cruises. Fact is, Carnival is a monopoly right now, but they behave as if they were in a breakneck battle for every passenger.

 

What will keep this from happening is the fact that RCCL and CCI managements absolutely, insanely, totally loathe each other. If anything happens in this regard, I suspect that the extremely high leverage of RCCL may force a liquidation of the company. At which point, Carnival may do some cherry picking of the assets.

 

Doc

[nbsjcruiser]

http://www.tripso.com/today/is-carnival-about-to-take-over-the-cruise-industry/

 

Probably nothing more than baloney. Anti-trust laws would prohibit it I bet. It would also be a very bad thing for every cruiser. Right now Carnival offers early saver rate as a competitive tool to get cruisers. Why would they worry about that in the future? Prices would be unnecessarily high and unreasonably similar. Reducing choice is NEVER a good thing for any consumer in any market. It is good for the corporation and its shareholders and stops right there.

[Cruzaholic41]

You know, all the arguments against this happening that have been posted in this thread are the same ones that were used by RCCL to oppose CCI taking over Princess/P&O. The difference is these arguments were made to anti-trust authorities in the US and the EU. Notice who owns Princess and P&O Cruises. Fact is, Carnival is a monopoly right now, but they behave as if they were in a breakneck battle for every passenger.

 

Yes, but currently, Carnival Corp attracts about 50% of the cruising industry among all their individual lines. The acquisition of RCCL, or even any one of their 2 major lines, would severely tip the industry.

[firefly333]

Everyone I know that cruised Princess before Carnival took it over and after says it suffered.

 

Only out and out cheerleaders think that it would be a improvement to RCL cruises to have Carnival take them over. Service would sure suffer. Food is different on RCL, some food is better, some not, but wouldnt want exactly the same food on both.

[renalrn]

What's the credibility of the publication running this story? I'm not bashing, just wondering if this is a credible story.

 

After saying GM would never go bankrupt, I've learned to never say never. However, it would seem such a consolidation would be very unlikely. There is so much similarity between the brands that it's hard to see the upside. I don't know the financials, but I would bet that RCCL is pretty heavily leveraged with the mega liners that they've sailed recently. In addition, I don't think that the consumer has much to worry about. A monopoly is only a bad thing when there can be scarcity of a resource. Scarcity to is difficult to achieve with the current level of occupancy at sea. In order for a cruise line to make money they need people on those ships.

\

When you ask about credibility you remind me of me, always need the facts.

I think that the key word to the story is when the author wrote "rumor".

It's also rumored that I'm going to lose 15 pounds by my next cruise, but in all probability .....aint gonna happen.

[renalrn]

When we are talking about antitrust laws, isn't it a moot point?

I'm not an attorney but I thought that those were just a federal thing, so if a company runs its business from a foreign port do they apply?

Any body know anything about the law here? (all that I know is that if I speed coming home from work I will get ticketed.)

[noblepa]

When we are talking about antitrust laws, isn't it a moot point?

I'm not an attorney but I thought that those were just a federal thing, so if a company runs its business from a foreign port do they apply?

Any body know anything about the law here? (all that I know is that if I speed coming home from work I will get ticketed.)

 

I'm not an attorney, either.

 

While none of their ships are flagged in the US and many cruises leave/return from foreign ports, both Carnival and Royal Caribbean are US corporations, so they are, indeed, subject to US antitrust laws.

 

I suppose that CCL could re-incorporate in a different country, but I doubt that they would do that.

 

However, in antitrust enforcement, the big question is whether the Justice Department will pursue a case. They seem to have been very disinterested in antitrust cases, in recent years.

 

Paul

[Vanessa L]

While I think taking over the company itself is a bad thing, getting some of those classy ships would be a GOOD thing, except the next two!

 

How hard would it be to take off that Crown and stick on a funnel.

 

Didn't they do that once with an NCL ship?

 

 

That picture is hysterical, Pete!! I do not think Carnival Corp would want RCCL. They are about to be way more in debt than Carnival Corp with these 2 new Gigantor ships. I can't imagine any company in their right mind taking that on knowingly :eek:

[rickcop44]

"While none of their ships are flagged in the US and many cruises leave/return from foreign ports, both Carnival and Royal Caribbean are US corporations, so they are, indeed, subject to US antitrust laws."

 

Actually, Carnival Corporation is incorporated in Panama and Royal Caribbean International is a Liberian corporation. That said, both maintain their corporate headquarters in Miami. Despite their foreign identities, both would be subject to United States anti-trust statutes. The anti-trust laws in this country are wide and varied. Some courts have looked at the percentage of the market a company has in determining an illegal monopoly (there is such a thing as a legal monopoly). Other court decisions have said that as long as a company remains competitive and does not attempt to bump out what competition there is, there is no monopoly. The Justice Department could conceivably approve a Carnival takeover of RCI, but I'm sure it would keep a close eye on their pricing tactics, attempts to nudge out what remaining competition there is, etc.

 

The few RC cruises I've been on have been wonderful. What I don't like about RC is their pricing. A suite on a Carnival ship costs me $1100 per person. That same suite on a Royal Caribbean ship costs about $1800 per person. One thing that could come about as a result of Carnival acquiring Royal Caribbean would be lower prices on Royal Caribbean. But again, any drastic pricing changes, especially lowering prices to move out the competition, would be closely looked at by Justice. Just my opinions.

[Jumbiecruiser]

I can see a few pluses and a TON of minuses...

 

First.. the quality of the food and entertainment on RCL ships would rise markedly, at least according to the honest reviews I've read here comparing CCL to RCL.

 

I have also read that you Carnies are a bunch of red necks that have the manners of a bunch of back woods bubbas. Is that true? Must be as I read it here.

 

The down side... if the idea was to expand the Carnival style experience to RCL ships it would probably cost BILLIONS of dollars.

 

How would it cost billions to add a bunch of drunks running around in t-shirts and shorts to a ship?

I don't believe that Carnival is interested in RCCL. They have the most powerful brand in the cruise industry and acquiring RCL adds little. Consider the most recent acquistion... IberoCruise... Carnival seems more interested in niche lines than more mass market lines...

 

:)

 

LMAO at this expert cruiser. Did John Heald tell you to say that?

[MrPete]

LMAO at this expert cruiser. Did John Heald tell you to say that?

 

 

Honestly, you wasted some good clicks to come ALL THE WAY OVER HERE to say that.

 

In a non white font, no less. :eek:

 

You really should be saving your energy to pay for those higher fares.

[*Mach*]

LMAO at this expert cruiser. Did John Heald tell you to say that?

 

 

Thank you for your most intelligent comments. You've done a most excellent job of carrying on the Royal Champions tradition.

:)