CCL leaves family over medical issue

[dan40]

The article states that she had the procedure a few weeks before the cruise. If it was not an planned procedure, she wouldn't have anticipated needing insurance. By that time, it was probably too late to purchase medical insurance anyway. So, that doesn't sound like an option.

 

 

What does, "she wouldn't have anticipated needing insurance." mean?

Insurance is bought FOR the unknown, not the "anticipated!"

[nrdsb4]

This is probably not reported correctly either... Usually the catheter is placed in the femoral vein, internal jugular vein, or subclavian vein... NOT arteries.

 

If it was an artery then there would be a lot of pressure coming from them as they are the vessels that pump from the heart. Veins return blood to the heart and work with back pressure and valves. Dont get me wrong, they can bleed a lot too. I have a feeling we dont even know a quarter of this story.

 

 

In heart caths and ablations, the catheter is inserted into the femoral artery. I know this as I have spent many years taking the sheath out and applying pressure through various means afterwards to control the bleeding.

 

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-catheter-ablation.htm

[emdia43]

I don't think it's wise to second guess the Ship's Physician. We weren't there and do not know what his examination showed or what he thought the potential for serious complications were. IF this procedure was done several weeks before it should have been well healed. I am sure he was probably ahead of the game wondering what else was happening to cause it to bleed at this date..... something did not add up and with his limited diagnostic tools on board he decided to err on the side of caution..

[DragonMouse]

I don't know if insurance would have helped much in this situation but...she could have and SHOULD have postponed her vacation till she was healed.

 

BUT I think we might be missing a little of what's going on. If it were just a little bleeding I figure the clinic should have taken care of it easily and had her back on the ship in no time. To keep her for DAYS it seems like there had to be more going on.

 

And ICE??? to stop bleeding??? Pressure yes...and rebandage it...yes...but "ice"??? That's for bruising or swelling...

 

I thought you could "postpone" a trip for a "change" charge. I guess everybody should have insurance but unless your at some point to where you there's a good probability of something going wrong I guess there's plenty of us (me included) that must admit to "chancing" it. Something could happen to anyone anytime...but...

 

IF I was in no real "danger" IF it was as "minor" as they claim...I probably would have just had my "family" continue the cruise then ME alone fly out when I got dismissed. I guess if it were MAJOR of course I supposed I might need help but otherwise...I wouldn't want to pay for ALL of us to fly back so I'd just have the family continue on.

 

Was Carnival wrong for leaving. "I don't know". If the rest of the family decided to leave because the lady couldn't reboard or if Carnival FORCED the REST of them off is two different situations. She sounds like she was old enough to take care of herself. It also sounds like it's possible HER doctor might be in line for a little "malpractice"...or else somebody's not telling the whole truth.

[Sophiesmom2]

I would have requested a letter from by MD/Cardiologist BEFORE I sailed medically clearing me. My thinking is that the TINY incision did not completely heal because she is on blood thinners and this concerned them enough to have it looked at by the Carnival MD. He should have reassured them, put a bandaid on the incision, told the patient to apply ice for 2 hrs and elevate the leg. That would have probably taken care of it, especially if her vitals were fine/stable. Geezzzzz....BOTH MDs way over-reacted!!! :(

[gtalum]

I can sympahtize with both sides here, but I think CCL had no choice but to leave her once a doctor claimed she wasn't fit to sail. Cna you imagine the headline if she had been allowed to reboard and bled out whil ebeing treated by the ship's doctor?

 

"Carnival Allows Woman to Sail After She is Ordered Not to Sail by Doctor - She Bled to Death"

 

The best lesson to learn here is PURCHASE TRAVEL INSURANCE. It's so cheap, I truly don't see why people go without it.

[nrdsb4]

I don't know if insurance would have helped much in this situation but...she could have and SHOULD have postponed her vacation till she was healed.

 

 

Under normal circumstances, a cardiac ablation performed weeks before departure should not have mandated a postponement of the trip. Obviously, we don't know all of the individual circumstances here. But a clearance from her doctor would have been the expected outcome of a non complicated cardiac ablation.

[gtalum]

I don't know if insurance would have helped much in this situation...

 

Ordered off the ship for medical reasons? It's one of the very reasons the insurance exists...

[JD75]

1. I'm not sure how the ship's doctor's decision was arbitrary and irrational.

 

2. I'd like to know your reasoning on the your statement about Carnival's actions differing, because frankly the logic behind that statement eludes me.

 

Assuming the article is completely accurate I was referring to the ship doctor overruling the surgeon.

 

Regarding Carnival's decision differing, its not out of the realm of possibility the decision to send her packing could've been influenced by Carnival knowing their insurance co was off the hook..... Unless one's unwilling to concede Carnival could ever be in the wrong.

 

Of course everything I've said is strictly speculation.

[emdia43]

I would have requested a letter from by MD/Cardiologist BEFORE I sailed medically clearing me. My thinking is that the TINY incision did not completely heal because she is on blood thinners and this concerned them enough to have it looked at by the Carnival MD. He should have reassured them, put a bandaid on the incision, told the patient to apply ice for 2 hrs and elevate the leg. That would have probably taken care of it, especially if her vitals were fine/stable. Geezzzzz....BOTH MDs way over-reacted!!! :(

 

Disagree. The ship's MD could not look into the future. If he had done what you suggested and it didn't help, then he is now out at sea somewhere with a patient with a developing hematoma, on blood thinners, and no way to check a Pro Time.... after he referred to hospital for assessment it was out of his hands.

Being on anticoagulants does not create bleeding, it just makes it difficult to manage..

[CanWeGoYet?]

The fact the cardiologist said she was fine to travel, and to put ice over the puncture site sounds like it was bleeding from the incision - basically the skin bleeding. No medical professional is going to advise ice for arterial bleeding. There is a big difference between the small amount of blood or spotting you get from the superficial incision, and an arterial bleed.

 

But since the passengers presented to the ship's doctor with this issue, I can see why he would err on the side of caution and not want to fool with taking on this gamble. If the bleed looked miminal at first but then progressed, it could not be handled on board. Did carnival even know they were boarding a passenger who had an ablation done recently?

 

I feel bad for the people who lost their vacation, but can't imagine taking any cruise without insurance. And getting trip insurance to cover pre-existing conditions is not all that hard. Insuremytrip.com or squaremouth both offer insurance plans with this option.

[Donray]

I have been on two cruises (neither Carnival) where people were not allowed back on the ship because of medical conditions.

The cruise line is making sure they don't get sued and making sure that the people are left in a port with a hospital that can take care of them.

[salty dingo]

Best to not cruise if you have recently had major surgery, like the OP's wife.

[Savoia]

I disagree. A medical professional would not clear her to re-join the ship. If this was enough of an issue for them to contact their physician at home and not just stick a bandage on it, and to be recommended to another physician in a foreign port for further care, then I think Carnival was within their rights to deny boarding. If we, as passengers (and not necessarily you in particular) expect us to be cleared to board based on a doctor's recommendation to the cruiseline, then we also have to expect to be denied boarding by the same method.

 

That said, I would be suing the living hell out of that doctor for shady and unethical practices.

 

Another poster raised an interesting point..who was it on the ship and what qualifications did the land based facility have? (since Carnival directed them to the land based facility). Insurance should have been purchased but Carnival wiping themselves of any responsibility in how all of this played out is in very bad taste. Knowing Carnival and their sleazy underhanded ways of doing business I suspect they were too concerned about a legal issue that could erupt and decided this passenger needs to leave. I hope this family pursues legal action against Carnival and I hope they make it hurt. Carnival needs to be reined in...they are a truely vile company.

[renalrn]

In heart caths and ablations, the catheter is inserted into the femoral artery. I know this as I have spent many years taking the sheath out and applying pressure through various means afterwards to control the bleeding.

 

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-catheter-ablation.htm

 

You are correct.

I wonder if this woman was on a blood thinner as well. If she had the ablation for a-fib or something she may have been.

[bleuiz]

I have been on two cruises (neither Carnival) where people were not allowed back on the ship because of medical conditions.

 

The cruise line is making sure they don't get sued and making sure that the people are left in a port with a hospital that can take care of them.

 

 

Not quite on this topic....but if you are denied entry on the ship...do they allow you to pack your things? Take your medication? Remove the valuables from your safe?

[pe4all]

Doctors who diagnose over the phone give me the willies. They cannot see what is going on. Diagnosing an icepack for what seemed to be minor bleeding? The bleeding probably was just leakage from the incision, but how can another Dr. take that kind of responsibility? Could have been an infection setting in. Better safe than sorry - and I am sure they are now sorry they didn't have cruise insurance.

[klmorg]

Not quite on this topic....but if you are denied entry on the ship...do they allow you to pack your things? Take your medication? Remove the valuables from your safe?

 

Yes, Carnival will help take care of you. When we had to debark in Grand Cayman due to medical emergency (DH heart attack), our family was able to pack ourselves, but Carnival will help with every detail if you are unable to (they offered to pack us up, get our bags for us, etc.) About 10 of the staff even tendered from the ship to GC with us, taking care of our bags & us until the port authority took over.

 

And folks, folks, folks who still want to think Carnival is at fault here... as has been posted here several times, it is very clear in the passenger contract & from the infirmary staff themseleves that they are NOT a full blown medical facility equipped to treat such medical emergencies. They will treat you as best they can (as they did my DH) and get you to the nearest medical facility, whether it's an upcoming port, or an air evacuation. Thus, a pretty clear & convincing reason for travel insurncae, but that poor horse has been beaten to death here already. :)

[fireofficer5]

Cold, ice, constricts the blood vessels. Thus helps control bleeding.

[sharecruises]

Another poster raised an interesting point..who was it on the ship and what qualifications did the land based facility have? (since Carnival directed them to the land based facility). Insurance should have been purchased but Carnival wiping themselves of any responsibility in how all of this played out is in very bad taste. Knowing Carnival and their sleazy underhanded ways of doing business I suspect they were too concerned about a legal issue that could erupt and decided this passenger needs to leave. I hope this family pursues legal action against Carnival and I hope they make it hurt. Carnival needs to be reined in...they are a truely vile company.

 

 

Oh please that is beyond ridiculous..."vile"??>>

 

get real....Carnival had no choice but to not let her back on board....if she bled to death on the ship then YOU would really have something to crow about

 

you can't have your cake (not even melting chocolate cake) and eat it too

 

some people never learn that....I hope Carnival doesn't budge or give them squat....ultimately someone has to pay for it , why should the rest of us have higher fares due to people who act foolishly??

[dan40]

Another poster raised an interesting point..who was it on the ship and what qualifications did the land based facility have? (since Carnival directed them to the land based facility). Insurance should have been purchased but Carnival wiping themselves of any responsibility in how all of this played out is in very bad taste. Knowing Carnival and their sleazy underhanded ways of doing business I suspect they were too concerned about a legal issue that could erupt and decided this passenger needs to leave. I hope this family pursues legal action against Carnival and I hope they make it hurt. Carnival needs to be reined in...they are a truely vile company.

 

You would benefit from even a little basic research about the capabilities of a ships infirmary. Then you could make intelligent comments on the subject. The infirmary only has to be a first aid station, that is all. All are massively over equipped for that requirement.

But they ARE NOT hospital ER's. Another shock would be that there is no requirement that a ship have a Doc or infirmary for passengers. They are required to be there for CREW only.

[crischickie]

You should also consider the source of the news story - a local television station. This was not the AP or some publication where an editor checks facts. It was just one reporter's opinion. And a lopsided one at that!

 

Because we all know we can trust the media to report all the facts and not sensationalize, right?

 

In the past I've never seen a post that said "I went to the ships doctor and everything was great service and wonderful outcome". (except for getting some motion sickness pills for free). We'll hear about great food, MDR, etc. But I don't think I've ever seen anyone praise the ship's doctor.

 

The Dr's are there to take care of the crew. I am sure the cruise lines want quacks who may injure or kill crew members and clients indiscriminately.

 

 

Do you think that this exclusion would not have been applied if the insurance company could find a way out of the claim? If this was a pre-existing condition at the time the insurance was purchased then there would be $0 paid to the family.

 

Some policies cover pre-existing conditions if purchased when the travel is booked.

 

Another poster raised an interesting point..who was it on the ship and what qualifications did the land based facility have? (since Carnival directed them to the land based facility). Insurance should have been purchased but Carnival wiping themselves of any responsibility in how all of this played out is in very bad taste. Knowing Carnival and their sleazy underhanded ways of doing business I suspect they were too concerned about a legal issue that could erupt and decided this passenger needs to leave. I hope this family pursues legal action against Carnival and I hope they make it hurt. Carnival needs to be reined in...they are a truely vile company.

Of course Carnival doesn't have to consider the cost if they have to re-route the ship so they can be somewhere to medivac the woman if necessary. And let's not forget the other 2499 (or whatever) passengers who will get upset because they missed some port and want some financial consideration. Carnival did what they should have done.

 

I find it interesting that people are criticizing the doctors and Carnival and we are able to get all this excellent medical advice on CC.

[neekaemt]

In heart caths and ablations, the catheter is inserted into the femoral artery. I know this as I have spent many years taking the sheath out and applying pressure through various means afterwards to control the bleeding.

 

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-catheter-ablation.htm

 

 

i stand corrected. i knew caths went through the femoral artery. but everything i have read on ablations said veins not arteries

[nrdsb4]

Best to not cruise if you have recently had major surgery, like the OP's wife.

 

 

Cardiac ablation is not considered major surgery. Especially as it occurred several weeks before the cruise. I'm not at all surprised that her doctor cleared her to cruise.

 

The bleeding was most likely just incisional bleeding and nothing major, but I could certainly see how a ship doctor might want to take a "better safe than sorry" position.

[ehfl]

Obviously, they should have purchased insurance.

 

If Carnival had gone against doctor's advice, and something had happened, they (Carnival) could be in a lot worse trouble.

 

It seems just another case, where someone refuses to buy insurance, gets into a situation where they need it, then whines to the press about how "badly they were treated".