Nunagoras

Regent problem right now is not the lack of a solid product... It's either the lack of a solid owner, ready to invest on them for the next gen transition. How many ships are they adding to the cart for the next 4 years? 2, if my memory sticks, isn't it?... And both before the pandemic contracted with before the pandemic way of doing things in mind. And now Norwegian has the corresponding debt to redeem and no easy way to add more debt to make the transition...

💯!... It seems we speak the same Market Analyst language, dear @Whipsnade!... This is sadly the current state of the art on the whole Industry that so many here in CC still don't see, or don't want to admit they've already seen. In summary: Carnival - Bust. Ready to be "quartered" in smaller parts to be sold segment by segment. Norwegian - Bust. Owned by "hedge funds" that, most of them will be more than happy to be out of that disgrace before a new big economical crisis arises. Ready to be "quartered" in smaller parts to be sold segment by segment. Royal Caribbean - At the bare minimum of survival, but things are not great there. They have a huge debt scheme to be redeemed mostly out of their X Edge class. If their current booking system is set to be as full as they claim for the next year and a half, maybe they'll survive like we know them right now. But, if the war in Ukraine persists past 2024 and inflation doesn't go down, they'll likely to have difficulties in filling those ships from mid 2025 onward on their current rates and they may not survive well a discount season. Their prospects are better than Carnival or Norwegian, but that is it for now. If market conditions don't change for the better they'll be as bust as the others in a not so distant time than some may to think about. MSC - Great! Back before the pandemic their cruise division only valued for some 3% of their entire group business volume. In no way, will that segment represent more than 1% of it by 2025 given the ongoing cargo fares over the exceptional increase that no one would eve to dream about some 4 years ago. The cruise segment seems like such an adult toy for some Aponte family relatives members to play during their free time!... They'll entirely to command the whole market for the next 2 decades as they please with minimal competition, at least in the west!... There is simply nobody with their budget or expertise to make whatever else in the market. It's up to them to decide how they will "kill" the competition. Apparently they'll just let them to die by natural death. Excuse me the harsh words, but those are the ones we used to analyse businesses on the market analysis department!... Possible entrants of meaningful notice? China and Saudi Arabia. China may very well to purchase Carnival or part of it, at least, like it has already been the case over the Adora cruises partnership. China would to become a huge global competitor if fruity, but far form being minimally harmful at any meaning for now by and large. Either way something on where I'll be very attentive over its developments on the next years to come. Saudi Arabia purchased one of the defunct Genting Capital ~150k GT ships still in shipyard. It seems a toy for their royal family to play with, but who knows if they'll to come in with the biggies?... I don't know how Viking is doing these days. If they wish for it, they can very well to launch an upgraded Viking product for the modern luxe segment, but they may be quite limited financially. Disney doesn't really count. Yeah; they have the mega ship from Genting Capital, but I'd to call it a night on them being the next big thing. Disney's main businesses aren't going that great from what I can observe. Time will tell. Virgin was hit wherever else during the Covid time. I've no doubts on whether they would have been the next big thing in the industry was no Covid on the mix!... But that is life. Mr. Branson was not lucky here. As simple as that. His cruise venture started up at the ugliest time one would imagine it to have been. Nobody can to remedy that. Perhaps MSC will end up purchasing the ships and transforming them on whatever else they please.

Sadly I won't be aboard, surely I would like to meet you just to congrats you and your husband for your lovely age, and still cruising!... Despite the naysayers, times are changing. And they won't return home to the last century's 80's. Wonderful to know you're here to stay as things are. Enjoy a wonderful cruise on this new ship. Surely there will still be "first user bugs", but that is also the salt of life!... I'll be more than happy to listen from you live from the ship. Have a wonderful day!...

Absolutely! And this is, among many other things, why all cruise lines must to follow the generation change. The 🧡 or te ship for me might not be the same 🧡 of the ship for you, but one can capture what the average 🧡 of the ship maybe for a whole generation. I seriously doubt Azamara as being relevant for next gen unless they can to replace their current ageing fleet. Same for Crystal. @Mr Luxury: Silversea is behind the RCI's umbrella right now. If they can make things going, managing fleet accordingly, yes, they can lead, but don't think EJ's positives will pass apart from them. If succeeded EJ will to become "normative" of the segment for very long years. Fixed that will be the software part, EJ will be as disruptive, if not even more for the luxe market segment, than what Virgin has been to the Premium one.

Let us to see things from another perspective. I know I'll be "crucified" again for a less than perfect comparison, but hey. Let's to see Cunard for an instance. Yes: Only the Queens Grill suites are true luxury, I know, but then... Those are as part of the same ship as Britannia staterooms. By watching current Cunard pricing, they're among the most competitive pricing among all the industry, sometime the "cheap" cruising's corner these days, where MSC used to be. For no reason?... Yes; for a reason!... People in the below 60 these days are far from flocking to the "good ole days" traditions of sort. They simply don't care. The ones currently on the 60+ contingent will be the ones on the 70+ contingent by 2030, and retirement age limits growing just everywhere else. You'll find plenty of 70+ individuals still with a job in a not so distant time from now on. The ones on their 50's now are set to be the most active crowd of all times till very late on their age. No place for 12+ consecutive holiday days for them on the next 20 years to come. An operation starting now like EJ is set to be on soft opening till well in 2028, if not more. This is why they're now set on only 6 ships, no more. If successful, and they have it all to be, they'll to be 12-16 ships by 2032. That's what it is expected to be the final outcome of this one. Now what will be out of Cunard? My best bet? Adapt or die. No 3rd way. Are there problems with current EJ? Yes. Will them need to go throughout the learning curve? Yes! But by the day the other lines would face the need to accommodate the generation change, EJ will be well established on the segment. Believe me!... And I'm not touching here the investment capabilities here. Crystal will likely to be out in 10 years if they can't build their newer ships accordingly. Oceania and Regent may very well follow suit if there is not a single new investor taking them inside to the next gen. Seabourn and Silversea seem a little bit safer... For now... The industry will dramatically to change. The expedition and yacht like segments are just another niche we aren't talking about here. This is for the top ocean going ships alike. The 900 guests segment will prevail. Either way; I believe the likes of regent are not that far away on 850 per ship.

All what you say is absolutely true. Add to that the fact that running those ships at sea would require some expertise that really only a few would have. All that joint together would give you an idea of how difficult it will be for someone to enter this market. The likes of Marriott, etc. may to enter, but only on the day one of the biggies would ask for an investor to recover them from their challenges. Nobody will just to invest on ships that can't be delivered before 2028 or even later right now, without the expertise to run them from the past. They'll to purchase the biggies... At a set good price! Off-topic? I know. Excuse me to be contributing to that, but at least it is cruise related.

Well. All those companies are in the luxury market, but as on everything else, even there, we have sub categories on the same main segment: Half-luxury: Azamara; Viking; Oceania. Full-luxury: Seabourn, Silverseas, Regent, Crystal. Post-modern luxury: EJ Hope to have explained a bit better my stance on that market.

Fixing the first user bugs. This is why I believe MSC group should have had those cruises on the first 6 operational months done at a hard discount (call it soft opening mode) and not the regular set prices.

Traditional "old guard" luxury market? No, they aren't. And they don't want to. Read @Kissing Seahorses post #30 to have the best documented product analysis of the line I have read to date from someone whom is or was onboard. That said; give them the next 2 or 3 years and they'll to have an as superb software to the wonderful hardware they already have. By the time E3 is set to sail there'll be wait list for any possible withdrawal only option to try to book those cruises. Filled to capacity they'll be!... Simply they have the proper eggs from where they'll to make omelettes... No other cruise line has similar eggs on the global market. Viking? To an extent, but they're a very regimented product, just for those few ones on the English speaking markets they admit in. Await a bit and you'll see...

Me too. I seriously doubt new Crystal to be part of the next gen as well. In their credit, they're now being top standard on the way they treat their employees. An example that should to be more than followed elsewhere. They have attracted some 80% of them. They're happy there. I follow a Brazilian whom works there as concierge and his videos are notorious on their pride to be part of that adventure... But one doesn't make omelets without eggs. No new ships, no next gen. As for the biggies, only MSC has now the deep funds to command the market... Oh, and China, of course!... Even RCL had to sell Azamara for a reason... The industry will change dramatically in the next years to come and Europe will suffer a bit over it because for now there is no real 2028-32 order book in perspective. My 2 cents? Here we go; forgive the off topic, but it is cruising related, so... 1) The mainstream market will hopefully revert to the ~150k GT size ships. Enjoy the A380's of the seas till there are. There won't be more. 2) The Premium market will set on the ~100k GT ship size. 3) The Luxury one will set on the below 70k ship size. 4) If Europe wants to save itself on the shipyard front they'll need to find investors interested on what RCL, CCL and NCL groups will to leave behind them. As an optimistic, I'm here for the best, but things are not really that shining these days... EJ will likely to command the new luxe market as they please, come the good software to join the superb hardware.

True! Come the good software, they'll to make it justice to the wonderful hardware.

Wow! Congrats to you on your 84, still happily cruising the high seas!... As for EJ, I wholly agree with you. If they're able to tweak their "software" to the hardware level, they'll be such a thing in the cruising industry. There is such a market for some younger, more active folks that simply just want something some steps above the norm, while tailored to their post-urban upper-affluent lifestyle. As you say; the day they capture the message and tweak the "software" their ships will be almost full with just long wait lists available in case of any possible withdrawal. Silversea I believe is renovating their fleet right now, part of the RCCL empire. Crystal is more complex. They promise 2 new ships till 2029. But there is no order book yet, nor designated shipyard. Possibly not an owner able enough to carry the thing too much longer... Time will tell, I'm not that confident to say the least. They'll live well with their current fully refurbished ships for the next 5-10 years. After that it is an obscurity, even though nice ships any way.

Well: Thanks all for your contributions!... Seems that totally informal is the new norm, especially welcomed by EJ! Seems that big commuter express buses are the new normal for luxe line shore ex. Oh, my! How times have changed in those 3 years I have been out of touch with a cruise port and I may have not noticed!...

Cheers to you! That's it on the times change for dress codes and so on!... Regarding Entertainment EJ's purpose is in paper my dream for an enjoyable 21st century cruise experience. Hope them to be at least able to effectively provide. As per the shore excursions department, I have another concern: I'm now in the middle of watching some YT videos of an old lady, sort of influencer, vlogger, or what else I've found whom is or was recently on the ship. As per those videos what is evident on me is that EJ is selling a supposedly premium service, at premium prices... Surely they have small group buses... But the real shore excursions are NOT your desirable luxury segment excursions. Fortunately the lady is honest enough on calling that not luxury, even if politely... They're providing on same mainstream 44-60 seat buses they use for mainstream MSC, instead of the small 12-20 seats mini vans with dark windows usually used for luxury line shore ex. I lived minutes from the Lisbon port till the pandemic. I know the target difference for the usual product delivery... Simply EJ is contracting mainstream and reselling as premium, except the minimum pax number to run a trip!... The tour bus they provided for a 15 individuals small group in Rotterdam was not better than our commuter 1-3 hour express buses we use here in Portugal along the country! That seems unacceptable at that shore ex price range. They have a long run to go till they're at par. They should have discounted those shore ex accordingly.

I believe that would make more sense on the general EJ questions thread. Either way, thanks for the link. At least the ships will be liquid hydrogen only for hotel operations in port, not full liquid hydrogen like suggested in some EJ relative social media outlets.

Well. Times are changing. Even on Executive class you can't have infinite luggage allowances anymore for your come and return flights... It's past time certain CC members would to understand that. Also, the cellphone industry has killed that special professional photo moments. Cruise lines are adapting to that... All of them, except Cunard. Now: Look at some Cunard pricing right now on their current offering... Something sometimes more or less on par with mainline MSC for baseline Britannia staterooms in certain sailings... For a good reason!... Either way: They adapt or fail. I know: Off topic, but that is reality! I'm surprised though that those Europeans, I presume the majority now onboard, were so out of context though, unless they're really some of those 3rd grade influencers or TA's... Back before the pandemic, on holiday, even on mainstream MSC, the MDR environment used to be far more sophisticated than what is being described here. Far more, to say the least with suit with no tie being the overall norm for men and the corresponding ladies outfit...

Sorry for your situation. Just my 2 cents: MSC remains great on me on the MAINSTREAM cruise market net price target point. They simply deliver what for EU 4* standards is what should to be delivered, believe me or not. But now this 5*+ venture is something above of abysmal JIMHO. They're simply not prepared for the segment yet, if ever they'll come close. Another strange news, perhaps proof of their inadequacy to the segment coming up from the EJ social media presence elsewhere: They state they'll have a fleet of 6 ships: 2 regular oil one; 2 LNG ones; and today they converted the last 2 options for Liquid Hydrogen ones!... I understand the Venice and Norway ecological limitations from now on, but Liquid Hydrogen, really?... A week cruise on said ships would cost round EUR 10,000 per guest on the cheapest accommodation if that conversion would fruit reality! Finland and Iceland going out of LH for the car supply industry for low demand. Portugal rescheduling their current resilience EU program out of low LH demand as well, and MSC going full LH on 2 ships. Forgive me!... 3 sub-fleets in a 6 ships fleet is very amateurish for a more than 100 years old maritime business out there!...

Legitimate concern, once to turn things a little worse, MSC's dedicated terminal is not completed yet and EJ is by and large at the mercy of any other available dock, even if a cargo one near be with cruise facilities access elsewhere. Mandatory inspections at first landing on US lands is obviously another thing that won't affect the ones in Miami.

Don't know. Something happened though...

Humm... At least your post summed to all the other added more clarity for the problem, little bit less crazy on EJ's part, but again: They should have predicted it in due time and acted accordingly, so crazy that is: By and large; it seems clear for me that the ports authority needs to do a full special safety inspection on the ship prior to the christening ceremony. On those ceremonies it is usual to have the main city's mayor, the State Governor, some Congress Representatives and Senators, maybe in extreme, some SCOTUS judges or say Vice-POTUS Kamala Harris. Those inspections would require an empty ship. It may be part of the protocol for those type of experiences... That doesn't excuse poor and late communication from EJ. It seems that things are slowly improving at the compensation hotel though. Have a wonderful day!

Surely. I was just trying to do some sort of "black humor" out of one more proof that the MSC group is not prepared for the true luxury market. One thing are those little bugs all companies do have while launching a new or renovated ship. But this is simply above the abysmal to say the least!...

MEJCA - Make Explora Journeys Crazy Again - If only they have ever left the crazy boat, really!...

Those are my 2 cents for the next years in the cruise market. Enjoy!...