Mary229

On 11/16/2023 at 8:01 AM, Ride-The-Waves said:

Just off a TA on RCI's Odyssey of the seas.  And LOST ten pounds over 16 days.  Terrible food and overpriced specialty restaurants.  Never again in RCI.

I lost 5 pounds in 7 days on AMAWaterways.  I am a salad lover and the salads were literally just dumped out of a bag, you could even taste the wash the factory adds to those concoctions.  Yuk. 

HAL does operate a shuttle between the two cities.  @Rozused it recently, perhaps she could comment. 

Not in recent years.  Occasionally there used to be shore excursions on sale - watch Viator as they sometimes do as much as 20% off with no payment required 

4 hours ago, canadarocks said:

One of the reasons the whole think took so long is my TA could not get the same discounted price that I got online. So I had to book it and now go through the hassle of transferring it to her. 

Tell your TA to be sure to sign in your Mariner number when booking.  If you have any special discounts such as casino those are attached to your Mariner number.  I instructed my TA to always use DH’s number as he is such a “big” gambler😉. 

2 hours ago, Haljo1935 said:

DH had it last week on NS - no marshmallow, yes stroop (wafer) enjoyed it.

We didn’t have stroop just a simple  cookie.  I do like this new emphasis on Dutch heritage food.   

3 hours ago, ak1004 said:

 

My understand is that their business model doesn't force you to cruise. Don't like their rules - don't cruise.

 

And I don't think it's unique to the cruise industry. We had a non refundable hotel reservation on Expedia for May 2020. Obviously we had to cancel when Covid started. They refused to provide a refund, only credit, valid till end of 2022. We requested an extension and were refused. It expired and they just kept our money.

 

Our friends had a booking for a land tour with Trafalgar for 2020. Again, no refund, only future credit, and when they finally took the tours in 2023, they had to pay the current price which was 40% higher than what they paid.

 

Many airlines refused to provide refunds when flights were cancelled during Covid. And of course when rebooking later, customers had to pay much higher prices.

 

So lets stop the whining and enjoy life. 99% of people in the world would be very happy to have those "problems" - that means that they can afford to travel.

Airlines do now give credits for flights missed and hotels do also. I have a hotel reservation with a cruise line at this moment and am able to cancel up to 5 days prior to arrival.  I have an international flight through a cruise line that for a small fee with the airline I can receive a voucher for future travel.  A lot has changed in the past few years and the travel I du has become more forgiving.  
 

All of this aside the true issue comes down to broken promises, these people were promised an FCC and a few lucky passengers received them but most of the FCCs were removed.  

One of the cruisers mentioned they were losing $30,000 on this cruise, I know for some they may not seem significant but for me that would sting. 

9 minutes ago, roninman said:

 

Could well be, but I haven't seen it in my dealings, nor in review of the legislation or the Visa Core Rules.  Their question is mainly whether the language of the Act is met.   I've dealt with major banks with consumer credit cards, and the "adjudication" of disputes is handled by a dedicated team of bank dispute analysts.  Never seen them hand it off to the bank's in house legal department or contracted lawyers- even assuming they staffed industry specific expertise- to review contract language.  Not saying it doesn't happen, and I have no experience with commercial procurement card accounts, but since the expense would be great, I have to wonder. 

 

In any event, my opinion doesn't matter, we'll see how things turn out if any people here that have gone that route report back.  

Regardless it is a sorry state of affairs for these cruisers.  I have been away for a while, is it known the current status of this original cruise, is it sailing and if so, where 

1 hour ago, K32682 said:

 

It depends on the port. Places like Venice don't need cruise ships. There is plenty of tourism without the bloated boats who drop in for half a day. Tourists who stay locally spend more locally. Meanwhile, other places don't have similar levels of non-cruise visitors and are more dependent on their communities being swarmed by hordes of cruisers for a few hours each day.

 

Some cruisers seem to believe that "locals" should be grateful for cruisers. The fact is unless you are reaping the benefits personally there is a tendency is to deeply resent them. 

Let me add this to the discussion.  When a city decides to promote tourism they do that at the loss to other industries.  Now tax dollars are used to develop cruise passenger facilities which are dramatically different from cargo facilities.  Roads and bridges for other uses are bypassed for roads and bridges which lead to tourism facilities.  I grew up in a city which turned away from other business models toward tourism.  It led to such a lack of opportunity I was forced (and many in my generation) to leave to pursue a science career (or other technical)

Just now, roninman said:

No worries!

 

We really never know how these disputes will go.  Sometimes I think it's a flip of a coin...

They actually do honor the terms.  Since I had in person and internet sales there were two separate provisions for each case and disputes were handled accordingly.  Think about it this way - no cruise line or car dealership would allow credit cards if those institutions did not back their contracts and the credit card companies most definitely want their business.

2 minutes ago, roninman said:

 

The discussion was with regard to credit card chargebacks, and that a card issuing bank has a different standard than the cruise company.  To the cruise company it's a contract.   To the bank it's a financial transaction, in which consumer funds via the credit card are exchanged for goods or services, which are product offerings of a merchant.

 

US Congress has laid out laws such that if, among other reasons, the bank finds that goods or services are not as described, the card issuer may issue a permanent credit to the consumer's account.  This effectively reverses the financial transaction portion of the button press.

 

It however does not address any contract portion of the button press.  And that's why a merchant may still have recourse, in the form of lawsuit or arbitration, and collection, against the consumer.

 

 

 

I have had many merchant accounts and merchant accounts are tailored to the industry.  The credit card company will back contractual terms of the merchant if the merchant is using the proper merchant account, which I am sure NCLH has.   Anyway, again I did not mean to quote you. I am sorry for that mistake

2 minutes ago, roninman said:

You know, taking a step back, you really gotta admire the business model:

 

 

1) Charge consumers full price, in some cases several months before a single service is offered.

2) Unilaterally radically change the described and advertised service offering and letting the consumer know in no uncertain terms that they have no say or recourse.

3) While the corporation can at its whim change the service offering without compensation, the consumer has no such corresponding capability.

4) Ignoring or being snooty if consumers question business decisions of the corporation.

5) Finally offering sincere goodwill compensation to consumers for a certain time period.  Then capriciously snatching away that compensation without notice or explanation.

6) Ignoring or being snooty when consumers question why the promise of future credit was broken, instead blaming consumers for not taking the offer immediately.

7) Retaliating against consumers who complain or seek redress by banning them forever.

😎 Maintain a loyal body of dedicated social media sycophants who will readily blame the consumer for being concerned

 

... all while offering lovely brochures and web pages advising how customers are treated like family, are pampered, and are given every luxury.

 

 

No other industry comes to mind who could get off behaving in such a one-sided manner.    It's a real tribute to cruise companies that they have convinced customers they must accept this arrangement, and I mean this sincerely.

I did not mean to quote you above, sorry.  There was another post a few pages back and obviously a glitch happening on cruise critic.

20 hours ago, roninman said:

If a merchant fails to deliver goods and services as described, and the merchant fails to in good faith attempt to negotiate a compromise, then why shouldn't the consumer have initiated the chargeback, as the US Congress allowed?  If the card issuer then agrees with the consumer to issue a permanent credit for the transaction, it presumably found a lawful reason for so doing.   Maybe the merchant should also refuse future business with the bank for agreeing with the consumer.  

 

 

When you or your agent clicks that little buy button it includes a contract not a product.   That contract is heavily in favor of the cruise line and includes war, civil unrest and change of itineraries.  In this case I think the biggest complaint is the uneven and perhaps unethical handling of FCCs and cancellation requests.  Most of the cruisers affected acknowledge the contract but were originally offered some compensation later withdrawn.  They also lost hotel and airfare which should be refunded, there is absolutely no reason those can’t be at least partially refunded.  

1 hour ago, hkymre said:

I had a quote last week for the 14 day Jewel of the Baltic in Sept.24

We decided to wait for the Black Friday sale...

 

And now it's £560 dearer & the OBC isn't added!

Having spoken to HAL it appears that the Black Friday sale isn't live in the UK yet & they have no details as to when it might be

 

 

A word of advice.   I always book a refundable fare once I have decided on a cruise. HAL allows me to re-fare any booking until final payment date.  I find this the best course of action 

The last major eruption had a major impact on air travel.  Watch your flights carefully .

I hope for the best for the people in Grindarvik.  

The Noordam has the new “bookstore” style library

2 hours ago, shipgeeks said:

Good question!  I wonder if my eyeglass cleaning spray would be a good choice to use?

I should probably accept the fact that my wedding band gets wet/soapy/moisturized all the time, so no cleaner is going to hurt it.

But after ruining a pin in high school by trying to make it sparkle more, I have a concern mostly about costume earrings, metal plus stones.  Will toothpaste and old toothbrush lead to the stone getting waterlogged and falling out, for example?

Toothpaste is for base metals like surgical steel and rhinestones which are usually set by prong settings not glue. You don’t want to use it on stone cabochons like lapis, malachite and turquoise.  Toothpaste is basically soap and an abrasive “softer” than  teeth and “”softer” than most commonly used stones. Rhinestones won’t get waterlogged anymore than your glassware you drink from.  Oh, don’t put anything in the dishwasher either, the chemicals in dishwashing cleaner can be awfully harsh. And always use water at room temperature, sudden temperature changes can ruin the best gemstones.  
 

gold can handle almost anything hence its worldwide appeal but needs little except hand washing. People use sonic cleaners mainly for items which have lots of intricacies, nooks and crannies. 
 

Never use ammonia on any jewelry.  

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

And it is also possible that while one cruise docks, another may have to tender. I know when we had an overnight in Reykjavik on our cruise this summer, there was a ship that was out at sea and the passengers would have had to tender. I'm not sure, but I think I remember it being a Holland America ship. 

Sometimes that is just when you arrived.  I have been there with HAL and we docked but that day we were the only ship in port. 

46 minutes ago, FlockStar said:

I have you only booked through the cruise website, but say you went through a TA. And drinks, tips, etc wasn’t included or ship shore excursions. Would you end up booking that through the TA or on the website yourself?

That is not what happens.  With a TA you should never be paying more than the advertised price 

3 hours ago, OlsSalt said:

At one time they tried to turn the Pinnacle into a high frou-frou experience - flaming kabobs etc. The menu improvements were greatly appreciated, the fuss and showmanship was too over the top. So it passed into the memory banks too.

 

Looks like Pinnacle is still a specialty restaurant searching for an identity. Last Noordam Pinnacle dining was excellent at every levels. Hope this continues.

 

Konigsdam Pinnacle a few months prior, was terrible at every level - food, presentation, decor, seating, noise, staffing and overall ambiance.

The one reason and only reason we go to the Pinnacle is for the Prime beef, it is a few grades above the grade A in the MDR.  Well that and if it is free to us😉. We do like their lunch much better now that we have achieved 1/2 price.  I have always disdained pretentious service and the Pinnacle has plenty of that.  So many times I have talked to sophisticated cruisers who have far more travel experience than myself who have said they will never go back to the Pinnacle as they felt snubbed and these were people I totally believed.

3 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

I would love if this was a real menu that HAL will be offering, but looking at the 'tab' at the top of chrome it does say "menu-mockup", so maybe, maybe not 🤔

You make me sad, very sad

26 minutes ago, RuthC said:

'Largest' is a relative term, as even the largest inside on the Pinnacle ships are still very tiny. 

I am a confirmed inside cabin girl, with very few exceptions over the years. However, on a Pinnacle class ship I won't go below a veranda category cabin. The handicapped veranda cabin I had was quite spacious, but not much larger (and with a balcony, of course) than the insides I have had on the Vista and Signature ships (Main Deck, only). 

I am going to try the family room next year.  I was able to get one for just a few dollars more than the OV. 
 

to the OP, though I love the position of the Ks on the 10th floor they are not large in any aspect, they are tiny. 

40 minutes ago, canadarocks said:

😔 Back to the old menu … but I am really liking the “throwback” option. 
 

https://moapp-navigator.hollandamerica.com/ds-public/api/anchor/api/content/eu/menu/3ffd56ade92746be86defe8d20100deb/8d5432bb460553e0875a18e705fe17b0_heritage_menu_format_8.pdf?download=inline

Is it me or are others having trouble with this link?  HAL website has been glitchy for me all day so it could be me

5 minutes ago, lpmpsail said:

We were just on the NS last week. Rudi’s was almost always empty…staff had to go out to the Ocean bar to recruit customers. Way over-priced and then you still have to pay extra for lobster. Need to get rid of Rudi’s or lower price.

The specialty dining explosion went too far.  I now see HAL renovating their dining room menu and offering more upcharged items in the MDR. IMHO that is a better model, the staff is not stretched so thin.  

2 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

Following. Good to know that what I always thought has turned out to be true - the vast majority of the mainstream cruise lines have statuses that never expire, unlike some airlines. This might change in the future as I hear occasional stories about what cruise lines need or want to do about all the people at their respective top levels.

The perks cruises give are not as valuable as airline points and do require you continue to use their services.  I can take my airline miles and use them for a variety of services unrelated to the airline.  Some airlines are now trying non-expiring points but that is very changeable. 
 

perks like WiFi and laundry barely cost the cruise line a dime.  This is why I often negotiate perks when I see a price drop for my sailing

Never, ever rely on what “someone says”.  Read.  I am amazed how many questions are asked on this board when the policy is clearly stated in written form on the website.  At least most questioners ask prior to booking.  
 

I do think it would be beneficial to have a 24 hour look back period for cruise reservation similar to what airlines have.  Of course it wouldn’t help the OP who I assume  waited until a better deal came out and now wants to double down.