datolim

I have been in this situation before. There is no simple or cheap solution. Book another room if it is still available and expect to pay top dollar.

Yes I was going to ask on this last cruise on the Mariner they put me on a table with a family of 3. Don't they as a courtesy ask you if you mind sharing first. On the balance I would prefer to eat alone as you never know if you get some awkward table mates. Is it turns out this family was quite chatty and did not ignore me.

On the last night they added 2 more to the table so the table was full. They did not speak to us so

I thing they must felt as awkward as us.

You get the same Western food in the MDR. WJ has more Asian selection.

There are American Chinese food and Chinatown Chinese food. On the ship you get the Chinatown Chinese food with very light spices.

If you are not computer savvy it is no walk in the park. The RCL guy has told it is not really necessary. But if you have a few thousands at the checkin counter every person that don't checkin online just makes the others wait a few minutes longer.

I once ask the Next Cruise guy what is the cheapest for 8 pox on the cruise. 5 adults & 3 children. He said 2 connecting room. I could spread out to 3 rooms for more comfort.

What a gorgeous sunset! It must be very nice to enjoy the Sailaway in the Concierge Lounge.

I don't know they serve roast beef sandwich at 270, looks delicious... I have to try it may be next time. I enjoy reading your review too, it lighten up my day at work. (in a way):)

 

 

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A roast beef sandwich is a roast beef sandwich. You didn't miss much.

Raina, I missed seeing this till today but so excited to follow along. Marie and I will be on Ovation in April from Singapore to Tianjin and I was planning to do a report as well. About time we cover some of Asia. :D;p

Agree. Don't want this forum to be dominated by others in another time zone and wait for them to wake up before we get a response.

It paid off to wait to book our Harmony cruise until after boarding Oasis yesterday. Booked the same cabin, date, and price I was looking at on line at home. But by waiting to book here on Oasis this morning, scored an additional 100.00 OBC. Worth it! ;)

Yes this appears to be standard on NC booking now. $100 OBC.

Firstly, I have had a fantastic cruise, sailing from Hong Kong to Singapore via Vietnam and Thailand. This was my first cruise outside Europe and my first time on Quantum Class. So here is my brief review and happy to answer any questions for future Ovation cruisers.

 

Well... Its a lovely ship, I challenge anyone to say otherwise. Its sleek, modern and stylish giving a feel of an upmarket major city hotel. The art work around the ship is wonderful and the overall design is sleek.

There were 4100 guests sailing but I never found it too crowded and it certainly never felt like that many. Over 25% were Australian/Kiwi followed by UK, N.America, Germany and Asia. The whole cruise seemed to be gearing up for the winter Oz/NZ season as the entertainment was very Ozzie heavy and they now stock a lot of Australian beers in the bars. They even had an Australian night in the Windjammer.

 

Firstly the cabin. I was in 7214 which a balcony cabin just above the lifeboats. Its not sold as an obstructed view, which its not, but the lifeboats are very noticeable when you look out. The cabin was one of the best I have had on RCI with plenty of storage. Our cabin attendant was first class and it was always spotless.

 

Food - oh dear! This was a real let down. MDR food was average at best. I had a chocolate souffle that resembled a pot of play-doh.

Service - generally very good with a few moody crew here and there

Entertainment - Ok but the guest performers were very Australian led and very average. A lot of walk outs in the theater which personally I thought was rude, even if the act is bad. For the last show I would say nearly a third walked out.

 

The best bit of the ship is the facilities like the Seaplex, Ifly and North Star. We did pretty much everything from roller skating to Ifly. All it takes is a little forward planning and you can do it all. As soon as we got on board we logged onto the RCI app and booked Pixels, Ifly and North Star. It took all of 3 mins to do!

 

Overall it was a great 9 days but having sailed Quantum, Oasis and Freedom class ships I still favour Voyager class. I can't really fully explain why.. I just do.

 

Happy to try and answer any questions or concerns you may have.

I was on Ovation in October to Vietnam. You are lucky with just 4100 on board.

Full load is 5000+. So you will feel not crowded.

I was also on the 7th floor but all you could see is the post the lifeboats were hanging from.

On my 5N cruise the menu in the MDR do not change daily. So I ended up eating escargot and lamb shank for 3 of the 5 nights.

You are right about the entertainment. The Broadway show put me to sleep. The other is an ultra high energy show with very loud music and limbs and body flying around constantly.

Just don't fall for the 50% off for 2nd pax crape. it is cheaper without this sale.

I have never used a TA but since the prices on the website change on a daily basis, I like the flexibility of immediately booking "when the time is right" especially if the sailing is 45 or less days out. RCI has such deceptive "sales" that the price of a cruise might be one price today during a "non sale" and double the price tomorrow during a "sale." Airfare, hotels etc all fluctuate in price but I have never seen travel fares bounce around to such extremes like they do on RCI.

Yes just have to watch out for all the deceptive sales by RCI and don't end up paying more.

Here RCI have raised the local TA prices to be identical to their website price.

If I am interested in a particular cruise I would book Next Cruise on board and get the extra OBC.

But there are other cruiselines here and I am on the look out when some price war breaks out.

I'm taking the Apr round trip Singapore Cruise on Ovation and based on the cruise planner, the meals available in Wonderland for this cruise is the Dadong Wonderland since its charged at $66 instead of the $45 for the usual Wonderland charge.

 

I believe the Singapore to Tianjin cruise will be the same as well.

I will be on the same cruise in April 2018. I thought I answered this already. It is $66+ gratuities. It is a 10 course dinner which includes the famous Peking Duck, lobster, steak, escargot and other seafood.

That's compared to the average salary in the Phillipines and Indonesia. Of course they earn more on a ship than at home, otherwise they wouldn't voluntarily work those hours. Yet I think, please correct me if I'm wrong, most crew actually have a very decent, certainly more than average, education and could earn much more than average at home as well.

Being from a neighbouring country I think I can give some insight into the foreign workers situation. We do get alot of them in Singapore.

There are just no jobs in their country. Yes some of them are highly educated but getting a menial job is better than no job. Often an overseas job is not just about themselves but able to support their extended families of up to 10 people.

Getting an overseas job is no walk in the park. There are government officials to be paid off or bribed for the required permit. Then there are the employment agencies or labour contractors who can handle every thing. But they charge a tremendous amount and it takes the worker sometimes up to 2 years to pay them off. So bear in mind it is after this time that they start to see the real income.

So what sort of wages are the cruise lines paying them. Let just say very little. But the real advantage to the cruise line is the worker can be worked until they are incapacitated or really really sick.

But before you feel sorry for them and hand them a very large tip just remember their employer is ever present and "make sure" you don't spoil them and even the cash tip you give must be reported and handed over to the employer under the pain of instant firing.

In this case, the 1 day a week off is part of the "staffing" agreement between the cruise lines and the staffing agency, so the government requirement is on the staffing agency, and not the cruise line, and would be a pre-condition of obtaining staff through them, and while it would only legally apply to those crew obtained by Chinese staffing agencies, it would most likely be applied by the line across the board. There are many requirements that staffing agencies in the Philippines and Malaysia place on crew hired through them, and if they wanted a day off, and their government passed a law requiring it, then it would be applied.

Yes you are right here. I always wanted to be a gentleman and let you have the last word. That is how most labour policies are implemented. I believe the guiding hand of government is always there. Need not resort to hard legislation but government public policy should be seen as appropriate and beneficial to many.

I have always valued your contribution to this forum and hope to hear more from you in the coming days.

Mariner does not currently have Dreamworks characters.

What What Bob. I was on Mariner on Nov 6 cruise 2week ago ago they have the DW characters.

"

 

I never said the IMO or ILO could impose their requirements on flag states. I said that nations that ratify the conventions must pass enabling legislation to incorporate the convention language into national law. This is the basis of all international conventions, such as SOLAS (or do you believe that SOLAS is not enforceable on flags of convenience ships?). The cruise ships that homeport in the US do follow the MLC, SOLAS, and STCW conventions of the IMO (which language is incorporated into US federal law), and the USCG can inspect those ships to ensure compliance with these international conventions, since the US has ratified SOLAS, MLC, and STCW. However, as I've also stated, the USCG has more restrictive requirements for US flag ships, that they cannot enforce on foreign flag ships.

 

As I've listed, the major "flags of convenience", Panama, Liberia, Bahamas, and Marshall Islands, which account for 80% of the world's ocean-going tonnage, have all ratified the MLC 2006 convention.

 

China can impose a one day a week time off on Chinese flag ships, not on foreign flag ships that may "homeport" in China.

 

Please give your source for your claim that "can employ third world countries personnel at as little as US300/months"? I've given you my facts, what are yours?

 

And, news flash, nearly every seafarer in the world, myself included on a US flag ship, work a minimum of 84 hours/week (12 hours/day seven days a week). And the STCW convention, which of course you don't believe is applicable to "flags of convenience") mandates a maximum of 98 hours per 7 day period.

 

Here's a link to the Philippine's STCW government website: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwj5tvG6ytPXAhXLgVQKHSFqDQgQFggmMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fstcw.marina.gov.ph%2F&usg=AOvVaw1CIBQ82kcJh1J0mVwTTnBE

 

And here is a link where the Philippines ratified the MCL:

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjQvbLdytPXAhXLq1QKHcnxBGsQFghIMAY&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dole.gov.ph%2Fgood_news%2Fview%2F132&usg=AOvVaw3a0vl3OBS1UDrTRTlJm_IK

 

 

 

And the Philippines provide 30% of the entire world's merchant mariners.

China has no own flagged cruise ships. I am talking about RCL and NCL. If China can impose the 1 day off per week why can't the US. This may be as far as I would go before we get into some other argi-bargi arguments.

Let's see what that list of "84 of the richest nations" that have ratified the MLC contains:

 

Philippines

Malaysia

Myanmar

Sri Lanka

Thailand

Tunisia

Morocco

India

Ghana

Gabon

Bangladesh

Albania

 

Sure sounds like all the places that have the highest standards of living to me. :rolleyes:

 

Even if a crew member from Malaysia is being paid $18,000/year, that is still less than mariners make from the "developed" or "richest nations" pay their mariners. A case in point is NCL's POA, which must pay Hawaii minimum wage, so using the same calculations I did previously, the crew minimum for a 14 hour work day is $3700/month, or twice the international minimum.

 

Let's see, I've worked in the maritime industry for 42 years, and I know crew costs, both US flag and foreign flag, and why ships fly flags of convenience. The crew cost is a part of it, but by no means the largest part. What really separates US crew cost from international crew cost, above the twice amount (and trained US seafarers, (as opposed to cruise ship hotel crew) make far more than the Hawaiian minimum listed above) iis insurance costs. US crew are entitled to compensation as well as medical care costs while unemployed due to a shipboard injury, while international crew are only entitled to medical care for the injury. And we all know about the "bad back" and "whiplash" claims, which are ripe in the maritime field.

 

Much of the advantage of flying a flag of convenience is the ability to avoid things like consumer protection, environmental regulations, safety regulations, taxes, and registration fees.

Let us not get into the weeds here.

Your original premise of this is the law or "By law" is you put it is a fallacy.

The IMO and the ILO have no authority what so ever to pass laws. They have recommendations or ideal positions which even the rich nations like the US do not follow. There are as some would put, just "talking shops"

You defeat your own arguement when you said countries can impose IMO and ILO "recommendations" on user countries with flag of convenience. Why the cruise ships homeport in the USA just don't follow these recommendations. Let just start with giving the crew 1 day off per week. China impose this on cruise ships homeport in China. The US do not.

The dirty little secret in the cruise industry is the cruise company can employ third world countries personnel at as little as US300/months and work them 70 to 80 hours per week. Some would say this is slavery nowadays. The flip side is that the US consumer can enjoy cruises at bargain basement prices.

The IMO (International Maritime Organization) and the ILO (International Labor Organization) have promulgated the MLC 2006 (Maritime Labor Convention), which governs the working conditions of all seafarers, including pay, much like the IMO's SOLAS Convention governs safety on all ships. Currently, 84 nations have ratified the MLC, including nearly every maritime flag nation. Ratification of international conventions like this require the ratifying nation to pass "enabling" legislation so that the terms of the international convention are included in law in that country. Labor law is the jurisdiction of the flag state, regardless of where the ship is in the world. "Port states", those nations where ships make port calls have the right to enforce the MLC conventions if they are found to be not followed on a ship. This is just like the USCG inspecting foreign flag cruise ships, they can enforce the SOLAS regulations, but not their own more stringent regulations that apply to US flag ships.

 

The figure I quoted is inclusive of the DSC. As I stated, the DSC can, and is, used to reach the minimum wage. As for the 40 hour work week, again as I said, while the crew on cruise ships are not paid hourly, the MLC sets the minimum wage as being for a 40 hour work week (since the vast majority of seafarers are not cruise ship crew, and they are paid hourly), and defines any hours in excess of 40 hours per week to be overtime, payable at a rate of 1.25 times the base hourly rate.

 

If you take the minimum wage of $614/month, and divide by 320 (four 40 hour weeks), you get an hourly minimum of $3.83. This, again, is made up of both a base wage and DSC. Now, 1.25 times $3.83 is $4.79, and if you figure that the crew is working the mandated maximum number of hours allowed by the STCW (Standards of Training, Competency, and Watchkeeping, another international convention applying to seafarer's work conditions) of 14 hours/day, this means a 98 hour work week. Taking out the 40 hours of base wage, means they get 58 hours of overtime, or $277.82/week. This results in a monthly minimum of about $1700. Working 12 hours/day results in $1400/month, so my original figures are a little low. Again, all of this is just calculations, and the crew contracts specify a monthly compensation equal to these figures, without the hourly breakdown, composed of both wage and DSC.

 

Also note that while the, say, $1800/month figure, is only for the months of the contract, so if the crew works a 10 month contract, they earn $18,000/year, but this averages out to be $1500/month over the 12 months of the year.

Sorry, I dont buy this one bit. There are 200 odd countries in the world and 84 of the richest nations in the world don't count. Why are ships worldwide flying the flag of convenience of the third world countries like Panama and the likes. Your theory about the IMO and the ILO is correct but reality is something else.

The crew who participate in the DSC (Daily Service Charge, I refuse to call it a gratuity) pool, are paid a combination of wage and DSC. By law, the minimum wage for seafarers is $614/month, for a 40 hour work week, and overtime at 1.25 times the base wage. While they are not paid hourly, this formula is used to calculate their "wage", which works out to about $1500-1800/month. As long as the DSC portion of their wage is sufficient (enough people leave it in place) to make this minimum wage, the cruise line does not have to do anything, so their wage can vary each week based on DSC. If enough DSC is removed to lower the wage below the minimum, the cruise line has to make up the balance. The DSC makes up about 75-90% of their wage.

 

As stated, any gratuity you feel you wish to leave above the DSC is completely up to you, and is not expected, and should not be based on anyone else's standards or feelings. If you feel the service you received warranted something extra, then leave a tip, amount totally up to you.

Could you enlighten us as to what you mean by "By law". Which country has pass this law and how is it enforced in International waters. Which country has jurisdiction if the ship is homeport in another country and how does your statement that "By law" is to be adjudicated.

Your other statement about $1500-1800/month is very high according to the "common knowledge" we read in these forum. The other things about 40 hour work week and other things you said did excite me but I think we would just deal with what you mean by "By law".

$20 per 24 hr period of Surf.

 

 

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It is 24 hr on Mariner and 1 calendar day on the Ovation. It is on a sliding scale and cheaper near the end of the cruise. I remember paying $15 on the second last day when I needed it most.

She is presently homeport in Singapore and I am on her once a month.

Needs to freshen up but notice the more serious vibration and deck chair ratling on top deck. Maybe cavition problem.

Here's an explanation:

https://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=52849870&postcount=7

Great article That is why the on the newer ships like the Ovation the ac will not work if the balcony door is not closed and locked down. The thermostat would not allow you to set the temperatures.

Not the same on the older ships like the Mariner.

Just curious since RCL now insist on both adults to buy the drink packages because of the sharing problem why not each bring 2 bottles on board but check your luggage on different lines and at different times. Can't see how they can solve this problem.

My 2 cents again. Just know that the local can only go on the ships in large groups. The need a government permit for that which are only issue to large government sanctioned TA. So they would move on the ships in large swarms. WJ and the elevators becomes a nightmare. However on shore in Shanghai or Beijing you find the individuals are as polite and courtiers as in any worldwide cities.

I am on the Mariner about once a month in SG.

I only see shrimp once per cruise in the WJ. The little shrimp is also served one time in the MDR.

Is it just cruises in this part of the world. We eat alot of seafood here.

End up ordering lobster at least once per cruise.