howiefrommd

32 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

Thank you all for the great replies.  For the Grand Arctic next year we have BH and although the eventual premium will be quite high we have only been adding to insurance as we have made partial payments.  We will make a large payment in November and then the final payment on 1 January so then the insurance will be paid.

 

Wes, I will contact Steve (or I will let you do all the planning and just jump on the bandwagon).  For Arctic we are insuring full cost for cancellation and trip interruption; I would like to be able to cut that down for the WC.

 

Again, thanks for all the replies.

 

Wes, we will see you and Ida onboard!

 

Marc

 

PS For the 2023 WC I will be on Medicare but not Arlene; just another wrinkle.

Not to confuse the situation more, traditional Medicare only covers for hospitalized care in a Hospital that has a provider agreement (and are appropriately licensed by the State licensing agency) with CMS.  In the US, almost all hospitals have such a provider agreement.  The general advise is that traditional Medicare does not cover for care outside of the United States, it's Commonwealths or Territories).  There are some unique exceptions, but would even confuse it more.  For someone that has a Medicare Advantage Plan (aka Medicare Part C), some of those plans (as an add on feature) cover care outside of the US.  

In most cases, when a person seeks medical or hospital care outside of the US, they entity of provider will request payment.  

I live in Baltimore, Maryland so we have many people  seek treatment here from out of State  (and country). I know in a previous post, someone mentioned Medjet.  I have several colleagues whose patients have utilized their services and they were quite pleased. 

As a clinician, I wonder how if someone needs acute tertiary care, how the process could ever be from ship to receiving hospital.  The degree of expertise and equipment is somewhat limited on ships, so I would image that a stop at a full service hospital would be in the mix.  

With the dramatic rise (only kidding) in the value of NCL stock, maybe the CEO bought 7 million dollars worth of stock with the proceeds of the sale of his home a few weeks ago. 

Just now, greykitty said:

 

 

I will say del Rio does what he's supposed to do - puts the best face forward in a difficult situation.  I think even the analysts felt for the guy.

 

You are absolutely correct, but then again that is the job of a CEO to due.  You could tell there was even some hesitation in their voice when asking him questions.  

Can you imagine what the Q3 call will be like if nothing changes.  WOW 

Restructure as in voluntary or via Chapter 11 Bankruptcy? 

All of these companies  have the metrics as to where they make money and where they do not.  I also believe there will be some survival, but what we knew will never be again.  Wherever the data takes (as far as maximum return) the cruise lines, that is what we will have.  Obviously we will not be able to do it for what prior costs where, but that will be the price we pay to enjoy cruising.  

That is actually the logo for the University of Maryland School of Medicine

14 hours ago, Dolebludger said:

Largest obstacle facing the cruise lines (and airlines and grocery stores) is whether the have enough clear cash to out-last unprofitable customer volume during the time it takes for vaccines and/or treatments to be introduced to stop the pandemic. I hope they all do!

I cannot agree more.  The markets will determine who survives and does not.  I profess to have little knowledge about the economics of the travel industry, but when I look at the cruise lines, read some of the investment columns, cruise lines have an amazing amount of debt, not a bright horizon (sans testing and a effective vaccine)  and bleeding money.  Once people stop paying their final payment for cruises (in their own gut, probably know will not happen) the walls will come crumbling.

3 minutes ago, flossie009 said:

 

..... and, IMO, that is one of the more ridiculous requirements. 

 

If I suffer a serious medical problem on board a cruise ship I would expect the medical staff to do what they could to stabilise my situation but then make every effort to get me to an onshore hospital as soon as possible.

 

This attitude of "Keep everyone on board" was what led to the previous issues of passengers and crew being stranded on board, further person-to-person transmissions; and finally giving the press a field day with sensational reports of "plague ships" & "floating petri-dishes"

When you dig into the CDC guidance to date, they are not talking about stabilizing and triaging, they are talking ICU level of care.  Would love to know where they are going to get the level of physicians and nurses to accomplish this task.

17 hours ago, TravelBluebird said:

Well I wish they would extend this to at least the first 6 months of 2021 cruises as well; we’ll have to pay our 25 day Amazon Celebration cruise for next April in early November (150 days). We are happy to do it if there is some clarity on when cruising will resume, how it will resume, what ports may be open, etc., but the way things are going we don’t think we’ll know by then. My husband and I will have to decide if we want to tie up the money with all the uncertainty.  60 days, or 90 days at the outside makes much more sense in the age of COVID.

We are also booked on that cruise (Navigator) and unless things have really improved by November 3, we will not be giving any more money to any Cruise line.  I have enough FCC on Regent, certainly do not need anymore.  

10 minutes ago, greykitty said:

Umm, MSC apparently feels that's do-able.  I mean, it's inhumane to most people, and certainly should be appalling to those cruisers who feel that the crew welcomes and treats them as 'family', but....and of course doesn't address the issue of all those passengers coming to the ship, who knows if they're infected, no doubt not wearing masks every minute of the day, and probably getting well within six feet of crew members.  

 

With any luck, the idea of so treating crew is totally forbidden.  How anyone could enjoy their trip knowing that the crew is trapped is hard for me to wrap my head around.

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/it-s-inhumane-crew-members-who-return-to-work-may-have-to-forgo-shore-visits/ar-BB17iwLG#:~:text=A spokesperson for MSC Cruises confirmed in an,an emergency during the company’s “initial phased restart.”

If the guests get off and end up getting this highly contagious aerosolized virus, the staff (as well as fellow passengers) will probably end up getting it anyway.  As has now been shown, masks are just one of the protective measures we should utilize.  Many scientists/clinicians are now saying that when in close proximity situations, eye protection (such as goggles) should be used. I know we all enjoy cruising, but there is a reality to the science. 

Just now, johng75370 said:

 

Of course it is a joke!  Sorry I did not make that more clear.  However, these are real statements of real citizens, so take that as you will. 

I thought it was staged, but it looks like it really happened.  Wow, makes me more nervous every day.  

3 minutes ago, johng75370 said:

Not trying to stir the pot about Palm Beach County, but hope you get a laugh from the John Oliver coverage of the mask hearings there:

 

Please tell me this is a joke.  Its been a long day lol

I would leave that to the infectious disease and epidemiological experts.  From some of the stuff I marginally read, they did not agree with that.  They were looking in the context of health care workers (docs, nurses, etc.)  and it was a premise they did not support.  

2 minutes ago, Travelcat2 said:

howiefrommd - the only information that we follow is from a Medical Doctor, Virologist or Scientist.  The last sentence in your response to Bellagio Cruiser is puzzling.  What did she say that was not warranted or factual?  From the posts on CC, it seems that Bellagio Cruiser is in favor of wearing masks, social distancing, washing hands, etc.  Kindly elaborate.  Thank you.

 

I was trying to point out that masks have become a political issue.  In fact I provided a hyperlink to a well written, thoughtful, non-political piece that appeared in one of the medical journals I get daily.  

6 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

FYI....I live in Palm Beach county, where masks are mandated in public.  

Just took a look at the statistics for Palm Beach County.  They have a very high rate of positivity, hospitalizations and deaths. It looks like third in a State (an Florida is either number one or two in the US right now) that is having problems getting this under control.  Obviously you and your community are quite compliant, but if you look at the numbers, it is quite dangerous.  

4 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

Sorry you are upset with my “tone”.... and, what did I say that was not factual ?
 

Interesting I called two former classmates that are working as Intensivist ICU docs in Palm Beach County Florida (in two different larger hospitals) and they said the ICUs are like a war zone down there.  Both indicated that masks where not even required by State Law. Speaking to my colleagues, where I live, in Baltimore (where masks are required by law) they are not seeing anywhere near the amount of acutely ill patients.  Hopkins runs an excellent site that will break down all of the metrics (New cases, infection rate, positivity rate, etc.) and it is interesting to compare the rates of  SARS-CoV-2 rates are in States with required mask usage and those without.  

As I articulated previously, I deliberately do not quote from the talking heads (CNN or FOX) nor their online sites, as they both seem to be driven by a particular slant.  As a start, I would like to suggest a more clinically based article that can be accessed by the following hyperlink. https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87617  It is noted in the fifth paragraph how this has become a political statement.  Albeit, not a peer reviewed article, once you get away from the talking heads you get more focused, unbiased information. 

30 minutes ago, cruiseluv said:

Maybe easier for passengers to distance, but I dont see how that's possible for crew, specially in their sleeping / living quarters, working in the kitchen, the laundry, etc. etc

You are fully correct.  I can think of no way that staff would be able to share housing/close quarters. 

Made a typo correction on prior post.  Will not allow me to close or delete this box, so I had to post something lol.

55 minutes ago, Bellaggio Cruisers said:

We live in Florida and wearing a mask is not a political issue. We live in an adult community. A variety of political opinions. Wherever we go in our neighborhood, everyone is masked and follows social distancing.
There are stupid people all over. Especially the young people. And crowds. 
More people all over the country need to be forced into following the rules. 
Please  don’t make assumptions from news reports. 
sheila

First off, I was using one particular incident (that happened to have happened in Florida) not using Florida as an example.  I can tell you I have classmates and people I trained with who are working tirelessly in Hospitals throughout Florida trying to keep people alive. I cannot disagree more that masks have not turned into a political statement.  It is not an issue of Florida, it is an issue for the US.   I do not make assumptions from news reports.  If you should notice in prior postings,  I will usually give reference to my information.  I deliberately have not referenced any talking heads or their corresponding publications.  My entire career decisions are based on science.  Some of the best professors I had (an very distinguished physicians) have always taught me to follow the science. 

The tone and implications in your post is is not warranted, but more important not factual.  

One of the big challenges we have in the US is for some reason wearing a mask has become a political issue.  Anecdotally, you see on the news people who have meltdowns over being asked to wear a mask to enter a store.  I have seen in Florida, where a person pulled a gun a person who was asking them to don a mask.

1 hour ago, Steve Q said:

The question some might ask is how does this result impact other cruise lines? Some might argue that this will not impact Regent since they are very different lines. In many ways that is true, but from a financial perspective, there is little difference. Every cruise line will have to draw their own conclusions. The amount of capital, both human and financial, required to begin cruising again will be substantial. To incur this same result would be awful. Most lines are simply not in a financial position to start up again in the near future only to end up with the same result. The financial losses would be unacceptable. It seems more and more that a possible vaccine is the only option. 

SARS-CoV-2 is basically an aerosolized virus.  Any cruise line large or small will have a very difficult time attempting to prevent/manage this virus.  Albeit, Regent (and other similar small ships) have a larger space ratio, the reality of social distancing will be extremely challenging.  In fact, in some cases, smaller ships may have a harder time in initiating safe social distancing protocols.  As I remember the Regent ships I have been on, some do not have two hallways. As a simple example, if you have two hallways, you can make them one way (similar to what supermarkets have done). 

I totally agree that whatever line ends up having an outbreak, it will be beyond devastating for their business.   

Just heard from a friend that his holiday (December) cruise on Crystal was just cancelled.  He indicated they cancelled all cruises in December. Please do not have a melt down that I mentioned another cruise line.  It looks like they are being pro active. 

2 hours ago, Travelcat2 said:

The number of people that do not care about how many are dying on a daily basis is obviously growing.  

 

Just heard on the news (within the hour) that the vaccine in the U.S. is expected to have a 90% effectiveness rate.  They hope to start inoculating the most at risk people in December/January (this also, according to the news, includes the elderly and those with underlying conditions).  The hope is that all people in the U.S. will be vaccinated by mid-year 2021 but it could take as long as the end of 2021.  I am not claiming this to be fact....... is it is simply what was stated on the news.*

 

The next issue will be the predicted 30% of the country that will refuse to take the vaccine.  One can only hope that this will be a requirement for sailing on a ship.

 

*They still do not know how long the immunity will last and have not shared whether the the vaccine is a "live" virus or not.  A "live" virus would make it impossible for many people (particularly elderly) from having the vaccine.

The news today that many of the talking heads were reporting on was in regard to a study which tested the J &J (pre-clinical) vaccine with chimps or other primates which appears to have successfully initiated an immune/antibody response without significant side effects. So now we can move onto looking at humans with varying doses is the quick translation

Just to explain a little more. J and J will now begin their first trials in humans (clinical trials). Their are 3 phases (1,2,3). Seems like they are combining their phase 1 and 2 trials to speed things up. Nevertheless, they are a bit behind 3 other companies (Moderna, Pfizer, Oxford/Astea-Zeneca) who just started their phase 3 trials, which is more advanced. Our hope should be that all these trials are successful because of the amount of vaccine that will be needed. Plus, there’s no guarantee that the first three trials will be successful.

On 7/29/2020 at 10:04 AM, greykitty said:

Press release included this sentence.  I think this communication promise may be a step in the right direction for many customers.  I'm assuming NCLH means each of the lines will adhere to the update schedule.  At least people won't have to read tea leaves to guess the timing of the next announcement.

 

In an effort to provide additional transparency, beginning in August, the Company plans to provide an update at the end of each month regarding the status of voyage suspensions, including any potential extensions.

 

https://www.marketwatch.com/press-release/norwegian-cruise-line-holdings-ltd-announces-extension-of-suspension-of-voyages-2020-07-29-9197146

All of the cruise lines are in a rough position.  Considering DHHS Secretary (Azar) signed a continuation PHE on July 23, which would supersede even the CDC "No Sail Notice," then fold in the 60 day comment period in the CFR, then the lengthy task of coordinating and responding to the comments in the final rule, they know they will not be cruising for many, many months.  The joint consultant team that Royal and NCL has several people (including a former Secretary of HHS) who know the regulatory process quite well.  I know I have commented several times regarding the length of time to hopefully develop, distribute and administer any potential immunizations/vaccine, so I will leave that out of the equation.

One thing that we also must remember is the division at CDC that works on this (specific to the cruise industry) is quite small.  I have a funny feeling (once again personal feeling) that CDC has many balls in the air right now.  I have worked with many of them over the years, and they are dedicated group of scientists, unfortunately it is political appointees that make most of the final decisions.   Another reality is that we are in an election year which tends to paralyze the regulatory bodies. 

So the cruise lines certainly have to know the reality of the regulatory process.  They also know there is a financial reality of paying bills and keeping the lights on.  When I have tried to understand the financial working of cruise lines, I can never figure out much, only they are in lots of debt and they most probably take new money to pay of old bills.