AnhaltER1960

2 hours ago, notamermaid said:

The Nickovision has successfully completed her journey and the MS Savor has also arrived in Düsseldorf. The Nickovision as the first post lock down river cruise ship to sail, attracted a lot of attention along the way. Here is a German report from Wertheim where the passengers were greeted by the mayor: https://www.nokzeit.de/2020/06/09/flusskreuzfahrt-mit-fieberthermometer/

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you for reporting at that link to the newspaper article. It shows certainly some attention for Nicko Cruises and indirect advertisment. But it also mentions the dire reality. 34 pax on a 220 capacity ship will not keep the industry afloat in the long run, neither will the prospect to fill half of the capacity during corona-times.

Two consecutive years of low water plus corona were too much for the Dresden fleet of paddle steamers. The "Saxon Steamboat Shipping Company", which runs the largest fleet of paddle steamers worldwide, nine ships, filed for bankruptcy today. Ships continue to operate, but the future of this company and the Dresden White Fleet, which offer day excursions up and downriver from Dresden to Saxon Switzerland and to Meissen is uncertain.

Croisieurope suspend their operations until July 15th https://www.croisieuroperivercruises.com/information/coronavirus-postponement-cruises

On 5/18/2020 at 4:47 PM, geovet said:

Interesting info for cruise industry.

 

https://www.cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/river-cruise-news/22963-scylla-releases-new-covid-19-onboard-protocols-for-riverboat-fleet.html

It appears to me that measures taken against Covid-19 are like advertising: 50 percent are wasted, you just dont know, which 50 percent.

But I have got the impression that this concept is detailed, even too detailed, in the customers section and the interface crew to customer, but very vague in the crew section, "Procedures are being put in place to ensure social distance between crew members in sleeping, recreational and mutual areas for the crew". What does that mean ? Single cabin for each crew member ? Probably not, otherwise they would have written. But with double/multiple cabins for the crew social distancing cannot work.

The test regime for the crew leaves holes, as the tests are not fully reliable. In Germany we have the experience from football now, players are being tested three times before their first match, they are isolated in between. Their had been several cases that the whole squad was tested negative in the first round, but some players tested positive in the next test a couple of days later. Tranferred to a ship, this means with that concept, the virus is on the ship, and ships air ventilation will spread it all over the place. Forget desinfecting the guardrails then. You need to isolate the crew until a second test offboard. 

Yes, all this rises the production costs. If it will lead to higher prices the market will decide. I do not see that people are willing to pay more for a reduced experience. Also, the cruises for 2020 and well into 2021 are already sold and I am not sure, under which jurisdiction a later additional surcharge is possible. In Germany it is at least a tricky procedure, depending on the specific contract..

Today, Ascension Day, is a public holiday in Germany, and traditionally celebrated as "Fathers Day" (even "Mens Day" in some parts). Lots of males leaving their families at home, walking in groups dragging a cart full of beer and other goodies behind them and/or crowding the beer gardens. Perfect weather, sunshine all over the country and temps expected in the twenties Celsius (seventies for those in imperial units). And, hoooray, beer gardens may open, at least in some states in Germany. Even in Bavaria, which ran a fairly strict closure policy in the last weeks.

But in Corona-days social distancing applies. The rules are complicated, even more complicated when listening to the bavarian minister of economy, Hubert Aiwanger: https://www.bayern3.de/aiwanger-corona-abstand-halten-biergarten-spruch-interview-zitat  (I am afraid, this statement, which does have the potential to become a classic in every comedy show, is in German only). Anyway, the police are on alert to observe distancinf rules, not an easy task  in times of herd intoxication.

The more restrictions are loosened, the more people keep forgetting the virus is still active and we are, where we were in, say, February: Without medication, without vaccination against the virus. We have learnt a bit, like masks DO help. But it is still dancing on a volcano. Stay healthy.

11 hours ago, notamermaid said:

I went by process of elimination: Rhine and time frame June to July 2020, the result is: https://www.viva-*****/en/cruiselisting/?d=6&f=2020-6-1&t=2020-7-31&s=4%2C2%2C8%2C9%2C7%2C5%2C14%2C10%2C3%2C13%2C12&a=2&c=&b=price&o=asc

 

notamermaid

 

Thank you. That was a better filter I used. But it makes sense that cruises within one country are the first ones to start. Much easier to coordinate than e.g. a full Rhine cruise, starting in the Netherlands, passing Germany and France to end in Switzerland or vice versa. Although I still consider a cruise in June very optimistic.

17 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Viva Cruises are getting ready to sail in June.

 

Are you sure ? I did not see a cruise starting before August 8th on their website.

53 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

I have updated the list at the top of this thread per the updated Cruise Critic article [5-11-20] at https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5206/

 

Changes:

•  Avalon: now August 1 [thanks to @copyace]

Avalon website (retrieved May 11th, 2000 hrs Central European Summer time) says thy are suspending operations until August 31st (look https://www.avalonwaterways.com/avalon-assurance/ )

The situation is complex regarding nationalities of guests (as well as crew) and health&safety onboard and an shore during excoursions. Each country has its own regulations, which are changing weekly now, so cross-border-cruises are almost impossible to plan. Can the crew reach the ship ? Quarantaine required ? How much cabin capacity onboard can be used ? Can the guests reach and leave the ship ? How to organise excursions, will bus travel be allowed, are onshore meals possible, andandand. 

17 hours ago, Roz said:

Not sure how the 2 seatings at breakfast and lunch will work when most tours begin and end around the same time.  Do you think we won't be able to get our own coffee and cappuccino out of the coffee machine in the common area on Uniworld?  They're taking away the trays and jars of goodies, so do I have to have a staff get me a mini biscotti to go with my afternoon coffee?  Won't this involve more staffing which translates into higher fares? 

Yes, this means more effort and higher production costs. In the long run this will lead to higher fares. In the short run, I am not sure, as the cruises are already sold. So it will depend on the legislation and the individual contact if the price can be changed unilaterally.

17 hours ago, Roz said:

 

As far as gloves, masks and sanitizer, it's nice they're making them available, but I hope they're not required.  I'm not sailing on a ship or going on a tour where they're required.  

That is another point of the health and safety plans: Are the customers willing to take their role in the play ?

Gloves are not mandatory, at least here in Germany. Some shops here offer them to customers, bjut leave it at their discretion to use them. Same with sanitiziers. Just dont inject them ^^. You will not get around masks though. They are compulsory on public transport and will also be on private tour buses. Also you have to wear them in museums, castles, churches and other sites. Depending on the details of the health and safety plans, also on board, too eg.g while moving in the aisles or lobby.

For the time being, these are safety plans developed by the ship operators. These still have to be approved by the health authorities.

In Germany we do have an interesting experiment going on with the football league, who want to complete their season. They worked out an elaborate health and safety plan, which found approval even by football-critics. Now this plan will meet reality (and we know from the military that no plan survives the first contact with the enemy) and we will see which pats of the plan do work, which ones dont and which parts cannot work. However, this plan holds a lot of screening and testing the football league is willing to pay. I cannot see that effort for river cruises.

We have learned from ocean ships that the ventilation is a critical path for spreading the virus. There are no inside cabins on river cruise ships (at least I am not aware of), but there are the aquarium cabins, which rely on air ventilation, as you cannot open windows there. Might well be that the authorities will request them to be not used. This would mitigate pressure on the meals sessions, but the reduced capacity jeopardizes the economic viability.

Regensburg to Nurember is sailing on the Main-Danube-Canal with a time-consuming dozen or so locks. Even worse, the shipping authorities allocate the slots to pass the lock and with plenty of traffic this is not very calculable in terms of a timetable. Nuremberg and Regensburg are not too far apart, maximum two hours by coach, rather 90 mins, but one day by ship. So it some sort of optimising shipping times to skip Nuremberg, maybe also better to place ships along the Danube in case of low water to use them as boatels.

And, Viking does not have good memories on the Main-Danube-Canal....

In a normal year we now would start looking into water level of the Elbe. The effects of last week's rain is gone and the Dresden reading has reached a level, which proved critical in the last years. Dresden reading is at 76 cm now.

For the time being noone is bothered, as the Elbe cruises are called off until well into June (Croisieurope) or end of June (Viking). It needs lots of rain until then to make the ships sailing then. Viking has planned boatel in July through September anyway.

River Cruising is too small as a business to be in the radar of Corona directives, so we sont have any specific regulations there. But to transfer regulations in place for restaurants, scheduled to open sometime in May with capacity restrictions, it means reduced capacity against more effort (service insteas of buffet), a combination controllers dont like. Excoursions are hardly possible, as leisure coach travel keep being forbidden as well as large gatherings in public space, which includes guided tours. Quietvox systems might be a solution outdoors, but not for indoor visits, as you cannot keep distances there. Museums are allowed to open now, but do not offer guided tours.

In an earlier post I expressed my doubts on a cruising season on the Elbe this year. These doubts are getting "louder".

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Yes, I was a bit skeptical about this quick change within days, not sure that this can happen so fast, but I decided to post it as I had read it.

 

As regards, the weekend reporting being reduced, that was mentioned again on the news yesterday again as well. Also, for electronic compiling reasons, the figures of the RKI and the Johns Hopkins University for Germany differ by several thousand, which so far I think I have not pointed out.

 

notamermaid

 

Yes, Johns Hopkins University are doing a great job in accounting the figures. Quite surprising that an institution 5000 miles away are quicker than the responsible organisation (Robert Koch Institue) here in Germany. They are trailing by two to three days.

@notamermaid, sorry, if you got me wrong, when I wrote "confuse, at least it did here ".  I should have added "here in Germany" , I did not want to say here in the forum.

3 hours ago, terry&mike said:

notamermaid, I wanted to take a moment and applaud the government of Germany, and your Chancellor Merkel. During this interesting time in our world, your leadership seems to be a model for how to steer through a crisis. 

Thank you, I will take it into consideration at the next elections, I did not vote her last time.

But I do admit, the German government did a good job in this situation. They have missed some things in the past including a report by Robert-Koch-Institue to the federal parliament from 2012, which gave a scenario of "a novel CoV-Virus spreading from a wild animal market in Asia" and described pretty exactly, what happened now (or would have happened in a baseline scenario without counteraction). Including shortage of protective gear like tyvek suits and masks, shortage of medicine, collapsing supply chains and so on.

So Germany was warned and could have been prepared better. They do a bit of chaos in introducing the tracing app, but generally in the situation the federal government under  Merkel reacted quickly and with determination. And they were not fuzzing about only a flu, injecting disinfectives and things like that (the international competition in shockingly weak). Instead they strengthened the health systems, did hard cuts into public life and the economy and put an open cheque on the table, "whatever it takes".  Helped by negative interest rates Germany can get on the borrowing markets.

A bit more difficult is the reopening now. The federal government has only a coordinating role, the federal states are in charge. This starts to fringe now. Yes, there are local differences between the states, with the eastern states less affected, also the north of Germany less than the the denser populated south or west. Others may put it, the protestant parts of Germany less affected than the catholic parts, not a 100 & match though. So a competition started, Angela Merkel called it an orgy of opening debates (in German "Öffnungsdiskussionsorgien", a word-bomb with 25 letters). The focus is rather the economy than supporting families and we will see the results with a two week time gap.

Btw, the Audi lovers: There never was a directive to shut down car factories in Germany. Closing them was/is purely a company decision.

On 5/3/2020 at 10:05 AM, djh1959 said:

 I did read today in the newspaper though that there had been a spike in new cases in Germany since a slight relaxing of the regulations.  Is that true or like much in the newspapers, total nonsense?

In short, nonsene, but with some chance, not the fault of the journalist.

The numbers fluctuate with a repeating pattern of lows on the weekends and peaks at the beginning of the new week - the virus is active on weekends, the authorities are not really. But there hasnt really been a "spike" in new cases beyond that. However, our health minister Jens Spahn did some secret mental arithmetics in a press conference on the current active cases a couple of days ago and gave a number, which was by some 6000 too high, into the room. Reason was, he dedudted the number of the recovered cases from the figure of the total reported cases, but forgot to subtract the figure of the deceased people. So for half an hour or so, until this mistake had been detected, a wrong number was out. Maybe that is the background to the report youve read. Also the RKI (Robert Koch Institute, our top scientific body on health and epidemic issues) changed the reproduction value from 0,7 to 1,0 and back to 0,75 within days. As this is a statistically derived figure (not an observed one), this rather looks like some statistical artefact and might confuse, at least it did here. 

Could be both or even longer, depending on weekday and time. You could easily lose an hour in La Spezia during rush hour. The 1:15 sound sportive even in off-peak times, given you are not used to italian style of driving.

1 hour ago, gnome12 said:

Having translated the German, they seem to only offer rebooking until October 2020 (not the 2021 that I need) but I will try. Thanks.

That is only half of the story. Your ticket, if bought before March 13th and valid until May 4th (sorry, had as misspelling in my earlier post), is now an open date ticket to be used until Oct 31st. You dont have to do anything, if you want to use the ticket until then. If you cannot use your ticket until that date, you can cancel it and receive a voucher, as steamboats has written. The voucher is valid three years.

1 hour ago, gnome12 said:

I have 2 reservations (Frankfurt Airport to Koblenz in May and Strasbourg to Frankfurt Airport in June), both booked on Super Saver fares

 

The webpage you need is here: https://www.bahn.com/en/view/home/help/corona.shtml?dbkanal_007=L14_S02_D002_KIN0063_INT-_CORONA-Teaser_LZ01

In short, tickets bought before March 13th good for travel until May 3rd may be exchanges or returned. May 3rd is the date, until all touristical travel in Germany is banned (for the time being, the political decision to extend that has to bet met the forthcoming dates), so this date might be changed by Feutsche Bahn, too. If the ticket was bought on or after March 14th, standard cancellations apply (for Super Saver next to nothing, afair).

Elbe Day, commemorating the meeting of soviet an US-soldiers in and near Torgau  at the end of WWII, is coming up at the end of the week. 75 years ago, on April 25th this historic meeting, truncating the Third Reich into two parts, took place. It is remembered year by year ever since with public events, visits of veterans, even at the coldest years of the Cold War.

This year all celebrations have been called off for obvious reasons.

Cruising on the Elbe river does not take place until at least mid-June (Croisieurpoe) or end of June (Viking). So water levels wont be an issue until then. However, spring so far war far too dry, there hasnt been any rain since mid-March. Consequently the water level has fallen constantly since.   Notamermaid has mentioned Dresden level with a snapshot of 91 cm - low, but still enough for sailing. But without rain it will be another two or three weeks until the ships are grounded.

No good prospects for cruising the Elbe in the upcoming months, maybe even for the rest of this year. The German government has rules out large gatherings until end of August (even the Munich Oktoberfest has been called off). Unclear yet how these "large gatherings" break down to cruise ships and their land excursions. Entering Germany requires a 14 day-quarantaine until who knows And, finally, there are rumours that the Czech Republic might close their border for one year (not really just rumours, Milos Zeman, President of the Republic spoke about that) .

Update for Croisieurope. They have cancelled ("postponed") all cruises starting on or before June 15th this year.

https://www.croisieuroperivercruises.com/information/coronavirus-postponement-cruises

The Netherlands have extended their anti-corona- actions. All gatherings are forbidden until June 1st (look here https://www.government.nl/latest/news/2020/03/23/stricter-measures-to-control-coronavirus )

So at least the Amsterdam bit of Rhine cruises will be affected, but I do not see any river cruises in Europe in May and probably even beyond.. Stay healthy and stay @home.

Serious trouble indeed, somehow I do have a bad rumour in my stomach, which tells me, we will not see any cruise operations on the Elbe this year. With cruises suspended until end of April by Viking (similar with other cruise lines), EU- borders closed for non EU-citizens until April 20th (with the chance to go into extratime), on top, czech border closed for all foreigners open end, there wont be cruises until well into summer, I guess. Maybe June/July. From what Ive heard, Viking were planning to do the boatel job in July/Aug/Sept anyway (they learnt from the last years ...). And the Elbe still suffers from the 2018-draught, so it will need plenty of rain to keep the water level up, yes, maybe that rain will fall.

And whether there will be enough customers after the corona-crisis, who regain confidence to travel abroad remains to be seen. Also, how much of that feelgood-factor will be left, which was fuelled by high stock markets and a real estate bubble and boosted the travel and cruise industry in the last years.

@notamermaid:thanks, personally I am fine, just havin aaaa lot o' time :-). I hope you are doing well, too.

Living in Dessau, by the Elbe near Wittenberg, in the federal state of Saxony-Anhalt, Germany. Here life froze down to near zero. within a week. Museums, concert halls, theatres, closed since last weekend, Schools closed last monday (March 16th)., since midweek only shops for food, drugstores, newsagents, booksellers, DIY and garden stores allowed to open and church services were stopped. Restaurants closed from today on, only delivery or take-away possible.

Actions to execute the Infection Protection Law in Germany is in the hands of the federal states, not the feral level. While the states are trying to synchronise their actions, they do differ a bit from state to state. Saxony-Anhalt has forbidden all touristic travel including coaches entering or leaving the state. Hotels are not allowed to welcome guests who are travelling as tourists.

From today all gatherings of more than two people are forbidden on public space as well as leaving the house "without urgent reason". Urgent reasons include going to work, medical reasons, buy provisions, visits to close relatives, helping others, walking/ cycling for sport/recreation reasons, walking the dog.

That is not a whole curfew yet, but unseen in peace times. For many people seeing empty shelves in the shops seems to be a flashback to communist times and some are buying whatever they can (interesting though to read the toilet paper thing in the US - same here). All actions here are limited until Easter or earlier, which seems too short. Quarantaine comes from the french quarente (=fourty), took 40 days then ...I hope it wont last that long, but I am absolutely not sure. 

Steinwerder is lousily connected with the public transport. From Steinwerder terminal you have to walk 15 min to Argentinienbrücke to catch a ferry or bus - if they run. Public transport in the harbour area is aimed at commuters, so they run scarcely outside commuting hours and not at all on weekends or public holidays.

The 73 ferry sails to Landungsbrücken, where you can change to U-Bahn or S-Bahn. Alter Elbtunnel also starts near Landungsbrücken. From the south side of the tunnel it would be a 45 to 60 min walk through not too exciting harbour area. There is a bus 156 from the Elbtunnel to Argentinienbrücke, too.

Best refer to the website of public transport https://www.hvv.de/en. Enter "Argentinienbrücke" as starting and "Steinwerder (Alter Elbtunnel)" or "Landungsbrücken" as destination.

You can buy tickets with the bus driver, at vending machines on the ferry or large station, or online, just browse the hvv site. I would recommend the day ticket (or 9am-day ticket, if applicable), which allows you unlimited hop-on-hop-off on all S-Bahn, U-Bahn, busses and harbour ferries (even some local trains) within Hamburg city limits.