gemsm

It really depends on how much you drink each day. If you have at least 7 (up to 15) per day, you will do well with the package. If not, it is not worth it. At least from a financial viewpoint.

 

Steve

My sister and I got it on the Liberty and there was only 1 day out of the 7 that we didn't quite get our money's worth out of it.

2 days I hit the 15 drink max just before bed and I knew what the bar bill was going to be before I left on the cruise so to me it was totally worth it.

I just have a simple experience to tell you about. We bought my parents a balcony on the Carnival Liberty for their 50th wedding anniversary. My sister and I and their best couple friends surprised them the day they boarded and we spent a week celebrating with them. We sailed in February even though their anniversary is not until May because that was the best time for the itinerary we wanted to go on.

A week after we returned from that trip my Dad was diagnosed with Lung Cancer. We all got angry...My sister, my mom and I but every time the sadness got overwhelming we would think about all the great memories we made on that trip and it made the sadness and anger just a little easier to deal with. I know my Dad is much older then your DH and has lived a long full life but he (and us) is just not ready to go yet so he is fighting with everything he has to beat this cancer. And when he does we will go on another cruise to celebrate the joy of life.

So, what the verdict....can you smoke em or not. :) I feel bad for OP. All these motivations....

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums

Actually this has turned into a rather interesting and enlightening discussion. I will do some more reading on the subject as a result of it :) And everyone is being perfectly civil so though the thread was somewhat hijacked its not like the typical smoking threads on these boards.

 

There is currently work going on at the EPA to set the 24 hour exposure limit for PM2.5 to 35μg/m3. About 1/6 the level identified in the study.

Well hell that's never gonna fly...They can't get PM2.5 that low in California.

posted the abstract in response to another post. It is from the NIH pubmed database.

 

Bottom line that they are much better then regular cigarettes. Probably fine outdoors as far as second hand impact. Still enough to negatively impact if used indoors, even in a fully ventilated space. This assumes that the liguid is of high quality.

There were 5 studies on indoor air quality due to e-cigarette vapor. 4 said no problem to the "passive" vapor. One said there was. So whom shall we believe? Therein lies the problem. 5 groups of scientists...4 find no issues 1 finds an issue.

I linked to it, right below their post. It was actually 5 people though. No matter, 5, 9 or 50, e-cigs are far less dangerous than regular ones. For that matter, they're safer than the air we all breath daily.

not the same study as the study you linked to showed no indication of unhealthy air

The point you're missing is that I can't avoid breathing our air. However, if I have a choice of breathing vapor, I choose not to. I also choose to not stand at the rear of a bus if I can avoid that too.

 

Do you seriously not understand the difference between these things and someone exhaling their vapor next to me? I feel like our discussion is over if you don't.

 

I don't care if you play your music loudly. Just be considerate of the people that don't want to hear it.

 

I don't care what religion you practice, just don't ring my doorbell to hand me a pamphlet and ask me to convert

 

I don't care if you smoke cigarettes (although I prefer you didn't because they will kill you) or vape, but please respectful of my desire to not breath your smoke or vapor.

 

It's really not that hard

No I don't understand the difference for the simple fact of whether I am exhaling my vapor within 2 feet of you or 20 feet of you makes no difference because my vapor dissipates before it travels that distance. In addition my vapor contains no more toxins then a normal exhaled breath. Simply by standing in my vicinity whether you choose to or not you are breathing in known carcinogens that I am exhaling just as I am breathing in known carcinogens that you are exhaling. So you are missing the point...You can't avoid breathing AIR

Probably about the same. A recent study showed used 9 people using e-cigs in a fully ventilated room. The monitoring of the air showed that it very quickly reached levels considered to be unhealthy by the EPA. The primary reason was micro particulates. Which are also considered to be a major factor in the development of lung cancer.

 

Now the level was less then with normal cigarettes and also did not contain some of the toxins normally in cigarette smoke (of course you must also keep in mind that the contents are not regulated or listed for many of the e-cig liquids sold and as such can introduce other toxins). E-cigs are probably ok outside, but should still not be used inside.

Which study? I can't find any evidence of this study you are discussing.

Exactly...and my point was you would bother to make the switch because e-sigs are far healthier than regular ones. That was my point, referring to your question of "why would you switch if the rules are the same". Am I missing something?

If I have to vape my e-cig in a cloud of second hand smoke I pretty much lose the health benefits of using the Healthy alternative

You really need to stop with the "red herrings". I wasn't standing in the bus's exhaust. I was 30 feet away from it. Also, I CHOSE to be on the bus. I didn't choose to be engulfed by vapor.

 

Just stop trying to rationalize this with what you think are comparable examples

Huh? I wasn't rationalizing anything...I just find it amusing that everyone that is so uptight about clean air has a cow about harmless vapor but is OK breathing known carcinogens from car/bus/train/plane/burning coal etc... exhaust

Maybe it differs by brand. That was similar to my experience getting off the bus. I felt like I was in a cloud from my waist to the top of my head. It didn't stink or irritate my eyes like cigarette smoke, but still, I didn't want to be standing in it

Sorry I kind of found this slightly amusing as you didn't want to be standing in the cloud of vaper but probably had no issues with the bus exhaust because you are used to it...Even though the bus exhaust is much more harmful to your health ;)

Here is the link. BTW, I also read somewhere that the same stuff is used in some E-cigs !!!

 

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18985512/ns/health-health_care/t/throw-away-chinese-toothpaste-fda-warns/

 

Here is the link for E cigs.

 

http://www.fda.gov/newsevents/newsroom/pressannouncements/ucm173222.htm

That is the case for e-cigarettes once made in China (all brands tested in 2009 by the FDA are no longer on the market). However most e-juices manufactured in the US contain propylene glycol which the FDA approves as generally safe for use. This is one reason why the FDA should regulate the manufacturers of e-liquid and I have yet to meet a vaper that does not agree

I think Princess is totally wrong on this policy. They are just pitting their passengers against each other. We all know that there will be obnixous folks on both sides of this issue and there will probably be confrontations, which would be uncomfortable for those involved as well as those around them.

Considering the latest survey states that 65% of people have no problem with someone using an e-cigarette around them my guess is that Princess doesn't have a whole lot of issues. Once people realize that it isn't a real cigarette most of them could care less. Now that the media misinformation has been put out saying e-cigarette vapor is dangerous (which has not been scientifically proven, as a matter of fact quite the opposite) then people are going to start freaking out. By the way the majority of that misinformation campaign has been spearheaded by big tobacco and big pharmaceuticals. Hopefully the smart folks will look between the lines and figure out why that is

Whatever. My point is people create different amounts of vapor while inhaling. It doesn't matter though.

I wasn't arguing with you...Just pointing out that there are a group of folks who use e-cigs for the sole purpose of creating bigger and bigger vapor clouds. They actually have monetary contests.

I don't think it's over exaggerated I think it also depends on the person. When I was using an ecig I could had very little vapor without choking while my husband had no problem exhaling as much vapor as show in the picture.

The picture is from a newsweek article discussing cloud chasers. These are basically 20 somethings that try to blow the biggest cloud of vapor they can by modifying Personal Vaporizers. These are the people that give e-cigarette vapers a bad name. I think these huge clouds are obnoxiously annoying and find them very rare in the quit smoking with vaping population

It was not successful, but as the dangers of nicotine and smoking became common knowledge, the percentage of smokers dropped a lot.

Funny you should say that...As the e-cigarette increases in popularity, sales of tobacco cigarettes are dropping like a stone. There are no "dangers" of nicotine its dangers of smoking and supposed dangers of 2nd hand smoke that made companies change their tune.

Many cities are currently having knee jerk reactions and treating e-cigarettes like tobacco without any research or logic to back it up. Then you have states like Maryland who after hearing the facts did not pass a bill to treat e-cigarettes like tobacco. The problem isn't the e-cigarette it is the lack of education and the proliferation of misinformation in the media. Well that and the anti-smoking Na zis that are so zealous to breathe clean air that isn't even close to clean

if it doesn't violate my personal space, I'm fine with it. I think 2 feet is a bit close, but *shrug*

 

Similarly, I don't mind if you swing your fists around in the air either, but I do mind if they get close to my nose :)

Was just thinking about how close they pack those deck chairs in...I prefer more than 2 feet myself

NCL is being cautious, not stupid.

 

Enjoy your princess cruises. That's the nice thing about so many cruise lines...choices for everyone

Actually I haven't been on Princess yet so I don't know if I would enjoy it or not. I know I enjoy NCL and Carnival

It's not about having brains. At least you can still smoke on your balcony unlike some other cruise lines that have banned that. I don't understand why people always have to make things bigger than they need to be. They will never in the near future allow people to vape in public areas because other passengers will complain.

I know...Passengers will complain about anything and everything they can complain about...I don't understand that because when I am on a cruise I can't find jack to complain about...I'm not at work, I don't have to cook, I don't have to clean, and I am having fun :)

This cAn be argued til everyone's fingers fall off but the truth is it doesn't matter! Ncl does not allow e cigs anywhere you cannot smoke regular cigs!!

But it does matter because NCL pays attention to these boards and some of us would like them to change that policy. Or we can just cruise Princess whose execs apparently have brains

Obviously you didn't have the sickening sweet smelling scent that the woman that sat next to me had and I thank you for your consideration of others.

Well generally when someone sits next to me with a sickening sweet smelling perfume I get up and move if I don't like it. Of course none of my juice has enough scent that you could smell it even if I blew it in your face - which I would never do - my roommate says there is absolutely no scent.

Of course I don't have an issue with steam off someone's coffee. Don't be ridiculous. What I have an issue with is having a cloud of vapor in my face, especially since there's no regulation of what's in that cloud. Feel free to keep throwing red herring pseudo-examples out there.

Well people who blow a cloud of vapor in your face are inconsiderate...But my sitting on a chair 2 feet away vaping -- The vapor would dissipate long before it got to you. And I do agree that the FDA should regulate the manufacture of e-juice but the majority of US manufactured juice contains 3 ingredients (or 2 if no nicotine) and food grade flavorings that the FDA has regulated as safe for consumption.

Number 4, do a youtube search. "cotton coil build vapor". Cotton is just one of the many types of wicks people are now using. Silica is another.

 

Number 2. They have tested all the ingredients used in ecig juice? Show me the study/studies?

 

Please be sure it includes the following:

Menthol

Cinnamon

Nicotine

Sweeteners

The 100's of food flavoring

 

And don't forget the ingredients we do not know about.

http://www.ecigarette-research.com/‎

All of the following are facts:

 

1) Batteries have exploded do to people building coils and not knowing the battery limitations.

 

2) There are no definitive studies on the long term or short term dangerous of vapor made with PG/VG and nicotine.

 

3) Some juices are made with more ingredients then just PG/VG nicotine. Some even had antifreeze.

 

4) People are using cotton treated with hydrogen peroxide.

 

5) Illicit drugs are now being delivered by vaporizers.

 

 

Sorry you don't see how your actions are not considerate of others.

I agree with 1 and 3...Don't know anything about 4, 5 -- Yep but that is illegal whereas nic juice isn't....However On number 2 - There are definitive studies on the short term dangers of second hand vapor...Just nobody wants to believe the "its harmless" results.

In a perfect Tut world, CC would have a like button.

 

How anyone can sit in a theater/lobby/elevator/eatery/stores and puff on an ecig is beyond me. A little consideration goes a long long way.

That -- No...the local pub while I am having a beer or 3 -- Yes.