markham

Most people know and like real Italian food. The emphasis can be on authenticity and healthy ingredients which is a thing. Just not too healthy: olive oil in/butter out, less fried foods but high quality pulses and vegetables, fruit and fish. That’s a good choice. What do you prefer? Happy and healthy sailing!

Mr L, I concur. The Venture and Pursuit are of luxury standard - from their modern design to furnishings to space ratios to their service offerings of all types. And their restaurants serve 3 meals per day. And there is no TK Grill. Who cares? The budgets can be spent elsewhere. In the classic ships I am guessing TKG are a huge drain. What to do with any cost reductions? How about opening the MDR for 3 meals per day and revamping the old Colonnade concept, adding to their kitchens and maybe adding a new restaurant where TKG is. That would be productive and indicative of positive change/fresh thinking. In the meantime Venture or Pursuit lead Seabourn with their particular type of sophistication and luxury, IMO. Just beautiful and smart. Happy and healthy sailing!

Comfort or cleanliness is not a tradeoff nor is what passes as a deck loungers luxury stuff on Seabourn. It is Carnival or maybe HAL grade. As in as cheap as the market will bear. And when do you see them being scrubbed clean? There are cruise lines that deliver luxury. That is loungers with padded supports on top with a terry or similar cover on them and then toweling on top which are changed between users. They come with more spacing and deck space per passenger, which means less sun loungers hogging and bullying for which at least some Seabourn regulars are renowned and tolerated. It all adds up. Seabourn has settled on a sub-luxury brand level and thereby ceded that former role they held when Ody, Soj and Quest were new and game changers, even with the quirks such as the cheaper loungers. Now the luxury cachet belongs to the newest 4 Silversea and newest 3 Regent ships for those looking for a more sophisticated experience. And their restaurants are open for breakfast and lunch daily. Happy and healthy sailing!

You like the Pursuit. So did we like the Venture. Its design and the obviously hand-selected, proud crew make for a big and welcome change over the mainline Seabourn ships. Especially Encore and Ovation that are too compromised on their facilities. Yes, on every count, maybe starting with the deck space per passenger ratio or maybe it’s the comparison of the MDRs and Colonnades relative sizes. Or anything and everything else. So yeah, enjoy yourself! Most of us have the prospect of a classic ship cruise ahead of us, in our case in Feb on Sojourn. I hope by then there are new bed sheets, room towels, deck chairs and some appointments upgrades to the tired old Colonnade there, and that we do not have to bring our own bar soap and bath salts. Our first quarter 2023 experience on Quest was shocking, and I wish those memories would recede already. Our June cruise on the wonderful Venture went some way towards that goal. Just don’t get greedy. OK, Mr L?! Happy and healthy sailing!

What comparison? For argument’s sake what is disappointing about the Arts Cafe? Surely it is not the Illy coffee made to order fast and efficienty, and the service involving staff delivering your order (incl food choices) to your table. That’s a service unique to Arts Cafe since Seabourn does not staff such a service option. Please explain, Happy and healthy sailing!

The poolside loungers on Seabourn’ classic ships are uncomfortable, narrow, unpadded polyester weave on a frame things, cheap, shabby to see, old and not fit for purpose - assuming you know what the luxury competitors offer. One indicator of how the line’s furnishings have been neglected over the past few years. Those on the Ody class have been there since they were launched. Same for the Encore class which launched in 2017. Ok for some though; some of the most loyal brand followers say so…. Hopefully, and according to my TA, they will be replaced in time. By what remains to be seen. Happy and healthy sailing!

You are extraordinarily patient, IMO. But never mind that… what is wrong with making a thoughtful suggestion/request/demand/whatever if the result is you see for yourself what these 4 ships plus Ray have to offer? You will be outta the heat with a new routine in the cool. It will be good for him. And for you. Happy and healthy sailing!

Please keep your observations coming. They are most welcome, and I hope that staffing issues improve as more training/familiarity with you and their routines kick in, hopefully sooner rather than later. The videos of the ship are so impressive and spacious. No lack of seats or crowding with excessive noise for the number of passengers, I trust, as there are on the Encore class ships. If you try SALT, La Dame and Kaiseki please give your views. I am particularly interested in how they compare to the Muse/Moon/Dawn restaurants. Happy and healthy sailing!

May I add my own 2 cents as an aside. For us it is the space and spacing of tables in the MDRs of Encore and Ovation, and as Mr L highlighted. I mean, really, and this is old news, these 2 DRs are the same size as those on the O ships but there are 150 more punters. The Colonnade and TKG won’t handle this number. Ok, maybe they would and everyone would accept the MDRs as fabulous if these were HAL ships. But they are not branded that way. Which begs the question of who/which cost cutter designed their deck plans anyway? We have 2 weeks on Encore in Aug., 2024, BTBs and so with the chance of the dreaded industry/incentive groups taking over the rhythms of the ship to suit themselves. At our expense. But the itinerary is very good, and so was the net price. About the dining choices we have already planned to have most lunches on shore and for shipboard dinners we will scrounge and scrap to our best advantage. Obviously the MDR is out! But does not have to happen and does not on other ships. Too bad. Happy and healthy sailing!

How does Mr L get into the TKG? He’s a bit modest but he has earned his place. He has worked his way from Provisions to AMD, his newest role, in a mere 12 years. Well done, Mr L. Happy and healthy sailing!

SLSD, Dinner at Earth and Ocean is OK for what it is: 3 choices of appetizers, 3 mains and 3 desserts, but for very very few people, only those who can grab tables. (Wouldn’t it make sense to have a reservations system as TKG does to manage the space better and more fairly?) And you are right: Seabourn has too few dining options, and when those that are offered and either not offered (MDR breakfasts and lunch on many cruises without prior notice on some rational basis) or what is there is a rugby scrum - the Colonnade - well, that is not luxury, no matter what those who defend the brand will chirp. And then there are the 3/3 limit of choices on the MDR lunch menu (as at E&O) when the place is open. This is just not luxury; it’s farcical and you are on vacation. Sooner or later I trust you will try the newer 4 Silversea ships. We recently left Dawn and enjoyed the deep variety of authentic and deep menus at our different choices for our daily meals. And who doesn’t like Italian food at either La Terrazza or Spaccanapoli? Just tell your husband it’s gonna be a treat- like visiting a new sophisticated European truly 5 star hotel. And about those missing soaps on Seabourn, no problem with Bulgari the house brand and many other choices, and also bath salts etc, something luxury hotels have but Seabourn doesn’t. Try it. We did and not know what we are getting and not getting on Seabourn as we wind down our deposits and rolled up past reservations. Happy and healthy sailing!

Mr L, Since we don’t know what any Saudi buyers might have wanted to buy and for how much, we don’t know what CCL might have thought about spending on Seabourn’s future. As far as those of us who have historically enjoyed the product it is rather unfortunate that the classic ship design vision thing was apparently sorta flat just a years ago. Could Rick Meadows, ex-HAL, have upped the game beyond what was delivered ie Encore and Ovation? I guess not or we would have see Seabourn in a far better competitive position today. Sure, there’s always catchup in the industry, but these times are sure much tougher. Happy and healthy sailing!

It’s all down to CCL’s strength and strategic vision going forward. That will drive whatever possibilities there may be to build new classic ships so Seabourn can compete with rivals such as Silversea with its Nova/Ray class triumphs and whatever the even larger ships of Explora offer. Why wasn’t Seabourn doing the “ambition thing” 3-4 years ago designing new ships for delivery now - like Silversea? My answer is that CCL did not know what to do then but more importantly chose not to. Did CCL want to expand the Seabourn brand? Probably not, apart from the expedition side with the terrific Venture and Pursuit. Arguably CCL are best at mass market businesses, make better margins at it, and act that way. Nothing I have seen up to today leads me to think otherwise. And I do have perfect hindsight for my own observations. As for the future? Well, that is CCL’s business. Maybe they will tell us. Happy and healthy sailing!

Mr Luxury, 25%? Well done, matey. Here’s my deal: we have B2Bs on Encore in Aug., 2024 for a terrific Greece/Turkey itinerary. The fear is that there will be infamous incentive groups from industry groups or rowdy Antipodeans at that time of year for one or both segments. So, what to do? Is there an early notification system somewhere indicating the risk of such a fiasco? And related thereto, is there an advance signup for a 25% future cruise discount if the worst outcome prevails? Heck, I might even settle for a 12.5% FCD if I were to cancel now and rebook another cruise. That would be good for me and Seabourn saves something. Happy and healthy sailing!

No, I am saying that Seabourn will allow certain ladies with certain white fluffy dogs to sail and to sail with you. Year on year, as reported here. We have all seen reports about this situation with the dog(s) off leash, being hand held and fed in dining areas, sitting on upholstery without a towel underneath their derrières, and occasionally have accidents of the human toddler type in public areas eg near elevators. No nappies to blame for those whoopsies. I have seen on this and the earlier thread little or no justification for this - from Seabourn - apart from the business that certified dogs are OK. No matter how they may behave or you may find this disagreeable. Maybe some passengers don’t but I bet more than their number do. And I would add that it appears that Hotel Staff choose not to get involved in this mess - apart from cleaning up the aforementioned worst messes. Not even instruct the owner to leash her dog and keep it off the furnishings. This hands-off manner of dealing/actually not dealing with the specific anti-social behavior many complain about re deck chair reserving bullies… Back to dogs and these people with their little white dogs, maybe they are better connected with the company than others? Who knows.

Has Seabourn gone to the dogs? I have asked before on this forum and all I got was attitude from passengers and nothing via those passengers from Seabourn. And if this fluffy dog cruising thing privilege - which everyone is complaining about - is now available to everyone, so like why is this a bad thing? Just because these Seabourn “valued guests” thought of it before you and they’re cashing in on your patience? Pulleeeez! Get over it. Seabourn apparently has. Now, back to my question… Just sayin’ Happy and healthy sailing!

Jimmycruiser, Have you seen the video presentation of Silver Nova? If not, please do so. It’s on the Silversea site. Then you too may be as excited as I am by the concept. IMO it is a game changer for many/most people who are looking for excellence in design and a special treat. Happy and healthy sailing!

I don’t know enough about how these decisions/judgments are made but I have to believe that Silversea gets high marks for 2 reasons: Firstly, despite having a set of older ships which in all likelihood suit many of Silversea’s veteran customers, it is the verve and upgraded facilities deriving from the Muse, Moon, Dawn, and now Endeavour and Nova and soon Ray that make people excited. Incredible options in the layouts and food for starters; and Secondly, how Seabourn has drifted and not for the best. The classic ships have suffered over the past few years so many cutbacks that it is not necessarily considered “luxury”. This needs to be - and apparently is- being addressed by the new president. And, apart from the newly launched expedition ship Pursuit and year old Venture, Seabourn ships are getting old and reveal their design limitations. No new classic ships to get excited about. BTW, the Regent story is more like that of Silversea. Reportedly they have impressive and new ships that sustain the brand. And they can. Why not check out their websites to see. Happy and healthy sailing!

On our Dawn cruise there was no SALT charge unless you count the price of the optional excursion cooking class at a renowned restaurant marketed as an extension of the SALT concept. This is available on many but not all Silversea itineraries. As far as a SS salesperson using the “all inclusive” term too liberally you should not be surprised really. Maybe they have not been a cruise ship passenger, a cruise passenger on the “all inclusive” lines and/or know about all the nickel and diming of mass market lines. I hasten to add that a cruise specialists TA with any market reputation would hardly say such potentially misleading and lazy remarks. Too much would be at stake in their line of business. Happy and healthy sailing!

adoctor, Thanks for the news on the officers and crew! Captain Stig and HD Stefan are friends. I trust you will enjoy the Pursuit as much as we did the Venture in June. We visited the Silver Endeavour for an afternoon just before our Venture cruise, and I can say that in most categories the physical layout, especially the expansive outdoor spaces and people/access/facilities flow overall, the Venture is far superior. They are now our favorite Seabourn ships, and we eagerly await the release of more itineraries. Have you heard about a near term release date? We hear early September. Happy and healthy sailing!

Here’s another tidbit that gives daily chuckles for the discerning. I mention it because it is an age old issue, and one that obviously no one at Seabourn cares to correct. The deal is that you will find spelling and usage mistakes almost daily in the printed MDR dinner menus. Occasionally too in the MDR lunchtime menus (on the few days when it is open), and randomly on the labels of the buffet items at the Colonnade. And about the Colonnade sometimes what’s on the label is not what’s on offer. But I digress. The problem, it seems, is that the chef’s are entirely in charge of what the menus say and no one cares enough to edit them at all. Assuming the F&B Mgr or the HD speak English and have a passing familiarity with French cuisine, they could manage the mess. Oh, and please don’t tell me that Seattle is in charge. They obviously are not. I have not seen truffle, variations of soufflé, Parma without the ham, Caesar etc and other gaffes on other luxury lines, which incidentally have deep menus in their various restaurants specializing in French, Italian, Japanese and other cuisines. With Seabourn’s menus, including the infamous “Comfort Food” which is a serial Colonnade lunch theme you would expect the job to be easier. Happy and healthy sailing!

We can easily deduce that Seabourn is not really a “full service luxury cruise line”. What does this imply? Such a concept would include sit down full table service meals in restaurants, in line with what the line says it offers. In calm uncrowded settings. Those lines’ ships, roughly the same size as Seabourn’s Classic ships of 450-600 passengers manage it very well. Many people do not like buffets, and even in a “buffet” lunch restaurant within a real luxury cruise ship there really should be a deeper and more sophisticated menu with table service than the Colonnade’s burger, hot dog, minute steak, salmon selection card offers. And table cloths. Why? That’s the market in this segment, and no, no one should be obliged to use serving spoons that score of other passengers have used. Who knows if they washed their hands before joining the queue and after tucking into their first course before heading back for another round? That IS a thing. And the crew cannot compel them to do so, can they? Simple as that. And finally, no one should have to guess if the HD or anyone else will open the MDR in Seabourn’s case for breakfasts and lunches on port days and sea days. Nor can you vote on it. So perhaps Seabourn is really “something else”. You get what you pay for. Happy and healthy sailing!

Vineyard View, Yours in a very kind thought! We are happy on Dawn and her 2 sisters. They outstrip the other SS ships by far… Our next Seabourn cruise is in February, 2024, part of its WC. We certainly hope and trust that Natalya Leahy will deliver on her promise to restore the old touches and elevate the food quality. In the meantime this oyster story is telling, and I will be looking to CC posters to report what gets rolled out. If anyone can make this happen it is she! Happy and healthy sailing!

The occasional rush and crowding at the MDR and Colonnade and elsewhere is all understandable. And it also follows that the kitchen and wait staff will suffer stress. Only at the TKG and Ad hoc Colonnade dinners are reservations required and they are needed indeed. We are on Silver Muse now and it differs in very many ways from the Seabourn product. For one there are more restaurants, deeper themed menus, and IMO higher quality ingredients and more sophisticated preparations, especially in the large Atlantide and SALT and largish La Terrazza restaurants. Only La Terrazza, the Grill, Silver Note and surcharge La Dame and Kaiseki dinner restaurants require reservations for precisely this reason: managing everyone’s expectations and performance. If you have been frustrated by the current booking system for the TKG you will be relieved that the systems work well on MySilversea.com and/or via your butler where you can book your dining time slots. Happy and healthy sailing!

After 1000 days on Seabourn and enough inside understanding earned after 20+ years starting with Pride and Spirit (not to mention the maidens of Ody and Enc) we think we are entitled to share our disappointment with the brand. And our enthusiasm about Silversea’s improved product in the Muse, Moon and Dawn. Trauma and distress? Hardly. But not as much enjoyment and value - to us. Sad but true. One lesson you might learn in life: your world is not always black and white, is it. There’s nuance, something we can articulate. Happy and healthy sailing!