markham

Mr L, I have addressed the passenger:space ratio matter on the Enc class ships. In other posts I have moaned about many of the shallow and cheap menus on SB - apart from the TKG offering which is under his own control. A good example of mediocrity is the themed Japanese, Thai etc dinners at Colonnade that wouldn’t fool a real world traveler. Another is that there’s generally no breakfast or lunch in the Restaurant. Then there have been all the petty cutbacks at SB which after many months are supposedly being addressed, the awful website tech, cheap unpadded narrow sun loungers, compromised cruises eg the recent Venture cruises sold as expedition when no expedition elements were delivered. And the inconsistencies: Ody is reportedly fabulous now but Enc (or is it Ovation) is anything but. And heck, you cannot even get a pizza made… This is no way to sell “luxury” cruises. My definition of luxury revolves around consistency. SS does this, probably better on their 4 larger ships than the older ones eg Whisper and Cloud which their president has announced are being retired anyway. While SB passengers rightly obsess pre-departure who the capt, HD, F&B and CD are - hoping for the more resourceful ones relative to ones they already know - no one need care on SS. We are on Dawn now, know many of the rank and file crew and some senior ones, but the delivery is consistent vs our past 5 SS cruises on the 3 sisters. Now about your question, I view SB ships as more “fun” and less formal. But they have to be, don’t they, if that is what people have accepted/want/adjusted to. SS ships are more 5 star hotel-like. Quality in everything they do comes first. No excuses. I will take the superior quality/depth/choice of food in the various outlets, top bed linens, open and long track, 40% longer pool, all that deck and interior space, predictability of systems, stable routines and (yes) pizza- at least 12 types. And of course make friends on board along the way. No need for a “retreat”. No trouble swimming around the drinkers standing about (the SS pools are too deep for starters), no sun lounge hogs, and no gaming to squeeze in a meal at TKG since the food here is so much authentic and sophisticated anyway. I am sorry that Seabourn has not delivered new product for several years with enlightened management. The bean counters are to blame for so many things. I would just love to see new SB classic ship designs being launched to restore the brand as an add to the competitive market. It can happen- Venture and Pursuit are top on class from what I have seen… Anyway, people owe it to themselves to scan the horizon for alternatives - of which there are plenty now! All that said, and like I said, we are watching who will lead the upcoming Soj WC. Will we be lucky? What about the provisioning? I hope for the best since we have a long journey there soon and want a happy ship. Happy and healthy sailing!

Mr L, If everyone knew what you do and acted on it, they would understand that Enc and Ovation are space/luxury compromise products. But they don’t and most won’t it seems. We moved on when we figured out that Seabourn was no longer competitive with the SS newer ships. Presently on Dawn, we will not look back. It’s the design, execution and satisfaction “luxury thing” that Seabourn has failed to deliver for too long. Maybe the ethos of Enc and Ovation is sufficient evidence of some fool ‘em strategy- stack ‘em high but sell ‘em at premium prices if possible. That does not seem to be working much anymore… And Seabourn has no plan to build new ships with the culture, space and amenities we enjoy on Dawn. Yes, we have 3 more Soj, Enc and Ovation cruises booked but that is all. We also have one Venture cruise but that product is a pedigree/top offering in the market IMO whereas the classic Seabourn product is certainly not. Just look at the latest industry awards. Seabourn has lost ground noticeably. For us, that is all there is to the current state of play. Happy and healthy sailing!

Relative to Ody, Soj and Quest the Enc and Ovation feel crowded just because they are! The have less space per passenger anywhere you look - except the TKG, Obs Bar and Colonnade. Can’t get into the MDR, a seat in the Club or Grand Salon, or a swim in the pool? These places are the same size on the 3 sisters which have 150 fewer passengers. Now you know. These 2 ships compromise passenger space. Seabourn committed an own goal re luxury provision when these 2 ships were built. Simple as that. And now you know why some will pay up at the “Retreat” for the space on Enc and Ovation. Kinda like mass market hotels with pools and Carnival ships, seems to me. Happy and healthy sailing!

How many more photos do you intend to post this year? Happy and healthy sailing!

What the review tells me is that Seabourn Ovation has a ways to go in the quality/competitive universe. Getting quality room service food on time, receiving accurate information and generous service from the Square, and having access to an MDR for all meals with adequately spaced tables are fundamental to a real luxury cruise experience, and hardly too much for us to expect! (I hardly believe I have to make this point!) And I hasten to add that I respect and appreciate the poster’s effort to make the lapses clear with an appropriate amount of context. So… thank you. Happy and healthy sailing!

Airlines, car rental agencies and hotels don’t either and they have more customers/products/experience with managing margins than cruise lines do. That’s just the way it is. Happy and healthy sailing!

How to respond to this question? I like the new Silversea ships, the vibe, and especially the more varied, deep and sophisticated menus, to say nothing of more consistent high quality service that happens to be more staid. And these ships have facilities that for me put Seabourn’s older and or more crowded per square meter ships in the shade eg the pool and track on the Silversea beauties. The idea is true luxury, calm and relaxation. Pres Barbara Muckermann there has the momentum and the muscle of Royal Caribbean. Ask yourself if you can say the same re Carnival and Seabourn. About the passengers, I don’t mind the calm and restrained. I dislike, in contrast, the antics of some on Seabourn ships that I thankfully have never seen on Silversea: gaming to add bookings to TKG as if it was the last word/their last meal, the penny pinching, simplicity, repetition and inconsistency of MDR/Colonnade menus and lack of alternative restaurants, haphazard staffing levels and training, and the abandonment of many cabin amenities. And then there is the ethos of the Holiday Inn type I attach to The Retreat. Which suggests the rest of the ship is something you need to pay to escape. This is all tiresome at these prices. I guess I have moved on. That is the best answer I can offer right now. My judgment is Silversea offers smoother sailing. Happy and healthy sailing!

Yes, friends, nostalgia, particular itineraries and things such as non-refundable deposits, Club free day awards and good deals are the reasons for returning to the classic ships. Maybe Natalya - and it’s her energy alone at the healm from what I have seen - really can up the game that Seabourn plays? We will see in time… BTW, we also return for Venture which is a class of its own, IMO. Happy and healthy sailing!

Disappointed in Quest’s provisioning and cuisine? I get it, I have been there and won’t get over it. So disappointing, and there was no excuse for any of it! What to do? Reduce your cognitive dissonance asap… Book and sail another luxury cruise line such as Silversea’s newest classic ships, Muse, Moon, Dawn and Nova, or the yet-to-sail Ray. You will be glad you moved on. Happy and healthy sailing!

Mayflower1, Another way of looking at this is that our world of today is inevitably different than yesterday, whether it is last month, year, or that first, second or third cruise- on any line. About Silversea specifically, they lead the quality luxury cruising segment now, IMO, across the board, and they have somehow done well enough plus to avoid the depressing lapses in so many basic we experiencec at Seabourn early this year. We just cannot reconcile them with the Seabourn of 3 years ago, much less 5, 10 or 15 years ago. I recall when the Odyssey, Sojourn and Quest were brought out in the 2010-3 era they were far superior for our tastes than Whisper- better facilities and more spacious generally, and of course new (which is better than tired or just homely), all IMO. Then Muse, Moon and Dawn emerged with better differentiated dining options (albeit with an obviously smaller entertainment budget than a Seabourn ship eg no sailaway parties with a live band and a bit of dancing with poolside hors d’œuvres etc), and we were conflicted. We had had great experiences on both lines! Now we are so disappointed in Seabourn and their now “old style” ships we have most of our future classic cruises on Dawn and Nova. (Seabourn gets our bookings on their wonderful expedition ships Venture and Pursuit.) The bottom line is we have high expectations, are forward looking but practical and fair, but always it’s the consistency thing that counts. Barbara Muckermann explains that Royal Caribbean is a supportive partner. I have never heard anyone at Seabourn claim the same from Carnival. So much for my 2 cents. Happy and healthy sailing!

Yes, I concur. That shlubbs are shlubbs, always were and always will be. And in the spirit of goodwill, I hasten to add that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there is someone for everyone. Happy and healthy sailing!

SLSD, I have indeed met Mr SLSD and never did it cross my mind to consider his dress sense. He is -or was then- slim and tall, and he whatever he wore was good daytime wear. I expect you would have it no other way! The offenders who come to mind in past years (especially the Antarctic cruise this year on Quest) were somethin’ else. The guy with the open toed sandals he wore all the time on board with the teal painted toe nails, ancient, droopy and baggy jeans and chinos and flannel shirts, and his ample wife in tee shirts with no foundations set the standard for no standards. Maybe they brought nothing with them and live out of a single wheelie or backpack? Who knows, who cares. So what to make of that? Maybe nothing if he were the only one. But it is safe to say that for some of the mix the days of casual elegance I remember from Seabourn ships is largely gone with the new mix. And yes, that would include the characters hollering across the Observation Bar at one another, as if they were in Senor Frogs during frat house Easter Spring break. You’ve seen them too, for sure. Yep…. I have moved on. The convergence of nostalgia for ole Seabourn and my own age/disposition makes the prospect of encountering these cartoon characters on Seabourn something to avoid. I guess it’s now “Their Moment”, as the latest bumph says. But for my money and time it’s just no longer gonna be my moment. Happy and healthy sailing!

For those who were unhappy with the Muse Atlantide perhaps the Atlantide chef was sub-par. That can happen but is regrettable. We have sailed on a Dawn a few times since our pre-Covid Muse foray and have been very happy. At least Silversea makes an effort with their menu depth and more comprehensive and numerous dining room service staff. Seabourn makes no such menu depth or service attentives effort. Each Silversea ship of roughly the same size as Seabourn ships will have more senior chefs eg at the Silversea Atlantide, SALT and La Terrazza restaurants. Seabourn will have a single executive ship. About the Cloud this dinosaur is a nonstarter. It is uncompetitive on virtually all counts vs Venture. Its day passed by many years ago even though it was in the expedition business with interesting itineraries well before someone at Seabourn got religion. Over and done for us despite its usually cheaper pricing. The trade off of quality for price escapes us. Happy and healthy sailing!

What Atlantide offers and Seabourn MDRs don’t is a deep menu, sophisticated presentation and lots of service staff. Seabourn is (ahem) tight on all these counts. Without TKG a drain on the budgets we can hope the MDR will improve. The most important things are that Seabourn improves its game and does so fast. Why? They don’t have time to faff about… look at today’s post about the LA to Auckland 32 day cruise on Odyssey. With the ship at 100 below its capacity and more crew than passengers, this cruise cannot be making money. i hope I am wrong about the likely prospects. Happy and healthy sailing!

Frantic, I believe that our Quest Grand Voyage around South America this year was the nadir/pits/suspension wrecking pot hole of current and past Seabourn cruises. In my experience at least. Sojourn on its world cruise had better satisfaction levels- from what on saw when communicating with friends there. And they didn’t lose Internet for 9 days, and if they had their captain would have owned up to it daily until it was corrected. But I digress… I fervently hope that our month on Sojourn’s 2023 world cruise will serve to restore my positivity! Happy and healthy sailing!

I never understood the hype over the TKG, much less the gaming by passengers to get in there with their own reservations and also through tables of 4 booked by friends as often as possible. Is/was the Colonnade themed evenings eg Japanese, Spanish etc so tiresome and the MDR so limited, boring, disappointing and less well managed by their waitstaff than what TKG delivered? I am afraid I know well enough the answers to these questions given the craziness that has long gripped TKG devotees, and I certainly get it. So… rather than expect too much from Solis this early, I would hope that Seabourn gets the message that their Colonnade and MDR dinners need the real upgrades. A cruise or 2 on Silversea’s and Regent’s newer ships will show the way. Their “main” restaurants put those of Seabourn in the shade. How could this be facilitated? It’s through the reallocation of resources. TKG has starved the beast - our legitimate expectations for a more sophisticated MDR and a more fresh, flavourful and authentic Colonnade local dishes experience - to take hold. More balanced budgeting away from the TKG franchise and maybe a shakeup of the catering ranks in Seattle etc could work wonders. Just sayin’ Happy and healthy sailing!

Mr L, We are thinking of you in these troubled times. It was ever thus. Remember that hope springs eternal for the believer. You know what to do. I am sure of it. May I recommend that when you are ready to do so you venture back downstairs to the MDR for a fresh try? You may find that with a redistribution of budgets you will encounter a few new recipes to enjoy. Happy and healthy sailing!

Fine with me. Being tied to a third party brand which drew extraordinary resources away from the general provisioning budget was a mistake that now is being resolved. Good for Natalya, sayonara Meadows. And now maybe the large aft area behind the TKGs on Encore and Ovation can be used for something, you know, for the passengers. How ‘bout that? Then there’s the rumor that the meister of TKG had vetoed its use while he was running the show. Smart move. Happy and healthy sailing!

Not to throw cold water on the Seabourn “serene” idea … but be prepared… some of your fellow passengers may choose to yap in your vicinity as if they own the place and you don’t. Nothing serene about that circumstance and for me that makes a future visit unlikely. It would appear that such passengers’ ego quotient is getting bigger as I become more discerning. Why can’t these people chat in some lounge, anyway… Happy and healthy sailing!

I have a couple of opinions about Mr L and they are grounded in my personal experience in dealing with him and his manner. And I note that we even have friends in common, odd as that may appear. Nonetheless, he is good value and a good sport, despite everything else. May he long continue to inform and amuse! Happy and healthy sailing!

I recommend leaving a note on all your neighbors’ door mail holders saying “Please close your suite door softly”. You don’t even have to leave your name or sign it. Once I caught a perpetual door slammer leaving her suite opposite mine and I asked her to close the door softly. Her answer was “if Seabourn wants us to close the door softly they can install better equipment” which of course makes no sense and sounds childish. Anyway, she and her husband subsequently were more diligent. Happy and healthy sailing!

Anything? I suspected as much. No wonder… Happy and healthy sailing!

Lincslady Very good point. Happy and healthy sailing!

If true, perfetta! Then Seabourn can redeploy its budgets favor the line’s own facilities ie not his brand, and maybe slot in a specialty resto. My vote is Italian. Immédiatement. Happy and healthy sailing!

No reservations? Disappearing reservations? No access to reservations system? Basta! What type of service does Seabourn offer, and for how many months have they failed to deliver on its website offerings? It is amazing how patient the faithful are. But that’s the faith business. Happy and healthy sailing!