markham

Ouch! I can understand your situation. It is live and learn with these companies and I hope we never find ourselves in such a position. Who needs such degrading treatment? I just hope it never happens again or to us. Happy and healthy sailing!

All our current bookings on Silversea are made onboard where the sales specialist lays out the difference between door to door and port to port. Their system to illustrate on screen and print what is included is terrific in that it automatically adds in the various discounts we are entitled to eg after 100 days, back to back and sometimes Venetian cruise discounts. Then we pay the deposit and our TA takes over. They give a substantial discount as well on their subsequent invoice. We simply go on price if we choose door to door which has included airport transfers and air. Our air has been in business class at a fraction of what we could ever find ourselves. (This probably has to do with the fact we book way in advance and get the best air priced allocations). But we have also agreed with the sales specialist on door to door, to skip the flights, and give us an air credit but not the free transfers. The idea is to offer choices. In our case we have never had a Silversea hotel included but we will in 2 upcoming cruises: April, 2024 Japan to Vancouver on Nova and January 2026 on Dawn from Ft Laud to Auckland. Those cruises include all transfers, business class air and one precruise hotel night, and were incredibly well priced, probably because they were booked as soon as they were announced. The former was booked on board but the latter was a pre-sale flash for Venetian members. The air packages are outstanding for us in London; we do not know how Silversea allocates costs but it must be a chunk out of our total cruise fare. If I were you I would explore the options with an experienced TA, get a cruise under your belt, and onboard review further itineraries’ options. We were very impressed with the fluidity and transparency available. Seabourn simply does not have the systems and options for such tools. No matter what you think of Seabourn’s product you owe it to yourself to try its competition. The Muse, Moon and Dawn and the newest but larger ship Nova and Ray, and the type of luxury they deliver put Silversea in another league, IMO. Happy and healthy sailing!

That is true but that’s not the big picture. Hiow so? Silversea gives 5% off their fares to those who have 100 sailed days and another 5% after you sail 250. Plus those particular Venetian sailings that include reduced fares. So book early on board Silversea ships (another discount) for the best fares knowing you are all set. Unlike Seabourn Silversea does not need to offer sales on empty cabins close to sailing date. They have stability and confidence through a pricing model/quality product that consistently has worked for me. And enjoy that free week on top of those incentives. I think it comes after 350 days but I can handle that. What they do overall is kinda like icing on the 5* cake. Happy and healthy sailing!

Is that so? Why not add a bit of wisdom of your own to the forum and report back with your research. Happy and healthy sailing!

If it is true that the spa concession pays little or no direct compensation to these hopeful and eager young employees and all they earn is tips that is disgraceful. We are not living in the Middle Ages accepting the plague as one of those scourges that comes and goes. Everyone in employment at a touted luxury line is entitled to a minimum wage. Period. Happy and healthy sailing!

Mauzac, Thanks for the good wishes! We have a Sojourn cruise in February lasting 33 days starting 20 Feb (is that 62 days away?). I hope to see lots and lots of improvements vs the early 2023 letdown on Quest. We were truly shell-shocked by it. And we go back a long way. OTOH our June Venture trip was a joy, and I would encourage everyone to experience that ship design, simplicity with luxury and happy crew environment. I am now waiting to hear who the Capt, HD, CD and F&B are on Sojourn for our WC sector. We know well that on Seabourn specifically the quality of these officers in terms of my expectations for service delivery is supremely important. This is not the case with other lines and how their ships operate, we have observed; often I barely know who they are. For example, I would like to know what “enhanced menus” we have been hearing about the chefs testing for months now will be offered in the MDR and hopefully the Colonnade. And what’s new and better in Earth and Ocean where the format of smoky chicken salad starter and the same week rotating same old menu has gotten boring. It’s pretty much the one introduced when the concept was rolled out years ago. All that said, and since this will mainly be a warm and good weather cruise, I would not be disappointed if they did not open the MDR for breakfast and lunch. Like you, I prefer eating outside at the Colonnade or poolside if there is space. I’ll let you know. Happy and healthy sailing!

Times have moved on and other lines have moved up. This year we graduated to Silversea as our primary choice for cruises. It is the combination of 2 things that do it: they get all the basics right (track, longer pool, several differentiated restaurants with real menus, plenty of padded loungers with attentive drinks service coming to you, and far more space per passenger) on their 4 classic newer ships and there are many attractive pricing incentives when you book on-board. Plus more when you reach 100 days (laundry which is same day, not the next/up to 2 days on Seabourn), go on Venetian- named cruises, and after 250 days an additional 5%. Also, the milestone awards of free weeks. Yes, excursions are included which is fine for those who want to take them. If I don’t I am assured of a quiet ship whose facilities I can enjoy for a few hours around my choice to walk in town or whatever. At mid-day the pool and track on their own are inviting enough to keep me in the ship, and then there are the Patio, Spaccanapoli and La Terrazza outdoor seating restaurants and the Atlantide (near-MDR) and Kaiseki Japanese to choose from. In the evenings there are in addition the SALT (local cuisine), Silver Note (jazz) and upcharge La Dame (surcharge) restaurants. The complimentary wines are all of an higher standard and there (again) is more choice/ less need to buy premium wine. And lots of space with all those choices! Now arguably you get a higher standard of luxury, and loyal cruisers there know what that means. Its vibe is consistently calm. No need to game each other over “retreats”, TKG reservations, nor guess what happens with the next round of long-awaited menu “enhancements” around ship staff you come and go. Nor do they need to offer fire sales all the time to keep us biting; we would worry anyway about what type of cruise those low fares can pay for when we know that we can rest assured of quality at a level we know well elsewhere. We find that they never cut out so much as Seabourn did before and during Covid, and so all the standards are there. Seabourn has yet to recover and still haven’t. Eg Seabourn still does not say one way or another if they will restore the old Club Concierge (precruise cabin amenities) service… Similarly, the only time a true 5* hotel does that unpredictable and repetitive public price discounting is when they are renovating, and only if they think they can still deliver the luxury experience and original standards without upsetting loyal guests with a degraded experience. Maybe it would be easier to accept that Seabourn is now a notch below. Maybe it is on the upswing? It’s hard to know. This year’s quality ratings of the top lines in each category tell part of this story. i hasten to add that the Venture and Pursuit are top of league. It’s the combination of ship design, old Seabourn “can-do” mentality on board and the focused purpose these ships deliver so well! They are honest and concise products which set them apart in the line and the industry. Eg the idea of a “retreat” there is absurd. That’s my take FWIW, Happy and healthy sailing!

Ok, how about that glass of chilled rose on an aft deck served with a plated meal ordered from a deep menu and/or a buffet presented with at least triple all the choices offered at the Seabourn Colonnade- from appetizers to mains to cold meats and fish to salads to soups to breads to vegetables to desserts and to cheeses? Ditto poolside, now that I think of it. You can get that on certain luxury lines whose names I won’t repeat. Included in the fare and with your all friends. It’s not a fair and even match. “Different strokes for different folks” comes to mind. Happy and healthy sailing!

Uh huh. That may work for you up there in your “Retreat” surcharged nest but whaddabout the poor punters sputtering in the Colonnade queuing up to grab the cafeteria food with spoons used by so many others that you’d wanna bring your own and then hunt down a table just to sit somewhere? Not to ignore the the MDR. but really…. As we all know, it’s seldom open for lunch but when it is it has just 3 starters and 3 main courses to consider. Imagine that in a downtown restaurant mirroring a cafeteria across the street! And those 6 items are plated versions of what’s served in the Colonnade buffet anyway. Just don’t expect choice, ok? And padded sun loungers, you say? Kinda like what Silversea and Regent offers ALL passengers poolside. So… I guess the “Retreat” IS the luxury that Seabourn touts, isn’t it? And it’s for whom- 18 or 20 of those 600 passengers? IMO that’s ridiculous. Happy and healthy sailing!

I checked our 4 Aug cruise on Encore and see no changes on the Seabourn site. What particular cruises have been changed? What itineraries do you expect will be changed? Happy and healthy sailing!

Sorry to offend you. But think this through… I have a choice and so do you. I choose not to bother with Carnival cruises, and whether of not “millions do” makes no difference to me. As you may know from my first post on this thread, CCL’s AR does not herd people to use a third party vendor which also seems to pose issues re data gathering. I can choose not to be part of that. Ok? Further, Seabourn has always claimed to be a luxury line and that means paying attention to its passengers in a careful way. They might as well know that what may be acceptable for the many simply may not fly with everyone who pays Seabourn prices. That’s how business is done re customer care and marketing. That is my point of view. Ok? Happy and healthy sailing!

If branding is important what about “Homer Burgers”? I make my case in Feb. when we join Sojourn. Just sayin’… Watch this space. Happy and healthy sailing!

Who goes on Carnival cruises anyway. If Seabourn starts treating us like Carnival cruisers in this manner that would expedite my use of the exit ramp. Happy and healthy sailing!

Adding more cabins up there at some big expense sounds foolish to me. But the HAL managers might just be moving the brand into HAL anyway by making these open deck starved ships even more so. If so it’s the larger ship “pack ‘em high and sell ‘em cheap” game that’s in their DNA. The “Retreat” installation on Encore and Ovation was/is foolish too but then those punters who claim to benefit from its services might differ. But can’t we all agree that luxury means more and not less space per passenger, and provision of deck space for sports eg putting and shuffle board for all passengers? Or maybe the bean counters remain fully in charge in terms of their way of doing things: trying to increase revenues at all costs. Apparently they have cut so much already and they see the damage such cuts have made to revenues. If they’re in a pickle now it’s because the consequences show in a poorer revenue picture. And this is all they can come up with to increase it. Good luck to them. Happy and healthy sailing!

Just hold on! Look at carnivalcorp.com for the guidance. It is under Shareholder Information. We used it 2 months ago for our Cunard cruise and it worked. We will not use some data mining - suspect third party app for a routine matter such as this. Just ridiculous, and probably illegal in many jurisdictions, no matter what you say Carnival US may believe and you choose to believe. For our next Seabourn cruise of Feb we will continue to use the HAL email address we have used for many years to send a copy of the brokerage statement showing the CCL holding and our cruise booking number to get the $250. Seabourn/HAL have more important issues to mess with than create such nonsense. Happy and healthy sailing!

Well put. Happy and healthy sailing!

The “Retreat”? I am with Mr L on this concept which is a mass market hotel concept foisted on these 2 overcrowded ships to appeal who have either figured out the game and/or think that this is good value and in somehow consistent with the all inclusive luxury concept (which I believe it is not). Too bad, too, that the meager outdoor deck space per passenger is given over to this revenue center. But hey… All this value calculating, competing, executing vouchers 2:1 here and there, and avoiding hoi polloi is too much for me to contemplate before and on “Retreat” sign-up day/embarkation day for a vacation. There are undoubtedly better and “calmer” luxury lines out there without doubt, and they have earned their competitive positions at Seabourn expense. Now if Seabourn would reduce some passenger numbers to create a more spacious deck environment and introduce wider, padded loungers near the pool, and a more attentive drinks service there, well, the space usurped by the “Retreat” could be shared for deck sports. Like it is on the Ody class ships and the original Seabourn Legend, Spirit and Pride. But that was then, and now is now…. And the cruises’ pricing might even be able to rise to reflect the value that everyone gets. But oh no. These days it’s all about discounting and bartering with this current product, and the market has spoken. OTOH, maybe 2024 will be different? Happy and healthy sailing!

… as it is written, “in the world of Homer Simpson, Homer Simpson is king”.* *not attributable Happy and healthy sailing!

So much for analyzing why Seabourn no longer ranks as high as they did years ago in the luxury cruise industry segment. A look at the SB site shows no top awards last year and maybe that’s a driver, alongside a lot of smart competitors, for their slippage and all that discounting. Just today emails show extensions to Black Friday, as an example. And there was much much less criticism a few years ago before the penny pinching became institutionalized. All the same, maybe there will be a turnaround in 2024 in the food service department with Solis in, TK out, and maybe even luxury style MDR offerings 3 times a day. We can hope so. Honesty up and down the line would be a good start. Happy and healthy sailing!

“If you build it they will come”. I am not concerned with Seabourn’s excuses re usage as to why they don’t bother with breakfast and lunch service in the MDR. And given that all they do offer is the cafeteria Colonnade or poolside then. Oh, and Sushi on 2/5 ships at lunchtime. We all know other true luxury lines. For fun try comparing the extensive lunch menus of the 5 restaurants on Silver Dawn or the Queens or Princess Grill restaurants of QM2 to those of the Seabourn classic ships. And let’s be honest: who wants to go to an occasionally-open Seabourn MDR lunch with only 3 appetizer courses and 3 main courses? That’s it! The fact of the matter is that Seabourn did not build in the luxury concept that luxury lines embrace and they don’t want to do so - or presumably you would be getting it by now. Too bad, then. A business school analysis would reveal all, and I’d bet a Seabourn “comfort food” themed Colonnade lunch buffet (which, believe it or not is a thing) that it’s about food budgets, provisioning organization, ships’ staffing levels and storage/prep capacities. How about a turnaround in 2024? Happy and healthy sailing!

It’s called entertainment. And he gets results with the execution of failing restaurants. That is why he is popular. Mr L knows this, and his tongue in cheek suggestion may not be such a bad idea after all. BTW, has anyone learned what changes will be enacted, if any, to improve the quality and sophistication of food quality, ambience and service levels in the Colonnade? What about the MDR? And establishing standards of consistency across all 5 of the current classic ships so that we know what we are getting before we board? Isn’t that why Michael Sandoval and other “ideas guys” hop from ship to ship. It cannot only be to pep up, train and/or replace kitchen staff when things go pear-shaped, right? Presumably the savings from the elimination of the TKG and all that will show a payoff in 2024? If not, what about 2025? Happy and healthy sailing!

Isn’t he famous for his temper but also for results? Sounds good to me since a good shakeup at the top of Seabourn is what’s most likely needed. So we get somewhere in the coming year, starting with my Feb, 2024 Soj cruise. And please note I am not talking about holding out for 2025. Ok? OK! I can’t wait to see his efforts paying off. Old Gord hiring and firing and dishing up the goods! Happy and healthy sailing!

The idea of specialists and head office helpers helicoptering in for a week on occasion and planning and smiling all the time for the faithful is very old news. When will there be verifiable tangible results- as in menus and positive customer feedback across the classic ships? i think we have been exceedingly patient but there are limits, right? What about your/my upcoming cruises? Happy and healthy sailing!

Mr L, We will join Soj in Feb after 17 days on QM2 from Cape Town to Freemantle. That will be a study in contrasts, and we know what to expect from the old girl. In the Grills things such as your suite and fixed dining table have to be “just so”. I say that because there is fixed DR seating, and food and traditional service are a big part of the QM2 experience overall. What continues to amaze me after 450 plus days since QE2 times is the rigidity of policy and lack of benefits for the top tier of loyal sailors. The contrast with SB and SS is laughable-sad. You will get 20% off laundry after any OBC is used up and no free drinks, while the drinks package must be for the entire cruise at roughly $80/day/pp. And then there are costs for internet. This is a cruise for us mainly and it is part of a WC which people apparently choose for the ship, not so much for the very few ports where it stops. It is staid and predictable but hardly what we would call “good value” on the basis of fare paid, to us at least. Joining Soj with its spontaneity will be a welcome contrast, and we know what to expect more or less. But the excitement can be there provided the senior officers are experienced, enthusiastic and affable, and very importantly that the ship has depth and flexibility with provisioning. Our Quest “grand voyage” cruise of early this year was the opposite, and the provisioning was bare bones-poor with no excuses or reasons forthcoming. Same for the onshore “experiences”, one in Rio, 2 days after Carnevale had ended (!), which was. of a Holiday Inn standard buffet. Maybe at that time the Soj WC had all of the dedicated staff from Seattle paying attention and the officer A team onboard? Hence the need for the brand to deliver consistency irrespective of ship, a subject that demands attention lest mediocrity creep back. Enjoy QM2 and this time don’t lift all the pillow chocolates by stuffing the trolley’s 9 deck supply in your cabin laundry bag. Happy and healthy sailing!

As I said above I am very happy on Dawn now. And her 2 sisters. I only mentioned Cloud in passing as a ship due to be retired. I know, as many others do, that Cloud is old/a repurposed original SS Med cruise ship, and not a patch on new expedition ships such as Venture. Ok? The idea is/was to try new experiences after assessing your own needs. I have done so and tried to be clear with my post re my perspective which includes 1000 days on SB. BTW, and when Seabourn addresses the obvious (to me at least) lapses, unknowns, as inconsistencies right now among their classic ships, I remain a skeptic. As in what is in store for SB’s future. That was much of my message. Happy and healthy sailing!