ak1004

Yes, we are trying SB too next year, and Windstar is also on our radar. I think you cannot go wrong with any of those small ships, a different league from mass market lines like Celebrity/Princess. The minor service issues that I described are really minor and did not impact our overall enjoyment. And yes, agree about enjoyment, but my point is - if I enjoy both lines almost the same, why to pay 50% for SS? But then again, it really depends on the category that you book. For people who book PH on O, entry level veranda on SS might be a better value (especially when comparing to PH on R ships).

That's true, also one of our favorite spots.

To be honest, I don't pay much attention to decor and furnishings, but they look comparable to me. One big difference worth mentioning is that on SS ships all public areas are on the aft, while the cabins are on forward and mid ship. This is very different from O (and most other lines) where public areas are spread between aft and forward (the theater for example is almost always forward while the dining room is aft). personally I don't really care. Those are small ship and fairly easy to navigate, no matter the design.

I'm not sure if you had a chance to compare with Silversea, so lets see: SS has 2 pricings: D2D and P2P. D2D includes air and transfers, but not always, sometimes D2D has air credit. and the fare is fully refundable. P2P does not include air, and the 15% deposit is non refundable. Then there is P2P pre paid, where you get an extra 10-15% discount, but have to pay in full and the whole payment is non refundable. In terms of inclusions: they market the line as all inclusive, but 2 out of 8 restaurants are extra. Excursions are included, but not all of them, some are extra, and only one in each port. Internet is included, but only a basic one (which is pretty basic), you have to pay $29/day to upgrade. Laundry is extra unless you are in one of the higher suites. So every line has its nuances, you just need to learn them and see if the overall package makes sense for you.

Head-to-Head: Comparing Oceania vs. Silversea

We have just returned from a cruise on Silver Dawn (full review here), and I would like to provide a comparison between Oceania and Silversea. The comparison refers to Oceania Riviera (3 cruises total, 2 post Covid) and Silver Dawn and Spirit (one cruise each, both post Covid). Those are my personal observations, priorities and preferences, yours might be different. Inclusions (depends on your preferences). Silversea markets itself as an All inclusive line, but this is not entirely correct. 2 out of 8 restaurants have a surcharge, to get decent internet you have to pay extra, and many wines are extra as well. Excursions are included, but not all of them, about 50% are extra charge. O excludes tips and excursions but you get certain credit depending on the length of the cruise, and wines and beer included with meals only. Some people prefer the all inclusive model, but if you don't drink and prefer to book private tours, O provides a better value for money. Service (almost tie). The service on SS was very good to excellent overall, but we didn't feel that they "learn our preference and anticipate our needs". Except our butler, nobody ever addressed us by our names, and nobody remembered our drink preferences. In fact, we had to ask for many things more than once (like drinks, ice etc) We found the service on O excellent as well, and we would give a very small edge to SS in this department. Staff (tie): I have only good things to say about the staff on both lines. They were extremely friendly and tried very hard. Stateroom (SS wins). We always book the lowest category OV or veranda. This category is ~305 sqft on SS and 240 sqft on O. While O cabins are very nice, SS was a real treat. There is a walking closet, and a curtain separating the bed from the living area. Bathroom Design (SS Wins). SS has both shower and bathtub, which is an advantage for many people. That said, the redesigned bathroom on O has a huge walk in shower, which is very nice. Internet (tie). SS has StarLink, but with the basic package that is included with the fare, they limit the speed to about 1.5M, which is pretty pathetic for an ultra luxury line in 2023. You can do the basic things like email, uploading photos, loading web pages etc, but they block high bandwidth sites and also block streaming like YouTube. To get good internet you need to upgrade, which is $29 a day (a bit less if you buy it for the whole cruise). On O I was getting 3-5 MB speed some days and under 1 MB other days. Slight improvement compared to previous sailings, but still not enough. Both lines need to improve the internet. Activities (tie). I would say that activities on both lines are almost non existent. This is fine for European port intensive cruise, but for the Caribbean, I would probably select another line for better activities. Entertainment (tie). Evening entertainment on SS included a show in the theatre at 9:45pm (not even every day), and some live music around the ship in the various lounges. There were no guest entertainers (I think SS is the only line that doesn't have guest entertainers, only in house shows). The in-house singers have great voices, but the shows were a bit repetitive. O at least has some guest entertainers, and they also have a very nice string quartet. Launderettes (tie). Both have great self-serve laundries. Beds (O wins). Both lines have excellent beds and bedding, but I likes O beds and bedding better. Butler (SS wins): Every suite on SS has butler service. Ours was almost invisible, but did his job very well. We didn't utilize him very much, and he did not volunteer to offer any extra services. O has butlers in PH and above. Ships (SS Wins). O has 3 newer ships (and one more on its way) - Riviera, Marina, Vista and Allura. I don't consider the older R ships in the same league due to much smaller cabins, less dining options etc. SS has 5 newer ships (and one more on its way) - Spirit, Muse, Moon, Dawn, Nova and Ray). All O ships are around 66 tons with 1,200-1250 passengers and 800 crew. The first 4 SS ships are around 40 tons, with 600 passengers and 411 crew. So O has around 1:1.55 passengers/crew ratio while SS has 1:1.45. SS has 1:65 passenger space ratio while O has 1:53. Both metrics give an edge to SS, but none of the ships ever felt crowded. Food at dinners (O wins). O has the main dining room, the buffet and 4 specialty restaurants, where you get certain number of reservations depending on cabin category and cruise length. While on board, you can get more reservations based on availability (all free). There is also baristas and afternoon tea which is a very nice experience. SS has 8 restaurants, but 2 of them are extra cost (which by itself is unacceptable on an all inclusive line). We found the food on both lines between very good and excellent, but O had more meals that were truly memorable. We especially like the specialty restaurants on O in terms of food quality and selection. Food at buffet (Oceania Wins). O has a buffet at breakfast, lunch and dinner, SS only breakfast and lunch. Selection and quality much better on O in my opinion, and O dinner buffet is exceptional, with Lobster and Grill station. We were disappointed with La Terazza breakfast and lunch buffet, both food and service. Long waits for simple items like cappuccino, Perrier etc. After a few days I gave up on Perrier and just was asking for their in house sparkling water, but they ran out of Perrier and Pellegrino around mid cruise, also all types of diet Coke. Excursions (SS wins): SS fare includes one excursion per port, while O provides some credit which is typically enough to cover about 20-25% of the excursions. They both use the same tour operators, but SS groups size is typically 20-25 people while O is closer to 35 (at least this was the case on our last cruise in May). That said, we prefer to book private tours, so to us, O model works better when it comes to excursions. Dress code(O wins): SS is much more formal, in fact, their dress code is the most ridiculous and archaic of all cruise lines. O is much more relaxed, no jackets required, but people still dress very respectfully. You can rarely see men in jeans or t ****. To me, O wins big time in this department, but of course there are many people who like SS dress code. Pricing (O wins): This one is tricky because the cabins are not comparable. O standard cabin is 240 sqft, then jumps to 350 sqft for PH (excluding veranda). SS entry level is 305 sqft, then jumps to 700 sqft for Silver Suite. This makes the comparison difficult. For entry level cabins, SS is more expensive by approximately 40-50%, but it also includes more, so the real gap is smaller. Summary: I consider both lines excellent overall. Some people consider SS in a different league (luxury vs premium category), but this was not my impression, based on our relatively small sample. To me SS is a step up compared to O, but a very small one. SS is a good value for people who drink decent amounts of alcohol, use exclusively ship excursions, need cabins larger than 250 sqft and take full advantage of the butler services. To me, O is a better value at this point, but we would gladly sail on both, depending on itinerary and pricing.

I never compared pricing for higher suites because we always book the lowest category. And I'm aware that comparing a 240 sqft on O with 300+ sqft on SS is not exactly apples to apples, but this is what we book, so this is the price point comparison for us. And this is exactly why I mentioned that SS might be a better value for people who like larger cabins. Also the comparison is even more problematic because on O the size jumps from 400 sqft for PH to over 1,000 sqft on Oceania suite, nothing in between, so obviously the price double between those two categories. But on SS there is a Sliver suite which is around 700 sqft.

We have very limited experience pre Covid (1 cruise with O and no cruises with SS), so I cannot compare to pre Covid and say with certainty which line slipped and which slipped more. To me, this is less relevant. We all know that a lot has changed after Covid, and what's relevant is the comparison of the current situation, and this is what I do, based on 2 cruises with SS and 3 with O post Covid. Yes, some people think O slipped badly, but you also read some very positive experiences. There was a very long and detailed topic on O board from a first time cruiser on O who did a very long planning and very detailed report and he said that O exceeded his expectations. So there are many opinions. And the previous poster said it the best: to me, the food is better on O (not by a large margin but still better), rest of the areas comparable, some slightly better on SS, but not enough to justify the ~50% difference in price.

We just returned from the Dawn and I posted a review - https://www.cruisecritic.com/memberreviews/memberreview.cfm?EntryID=710046 We had a great trip, although with few minor issues, and this sailing confirmed my current take: maybe before Covid SS and O were in different leagues, now I consider them comparable. SS might be a small step up, but a very small one, and I'm not sure the price difference is justified to me. SS is a good value for people who drink decent amounts of alcohol, use exclusively ship excursions, need cabins larger than 250 sqft and take full advantage of the butler services. I know that not everyone would agree, but this is my opinion. Questions are welcome.

Exactly. But we also have seen more than enough men with their own jackets who hanged them once they reached the table. No opinions, just the facts.

Yea.. this might happen on some ships, I just didn't want to take a chance since 6 out of 10 nights are formal or informal. I remember last year on the Spirit we tried to enter Antantide on informal night with no jacket, they told us that jacket is required and didn't offer the option to lend one. Maybe because we were a group of 4 couples.. So maybe it depends on the ship, not sure.

Correct. I was referring to the current dress code on all classic ships except the Nova. To me the jacket is the issue. I have few suits, if I bring a jacket, I can bring the matching slacks from the same suite.

Still need a jacket in La Terrazza on formal nights, just no tie.

We just completed our second cruise on SS, and while it was great, I simply don’t see what puts SS in a different world from O. They ran out of some basic items like Perrier, Pelligrino, all diet cokes, cream cheese etc. And they charge extra for some things that are expected to be included on an ultra luxury all inclusive line. And many people on board told us that SS misses ports too and shorten times in ports too. I think SS is a great value for people who drink, like to book ship excursions, use their butlers extensively and like larger cabins. To us, not sure I can justify paying 40-50% premium.

Never stops to amaze me why some people are so obsessed about what other people are wearing..

We are on the Dawn. Officially the classic dress code still applies, but it’s not really enforced. I haven’t seen people with jeans, t shirts or shirts, but I did see people with no jackets in La Terrazza on formal night. But I also know that people were denied entry to Atlantide without a jacket. And it’s definitely not enforced in public areas like bars, Venetian lounge etc. I’m not sure if this was always the case.

Very nice, tasteful and elegant. And I’m sure you won’t feel out of place. We have seen people dressed like this even on Oceania which is a very casual line, and they didn’t feel out of place.

The issue is that it’s not symmetrical. With the current code, you can dress as you wish, while I cannot. If they do it similar to Nova, both of us can be happy. And nobody is coming to dinner like they did yard work. They can still enforce the no jeans and no t shirts policy.

We are currently on the Dawn. Spoke to literally dozens of guests. NONE of them wants the current dress code. Remember that relaxing the dress code doesn’t mean allowing jeans, short or t shirts. There still will be formal nights, but rest of the nights those of us who don’t like it, will have an option to wear a nice dressy shirt with nice slacks, but no jackets. Those who still insist wearing jackets or ties can still do it. The change is inevitable.

can you ask her if and when the rest of the fleet will follow?

thanks, very helpful. I definitely wouldn’t expect 90-100M. But I believe that at least 5M is a minimum for an ultra luxury line in 2023.

My comment of capacity control referred to La Dame, not the internet. La Dame on the Spirit is much smaller, so charging a fee to control demand did make some sense. But La Dame on the Dawn is about 3 times larger, so the capacity control excuse doesn’t hold anymore. While this is not related to the internet discussion, it’s just another example how SS will use every excuse to extract more money from guests while marketing itself as all inclusive line. As for tied internet service - it’s fine as long as the basic service is satisfactory. Then you can say that the basic is good and the premium is excellent. The problem is that this is not the case. If I was getting 5M in Princess (mass market line) in 2018, I consider 1.5M adequate at best for 2023 on an ultra luxury line. From a line like SS, I expect better than just adequate. Fortunately having good internet is now less critical to me than it was a few years ago when I was much more involved in my business.

We book our cruises based on combination of itinerary, price and ship experience. We just booked 2 cruises on O for 2025, each with two overnights and two extended stays till late evening. The price was in $340-370 usd range. Similar sailings wirh SS started around $600 usd for p2p with non refundable deposit. It was an easy choice. SS misses ports too, but $1200 sea day is more difficult to swallow than $700 sea day. So for us it's really case by case. I find that O and SS have more similarities than some people think and it really comes to itinerary and price. We love both.

We were advised by our butler today that the ship ran out of Perrier and Pelegrino. Still 4 days to go. Never happened on O.

Exactly. Even with 0.5M you can still do most things. It just would take forever. We can continue going in circles, but we can all agree about the facts. Less than 10% of the guests get the real speed of StarLink. 90%+ get the reduced speed of 1.5M unless they pay $29 a day Some people think it’s ok. I think it’s unacceptable and misleading. But at least the prospective guests know what to expect. It’s pretty much the same as with La Dame. We all agree that 90% of the guests have to pay for it. Some people think it’s ok. Some believe it’s unacceptable for an all inclusive line. On the Spirit they had an excuse of a very small venue that needs capacity control. What’s the excuse on the Dawn?