MADflyer
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Posts posted by MADflyer
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I see the article only as a factual account of what actually happened and trying to make sense of the cruise industries' actions and reactions to the developing pandemic. What makes it great investigative journalism is how it connects the events in real time and provides information from both the cruise lines and passenger's perspectives.
The quote from the CDC really says it all:
“This is not to point blame,” said Marty Cetron, director of the CDC’s Division of Global Migration and Quarantine, in an interview earlier this month. “But we have to be honest about the science and the evidence.”
Air travel and resort travel differ in one key way from the cruise segment in that the passenger is much more dependent on the information provided by the cruise line, the competence of the medical staff and shipboard and shore-side management.
Take the case of Miami Beach, where the health department and city management made the call to close the hotels on Miami Beach and not the individual hotels with their varied motivations to stay open or close.
https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article241382501.html
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38 minutes ago, Jimbo said:
That is a great piece of investigative journalism and is probably bound for another Pulitzer prize.
The story is not over with all of the crew infections and deaths. I think the Carnival Corp practice of crew transfers will certainly be eliminated as a result of this pandemic with Princess and Costa exceptionally hit.
As with everything else, we will move to a 'new normal' and while cruising will not go unchanged, the rebound will come just for all other affected industries. Many of the changes that are coming will probably be for the greater good and long term sustainability of the industry.
The governmental controls in place are probably keeping the market driven forces from making this situation even worse for the cruise industry in the long run.
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The G20 Tourism Ministers met last Friday the 24th of April in a virtual meeting hosted by the Saudi Arabian tourism minister.
While the United States disbanded that department of tourism in 1981 and then further reduced government function in 1996, I guess the Tourism Advisory Board of the Department of Commerce would represent the United States. Does anyone know?
The EU Tourism Ministers met yesterday the 27th of April.
The articles appearing in member countries mostly talk about the focus on domestic tourism, a possible COVID-19 passport and the focus on international travel after September of 2021. I have not seen any mention of the cruise industry at all so far.
It is interesting that Saudi Arabia is coordinating so much with the G20 and in other tourism organizations. One fear I have noticed mentioned is that the Saudis will take over a number of companies in the travel sector all around the world in the crisis.
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6 minutes ago, bobmacliberty said:
@MADflyer - Any rumors on when Madrid may reopen for international travelers? My daughter was living there, teaching English. She flew back to the States the day before the lockdown began, but left a few things of value in her flat. She wants to fly (at my expense 🙄) back to retrieve her stuff (and of course visit friends). We're telling her to pay someone to, when they are able to do so, ship her stuff back here. Will be cheaper than flying. If it will be several months before she is allowed to fly in, her lease will expire and she will have no choice.
If she was living and working in Spain she may have a residency card. Travel is allowed, if absolutely necessary, and she may need to check with authorities if the residency card is of use in this matter as that can get quite bureaucratic.
Her travel might be able to be deemed not tourism related in this case. Europeans have attempted to enter the country for necessary travel but then caught moving to a vacation rental property and there fined and put on a return flight.
Aena the Spanish airport authority updates directions frequently concerning travel during the state of emergency. Changing the language in the search (buscar) section will change the whole page to English.
Madrid Airport info
http://www.aena.es/en/madrid-barajas-airport/index.html
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27 minutes ago, drlucy12 said:
Will the countries open to "land" tours before cruising?
In a pandemic all international travel presents a high risk.
While Madrid was being hit first, the first cases in Spain on the Costa del Sol were a group of American tourists on a luxury coach tour, where the guide was Italian. There were nine from that group in quarantine at a hotel in Malaga for 2 weeks prior to flying home and they were quarantined the same day that Allure of the Seas was in port.
There were over 45 total foreign traveler cases in the quarantine for 14 days at that hotel. One American doctor traveling with the group was among the first deaths in Andulucia at a hospital in Ronda.
Many Spanish villages constructed temporary road blocks, some by just dumping soil in the road to prevent entry by 'outsiders', including foreign travelers along with those from the Madrid region.
In Sweden, a family returning from 2 weeks in the United States were among the first cases reported. The father had attended a conference and the family had traveled to 3 cities while in the USA.
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Just now, bigeck said:
Norwegian Air are in the process of getting a bail out from the Norwegian government
Yes, the bailout terms are what they are presenting today. It will be interesting if they are successful by next week. Still interesting that they see no reason to even attempt to restart successful routes until summer of 2021.
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2 minutes ago, drlucy12 said:
Unfortunately, Norwegian Air was having financial trouble last year before COVID 19 hit. The virus worsened the situation. I am not sure they will survive now.
Many airlines will fail.
What was interesting was that their 'attempt' to survive involves not flying ANY international flights until summer of 2021 and thus the relation to this topic. They do not see even attempting to fly in 2020 as an option and that is somewhat amazing.
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While not directly related, it does show the trend developing.
Norwegian Airlines has just presented a plan for survival that will be based on having no international flights until 2021.
They are working with the Norwegian government and the plan involves getting concessions from creditors.
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3 minutes ago, steamboats said:
We were able to access the La Repubblica and he was talking about the slow reopening of the country for tourism... first for Italians only. But there´s no fixed "we don´t open for foreign tourists til the end of the year" as stated in the article from Pakistan.
steamboats
All media sources are just picking up on what was presented in the 'physical' La Repubblica Sunday from the interview on Saturday. There is a lot of travel between Pakistan and Italy and that is why the article would have been of interest there, just as much as it was in Russia.
He does state in the article in La Repubblic on Sunday that the final decision will be up to the State (Government) based on the science and their own choice, but that there would be no international travel 'this year'. The focus early on would be on domestic tourism. This thought is very much in line with what is being discussed in Spain.
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5 hours ago, Bobal said:
Link please. (But not if it's the speculative piece in the football newspaper La Marca, which has been shared a few times on these boards)
There are literally 100s of sources concerning the situation with Spanish international tourism and the likelihood that the restrictions will stay in place until the end of the year. The sources in English would be more limited.
One:
Google Translate: The paralysis of tourism until the end of the year will cost more than 124,000 million to the sector-
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7 hours ago, steamboats said:
Without reading the original source it´s not really possible to say whether the minister only tells his personal opinion. I haven´t heard anything here in Germany about Italy not allowing tourists til the end of the year.
Here is the same story picked up by the Russian media outlet if that is trusted source.....
https://actualidad.rt.com/actualidad/351241-italia-fronteras-cerradas-turistas-hasta-fin-ano
Italia mantendrá sus fronteras cerradas hasta finales de año para los turistas de otros países, afirmó el ministro de Bienes Culturales y Turismo Dario Fraceschini en una entrevista para el diario La Repubblica el 25 de abril.
Google translate :
Italy will keep its borders closed until the end of the year for tourists from other countries, said the Minister of Cultural Property and Tourism Dario Fraceschini in an interview for the daily La Repubblica on April 25. The dates of the restart of tourism for foreigners in Italy will depend on the epidemiological trend and the States' own choice. "International tourism this year will not come. Hence the 'Vacation in Italy' plan for a large investment in domestic tourism," said the official.
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There will be plenty of confirmation coming soon when the EU and the various governments plans are all put into place and made official. Until then the news leaking out gradually about what the various governments are considering and what is being discussed at the European Union level are the only clues we have to go on.
Most indicators have been looking at October being the earliest possible start for international tourism and with the cancellation of Oktoberfest last week that seems to indicate an end of 2020 date now to be the most likely.
This article is based off of an article that does appear in Italy's La Repubblica a well respected 'traditional' newspaper. It is certainly not known as a source of 'fake news'
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1 hour ago, Ourusualbeach said:
Do you think that this also include the cosmetic work that they were planning for all the Spa Balcony cabins that they have been selling.
The statement from the shipyard just states that the original reduction of the contract did not include any work on the cabins. It was very general.
Most upgrades on the spa cabins are 'soft' items that can be done very quickly in a 'modularized' ship stateroom. Very few structural changes are ever done to ship cabins under renovations.
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37 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:
What about the Azipod issues?
It looks like they are trying to get into Cadiz, just through the fact they are keeping the ship in Europe. In the worst case they will have to take her to another dry dock that is open, like Rotterdam among others.
Rotterdam has had the World Dream in dry dock since April the 2nd and she should be in the final week now if the project is going as planned.
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Just now, Ocean Boy said:
You mean cramming more and more people into the ships is not a good idea?
It never was!
Allure, Liberty, Adventure and Explorer will now be my favored ships for booking in the future. I hope that the addition of cabins and the reduction of public areas is delayed for many years. They can update and refresh all the public areas they want.
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Just now, LXA350 said:
The cabins were never planed to be refurbished, except for replacement of TV's but otherwise the only thing to be done with cabin would have been to add more of them and these kind of projects will likely be cancelled going forward.
All work on cabins, including the addition of new cabins was already cancelled prior to the ship's arrival in Spain. The reduced contract was cancelled. We are now waiting to see if Navantia will secure a new contract with whatever RCI will want to have completed. Information will hopefully leak out in the coming week.
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Allure departing Southampton right on time and now shows a return to Southampton on Wednesday, May 6th.
Hopefully that could lead to an arrival on Monday, May 11th at Cadiz if the Spanish state of emergency is lifted. There is no confirmation of that, but the movement of the ship would fit that possible timeline.
Spain is allowing families to take children out for walks within 2 miles of their homes from tomorrow and that has allowed for the opening of some beach promenades. Sunbathing and gatherings are still in violation and subject to citations.
It does not appear likely at the moment that the Spanish government will or could get approval to continue the state of emergency past the 10th of May.
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7 minutes ago, Saab4444 said:
Eliminating the virus in a country would also mean no international travel including flights and business trips for the next year(s), simply not possible if economies should survive.
That is true. Cruising would be come a very low priority in this effort.
International Flights can at least be pre-screened and tested prior to leaving their origin and on arrival, where daily testing on a cruise ship would be nearly impossible and then where would you quarantine those that did not clear testing.
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1 minute ago, diesel1973 said:
From what I understand RCCL has hired temporary workers to handle the overload. Sounds like they might have a pirate working for them.
I think RCL and RCI have actually had a severe reduction of staff and have terminated all outside consulting contracts.
There are many possibilities on this email situation.
Companies are being hit with record levels of phishing attempts and with many workers moved to working from home, successful hacking has increased substantially. I have no idea on RCI's situation.
It would not surprise me if they have an automated final payment system and that this could just be some sort of error.
NCL uses the Personal Travel Planner system and mine has always been the exact same name for 12 years now, emails are always generated when I do not answer an automated phone call from them, then it is always a different person stating to be this named Personal Travel Planner if I do call them back or answer.
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1 hour ago, banzaii said:
If anything, the flattening of the curve in both Aust & NZ should provide an ideal platform for the return of cruising.
Flattening the curve would be a mitigation strategy and as an outsider interpreting the statements from the governments of Aust. & NZ, their focus seems to go much further than mitigation, but elimination of the virus.
My interpretation of that would be that there would be most likely no 2020-21 NZ cruises and that it could even extend to the 2021-22 season.
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1 hour ago, banzaii said:
Not working out even a modified deployment for Australian summer 2021-22 is not instlling a great deal of faith in the company.
With the current focus on eliminating COVID-19 in New Zealand and Australia and not just mitigating the virus as is being done in the United States, I would really not be surprised if New Zealand especially might not even open to cruising in 2021. Cruise travel will certainly be the last form of international travel to be restored to New Zealand.
Under these conditions, I see no rush for Royal Caribbean to release the 2021-22 season, especially since there is currently severe doubt that most of the sailings will sail and may be restricted and potentially cancelled. While cruise lines would love to have business as usual, there is no way that is going to happen.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/24/world/australia/new-zealand-coronavirus.html
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22 minutes ago, Biker19 said:
That's probably just the big official gatherings - I'm sure there'll plenty of folks getting together in small groups to drink beer.
Well, it is known as the biggest 'folkfest' in the world with over 2 million annual foreign visitors. That would be about 10% of the passengers that sail globally on all cruise lines annually.
The cancellation was actually done by Bavaria and the Social Democratic Mayor of Munich, but they are all working off the same plan for Germany as a whole.
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4 hours ago, banzaii said:
We are talking about cruises at least 17 months away. Other lines including those run by RCI have released their deployments beyond that.
They wont know what demand there is if they don't release.
Royal Caribbean has always had a history of releasing deployment later than other lines and there are many factors that have influenced this decision.
Australia 2020 sailings were released in March of 2019 and Australia 2019 sailings were released in April of 2018.
These release dates were under normal business conditions. RCL uses the same department for deployment of Celebrity, Azamara and then RCI. I would not be surprised if much of this department was recently furloughed, most likely on a 90 day leave of absence. This has been very common throughout the hospitality and tourism industry.
The move of Quantum to Alaska was a part of the Asia and Australia decisions and would have had an affect on 2021 deployment. From what I am seeing on port schedules this was the last move by RCL in February and I have seen no new port bookings or cancellations since that time. I do not know the situation with the operation of the department that handles deployment for all RCL ships.
I would think that extended delays under these special circumstances would not be unexpected.
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4 hours ago, EscapeFromConnecticut said:
Doesn't look like Spain or Italy want cruise ships this year, gang. Germany just scrapped Oktoberfest, and that's a BIG deal.
Governments dealing with a major crisis never tell you everything directly, but messaging is clear through their actions.
When Spain cancelled 'Semana Santa', the holy week, when first issuing the state of emergency the message of just how serious this virus was very clear.
Germany, led by a physicist, cancelling Oktoberfest is a very big deal, especially 5 months out!
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After you read this, you may think twice about boarding a cruise ship or airplane so soon!
in Royal Caribbean International
Posted
None at all. As a researcher, I have a great deal of respect for the art of journalism and this is a well done piece of investigative journalism and that is what it would receive a Pulitzer prize for in this case.
Pulitzer prizes are not given on the subject matter and what one might have as an opinion one way or the other about the topic at hand.