pdmlynek

12 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Even in countries where passports are required for entry there is rarely a requirement for you to carry your passport on your person.  While there are both pro and con arguments on carrying your passport I think you'll  find that most travel professionals advise to leave it in the safe, where it can't be lost, damaged or stolen. Take a photo ID such as a drivers license and your cabin key card ashore. That's all you need almost everywhere you go. 

Again, a person with a drivers license and cabin key in a foreign country is an undocumented person.

A driver's license is not considered an identification in most countries; it is merely a document relating to vehicle operations.  The country where I was born and grew up, report cards were considered as an ID, but it would not serve that purpose in the US. 

In any case, if you are going to use a DL in a non-English speaking country, a US license is still not meaningful way to identify you as a vehicle operator; you need an International Driver's License.  I've been stopped in foreign countries by traffic cops several times, and in a few of those they had no idea what my DL was for; it was only after I presented my IDL that it was clear to them that my DL was a DL.

Keeping your passport in a safe is foolish.  What is exactly is the game plan if a cop stops you, and accuses you of being in the country ilegally?  What is the game plan if you miss the ship and try to get on a plane?  Just carry your passport with you like a normal adult traveling in a foreign country.

12 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Your "what if a  cop stops you" question borders on being silly. If you don't have proper documentation you won't be allowed to board the cruise to begin with, much less be allowed to disembark in the country in question. Upon arrival the ship has to be cleared by local authorities before anyone can disembark, and part of that clearance process is the acknowledgement of local immigration officials that passengers are in compliance with the country's entry requirements as documented on the passenger manifest provided by the ship to local officials.

Well, sure, the local authorities can ascertain that everyone on board has the right to come ashore based on the documents provided.

However, how does a cop who stops an obvious foreigner know if the foreigner is in the country legally?  Although a cruise passenger may be in the country legally, he is an undocumented foreigner.  Traveling without a passport is foolish.

On 1/29/2023 at 1:55 PM, pmamolou said:

Do I need to pre-plan transportation in these cases?  I don't think I want to spend a day in Piraeus and I know that port is half an hour from Athens proper..

I am not sure what you mean by "pre-plan".  If you mean "plan", as in, read up what is available in each port, then yes, go ahead and do that.  If you mean to buy tickets ahead of time, then no.

In Athens, there are plenty of ways of get between the port and the city: bus, metro, taxi, etc.  In Santorini you just walk up the hill and catch a bus on the top.   

On 2/4/2023 at 6:44 PM, njhorseman said:

Why is your travel agent questioning this when WHTI regulations permit and Royal Caribbean clearly allows a US citizen to take the cruise using a birth certificate and photo Id such as a driver's license?

 

 @sparks1093has already cited the relevant passage from Royal Caribbean's website:

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/what-travel-documents-i-need-for-boarding-day

"For sailings departing from U.S. homeports, an official US state-issued Birth Certificate is also accepted. Guests age 16 and older that present an official US state-issued Birth Certificate will also need to provide a valid Driver’s License or picture ID issued by the government."

I think that it is foolish to rely on an advice of Royal Caribbean about what documents are needed by foreign governments for entry.

WHTI is a project of DOS and DHS.  If they say that CBP is to accept BC & DL, that's fine.  Neither department speaks on behalf of foreign governments.

Sure, you can cruise without a passport, and just a DL & US BC for the purpose of getting an entry into the US, but there is no guarantee what you need to enter Honduras.  If you show up in Honduras sans a passport, you are simply an undocumented alien.  Although Honduras does not require a visa from a holder of a US passport, it does require it from holders of passports of most countries.  If a cop in Honduras stops you, how would he know that you are there legally or illegally?  

Good luck!

On 2/2/2023 at 10:59 AM, tonyfall1 said:

I will be flying in the night before my cruise. Both flights are direct flights. I can save a total of $140 if I check one large bag for me and my wife instead of bringing 2 carry on bags. My only reservation about the checked bag is being overly paranoid that it somehow gets lost. Just wondering everyones thoughts on this.

You've already received lots of repolies telling you not to worry.

While I agree with others that you should check, that is another alternative.  

I assume that based on your init that you are flying with Spirit.  Although you will be changed for carryons, your personal items are still free.  Spirit allows personal item up to 45x35x20 cm, or 31.5 liters.  If you are going on a Caribbean cruise, I think that 31.5 liter bag that fits under the seat in from of you is more than plenty.  

If you are going on a cruise in the Caribbean, you really don't need to bring anything with you.  You do not need a sleeping bag, a tent, or a sleeping pad.  Likewise, you do not need to bring cooking utensils, stove, cooking gear, tableware, silverware, etc.  You do not need to bring water or food.  Even tolet paper, towels, and shampoo is provided.  Just exactly what are you packing?  A toothbrush, toothpaste, floss, a few changes of underwear, a few shirts, your cell phone, flip flops, swim suit and a first aid kit.  That's pretty much it, no? That easily packs into a small daypack.  

Just travel with a personal item.  

The number 1 danger on a ship is not running into an iceberg or sinking, but fire.  The threat of fire is the most important concern to safety of a ship.  

It used to be that passangers could not smoke inside, but it was OK to do it on a balcony. But ever since the deadly 2006 Star Pricess fire, caused by smoking on a balcony, smoking on balconies is banned. 

Smoking is, for better of worse, taken very seriously by the ship's crew.

On 2/10/2023 at 3:36 PM, donaldsc said:

Check out this very funny video about traveling w guitar - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YGc4zOqozo

 

That's exctly what I thought when I read the question.  😄 

21 hours ago, Hlitner said:

As to lifetime guarantees, as they say in Brooklyn, "Forget about it."  We travel too often to deal with the time involved in getting luggage repaired.  The guarantees are legit, but the process and time necessary to get repairs simply does not work for folks that are constantly on the move. ....

Hank @Hlitner is correct, as always.  

Lifetime warranties are worthless.  If a zipper or hinge or another part on a luggage fails while traveling, and the contents of the bag spill all over the tarmac or loading dock, I could not care less if I get my money back or I get the bag repaired.  I damage caused by the failure of the luggage part is much greater to a traveler than the cost of getting the failed part replaced or repaired.  

On 2/12/2023 at 12:53 AM, Flatbush Flyer said:

...

And though extremely important, durability is not the only consideration. A lifetime warranty (with few to no exceptions) add real value to an investment in the right product.

....

Durability is the only consideration when we are discussing durability.  A lifetime warranty is irrelevant when it comes to durability.

A lifetime warranty does not add any real value to an investment in the right product.  Firstly, a luggage is not an investment; it is merely a cost.  A consumer buys the product and uses it.  Or do invenstors buy 10, 100, or 1000 pieces of luggage hoping to selling at a profit in a year or two like other investments?  I have not seen or heard of that. 

Secondly, I've seen plenty of luggage on secondary market, and no buyer of used luggage cares if there is a lifetime warranty on that luggage.  The buyer of used luggage may care about the durability, and durable luggage may sell for a bigger price than similar less durable luggage, but there is no premium on luggage with lifetime warranty.  

12 hours ago, navybankerteacher said:

No, it is just understanding the language.

 

Discriminating between is simply choosing one option over another - usually on the basis of personal taste.

 

Discriminating against obviously means imposing personal feelings AGAINST option not chosen.

So discriminating between is a matter of personal taste whereas discriminating against is a matter of personal feelings?

If you travel with Cunard, are you selecting Cunard over Carnival based on your personal feelings or based on your personal taste?  

If a cruise line prefers to cater to couples over solo travelers, are they selecting couples on the bases of personal taste or personal feelings?  Can a cruise line have personal feelings of personal tastes?   

I am sorry, but there might be some sort of a vague difference between marketing to couples based on the cruise line's personal tastes or personal feelings, but I don't think that it matters.  In either case, the solo cruiser will not be as catered to as well as a cuise line caters to couples, regardless whether he was discriminated between or discriminated against.  Functionally it is the same thing.

13 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

It is not semantics (or maybe it is semantics if you define semantics as the branch of linguistics concerned with meaning)....

 

Discriminate has two meanings, according to the Oxford Advanced American Dictionary
 

discriminate verb
/dɪˈskrɪməˌneɪt/ 
Verb Forms
 
1.  [intransitive, transitive] to recognize that there is a difference between people or things; to show a difference between people or things
synonym differentiate, distinguish
discriminate (between A and B) The computer program was unable to discriminate between letters and numbers.
discriminate something When do babies learn to discriminate voices?
discriminate A from B A number of features discriminate this species from others.

2.  [intransitive] to treat one person or group worse/better than another in an unfair way
discriminate (against somebody) discriminate (in favor of somebody) practices that discriminate against women and in favor of men
discriminate (on the grounds of something) It is illegal to discriminate on grounds of race, sex, or religion.

So, if you choose to drink Pepsi instead of Coke, are you discriminating against Coke?  Or are you discriminating between Coke and Pepsi?

If you choose to sail to Greece instead of South America, are you discriminating against sailing to South America?

Likewise, if a cruise line choses to market to families or couples, is it discriminating against solo travelers?  Or is the cruiseline merely discriminating between types of passengers?

...which is where this silly argument started in the first place.  

The temperature inside of a ship in Alaska was not noticable  It was like being in a classroom, office, a grocery store, etc.  I guess, long sleeved temperatures.

Coats and jackets inside of a ship was rare.  

16 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

In any case, you’re missing the point. No one here is saying that durability has anything to do with cost.

I am sorry, but isn't that exactly what you posted when you wrote:

"Spending $$$ on the right luggage will get you a lifetime guarantee of durability." ?

16 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

I assume you’ve never seen a duffel bag that’s been torn up by mechanical handling machinery at major hub airports. It’s not a pretty sight.

...

You are correct.  I've never seen or heard of it happening.  That is why I use duffel bags.

2 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Let's not get too literal here.

You are right.  😄  I was just joking around.  

23 hours ago, sofietucker said:

This is a useful site. From their top page:

Fares are charged with a meter after the initial base rate of €3.44 is applied. The tariff is €0.74 per Km and will double after midnight through to 5am. There are flat fares to and from the airport: 38 euros to central Athens (including luggage, VAT and road tolls). A flat fee of 55 euros from midnight to 5am. These prices are for standard taxi fares that are not pre-arranged such as private taxi transfers that are offering a superior service. If you are getting into a taxi from the airport, you will be directed into a queue outside the arrivals hall. 

 

For Piraeus specifically, scroll down in this page and click on pricing, etc.https://agora.whyathens.com/shop/piraeus-port-transfer-central-athens/

 

Well, sure, there are overpriced services that charge double or more what others charge.  Some people may view it as a rip off; I view it as pricing services according to what the market bears.

In any case, we paid 17 Euro for a taxi from a hotel in Plaka directly to the pier.  

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The ship cannot deny you disembarkation, for any reason, in any port.  They can make it difficult, and they can point to costs involved, but they cannot hold you on the ship, even for an unpaid account.

What about Diamond Pricess in Yokohama when pasengers were not let off for a month in Feb 2020?

Further, surely a passenger who is arrested for a suspecion of murder won't be able to get off the ship prior to being turned over to the local authorities, even if he wants to.

Further, surely, the ship personnel won't let a 7-year-old child wonder off a ship by itself in a foreign port.   I hope, anyway.  Certainly, a 13 year old might be old enough to do so, but I hope that there is some sort of a security that would prevent little kids just getting off a ship by themselves.

8 hours ago, auntmeg said:

There's a difference between discriminating between and discriminating against.

Is this true?  Can you please let me know the functional difference between "discriminating between" and "discriminating against"?  Do you have a source for this claim?

To me, this is just semantics.  

10 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

...

 

I would beg to differ on whether a fine was ever levied for a crewmember, as they are not considered passengers, by legal definition.   CBP is very specific about the definition of a "passenger".

 

From the CBP PVSA "Informed Compliance" Manual:

 

"CBP has interpreted this regulation to mean that a “passenger” within the meaning of the PVSA is any person transported on a vessel who is not directly and substantially connected with the operation of the vessel, her navigation, ownership, or business."

 

"Examples of who is not a "passenger" per the definition of "directly or substantially connected with the operation of the vessel" are listed as:

 

Pursuant to 19 C.F.R. § 4.50(b), a passenger is any person carried on a vessel who is not connected with the operation of such vessel, her navigation, ownership, or business.

 

Operation or Navigation of the Vessel

• Auditors and inspectors conducting surveys pursuant to the International Ship and Port Facility Security (ISPS) Code, International Safety Management (ISM) Code, International Convention for the Safety of Life at Sea (SOLAS), and International Convention for the Prevention of Pollution from Ships (MARPOL). 22

• Cargo hold cleaning crews performing cargo hold cleaning operations.23

• Safety and maintenance inspectors24

• Individuals conducting safety trainings for the crew.25

• Technicians conducting maintenance or repairs on the vessel. 26

 

Ownership or Business of the Vessel

 • The officers of a company owning a vessel, and, if the corporate owner, the members of its board of directors, if acting in their official capacities while onboard the vessel.2

 

The spouse and children of officers of a vessel are not passengers. The children must be a part of the officer’s household.28 CBP has found the following positions to be officers of the vessel:

• Captain/Master/Chief Officer;29

• Chief/First Mate;30

• Second Officer;31

• Third Officer;32

• Radio Officer;33

• Chief Engineer;34 and

• First Assistant Engineer"

 

The PVSA fine has gone up to $798.  Notice the bolding above for outside technicians.  And, crew are signed onto ship's articles, and therefore not being transported "for hire".

Yes, you are correct, I misremembered it.  What I remembered was that one does not have to be a paying passenger in order to be considered a passenger.  

I reviewed my notes from 11 years ago, when I looked this up, and a passsenger includes "an individual that was to provide a lecture regarding the history of wine and wines" (https://rulings.cbp.gov/ruling/H054243) , "a clothing consultant to give advince about nashion for the passengers", "marketing employees shooting a marketing videos" (H081080), and "A Manager, Marine Hotel Operations traveling onboard to conduct an overall operational review, including food and beverage service, entertainment, housekeeping, and accounting" (H067177).

I stand corrected.

On 2/1/2023 at 12:17 PM, marktwothousand said:

...I consider it a sign of respect to use local currency where possible ...

I agree.  It just seems to be pretty patronizing to use USD/EUR instead of local currency.  

On 2/8/2023 at 1:03 PM, dargor5 said:

I wanted to leave this as my experience because this was a very hard answer to find online. I am from Venezuela and is almost impossible to renew my passport, but my wife and I are legal permanent residents (green card).

On Jan 15 we went on Princess cruise with just our green cards, no passports. We will try Royal next but from what the lady at port mentioned to me, you can in fact cruise with just your green card as long as is a closed loop. Only issue is you will not be able to do pre check in, you have to do the whole thing in person (it was just 10 minutes for us).

For anyone saying "what if an emergency" I have an answer. For us green card holders when flying to the US, CBP (custom border protection) only cares about our status so they only need our green cards. It is stated on the CBP website that a green card is sufficient to enter the US by land, air or sea (it is on their website just a google away)

During disembarkation my wife and I went through the same line as US Citizens as they already have your biometrics when they scanned our cards to get on the cruise.

For reference this was leaving from Galveston, 7 day cruise, ports of call: Roatan, Costa Maya and Cosumel

Thank you for the contribution. 

Well, sure, you are able to come back into the US on your Green Card.  The GC documents that you are legally allowed to enter the US.  

But the problem is: what documentation do you have that you are legally allowed to be in other countries that you'll cruise to?  If a cop stops you in one of the countries you are visiting, and you have no passport on you, you may be treated as an illegal alien.  

On 2/9/2023 at 10:12 PM, GeezerCouple said:

 

Yes, definitely, "being sick" can be a very "special circumstance" such that one can disembark early... or possibly "BE disembarked" even if one thinks it's "okay" to remain on the ship.  Others on the ship, such as the physician and Captain, will make these determinations.

 

GC

Is this true?  Did the laws change?  Based on the case law that I reviewed a few years ago, the shipping line is charged a fee regardless of the reason.  There were cases of doctors being brought on board, or special mechanics or crew members, leaving early, etc.  and in every case the cruise line had to pay.

Whether the cruise line choses to pass the fee onto the sick passenger is a different question.

On 1/28/2023 at 9:47 AM, wcook said:

If leaving early causes the ship to violate cabotage laws, the ship can be fined and they have the right to go after the passenger for the cost of that fine. Not worth - IMO - the risk of a multi thousand $fine to just walk off instead of asking. 

Yo uare correct, but that is not the issue here.  If @Hey! Jude were to travel only between US ports without entering Canada, then you'd be correct.  In this case, as in @navybankerteacher's case, starting a journey in one country and disembarking in another does not violate the cabotage laws.

BTW, is it up to multi thousand $ fines?  A few years ago, the fine was just $350.  

If using a travel agent ("TA") is so much better than booking the cruises yourself, then can someone please expain the economics to me?  Because, it just does not make sense.

A TA makes a commission of 10% to 15% on a booked cruise.  Unless the passenger pays the TA directly, the commission must be paid by the cruiseline.  A typical cruise line (pre-Covid) spends about 8% on fuel, 10% payroll, 12% operating expense, 6% food, Mkting & Admin 14%, depreciation 11%, etc. and 15% on commissions, making about 19% profit.  Those commissions are the biggest outlay.  

Why would a cruiseline give a passenger who costs them extra 10-15% favorable treatment? Wouldn't the cruise line treat a customer that buys directly much better?  

On 2/7/2023 at 1:51 PM, mnocket said:

What is legal and what is right can be two different things.  

 

Discrimination is discrimination whether a protected class is involved or not and should be recognized as such.  While discrimination is only illegal if a protected class is involved, legal discrimination should not automatically be accepted.

 

Today it's solo cruisers, but tomorrow it could be many of us too.  Consider that age discrimination has already crept into cruising as a barrier to participating in some excursions (i.e. age being a proxy for ability).  Now imagine if cruise lines decided to apply the same rationale they use to discriminate against solo cruisers to the elderly.  Imagine if cruise lines decided to limit the number of passengers over a certain age because they determined those passengers were less profitable (i.e. spent less money onboard).

 

Discrimination is a slippery slope.  Today it's "them" and tomorrow it might be "you".

The problem is that the word "discrimination" is defined neutrally, but has a negative connotation.

Do you discriminate against Coke if you choose to buy Pepsi?  Well, according to the definition of discrimination, sure, but you certainly do not view it as doing anything wrong.  Do you discriminate against Carnival when you book a cruise with Celebrity?  Sure.  Do you discriminate against your neighbor because you treat your spouse to a cruise and not your neighbor?  Sure. 

There are cruiselines that cater to old people, or to rich people, or to young people, etc.  That is just normal business.  What do you suggest?