chengkp75

Yeah, that 3 watt USB fan (even if there are 2000 of them onboard all running at the same time), really makes a difference when you are generating 40,000,000 watts of power for propulsion, and 8,000,000 watts of power for the hotel load. Even if every cabin had a 5-6" fan, drawing about 60 watts, that would be less than 0.25% of the electrical load.

Per the ADA, there is no required documentation for a service animal, and it is illegal to ask for it. I have seen quite a few toy breeds used for diabetic detection dogs, as they need to be carried in the owner's arms or a chest carrier to sniff the owner's breath. Given that about 1 in 10 US citizens are diabetic, and that number is growing, it wouldn't surprise me to see that all four animals were diabetic alert dogs. Not saying some of them might be fake, but it wouldn't be out of consideration. As per the ADA, there is no requirement to have a vest or any other form of identification on the animal that it is a service animal. Or, should they shame the owner by making a PA announcement that "so and so" has a small service dog, that alerts when the person is having a seizure or diabetic incident. I do not want to see dogs that are not service animals, or therapy dogs (as Viking's new policy specifically calls out), allowed onboard. However, to jump to conclusions based on the breed or size of the dog is discriminatory, without knowing what the disability the person has, which is not legal for Viking to ask about, nor is it the business of anyone onboard. PTSD dogs and other psychiatric therapy dogs are covered by the ADA, and can perform tasks that no one would think of as being done by a "true" service dog, and some that the larger, more "traditional" breeds would not be a good match for. It all comes down to what I think is the only real solution to this, and that is for the cruise lines, either individually, or as an industry via CLIA, to adopt a "Service Animal Code of Conduct" (as is allowed under Spector v NCL) and remove any animals, and their owners, that don't meet this code of conduct. I have said this for years now, on many forums on CC.

If you think that Viking is the outlier with regards to having "pets" onboard masquerading as service animals, you haven't read any of the other forums here on CC, as I have responded to threads about dogs in strollers, zebra striped poodles, and the like, on every single major (and some minor) cruise line forum. It is an industry wide problem (with cruises from the US), and stems from poor training of employees in the limits of the ADA.

I basically agree with you, Andy. But, triage would dictate whether or not a service animal made it into a lifeboat (and certainly not a raft), as my duty as On Scene Commander would be, as you say, to the humans first, and then only if there is aa whole lot of room would I allow a dog in the boat. The amount of frightened energy in a lifeboat from over a hundred non-mariners would send even the best trained service animal into a frenzy, and in an enclosed boat, that is not a good place to have a panicked dog.

Did I say that? What I said was that the USPH/CDC regulations are stricter than virtually any local/state health regulation in the US. This has been confirmed by the USPH inspectors themselves, most of whom were formerly state/local health inspectors prior to joining USPH.

That may be true for pools, but the turbulence in a hot tub accelerates the off-gassing. Realize that the cruise ships do not follow your local/state health regulations, but those of the CDC, so read the Vessel Sanitation Plan for the required tests and limits. Just a note, that the CDC did a study of several hundred land pools, and found that over 80% of them would fail the CDC's requirements, and about 70% of child splash areas would be immediately closed if subject to the CDC's requirements. Are public hot tubs appealing? Not to me personally. Are they safe? Yes.

What do you mean by "electronic adapters"? If the watch was damaged, that would be a fault in the charger, which is designed to stop high voltage from being sent to the watch, and unless you are talking about thousands of volts coming from the outlet, a properly functioning charger will not allow enough through to damage the watch. Yes, the want to inspect extensions/power strips for wear and tear, and for surge protection, but even if a surge protector fails, it won't send a high voltage to the electronics plugged into it, again unless it is thousands of volts. You do not see the voltage spikes of thousands of volts (caused by lightning or failed transformers) that happen on land, on a ship. It just physically cannot happen. Are you saying that the smart watch was damaged by being plugged into a surge protector?

What do you mean by "electronic adapters"? I would be very surprised that a smart watch charger let something through that would damage the watch, unless it was the charger itself that failed, and that would not necessarily be a fault of the ship's electrical supply. And, yes, they want to inspect extension cords or power strips for wear and tear and surge protectors, but even when a surge protector fails, it does not damage the "downstream" electronics.

Have you experienced this? Because voltage spikes on ships are extremely rare (almost never), due to the design of the power system. Which is why surge protectors, in addition to being dangerous on ships, are not needed, and none of the ship's electronics are protected by them.

Yes, but you don't need a passport for a closed loop cruise out of the US. And, I agree that the only information a cruise line would possibly have is to vet the passengers against a sex offender database, and that would be the only instance of being denied boarding. The passenger does risk being denied going ashore in a country when the ship gets there, or even being taken into custody and deported by the local government.

Combined chlorine, in the form of chloramines will off-gas to the atmosphere.

See post #61.

So, the evaporation lowers the total chlorine, and the measuring sensors and dosing pumps keep replenishing it, and you have a stable chlorine level. And, neither dpd or titration give a continuous reading, which the amperometric sensors used on ships do.

Depending on what kind of test strips are used, the pink coloration that determines chlorine level can get bleached out at high chlorine levels, so the strip appears to read zero. As for total chlorine level, it is interesting that home pool and hot tub manufacturers recommend a 1-3ppm level, while the USPH/CDC requires a 1-4ppm level for a pool, and a 3-10ppm level for a hot tub, and the CDC recommends this for all public hot tubs (though they have no jurisdiction over land hot tubs). https://www.cdc.gov/healthywater/swimming/aquatics-professionals/operating-public-hot-tubs.html

As I said, the maximum time between draining is 72 hours, per USPH/CDC regulation. Very typically, when the tub is full and covered with netting, they are allowing the "super-chlorination" to dissipate down to normal operating levels of chlorine, before allowing anyone in.

Actually, both NCL and RCI use DNV as their classification societies, so they must meet the exact same criteria for maintenance and structural integrity.

Chlorine generators are not approved by the USPH/CDC for use in cruise ship recreational water facilities, because they don't react to changes in bather load as quickly as the chlorine and pH meters and liquid dosing pumps do.

No, the sensors measure "residual" chlorine, which is the free chlorine level after the water comes back to the pump from the hot tub, and some of the chlorine has been used up in sanitizing. It is the amount of "free chlorine" that has not been used up. If there was 0ppm of residual chlorine, the ship would be in serious trouble at the next USPH inspection, as the recording charts are kept for a year for review.

Let's put out some facts about ship's hot tubs, both public and private. The hot tubs are kept at a constant chlorine level of 3-10ppm, much higher than the recommended 3ppm for home hot tubs. Further, it is maintained at this level constantly, since while the water is being recirculated, it passes a chlorine content meter, and the reading from this meter adjusts the chlorine dosing pump that runs all the time. The chlorine content of the hot tub is recorded on a chart, and is kept for review by the USPH, when they make their inspections. By regulation, the water in all hot tubs must be changed every 72 hours, but most lines do it nightly. When the hot tub is drained, it is washed with bleach, and then "super-chlorinated" to 20ppm, and circulated for one hour, before being diluted to normal, in order to remove any "bio-film" anywhere in the piping system. Any time there is a fecal accident, the hot tub must be drained and sanitized using 100ppm chlorine. Individual (cabin) hot tubs must be chlorinated to 10ppm, and circulated for 1 hour, between guests. One thing that can affect how well chlorine sanitizes the water is sunscreen. This forms an oily layer that coats the surface of the water, and restricts the chlorine's ability to react with the oxygen in the air, limiting the sanitizing reaction. This is why cruise ships are required to have showers on deck near pools and hot tubs, to rinse off sunscreen before going in the pools/tubs.

As I've said, the FAA changed the regulations from the CAA to restrict the types of animals that were to be considered as ESA for air travel. Since the ADA, which partially applies to cruise ships, does not allow protections for ESA in settings other than housing or air travel, it is only the fact that the cruise lines do not enforce the policies and procedures of the ADA that allow these dogs onboard. Even if the passenger comes up with a "task" that the dog is supposed to perform for them, if the dog does not meet the code of conduct, or the owner does things that affect the health and safety of others, they can be required to leave the ship, just as any business in the US can require a person to leave if the service animal disrupts the business, or misbehaves.

I will just say that this is apparently a commonly held misconception regarding service dogs. While 28CFR36.104 defines a service animal as one which does "work or tasks" for the benefit of an individual, and it has "tasks" pluralized. However, 28CFR36.302(c)(6) states that an accommodation may ask what "work or task" the animal is trained to perform, with "task" in the singular. And, in the DOJ Guidance document for the ADA, it explains that the dog: "must be trained to take a specific action" (bolding is mine, and indicates that a singular action is required under the DOJ interpretation of the law. And, further, if the dog does "work" for the benefit of the owner, it is not required to perform any tasks, though it is a little muddy as to what is "work" and what is a "task".

Unfortunately, this kind of behavior has been going on for quite some time on most cruise lines, and there have not been outbreaks of illness, and I think this would be quite a stretch to extend one or two dogs being fed (and I don't condone this) to an outbreak of illness.

The flag state is what governs while on the ship. The US ADA only applies in certain areas, as I said, in that if the cruise originates in the US, then things like whether or not there are accessible cabins, or whether all public areas are accessible, or whether a service animal is allowed or not, would apply, since they are acting as "common carriers" and also providing "accommodations". I would assume that the same would apply in the UK, for cruises originating in the UK. Even with the ADA, I know that Viking originally did not allow electric mobility scooters onboard, only wheelchairs (don't know the current policy). The reasoning for the SCOTUS ruling that "internal policies and procedures" of a foreign flag cruise ship do not need to meet the ADA, is based on the precedents of international law. How the UK handles this, I can't say, since their system is different than the US, and they may have different judicial precedents that handle things differently, or that interpret international law differently.

I don't believe I've posted regarding service animals on the Viking forum, so I'll try to answer some of the questions/observations that I see in this thread. First off, ESA's (emotional support animals) are not covered by the ADA, and so there is no requirement for a foreign flag cruise ship to allow them onboard. The only areas that ESA's are guaranteed protection, in the US, are the Equal Housing Act (provides protection for owners of ESA's in housing) and the Civil Aviation Act (though this has been recently restricted as to ESA's on aircraft). Per the ADA, the only place that a Service Animal should be is on the floor, or in the owner's arms (this allows for diabetes detection dogs to be close enough to sense the owner's breath for signs of keto acidosis). Next, there is no requirement in the US ADA for a service animal to have any identification (harness or vest) on it at any time. Why can cruise lines only ask two questions regarding service animals, while the airlines have restricted types of ESA's allowed? Because, as stated above, Service Animals are covered by the ADA, while ESA's are covered by the EHA and CAA, and the CAA has been amended or had the regulations changed by the agency involved. Regarding allergies, under the law of the ADA, the ability of a person to have a Service Animal trumps allergies, though the owner of the establishment should make as many concessions to those allergic as possible. Regarding the dog's toilet needs, this has been addressed by others, but the main point of contention is that Service Animals are (or should be) trained to only "go" on command, while ESA's and pets will typically "go" when the urge hits them. Per the ADA, there is no requirement for Service Animals to have any formal training, or certification, but there is a "code of conduct" that the ADA spells out, where if the Animal does not behave according to this code, the establishment can ask the owner to leave. Now, having said all that, regarding the ADA and Service Animals, everyone should understand that SCOTUS has ruled, in Spector v NCL, around 2005, that while foreign flag cruise ships must comply with the ADA in certain areas (such as not discriminating against the disabled, and requiring accessibility within certain limits), that the "internal policies and procedures" of the cruise ship with regards to accessibility (areas such as policies about where and how Service Animals are handled) is up to the cruise line, and do not have to follow ADA requirements. This was stated as being the case until Congress specifically mentions "foreign flag cruise ships" in the ADA, and in the intervening years, Congress has not acted to amend the ADA. Many of the "rights and protections" that US citizens take for granted in their everyday life, end once you walk up the gangway to a foreign flag cruise ship. So, know that you cannot complain to Viking about Service Animal behavior based on the ADA's "code of conduct", but given the lengthy description given in a previous post, there may be grounds for a complaint. Viking may need to adjust their terms as well, if they wish to more closely align with the ADA's code of conduct. Viking also needs to instruct their personnel that when a dog owning passenger presents their animal as a "Service Animal", the answer to the question, "what task does the animal provide for the owner", cannot be that the "mere presence of the animal" provides a service, as that is defined in the ADA as an ESA, and they are not granted protection under the ADA. Even PTSD Service Animals, whose main job is to calm the owner, must be shown to do certain "tasks" like blocking the person from walking into situations where the dog senses that the stress level will trigger a PTSD attack, or licking the owner to signal that the situation requires his/her attention to limit stress.

To answer the OP's question, no, the line has no responsibility, unless the passenger was injured on the ship. Whether or not the line will, voluntarily assist the passenger is something that is quite likely dependent on circumstances and location, as Heidi13 states above.