Spoke to P&O regarding their 40% increase in automatic gratuities.

Thanks for feeding back.

In reply to Eglebrech, The overall service was poor, certain areas of the ship were dirty and the staff morale was very low. Maybe it was because the ship had only returned to the UK that morning from the Caribbean and also because of an emergency they spent 8 days at sea instead of 3?

However having spoken to a couple of staff who we have known for many years (British), even they stated that things had changed for the worst and that the management would not listen to the front of house staff.

We were in the Horizon restaurant one morning in port and a well dressed gentleman walked past and went to the outside area and was inspecting something. We counted 7 officers following him at speed with clipboards. (Talk about 2 people needed to change a light bulb).

 

With larger ships joining the fleet since 2008 (Ventura) and another to join soon the company will be providing for the many and forgetting the loyal customers. They are reducing prices and attracting the younger generation of traveler who can now afford a cruise (and good luck to them as I wish everybody could do so) but standards are dropping.

 

The staff are so scared about their jobs they are constantly looking over their shoulders. They are now having to wait until the very end of their contract to establish if they are to return, and this puts even more pressure on them. It is such a shame that things don't run as smooth as they used too. Sorry P&O but it's time to listen to your staff & passengers. Maybe the CEO should appear on the American programme "Undercover Boss" and find out the real truth?

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Nice post very clear and with logically stated facts. I also wish the cruise lines would stop under paying crew and play the game of transferring those costs guest as gratuities. It is not about being cheap or not paying, it is about wanting to see the right thing done here. If anyone just wanted to be cheap remove the fees and tell no one, in fact even post in support of the fees.

Thank goodness for common sense !! I as beginning to think I was posting i a foreign language as not many seemed to understand what I was saying. Thank You.

So are we any nearer ? If the cruise companies and/or the staff don't think they are getting paid enough then they can increase the price of the cruise and we can choose to buy it or not.

If we choose to buy the product then can we please decide wether to give any extra in the form of a tip for any extra good service we receive ? SIMPLE !!

Well some of us thought it was simple others not sure.

Looks like a RESULT!

 

Had this from PO regarding that infamous letter

 

 

or is it the left hand not knowing what the right is doing?

Hope not.

 

Anyone had one since that first fatal batch?

Just returned from a very enjoyable cruise on Oceana.

No letters to be seen, we certainly didn't get one. :)

Just returned from a very enjoyable cruise on Oceana.

No letters to be seen, we certainly didn't get one. :)

Presume for the above that you stopped the auto tips and no letter left at your door for the world to see asking you to change your mind.

Result indeed if that is the case,

Presume for the above that you stopped the auto tips and no letter left at your door for the world to see asking you to change your mind.

 

Result indeed if that is the case,

Sorry should have been a little clearer.

Yes, stopped the auto tips but tipped individually as we have always done since we started cruising.

The crew members that we tipped appeared to be happy with that arrangement especially Rex our cabin steward who was brilliant.

Thank goodness for common sense !! I as beginning to think I was posting i a foreign language as not many seemed to understand what I was saying. Thank You.

 

So are we any nearer ? If the cruise companies and/or the staff don't think they are getting paid enough then they can increase the price of the cruise and we can choose to buy it or not.

If we choose to buy the product then can we please decide wether to give any extra in the form of a tip for any extra good service we receive ? SIMPLE !!

Well some of us thought it was simple others not sure.

Believe me Mary I think I understood exactly what you were saying and I really didn't think it was that you thought the gratuities should be included in the price of the cruise. I have been saying on this thread and the other thread that I want the gratuities included in the price of the cruise. You are certainly not the first on this forum to say that.

Believe me Mary I think I understood exactly what you were saying and I really didn't think it was that you thought the gratuities should be included in the price of the cruise. I have been saying on this thread and the other thread that I want the gratuities included in the price of the cruise. You are certainly not the first on this forum to say that.

Afternoon everyone. I love reading about gratuities on forums, always interesting to read other peoples reactions and points of view! So, here is mine. I know it'll never happen but what if P&O started at a base rate for auto tips at, for example £5, and then it was up to the passenger to raise or lower the amount as they see fit. P&O could set a minimum maybe so that it couldn't be zero. If you feel the staff really do go above and beyond then you can raise the amount as you see fit. In an ideal world you could do this on the in cabin tv so no waiting at reception unless you wanted to go back to tipping the old (and still much used) way.

I do agree that it would be useful to include the tips in the price or maybe somehow add them to the cruise personaliser to pay at a date before you sail.

Sam.

Fact is the crew don't receive all the money you pay. It goes somewhere. People will be amazed when they see the salary structure.

Did anyone ask P&O how they intend to distribute the money to the crew who are paid in $$$ now. Don't you think P&O is making money on exchange rate.

Sooner than later the beans will be spilled. Staff morale is at an all time low. Thanks to Paul Ludlow

P.s. Don't think guests should pay tips to supplement crew salary. It should be voluntary. P&O should pay a decent wage to all crew.

Fact is the crew don't receive all the money you pay. It goes somewhere. People will be amazed when they see the salary structure.

 

Did anyone ask P&O how they intend to distribute the money to the crew who are paid in $$$ now. Don't you think P&O is making money on exchange rate.

 

Sooner than later the beans will be spilled. Staff morale is at an all time low. Thanks to Paul Ludlow

 

P.s. Don't think guests should pay tips to supplement crew salary. It should be voluntary. P&O should pay a decent wage to all crew.

It has come out and keeps coming out. A crew member gave a statement to Jim Walker & Cruise Law News. I posted the statement but the mods said I need to post the link instead so here is the link to the blog the statement can be found at the end Updated:

Here is the link to that

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2017/04/articles/crew-member-rights-1/usa-today-takes-a-look-at-cruise-ship-gratuities/

It claims the cruise lines are diverting tips or service fees to pay mangers, like bar and Housing Keeping management, food and Beverage Management and others all getting a cut.

Now you can believe it or not your choice, but if true it gives a very powerful reason for cruise lines to push these charges. If you do a search of USA Today you will find several stories about tipping and questions about what really happens to these funds.

-

It has come out and keeps coming out. A crew member gave a statement to Jim Walker & Cruise Law News. I posted the statement but the mods said I need to post the link instead so here is the link to the blog the statement can be found at the end Updated:

Here is the link to that

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2017/04/articles/crew-member-rights-1/usa-today-takes-a-look-at-cruise-ship-gratuities/

It claims the cruise lines are diverting tips or service fees to pay mangers, like bar and Housing Keeping management, food and Beverage Management and others all getting a cut.

Now you can believe it or not your choice, but if true it gives a very powerful reason for cruise lines to push these charges. If you do a search of USA Today you will find several stories about tipping and questions about what really happens to these funds.

-

I read your link and I copied this from it. So do you still think it acceptable to remove the tips because it doesn't seem fair to the crew.

Between the greedy cruise executives and the miserly passengers who remove the gratuities, the hard working crew members seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Between the greedy cruise executives and the miserly passengers who remove gratuities, the hard-working crew members seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Between the greedy cruise executives and the miserly passengers who remove gratuities, the hard-working crew members seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.Between the greedy cruise executives and the miserly passengers who remove gratuities, the hard-working crew members seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I read your link and I copied this from it. So do you still think it acceptable to remove the tips because it doesn't seem fair to the crew.

 

Between the greedy cruise executives and the miserly passengers who remove the gratuities, the hard working crew members seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Between the greedy cruise executives and the miserly passengers who remove gratuities, the hard-working crew members seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

 

Between the greedy cruise executives and the miserly passengers who remove gratuities, the hard-working crew members seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.Between the greedy cruise executives and the miserly passengers who remove gratuities, the hard-working crew members seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

You still seem to think that those who remove tips are miserly. We remove tips, and tip accordingly. It may not be how you do it, please don’t judge others by what you do.

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It has come out and keeps coming out. A crew member gave a statement to Jim Walker & Cruise Law News. I posted the statement but the mods said I need to post the link instead so here is the link to the blog the statement can be found at the end Updated:

Here is the link to that

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2017/04/articles/crew-member-rights-1/usa-today-takes-a-look-at-cruise-ship-gratuities/

It claims the cruise lines are diverting tips or service fees to pay mangers, like bar and Housing Keeping management, food and Beverage Management and others all getting a cut.

Now you can believe it or not your choice, but if true it gives a very powerful reason for cruise lines to push these charges. If you do a search of USA Today you will find several stories about tipping and questions about what really happens to these funds.

-

The problem with this is that it is talking about US lines and not P&O. From everything which has been said on here P&O do things differently. For example they state clearly the people who benefit from auto tips. Back room staff are not involved.

This post, is another of those, designed to muddy the waters.

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I read your link and I copied this from it. So do you still think it acceptable to remove the tips because it doesn't seem fair to the crew.

 

Between the greedy cruise executives and the miserly passengers who remove the gratuities, the hard working crew members seem to be stuck between a rock and a hard place.the greedy cruise executives and.

Is it fair the crew happen to be born in a country which drives them to work long hours away from home to earn a good wage. Probably not, but that isn't the fault of the cruise companies.

As for the fare / pay system on cruises there are three options -

1. Carry on as now and pay the optional service charges.

As mentioned in the linked article, for NCL each $1 increase in service charge delivers $15,000,000 extra to NCL. With that sort of business opportunity cruise companies are not going to be reducing the service charge any time soon.

Sure some passengers will opt out and not pay, but the staff still get paid and the cruise company directors will continue to drink champagne on the profits.

2. Stop paying the optional service charge and tip the equivalent in cash.

The cruise company won't care as it still saves them paying the staff and they can continue to buy champagne from the money saved on the wage bill.

3. Stop paying the optional service charge and don't tip or pay a minimal tip.

Initially the cruise company won't care as they are not the ones losing out. The staff will be the ones suffering the reduced pay, but it won't be significant if few passengers are opting out.

The cruise company will care when sufficient customers stop paying as then staff will have a change of heart about signing up and working hard for a low basic pay which isn't made up by a large enough amount in bonuses from the tip pool. If it reaches a critical point the cruise company has to act and the only option is to either make it difficult to remove the service charge (as NCL did in the USA where you have to write in afterwards) or they will include the charge in the fare (as NCL did for UK and Europe customers).

However for P&O, there are customers in all three camps, some moving from 1 to 2, some from 2 to 1, some from 1 to 3 but no overall surge towards 3, and until there is the directors will continue to drink champagne with the staff taking the risk.

The problem with this is that it is talking about US lines and not P&O. From everything which has been said on here P&O do things differently. For example they state clearly the people who benefit from auto tips. Back room staff are not involved.

This post, is another of those, designed to muddy the waters.

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Sorry but not to muddy the waters but to show that the cruise lines may be lying about and what is really happening. You may choose to believe P & O when they say back room staff not included. I believe they may not be telling the truth.

I present the letters sent to cabins as detailed in this thread. First P & O said we don't do that, then it was all over Facebook showing yes they do, people here who have posted got the letters. After being caught red handed the letters seem to have stopped.

So P & O can makes claims but they have already been proven to be untruthful. I call your attention to what US legal system said about lying.

Federal District Court, Eastern District of Michigan:

"If a witness is shown knowingly to have testified falsely about any material matter, you have a right to distrust such witness' other testimony and you may reject all the testimony of that witness or give it such credibility as you may think it deserves."

Therefore P & O for the letters alone, has proven they should not be believed.

Afternoon everyone. I love reading about gratuities on forums, always interesting to read other peoples reactions and points of view! So, here is mine. I know it'll never happen but what if P&O started at a base rate for auto tips at, for example £5, and then it was up to the passenger to raise or lower the amount as they see fit. P&O could set a minimum maybe so that it couldn't be zero. If you feel the staff really do go above and beyond then you can raise the amount as you see fit. In an ideal world you could do this on the in cabin tv so no waiting at reception unless you wanted to go back to tipping the old (and still much used) way.

I do agree that it would be useful to include the tips in the price or maybe somehow add them to the cruise personaliser to pay at a date before you sail.

Sam.

If they could not be adjusted to zero then there is a compulsory element to it, once there is a compulsory element, then the price HAS to be reflected in the cruise price, if the contract is being enacted by any UK agent, by law.

You still seem to think that those who remove tips are miserly. We remove tips, and tip accordingly. It may not be how you do it, please don’t judge others by what you do.

 

 

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I didn't want to add that to my last comment, but yes, I agree that it does seem that on here and other forums there seems to be an opinion that if you remove the auto tips then it is assumed that you won't be tipping much or anything at all. I know there is a minority that this certainly will apply to but it is wrong to try and tar everyone with the same brush. At the end of the day is it really our business as to who opts out and why (unless they have already stated on a public forum ;))?

Sam.

If they could not be adjusted to zero then there is a compulsory element to it, once there is a compulsory element, then the price HAS to be reflected in the cruise price, if the contract is being enacted by any UK agent, by law.

I see what you are saying there. You could adjust it to zero but you would have to go to reception to do so like we do now. This would possibly just make the ques a bit shorter. One day they may decide to include tips in the fare, or even give you the option to include it in the fare. You never know :)

Sam.

I see what you are saying there. You could adjust it to zero but you would have to go to reception to do so like we do now. This would possibly just make the ques a bit shorter. One day they may decide to include tips in the fare, or even give you the option to include it in the fare. You never know :)

Sam.

Why make one go to reception and stand in a queue, it should be adjustable anyway on the TV.

They could certainly charge a MANDITORY service charge of £5 or whatever. That would then be regarded as the norm be most passengers. However if they wished to collect the maximum they could equally make this any figure they wished though what effect this would have on bookings is the whole point. We don’t know how many passengers book without any intention of paying any tips.

DAVID

They could certainly charge a MANDITORY service charge of £5 or whatever.

They cannot.

If they charges a mandatory service charge it becomes part of the fare and has to be included in the headline price. At that stage it stops being a service charge.

You still seem to think that those who remove tips are miserly. We remove tips, and tip accordingly. It may not be how you do it, please don’t judge others by what you do.

 

 

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Not my words. I copied it from the link provided by EXPAT.

I didn't want to add that to my last comment, but yes, I agree that it does seem that on here and other forums there seems to be an opinion that if you remove the auto tips then it is assumed that you won't be tipping much or anything at all. I know there is a minority that this certainly will apply to but it is wrong to try and tar everyone with the same brush. At the end of the day is it really our business as to who opts out and why (unless they have already stated on a public forum ;))?

Sam.

If you read the link from EXPAT you will see they were NOT my words. That was the opinion of the person who wrote the article. I do not assume that all people who remove the gratuities pay nothing.

I didn't want to add that to my last comment, but yes, I agree that it does seem that on here and other forums there seems to be an opinion that if you remove the auto tips then it is assumed that you won't be tipping much or anything at all. I know there is a minority that this certainly will apply to but it is wrong to try and tar everyone with the same brush. At the end of the day is it really our business as to who opts out and why (unless they have already stated on a public forum ;))?

Sam.

Agreed:)

Sorry but not to muddy the waters but to show that the cruise lines may be lying about and what is really happening. You may choose to believe P & O when they say back room staff not included. I believe they may not be telling the truth.

 

 

 

I present the letters sent to cabins as detailed in this thread. First P & O said we don't do that, then it was all over Facebook showing yes they do, people here who have posted got the letters. After being caught red handed the letters seem to have stopped.

 

 

 

So P & O can makes claims but they have already been proven to be untruthful. I call your attention to what US legal system said about lying.

 

 

 

Federal District Court, Eastern District of Michigan:

 

 

 

"If a witness is shown knowingly to have testified falsely about any material matter, you have a right to distrust such witness' other testimony and you may reject all the testimony of that witness or give it such credibility as you may think it deserves."

 

 

 

Therefore P & O for the letters alone, has proven they should not be believed.

Rubbish.

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