Passport???????

[sail7seas]

Do the Chinese (who travel) have such a problem re: Passports? What about Russians. By no means, 'small' countries.

 

Actually, that's a silly question as it really doesn't matter why Americans who travel don't want to get a Passport, all that matters is that they do it.

 

My doctor once said to me that I didn't have to like using the treadmill, I just have to do it. :)

 

[Annieeee]

Ok so my question is : Why are so many people so concerned about others having or not having a passport? Does it have an impact on your travel if others do not have a passport? Just wondering. I have mine and I really don't worry or care if the person next to me has one or not and it has yet to have any impact on my travels if they have one or not. It is their choice.

 

 

 

Annieeee

[Essiesmom]

I was thrilled when I got my first passport. It meant I was a citizen of the world, and could travel abroad (if I could afford it). On my first cruises, I don't believe we were required to have proof of citizenship, not even picture ID...we are talking early 1970s. But I calmly showed my passport on reentry into the US, while friends from the cruise were gently admonished that it was a good idea to carry ID. EM

[Donray]

If you look at the OPs other post, he does have a passport. Could not have been doing what they say they have done wothout one.

 

I don't understand why people don't get a passport. Without one it limits your vacations alot.

[cruisemom42]

I suppose it'll take a change in geography. America will have to shrink to the size of a couple states, which will mean that we'll cross borders more frequently.

 

We can drive from state to state freely, and proving our citizenship isn't a necessity. I live in the most populous portion of the country. If I got into my car right now and started driving north, it would take me 14 hours and 37 minutes to reach Canada (I just checked it on MapQuest). If I started driving south, I would hit the Mexican border in 21 hours and 15 minutes. If I headed west, it would take me 39 hours to hit the Pacific ocean (and I couldn't reach another country). Most Americans are in a situation similar to mine: They are far from the borders of another country, and -- unlike our European friends who live in countries smaller than many of our states -- most Americans aren't able to drive over to another country for a weekend, or make a long shopping trip to another country. Since our borders are far and wide, our mentality is different. EVERYWHERE we can go on a quick-and-easy basis is "home", and we don't need to prove ourselves here.

 

For people who travel frequently for work, or people who are able to travel often for leisure, the $100 fee is sensible. For the average American who'll perhaps go out of the country once in the ten years that passport is valid, the $100 fee is high. I don't think Americans are afraid of passports; many are unwilling to pay $100 for an item that will be used infrequently, especially not when a free alternative exists (I assume everyone has a birth certificate in his or her file cabinet; otherwise, how'd you get a driver's license?). You're aware, aren't you, that MANY Americans never leave American soil in their whole lives, and MOST will leave the country only a few times in their whole lives. It's a result of living in a country almost the size of a continent. I know quite a few adults who've never been on an airplane. I know a few adults who've never been farther from home than the states that border our own. People who travel extensivly beyond our borders aren't a large group.

 

I was intrigued by your post (as I don't think I know anyone that hasn't traveled by airplane!), so I did a little online research:

 

Turns out there are no "official" numbers out there, but several reputable sources estimate that somewhere between 18 and 22% of US adults own a passport. Interestingly, figures also show that about 19-20% of Americans travel outside the country in any given year.

 

Given this, it would appear that most US citizens who need passports do get them. IMO, the very low percentage of people who go on a closed-loop cruise and do not obtain a passport are probably not worth worrying about.

 

As an aside, I did find a good statistic for Canadians -- by comparison, about 40% of Canadians have passports. Since Canada is a large country like the US where you can also travel within the country pretty easily and people are comparably affluent, it would seem to be true that Americans are more averse to getting passports (and/or to traveling internationally) than people in some other countries....

[uppitycats]

Some Americans refuse to get a passport because they equate getting a passport with "big brother federal government intruding in my personal affairs". Seems to me this is the mentality of the OP when he talks about the US "selling out to lobbyists" or whatever other comments like that, that he made. Of course everything that is printed on a passport is public knowledge, available through simple internet searches, but it's just all in one convenient place. I think the world is shrinking. We are by no means affluent, but we've managed to travel to the Philippines and Canada several times...and are planning a trip to Norway in the Spring (now there's a budget breaker! Norway is expensive!). The figures that someone quoted, around 20% of Americans have passports, seems low to me..although expressed as "1 out of 5", maybe that's not so bad. I do think those numbers will rise, as we become increasingly more global in our world view, here in the US.

[greatam]

IMHO, Americans just aren't very adventurous when it comes to international travel. I travel a lot internationally in pursuit of my business (international logistics). I hit some pretty weird/exotic? places. I constantly run into Aussies and Kiwis no matter where I am. Australia is not a small country, but Aussies seem to always be traveling to the Orient, Fiji, other Pacific islands, etc. They travel A LOT. I run into Europeans quite a few places. I RARELY run into Americans (other than a few 20 something backpackers) except around cruise ports and in Europe. I am always surprised when I find an American "off the beaten path".

 

I just closed escrow on a hotel in Phnom Penh Cambodia I purchased, renovated, opened for business in February 2009 and sold in August 2009 (too much hassle with the Cambodian government for an American). I was truly astounded how few Americans ever went to Cambodia, even though it is a relatively cheap destination and tourists are welcomed with open arms. We had high occupancy (over 85%) from the day it opened. US citizen occupancy was less than 9%.

[MrsPete]

Turns out there are no "official" numbers out there, but several reputable sources estimate that somewhere between 18 and 22% of US adults own a passport. Interestingly, figures also show that about 19-20% of Americans travel outside the country in any given year.

In the circles in which I move, there's no way that one person out of five travels outside the US each year, and I'm pretty much middle-middle America. On the other hand, I do know a small number of people who travel ALL THE TIME for work, perhaps as much as two weeks out of every three.

 

I suspect that these statistics didn't measure how many times each individual American left the country; instead, they measured how many tickets were sold for out-of-country flights. If the same person flew 20 times for business, these stats would measure that as 20 people leaving the country.

 

Mark Twain said there are three types of lies: Lies of omission, lies of commission, and statistics. It is very easy to be misled by them.

As an aside, I did find a good statistic for Canadians -- by comparison, about 40% of Canadians have passports. Since Canada is a large country like the US where you can also travel within the country pretty easily and people are comparably affluent, it would seem to be true that Americans are more averse to getting passports (and/or to traveling internationally) than people in some other countries....

It might also have to do with the fact that so many Canadian cities are located within an hour or so's drive of the US border. The majority of Canadians can reasonably pop over to US cities to shop, eat, or visit American doctors. American cities, probably because of the milder climate, are more evenly divided across the country; the result, of course, is that while the land masses may be similar in size, the population divisions are nothing alike.

 

I still maintain that the $100 cost for an item that is likely to be used only rarely is the chief reason people resist getting passports.

[MrsPete]

Do the Chinese (who travel) have such a problem re: Passports? What about Russians. By no means, 'small' countries.

I'd be interested to know whether the average person in those countries has the means with which to travel. I'd also be interested in how much a passport (or their national equivalent) costs and whether they're required to show those documents it in their daily lives.

 

I'd be interested to know what Europeans, who probably travel from country to country much more than the rest of the world, pay for their national IDs.

Some Americans refuse to get a passport because they equate getting a passport with "big brother federal government intruding in my personal affairs".

I really don't think that's it. I mean, do you know anyone who refuses to get a driver's license? That's not a whole lot different. It puts you into a data bank, and it gives the government a glimpse into your life and habits. Yes, it's state, not federal, but I don't see a great deal of difference there. The branches of government can share information anytime.

 

Let's think this through: Why do Americans NOT mind getting a driver's license, but they do mind the passport?

 

The license is a necessity in everyday life; people tend to be asked for it a couple times a week. Even my 96-year old grandmother, who can no longer drive, has a state-issued license-like ID. It's your go-to ID for making purchases with a credit card or check. In addition to being inconvenient, NOT having it could get you in trouble with the police. There is no reasonable substitute for a driver's license. And -- in my mind, this is the big deal -- it only costs $15 for five years (at least in my state; it might vary).

 

The passport, on the other hand, is useful for non-business travlers only every couple years. It isn't accepted everywhere; in fact, the DMV in my state specifically doesn't accept a passport alone as ID (yet they do accept Social Security cards, which doesn't make much sense, but that's off-topic). If you don't have a passport, you can still travel to certain places with a birth certificate and a driver's license; this reasonable substitute costs ZERO. The passport costs $100.

 

It's very clear to me that the two obstacles are MONEY and NECESSITY. If you have a family and your choice is to spend ZERO to take your birth certificates or spend $100 PER PERSON to obtain documents that'll sit in the drawer for much of its ten-year tenure . . . it's awfully hard to justify an expense that could easily be almost equal to a month's grocery bill. Most people wouldn't quaff at buying a passport if it were a necessity in everyday life (after all, we plunk down $100 or more for cell phones and other oft-used items, and we don't bat an eye at the expense), but we don't much like buying things that don't get used on a regular basis.

[EJNutz]

I'd be interested to know what Europeans, who probably travel from country to country much more than the rest of the world, pay for their national IDs.I really don't think that's it. I mean, do you know anyone who refuses to get a driver's license? That's not a whole lot different. It puts you into a data bank, and it gives the government a glimpse into your life and habits. Yes, it's state, not federal, but I don't see a great deal of difference there. The branches of government can share information anytime.

 

 

In the UK we do not have National ID's yet. However the cost of a passport is £77.50.

[sail7seas]

I'd be interested to know whether the average person in those countries has the means with which to travel. I'd also be interested in how much a passport (or their national equivalent) costs and whether they're required to show those documents it in their daily lives.

 

I'd be interested to know what Europeans, who probably travel from country to country much more than the rest of the world, pay for their national IDs.I really don't think that's it. I mean, do you know anyone who refuses to get a driver's license? That's not a whole lot different. It puts you into a data bank, and it gives the government a glimpse into your life and habits. Yes, it's state, not federal, but I don't see a great deal of difference there. The branches of government can share information anytime.

 

Let's think this through: Why do Americans NOT mind getting a driver's license, but they do mind the passport?

 

The license is a necessity in everyday life; people tend to be asked for it a couple times a week. Even my 96-year old grandmother, who can no longer drive, has a state-issued license-like ID. It's your go-to ID for making purchases with a credit card or check. In addition to being inconvenient, NOT having it could get you in trouble with the police. There is no reasonable substitute for a driver's license. And -- in my mind, this is the big deal -- it only costs $15 for five years (at least in my state; it might vary).

 

The passport, on the other hand, is useful for non-business travlers only every couple years. It isn't accepted everywhere; in fact, the DMV in my state specifically doesn't accept a passport alone as ID (yet they do accept Social Security cards, which doesn't make much sense, but that's off-topic). If you don't have a passport, you can still travel to certain places with a birth certificate and a driver's license; this reasonable substitute costs ZERO. The passport costs $100.

 

It's very clear to me that the two obstacles are MONEY and NECESSITY. If you have a family and your choice is to spend ZERO to take your birth certificates or spend $100 PER PERSON to obtain documents that'll sit in the drawer for much of its ten-year tenure . . . it's awfully hard to justify an expense that could easily be almost equal to a month's grocery bill. Most people wouldn't quaff at buying a passport if it were a necessity in everyday life (after all, we plunk down $100 or more for cell phones and other oft-used items, and we don't bat an eye at the expense), but we don't much like buying things that don't get used on a regular basis.

 

 

 

Mrs. Pete: :confused: A U.S. Passport amortizes to $10 per year. It costs $100 and it is good for ten years.

[greatam]

I'd be interested to know whether the average person in those countries has the means with which to travel. I'd also be interested in how much a passport (or their national equivalent) costs and whether they're required to show those documents it in their daily lives.

 

The new middle class of China travels frequently to Hong Kong, Vietnam, Cambodia. And Chinese usually need visas in addition to passport to visit quite a few countries. There is a lot of wealth in Russia, even in the middle classes. In fact, my next to last trip to Bangkok (March/April), I was on a river raft hotel/river boat trip on the River Kwai and other than DH, myself, the guides and the boat operator, the ENTIRE boat was filled with Russians (about 40 people, including quite a few kids). I spoke to a few of them-they all said they traveled at least twice a year out of Russia.

 

 

The license is a necessity in everyday life; people tend to be asked for it a couple times a week.

 

A license is only necessary if you drive. A passport works all over the world (including the USA) for ID for cashing checks, using credit cards. Try cashing a check or using your credit card in most foreign countries WITHOUT a passport. It is also the ONLY single form of ID acceptable to the US government if you get a new job and have to fill out the I-9 form. Otherwise, you have to produce two forms of ID-SS + DL, birth certificate + DL, etc. etc. Clearance through TSA lines is about twice as fast with a passport, due to all the differences in DL. Some states still have licenses outstanding that do not have pictures on them. Hence, the big Federal push for "real ID". Talk about Big Brother!!!! And try to go get a new replacement SS card-the FIRST positive piece of ID they take is a passport. Look it up on their website. 1) Passport 2)BC/DL + about 4 forms of supplemental ID

 

 

And -- in my mind, this is the big deal -- it only costs $15 for five years (at least in my state; it might vary).

 

A six year license in Missouri is $45.00. An Arizona license is a graduated scale, as licenses are good until age 65. The most expensive is $85.00, good for age 21-65. But it is $50.00 for those 40-65. Large differences in the price of licenses nationwide.

 

but we don't much like buying things that don't get used on a regular basis.

 

Americans just don't travel much outside their own country. But I am a firm believer that anyone leaving USA soil should have a passport. A wealth of benefits from the US State Dept outside the US for US passport holders.

[RKinNC]

I have my passport so it does not matter either way to me. Some people do not want a passport because they will never take a cruise again and will not fly so they will never leave the country. It is a one time shot. So it is then $100 (it does not matter if you amortize over 10 years) For those that say you should not be cruising if you can not afford the passport, it must be nice to judge everyone. I actually won a cruise. Since I have been on several myself, I decided to take a shorter cruise so that I could share the free cruise with my family. They are saving for their spending money but do not want to get passports as this is the only time they will cruise. They normally do not go on big vacations but are excited to go on a cruise.

[Leafpeeper]

Please read my post on "annoying immigration regs". My poor BIL is probably not going to be able to take a oneway cruise from Seattle to Vancouver because of delays from the DMV for his enhanced drivers license. A passport would have cost more than his one night cruise but it would have been easier than the enchanced drivers license process he is going thru.

[C. Anne]

So, how long does it take to get a passport? I'm afraid to send my BC off and not get it back for a cruise that is in 6 weeks.

 

C.Anne

[Shorex]

So, how long does it take to get a passport? I'm afraid to send my BC off and not get it back for a cruise that is in 6 weeks.

 

C.Anne

 

If you decide to try for the passport -- then at the same time get another official copy of your birth certificate as back up. Most states let you order online. VitalChek expedites the birth certificate process for many states -- or just google vital statistics (your birth state) for instructions. Can't hurt to have an extra BC.

[uppitycats]

So, how long does it take to get a passport? I'm afraid to send my BC off and not get it back for a cruise that is in 6 weeks.

 

C.Anne

 

The "average" time seems to be around 3 weeks. But the longer you postpone sending it off, the less time you'll have to get it back.

 

You CAN easily get a second copy of your birth certificate -- a certified copy-- so you can do that too, and then have a backup if you need it.

[skf]

Ok so my question is : Why are so many people so concerned about others having or not having a passport? Does it have an impact on your travel if others do not have a passport? Just wondering. I have mine and I really don't worry or care if the person next to me has one or not and it has yet to have any impact on my travels if they have one or not. It is their choice.

 

 

 

Annieeee

Our advice is not for the OP; rather, for they who would be ill-served by taking his poor advice.

 

We just got back from Diamond Princess' 22 days to Alaska & Asia. Our passports were held in the ship & a photocopy of the signature/picture pages issued w/ clear instructions to carry it to leave the ship in Russia & China. Even so, dozens of people did not have theirs ready or even have it at all, & had to go back to get it, because the Immigration Officers barred their way.

Steve

[Cactuscruise]

if you believe you need a passport for an ordinary cruise think again

go to the Dept of State site read "Closed Loop" cruises, again the U S govt has sold out to the highest bidder or lobbyist NOTHING has changed grab your birth cert and drivers license and go cruising

or waste your money for a passport that you do not need for a cruise.

 

Whether you're going on a cruise or not, a passport is the very best identification you can have. Conspiracy theories be damned. As a US citizen I have been traveing to foreign countires since I was 11, I wouldn't dream of leaving the US, on any mode of transportation without my passport. It's just common sense. I still don't get the reluctance of Americans to get a passport.

[MrsPete]

Mrs. Pete: A U.S. Passport amortizes to $10 per year. It costs $100 and it is good for ten years.

That's kind of cheating. You can't pay $10/year for a passport. You have to pay the whole $100 at once . . . and for most of us, that's going to be $100/family member, so it's actually more.

 

Saying that it's "only" $10/year is a way of justifying a large expense that you can avoid.

[MrsPete]

A license is only necessary if you drive. A passport works all over the world (including the USA) for ID for cashing checks, using credit cards. Try cashing a check or using your credit card in most foreign countries WITHOUT a passport. It is also the ONLY single form of ID acceptable to the US government if you get a new job and have to fill out the I-9 form. Otherwise, you have to produce two forms of ID-SS + DL, birth certificate + DL, etc. etc. Clearance through TSA lines is about twice as fast with a passport, due to all the differences in DL. Some states still have licenses outstanding that do not have pictures on them. Hence, the big Federal push for "real ID". Talk about Big Brother!!!! And try to go get a new replacement SS card-the FIRST positive piece of ID they take is a passport. Look it up on their website. 1) Passport 2)BC/DL + about 4 forms of supplemental ID.

And yet the driver's license is still the standard ID used within American borders -- as long as that's true, it's going to be the one that's used by most people. As long as people have ONE GOOD ID that's useful for almost every situation, they're going to resist spending $100 on a SECOND ID, especially since it's useful only when traveling outside the country.

 

It's also interesting to note that in NC a passport alone is NOT considered "enough" to get yourself a driver's license. When I was at the DMV waiting (foolishly I waited 'til the last minute and was forced to sit there waiting and waiting and waiting) I overheard a teenaged boy being sent away because he had ONLY a passport.

 

I think it would be wise for America to go to a NATIONAL driver's license, which would be able to cover all ID needs.

A six year license in Missouri is $45.00. An Arizona license is a graduated scale, as licenses are good until age 65. The most expensive is $85.00, good for age 21-65. But it is $50.00 for those 40-65. Large differences in the price of licenses nationwide.

Wow, I'm amazed at these high prices. But they don't change anything. Most of us MUST HAVE a driver's license; it would be extremely cumbersome for most of us to do without it. Whether we pay $10 or $85 for that driver's license, we HAVE TO HAVE IT, so we pay it. The passport -- for cruising -- is an OPTION. Most of us don't pay $100 for optional items.

Americans just don't travel much outside their own country. But I am a firm believer that anyone leaving USA soil should have a passport. A wealth of benefits from the US State Dept outside the US for US passport holders.

I firmly believe that you can't make a blanket statement about "everyone should buy a passport". People who are going to travel frequently certainly need one (and that's why I have one). People who expect to cruise once or twice during their lifetime could spend that $100 more wisely in another place.

 

I do not believe that the average person should buy a passport out of fear that he might need to fly home because of an emergency. This is, of course, a possibility, but that possibility is so remote that I can't see paying $100 per family member "just in case".

[sail7seas]

And yet the driver's license is still the standard ID used within American borders -- as long as that's true, it's going to be the one that's used by most people. As long as people have ONE GOOD ID that's useful for almost every situation, they're going to resist spending $100 on a SECOND ID, especially since it's useful only when traveling outside the country.

 

It's also interesting to note that in NC a passport alone is NOT considered "enough" to get yourself a driver's license. When I was at the DMV waiting (foolishly I waited 'til the last minute and was forced to sit there waiting and waiting and waiting) I overheard a teenaged boy being sent away because he had ONLY a passport.

 

I think it would be wise for America to go to a NATIONAL driver's license, which would be able to cover all ID needs.

 

 

U.S. does not determine what other countries require to enable entry through their borders. Every country in the world recognizes passports as the world's offical ID. We in the U.S. do not tell anyone else what they require.

[RetireeWannabee]

...I wouldn't dream of leaving the US, on any mode of transportation without my passport.

ditto.

 

that includes a flight to Hawaii, since I have to leave the US to get to the US and sometimes planes get diverted.

[skf]

I have said this before...New Hampshire's legislature forbids use of the proposed Real ID drivers licenses. When/if the Federal program goes into effect we will need passports to fly anywhere.

[mapsmith]

<Rant>

 

 

I still do not understand the reluctance of we Americans (and particularly our State Legislators) to the Idea of the Real ID Drivers Licenses. Doesn't 95% of the adult population currently have a Drivers License or State ID. And have not most of the Legislatures that oppose the Real ID, require a State Issued Photo ID to Vote.

 

It seems like the best idea would be to implement the REAL ID nationwide for travel (air and Train) and for voting.

 

Here in Arizona, we have had our Legislature block the use of Real ID. But we must have State issued Photo Id to Vote. And we must also now have either a Passport Card or Passport to travel to Mexico and Back.

 

<further rant> The Passport Card is ridiculous. It can only be used for Border Crossings by land or Sea, not for Air. It has all of the requirements for REAL ID. But is a "Passport Lite". If one plans to travel by air, train, or sea across National Borders, then a Passport is a must.

 

<Still more rant> Don't give me the C**p about Closed Loop Cruises. That has been set up to appease the Cruise Lines. Do you really think that it will continue indefinitely? Particularly when you now must have either the Card or Book to cross the border by land?

 

Get a Passport Book, you never know when you will win a trip to Italy or China from the local Walmart. :)

 

 

<rant over>