Cruise Tipping: Is It Time for Royal Caribbean to Ditch Its System?

[luckyprincess]

But RCCL UK uses the different laws when it suits them.

 

Examples-

Cancel cruise in UK-lose deposit-UK laws.

Credit card-No,different laws so cant have it.

Drinking laws- UK laws.

Smoking policy-UK laws.

Charges for changes to bookings-UK(& Europe)only policy

Wow Sale-no

Residents discount-no

 

RCCL UK have known since the spring of 2007 that there was a problem with tipping on ships leaving from Southampton. But that didnt stop them wanting to have bigger ships here...and from spring 2010 the Indy will be here all year round.

How they are going to fill her all year, I dont know...oh yea...selling to folks who havent a clue about price drops, discounts, OBC, cruise boards, tipping etc etc.

It's not fair that you don't enjoy the same benefits and price reductions as other countries. Is it RCCL or laws in the UK? I have no clue but am curious.

I would assume they will just add mandatory grats to all cruises now. Although, if they do that they should do it everywhere, not just the UK.

[temple1]

It's not fair that you don't enjoy the same benefits and price reductions as other countries. Is it RCCL or laws in the UK? I have no clue but am curious.

I would assume they will just add mandatory grats to all cruises now. Although, if they do that they should do it everywhere, not just the UK.

 

I think some of the differences are based on British laws and TA rules and still others are RCCL Great Britain.

 

I completely agree, if the change is made it should be fleetwide. We are seeing more and more posters of all nationalities ask about not tipping the MDR staff. Plus the ever popular, I tip for services received.

[Elizanessie]

It's not fair that you don't enjoy the same benefits and price reductions as other countries. Is it RCCL or laws in the UK? I have no clue but am curious.

I would assume they will just add mandatory grats to all cruises now. Although, if they do that they should do it everywhere, not just the UK.

 

RCCL always say it is UK consumer laws that govern our booking conditions etc, like the lose deposit if cancel rule but I dont know for sure.

 

Cultural differences is another of their favourite reasons/excuses.

 

I doubt very much that if they do change the tipping policy that if will go fleetwide. If this was RCCL's intention it wouldn't have been Robin speaking about it, it would have been someone from Miami.

[MrPete]

Been going to AI's in the Catskills since 1959 (in fact, I'm there right now), and have always tipped the help at the end of the week. Starting cruising in 1988, I saw no difference, and started doing the same.

 

I'm not sure why it has all of a sudden become an issue.

[Cuizer2]

But RCCL UK uses the different laws when it suits them.

 

Examples-

Cancel cruise in UK-lose deposit-UK laws.

Credit card-No,different laws so cant have it.

Drinking laws- UK laws.

Smoking policy-UK laws.

Charges for changes to bookings-UK(& Europe)only policy

Wow Sale-no

Residents discount-no

 

RCCL UK have known since the spring of 2007 that there was a problem with tipping on ships leaving from Southampton. But that didnt stop them wanting to have bigger ships here...and from spring 2010 the Indy will be here all year round.

How they are going to fill her all year, I dont know...oh yea...selling to folks who havent a clue about price drops, discounts, OBC, cruise boards, tipping etc etc.

 

You are mixing apples and oranges, or in this case employees and passengers. The consumer laws apply to the passengers, not to the employees. It is the same in the US. The ships are forced to comply with US laws regarding the passengers. However, the employees are treated differently.

[Elizanessie]

You are mixing apples and oranges, or in this case employees and passengers. The consumer laws apply to the passengers, not to the employees. It is the same in the US. The ships are forced to comply with US laws regarding the passengers. However, the employees are treated differently.

 

I was pointing out how UK laws are different....I wasnt comparing apples to oranges.

 

I have no wish to take part in a tipping debate...I am only commenting on RCCL UK works differently from RCCL in the US.

[spongerob]

I was pointing out how UK laws are different....I wasnt comparing apples to oranges.

 

I have no wish to take part in a tipping debate...I am only commenting on RCCL UK works differently from RCCL in the US.

Fair enough, but realize that as often as we hear complaints about the cost of cruises for UK passengers versus American, we hear criticism of the cruise lines. It's EXACTLY the same for RC as it is for Princess. Some people use the price issue to avoid tipping, but when it's the laws of your own country that are to blame, isn't the reaction a bit mis-directed?

[smeyer418]

a number of additional points.

 

What consumer law applies is based on the country of residence of the guest if the cruise line allows those people to purchase cruises.

 

The main reason that Europeans(not just the British) pay more is in fact they have more consumer protection if ports are missed. In fact some cruise lines even though the cruise lasted the agreed 8 days but didn't stop where originally scheduled still had to give a full refund. The Consumer protection rules for the common market countries requires this-although not the same full rules apply in each country(I am not sure why). So if the company may still have to supply the service and refund they charge more to cover that eventuality(there are some exceptions to having to reimburse-I just don't know what they are but mechanical breakdown is NOT an accepted excuse). These things are always passed on to the customer. So you pay more for this and other reasons as well. Most cruise lines require UK's and Europeans to buy insurance as well.

These rules also allow for increased costs to be passed on as long as it doesn't exceed a certain amount-normally 10% of the fare sometimes you see a 9.16% increase and people complain and if they then cancel they lose the deposit. The same rules that require consumer protection allow the cruise line to keep the deposit once the booking is made and if the passenger then at anytime cancels(not as in the US where the deposit is refundable until a certain time before the sailings). While some of these may be convention or cruise line rules most are in the consumer protection for EC market countries.

 

US rules for consumer protection for cruising passengers are almost non-existent. You know capitalism at its finest. The only two major consumer protections is if the ship leaves from the US the ship can't disclaim liability for its or its employees negligence that causes physical injury and they have to put up a bond in case they go bankrupt(but they can make you sue in a state the cruise line picks-mostly Florida- Princess chose California). Every once in a while the Florida attorney general(an elected office) goes after the cruise lines when they do something he doesn't like. He went after the cruise lines when they tried to retroactively put fuel charges on(at least one cruise line only applied it prospectively for people who booked after a certain date. {As long as it did not exceed the 10% it would be ok to impose it on you Europeans} but they really don't do too much to protect US consumers).

 

The same rule actually applies to the insurance sold to US residence. the company selling it must be licensed in the state the guest resides. Even most of the cruise lines have contracts with insurers that are licensed in every state.

 

Tipping has been less of a problem in the past when the ships mostly sailed the Caribbean. 90% of the guest were from the US then and understood these rules well and tipped. As cruising has become more world wide, it has become more of an issue(even in the US as the attempt was made to mass market it to new people). The second most cruising country is the United Kingdom. The numbers I have seen recently show about 65% US now 20% or so from the UK and the rest 15% from other places(Canada Australia, Continental Europe-a few from Asia but not many).

 

Any land vacation you take will tell you that US tourists are generally the most generous with the UK, Canadians and Germans notoriously---hmmm how can I say this nicely---cheap. Its the reason the touts in places like Turkey and Egypt ask you were you are from. We from the US get a higher first price.( I know this for a fact I asked in Turkey how do I know they were telling the truth- its simple. they asked where we from I said New York- he asked if I know Brooklyn- I said yes{I live in Brooklyn} he asked if I know Atlantic Avenue- I said yes{its three Blocks from my house}. He asked if I know a store name Pomegranate- my wife said yes - its around the corner on Atlantic Avenue from where she works...and he said "that is my brother's store". I didn't buy anything that night but we would go back there to watch him sell to others. He told us what to see and how to do it. I asked why he asked where we were from and he told me the above. He and I have stayed in contact over the years as he comes to visit and sell new things. I also asked in Egypt and I was told the same thing. They start as much as 50% more for Americans who are in general not adept at bargaining.- and are generous( You know the Marshall Plan I hope)

 

It has become a problem as more non US people travel and have refused to follow the convention of tipping- the employees complain( I would too). Its especially true on free style type cruises where you eat many different places when you want(I know people think I am talking about NCL but Oceania, most of the high end lines have their version of this and have the same problem.) Its less of a problem for the room stewards but many ships now use a team approach to cleaning the rooms as well.

[sidari]

smeyer418 ..... I read your post and noted some interesting points, one being in regard to Consumer Protection for missed ports! .... last November on the Ruby princess we missed Grand Cayman .... those from the USA and Canada were refunded the Port charges to their Onboard accounts, it was only after returning home that we found out about it from a friend in Canada. It took a good few months before Princess admitted that this had been done and finally Refunded our missed port charges x 10 people as OBC for a next cruise.

 

With regard to those from the USA being charged an extra 50% is that not down to the fact that they know that you will pay it (not you personally) and the likes of Europeans will not unless they feel the cost is reasonable and Fair and know when to walk away when they feel they are being ripped off, and has nothing to do with those people being cheapskates.

 

Maybe it is time for Employment law in the USA to mirror the UK and make tips illegal as part of a persons Basic wage? .... tips could still be given for good service.

[JTJ]

I ran into our waiter from the FOS yesterday at WM and while in line we started talking about tips. I mentioned about him spending all the tip money.

 

He said something I've never heard. He said the ship takes 5% of the collected tips for an admin fee. He also said there are rumors of it going up to 10%.

[sidari]

Forgot to Add that 1.55 million people this year from the UK will have cruised by December and that figure is set to Increase next year by another 100,000, while this may be low in comparison to the USA it is the Biggest holiday sector increase.

[masterbaker]

The reason we have sailed so many more RCI cruises than other lines is because of the service level onboard. I think that if RCI changes the tipping procedure that service will suffer. Employees working for a salary are not as motivated as employess working for tips or commissions. Motivation is extremely important in service jobs.

[bobsfamily]

Has anyone ever wondered if the reason tipping is so low on cruises from Britain/Europe is because service is LOUSY? It can be a vicious circle of someone not tipping and service declining. I prefer handing money to the person that has performed the service. When it is incorporated into the price it is not a "tip" as has been stated.

[sidari]

One way would be to make paying the Tips/Gratuities/Service charge /whatever name you want it to be ...... upfront as UK cruisers do for MTD.

 

Despite arguements against pre paying for MTD if the staff know that a complaint leaves them open not to receive their portion of a customers pre paid tips they are not likely to put that at risk by being lazy, unless of course they are that stupid!

[luckyprincess]

smeyer418 ..... I read your post and noted some interesting points, one being in regard to Consumer Protection for missed ports! .... last November on the Ruby princess we missed Grand Cayman .... those from the USA and Canada were refunded the Port charges to their Onboard accounts, it was only after returning home that we found out about it from a friend in Canada. It took a good few months before Princess admitted that this had been done and finally Refunded our missed port charges x 10 people as OBC for a next cruise.

 

With regard to those from the USA being charged an extra 50% is that not down to the fact that they know that you will pay it (not you personally) and the likes of Europeans will not unless they feel the cost is reasonable and Fair and know when to walk away when they feel they are being ripped off, and has nothing to do with those people being cheapskates.

 

Maybe it is time for Employment law in the USA to mirror the UK and make tips illegal as part of a persons Basic wage? .... tips could still be given for good service.

When I was a server I never would have worked for a European system. I would have made far less money...

[kooljamming]

Has anyone ever wondered if the reason tipping is so low on cruises from Britain/Europe is because service is LOUSY? It can be a vicious circle of someone not tipping and service declining. I prefer handing money to the person that has performed the service. When it is incorporated into the price it is not a "tip" as has been stated.

 

No, never wondered. I am from a non tipping background and it took a while to embrace the whole concept of tipping. I wasn't used to sales tax so again I had to learn the price on the shelf is not what I will pay. Not everyone is used to doing things the American way. Later I worked as a waitress and for the most part had patrons who understood no matter what the $crewed up business owners called it, it was simply wage for a starving waitress. Years later, that's how I think about it....wage! In my experience there were more than enough good patron to outweight the bad one. I took pride in my work so I always did my best, even when I knew a certain group was going to leave me high and dry.

[spongerob]

I don't think it's possible for RC or any cruise line to adopt a one-size-fits-all policy for an international business. Customs vary, so - give the people what they want.

 

Americans don't want to pay for anything included in the price that they will not personally use or benefit from. That's how we got to the point where you have loss-leader pricing and then lots of add-ons (soda cards, shore transfers, service charges, and so on). So be it. Americans get the cheap up front price but pay for everything beyond the basics, because that's how they want it.

 

And no whining about the extra costs allowed!

 

Everyone else wants it all wrapped up in one package fee, so that they pay it all up front then don't have to spend another penny. Give them what they want, it's all-inclusive.

 

But no whining about the price will be allowed! And no sneaking off to book outside your country, either, your fare structure is based on your passport. No exceptions.

 

You can't have it both ways. There's a reason why it costs a pound or more to purchase in the UK what a dollar will in the US, regardless of exchange rates.

[ehfl]

if RCI is going to charge us to death for it beforehand, I am certainly not going to reward it at the end of the cruise unless it is spectacular.

 

How exactly is being charged "to death" beforehand drastically different from being charged "to death" at the end of the cruise.

 

Interesting comments....I would just want to know more specifically what you are talking about.

[Patty00]

Would love to see the gratuities included in the cruise fare. Then it is one less thing to think about. On the other hand, I would not like to see gratuities added to my bill and cannot be removed. I do not like to pre-pay my gratuities, however I have a few times. I prefer handing the envelope with sometimes extra for good service to the person. However, having them included in the cruise fare would be my choice and additional included in the envelope if deserving!

[smeyer418]

smeyer418 .....

 

With regard to those from the USA being charged an extra 50% is that not down to the fact that they know that you will pay it (not you personally) and the likes of Europeans will not unless they feel the cost is reasonable and Fair and know when to walk away when they feel they are being ripped off, and has nothing to do with those people being cheapskates.

 

Maybe it is time for Employment law in the USA to mirror the UK and make tips illegal as part of a persons Basic wage? .... tips could still be given for good service.

 

1. I stand corrected on the cheap comment-frugal would have been better

2. Never happen on the tips neither the employers want to change it and more importantly the employees don't want it changed either. Also remember we have 50 states with their own laws and they are never happy when the big bad Federal government interferes.... Red states no way....