Cruise Tipping: Is It Time for Royal Caribbean to Ditch Its System?

[ruskatab]

You are wrong. I don't know where you get your information from but if these companies are paying this rate of pay and using tips to subsidise wages then they are breaking the law.

 

It is illegal in the UK for bars, restaurants and hotels to use tips to make up minimum pay whichever way the customer pays. It is also illegal to pay less than the minimum wage.

 

:confused: The minimum wage in the UK is £5.80 per hour. For 18-21 year olds it is £4.83. The employer must pay the minimum wage. Tips are a bonus and cannot be used to top up pay. This is the law.

 

This is exactly how it should be in the U.S.! It is ridiculous that we are buying the product and also supplementing the employees pay because the companies are to cheap to pay minimum wage. RC should give their employees a decent wage and not expect the passengers to pay the employees salary because alot of people dont tip. Tips are supposed to be something extra not the employees paycheck. I have 2 kids that are waiters and they get stiffed all the time by non tippers and they have no back up for a paycheck when people are jerks.

[MeriG]

I want the crew to be paid and be paid fairly for the service that they provide. I would personally prefer that tips be included in my cruisefare with the option of adding additional tips at the end should I expereince award winning service from a member of the crew... Essentially, I'd rather pay for the full product and reward great service with something extra, not required at the end...

[TheCommiser]

You will find it has recently changed

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8037701.stm

 

it changed 11 days ago according to this, if you believe it will stop some resturants, think again. I know of atleast 4 resturants in bristol that practice this.....

[sidari]

Ever wondered why cruise ships are not registered in the USA ? so they themselves can pay minimum wages and not comply to the labour laws there!

 

It may also be that the cruise lines are paying the equivalent wage to what a person doing the same job on ship as on land would earn in their own Country ? which to people from the UK Europe and the USA is low.

 

If the staff were paid a Higher wage at least the cruise lines would have control of how a person performs! regardless of where on the ship they work.

 

Then if you as a cruise passenger feel that someone has done a great job you can still reward them with a tip.

[spongerob]

If the staff were paid a Higher wage at least the cruise lines would have control of how a person performs! regardless of where on the ship they work.

As long as you understand that the cost of the cruise will increase commensurately, that's fine.

[temple1]

I hope anyone reading Paloti's article knows that she was somewhat "loose" with RCCL's tipping policies and guidelines. She is also does not mention some of the other that cruiselines allow passengers to reduce or remove prepaid tips once onboard.

 

With that out of the way, I to think RCCL should review their policy fleetwide based on many of the questions raised on these boards daily about tipping. The questions and answers about ways to reduce paying the suggested tips are not just from British posters but are from the US, Canada and elsewhere.

 

For the cruiseline to continue its archaic suggestions of who is to be tipped what amount (this is towards food service) was outdated the moment they added a second venue for dinner service.

 

I vote for making it a prepaid service charge. I currently prepay my gratuities and have not had any concerns with service.

 

My suggestion is for the bean counters to do an analysis fleetwide of how much tipped staff receive in comparison to the suggested gratuity guidelines. Taking out the highs and lows and use that as a basis for determining how much per passenger to charge with NO removal of the service charge unless it is for gross negligence.

 

Of course I doubt any cruise line would actually reduce the suggested amount - so it would still be an interesting exercise.

[JanineM]

As long as you understand that the cost of the cruise will increase commensurately, that's fine.

 

Someone with more time than I should spend a few hours today calculating the increased cost. Of course minimum wages wouldn't affect just the stateroom attendants and wait staff, it would spread to those in the laundry, in the kitchen, in the engine room, etc., etc.

 

Anyone up for this task on a Sunday?

[Aquahound]

As long as you understand that the cost of the cruise will increase commensurately, that's fine.

 

Not to mention, in these economic times, would have probably all gone out of business.

[romnan]

I believe they should pay their employees a living wage, and then add a corresponding amount to the cruise fare. I am tired of all of the added fees, extra costs that are becoming associated with cruising. We, in the US, know (or should know) that tipping is expected, and we budget for the amount.

 

Simply add it to the fare, and set the rate at a point where, if one wishes to acknowledge exemplary service, you could always give an additional gratuity for excellent service.

 

The ecomomic model where someone always has their hand out for a tip is demeaning for both parties.

 

A glaring example, is the porters at the US piers, who are paid union wages, always expect/demand a tip. The veiled threats that if you don't tip is that something might happen to your luggage. That is extortion.

This is a real issue As an Ameriican I can think of very few things that does not involve tipping try going to a favorite Restaraunt and not leave a tip. See what kind a service you get the next time you go

I go to get coffee every morning and there is the tip jar. So is the same with Cruise culture I swear they have a list somewhere tracking if you tip on not and how much.

 

I really enjoy cruising and have accepted that it is part of the culture like it or not

[smeyer418]

You know of course that cruise tipping is a British invention - a guy name Cunard started it in modern times. He felt that the good employee would earn more this way and stay. The bad ones would leave. It also goes back to the British middle and upper class tipping borrowed servants(which they didn't otherwise pay). On a weekend when you went to someone else's country home you didn't bring your servants along and "borrowed" a servant from the host. At the end of the weekend you tipped the borrowed servant. This was a rather small world and it was know whom the cheapskates were and they always got the worst servants.

 

There a number of reasons that tips aren't included some have to do with competition and some have to do with paying commissions and taxes and financial results reporting(putting the wages through the cruiseline wouyld reduce the profits somewhat). Be careful what you ask for as if it was included in the fare you would have to pay a markup to pay for some of these.

 

Finally the fact that it is included leads to poorer service is in a word balderdash. Most of the times the issues on NCL that people call service having nothing to do with service at all-there are some exceptions. Some of the high end lines are no tipping and the service is high and so are the per day costs. Good service has more to do with training and supervision than tips or how a person is paid(some McDonalds have great service some terrible and no one ever tips).

I just came off an NCL trip and the service was better than on the QM2.- both have fixed service charges(you can take it off on the QM2)...

[temple1]

SMeyer - Once again where the US by custom and laws does not move into the 20th century, much less the 21st. :D

[sidari]

If the costs go up to cater for Gratuities then for us so be it! as we have had MTD on 2 occasions we have in effect paid it upfront with the cruise price .... so there is no reason for the cruise price to increase ..... maybe the answer is for RCI to go wholly MTD and that way Everyone pays up front ... anyone who is too selfish to do this can always look elsewhere.

[temple1]

If the costs go up to cater for Gratuities then for us so be it! as we have had MTD on 2 occasions we have in effect paid it upfront with the cruise price .... so there is no reason for the cruise price to increase ..... maybe the answer is for RCI to go wholly MTD and that way Everyone pays up front ... anyone who is too selfish to do this can always look elsewhere.

 

It is different for RCCL to go the way of the other mainstream cruiselines and have prepaid mandatory than to just raise the price of the cruise to include all staff wages. As another poster pointed out - upping the price ups the amount paid to ta's, upping wages increases the amount of taxable revenue and changes the bottom line. So it gets more complicated than to just go with a mandatory prepaid service fee.

[Aquahound]

As another poster pointed out - upping the price ups the amount paid to ta's, upping wages increases the amount of taxable revenue and changes the bottom line. So it gets more complicated than to just go with a mandatory prepaid service fee.

 

I'm not sure that's true. Don't T/As only get commission on the base price? If it's mandatory pre-paid, and separately labeled as gratuities, the T/A gets nothing from it.

[brfan]

If the costs go up to cater for Gratuities then for us so be it! as we have had MTD on 2 occasions we have in effect paid it upfront with the cruise price .... so there is no reason for the cruise price to increase ..... maybe the answer is for RCI to go wholly MTD and that way Everyone pays up front ... anyone who is too selfish to do this can always look elsewhere.

 

You are correct if all we are talking about is the current gratuity amount. But many here are talking about a living wage, which I believe goes above and beyond the current per day amount (I believe on RCL it is $9.75 per person per day, most other cruise lines it is $10 per person per day).

 

To me a living wage involves a minimum per hour rate. Without anything extra, the crew works around 12 hours per day, 7 days a week. Throw in a special event (eg. late night pool party, Celebrity's late night snacks, etc) and you probably add another 2-4 hours to the wait staff that have to work those events day. If the ship is under red alert or is preparing for an inspection then you can probably add another 3 or more hours to their work day.

 

Work that out by some kind of minimum wage per hour and I assume overtime after working so many hours and it will probably work out to several hundred dollars per person per day added to the cruise fare.

 

I don't understand the thinking that service will be reduced if they are actually paid a proper wage. Why does this apply to service people and not to office workers who get a set salary? Why do service workers need a carrot and office workers do not (as an example)?

 

If you get poor service by someone and this service isn't caused by cruise line cutbacks, then talk to someone in charge and if nothing happens note it on the comment card at the end of cruise. If the poor service is caused by cutback and not the fault of the crew member then write a letter to the cruise line headquarters to complain and ask that the service be reinstated.

 

And to the person who said make the tips mandatory and only reduced if you complain about poor service by an individual, that could be risky. How easy would it be for someone who doesn't want to tip to say they received poor service when that wasn't true just to get out of tipping. Someone could lose their job because of a passenger being untruthful.

 

Anyway my view is add the gratuity to the fare like they do for MTD and if anyone wants to tip more they can, but it isn't a requirement. That way the crew will be guranteed a certain amount each cruise and not have to worry about not having enough money to send home to pay their rent, etc.

[temple1]

:eek:

I'm not sure that's true. Don't T/As only get commission on the base price? If it's mandatory pre-paid, and separately labeled as gratuities, the T/A gets nothing from it.

 

That is why I was differentiating between the 2. Some folks seem to be advocating increasing the price of the cruise by the amount of the traditional gratuity. The point being made - if the cruiselines were to increase the price of the cruise by the amount of the current gratuities - they would actually have to increase by a higher amount to cover all the additional costs associated with a higher cruise price - commissions and a higher labor cost. That is why tis better for the bottom line to make it a mandatory service fee than an increase in price.

 

For those who are caught up in the concept of a living wage - kind of an odd concept coming from American's who thought $5.75/hr with no benefits was an acceptable wage. I believe it is the competition between cruiselines (lord whoever thought I would be writing the following) that sets the payscale for the remainder of the shipboard crew and staff. Somewhere the cruiselines know how much it takes to keep an experienced Cabin Attendent Supervisor from leaving for a better position. They have also many years of observing which cruiselines are attracting their better restaurant staff and a good idea of what they will make in pay and tips on the other cruiselines.

 

There is plenty of information for the cruiselines to set a payscale for any level of employee.

[gofeo]

I was a normal 10% tipper until one of my sons went to work for the restaurant with the pepper. He made 2.50 per hour and the rest of his wage depended on tips. I dont know what the law is, but I know the restaurants automatically report at least 10% to IRS off each ticket. So ' o if you do not tip at least that amount you are cheating the server. I now tip at least 20% to be fair. I use to hate the automatic 15% for groups. There was eight of us in the family and always waiting extra time to be seated and then the auto tip was insult to injury. My son was a very good waiter so he would choose to let the groups tip what they wanted and he usually made more the the 15%. He finially quit the job because his manager would have the wait staff working a couple of hours after close for clean up at the same 2.50 rate and it brought down the amout he netted. I have cruised on most all the lines and I really hated paying NCL the auto tip. You never know if the person giving you the service really gets the tip. I agree with some of the other posters.

A tip should be a bonus, not part of the wages.

[amaw]

Check out the latest Royal Caribbean News from Cruise Critic:

 

Cruise Tipping: Is It Time for Royal Caribbean to Ditch Its System?

We have just booked on the Independence out of Southampton to Canaries and we are scheduled to pay our tips upfront on final invoice. I think this is the best way to do it:)

[smeyer418]

I was a normal 10% tipper until one of my sons went to work for the restaurant with the pepper. He made 2.50 per hour and the rest of his wage depended on tips. I dont know what the law is, but I know the restaurants automatically report at least 10% to IRS off each ticket. So ' o if you do not tip at least that amount you are cheating the server. I now tip at least 20% to be fair. I use to hate the automatic 15% for groups. There was eight of us in the family and always waiting extra time to be seated and then the auto tip was insult to injury. My son was a very good waiter so he would choose to let the groups tip what they wanted and he usually made more the the 15%. He finially quit the job because his manager would have the wait staff working a couple of hours after close for clean up at the same 2.50 rate and it brought down the amout he netted. I have cruised on most all the lines and I really hated paying NCL the auto tip. You never know if the person giving you the service really gets the tip. I agree with some of the other posters.

A tip should be a bonus, not part of the wages.

 

On NCL ALL the money goes to the traditionally tipped crew and tipped out crew on the ship(except for the American Flagged ship). Not a farthing or even a half penny is taken out. Not one cent goes to corporate or the officers(the exception is the head housekeeper and below who was always tipped out) NCL even pays the credit card fee if the amount is charged. When you tip on other lines they are required to tip out of the money you give them the line cooks and dishwashers for the waiters asst and the stewards tip out the laundry. This is the way it is if they want to get the food on time or clean laundry. On NCL as long as the mandatory amount is left on these people are all part of the pool and if you tip extra that can be kept by the person you give it to. The crew prefers it because so few people take it off they do MUCH better. If you complain about them they will get poor assignments or fired. So the incentive to give good service is still there. If you remove it ALL the amount you give has to be turned in on pain of being fired.

 

There is a lot of old wives tells about this and some people like handing the money to their serfs. Personally I like mandatory service charges. It makes it easier for me. If I want to give extra I do and I know the person can keep it with no tipping out required. and there are a fair amount of people who stiff because they can. Even you as you reported tipped less until you found out how it worked for your son.

Ask you son about "tipping out" its pretty universal.

 

I normally turn my signature off but I'll leave it on so you can see how I think.

[Moeve]

Many European agency were doing exactly that adding the tips to the upfront price explaning that this was the recomended tip which ARE the crews wages. This often ran them into problems with offers from the US which didn't want to make their clients pay up front without bearing the problem in mind of what happens if the cruise is constantly stiff by passenger who simply didn't understand the concept.

 

Therefore I like the new concept of adding a service charge and being done with it. Sure I am going to add a bit more just like I have been doing in the passed when the service has been excellant and we will finally be back to it really being a gratification for over and above service.

[Cruising89143]

It's just a sign of the times. RCI has moved more ships overseas where many do not believe in the Amercian way for tipping. Also, we have some cheap Americans out there that do not believe that they have to give gratuities. RCI has two choices. Raise the price of the cruise to cover this amount or add it to one's SeaPass card. Most of the ships cruising under the Carnival corporate banner have been doing this for years.

 

If RCI adds the gratuities to the price of the cruise then they will have to pay commission on that amount unless they make it part of the non-commissionable taxes/fare. Either way, we pay folks. Personally I don't care which way they go as it's just a part of the amount that people should take into account when planning a cruise.

[sandij]

I like the tips being added to my bill, not necessarily up front, then I don't have to watch what I spend to make sure I have tip money left at the end of the cruise. BUT___ I have found over the last few years that the quality of the service has gone down since this habit was started. Maybe the workers feel they don't need to go the extra mile if the tips are already in the bag.

[Cuizer2]

You are wrong. I don't know where you get your information from but if these companies are paying this rate of pay and using tips to subsidise wages then they are breaking the law.

 

It is illegal in the UK for bars, restaurants and hotels to use tips to make up minimum pay whichever way the customer pays. It is also illegal to pay less than the minimum wage.

 

:confused: The minimum wage in the UK is £5.80 per hour. For 18-21 year olds it is £4.83. The employer must pay the minimum wage. Tips are a bonus and cannot be used to top up pay. This is the law.

 

Royal Caribbean is not a British Company. Its ships do not sail under a British flag. Its ships operate in international waters. Its service staff are from many countries.

 

I doubt that Royal Caribbean is subject to the British labor laws. It certainly does not follow the US labor laws.

[jlp20]

Our experience has been with Princess. Many years ago, they went with the pre paid tips that are added to your folio daily. Years ago it was explained it was done because too many pax were slipping off the ship without leaving tips for anyone. I do not know if this is 100% true, but the way people on this board look for ways to save a few pennies I can believe it.

 

I have done my research, if there is any charge in excess of what I have read about, I have a cause to gripe. If charges for certain services are well known, so be it. As with any activity, if you can’t afford it, don’t cruise.

[Elizanessie]

Royal Caribbean is not a British Company. Its ships do not sail under a British flag. Its ships operate in international waters. Its service staff are from many countries.

 

I doubt that Royal Caribbean is subject to the British labor laws. It certainly does not follow the US labor laws.

 

But RCCL UK uses the different laws when it suits them.

 

Examples-

Cancel cruise in UK-lose deposit-UK laws.

Credit card-No,different laws so cant have it.

Drinking laws- UK laws.

Smoking policy-UK laws.

Charges for changes to bookings-UK(& Europe)only policy

Wow Sale-no

Residents discount-no

 

RCCL UK have known since the spring of 2007 that there was a problem with tipping on ships leaving from Southampton. But that didnt stop them wanting to have bigger ships here...and from spring 2010 the Indy will be here all year round.

How they are going to fill her all year, I dont know...oh yea...selling to folks who havent a clue about price drops, discounts, OBC, cruise boards, tipping etc etc.