Disembarking before final port

[Boytjie]

Okay, since your cruise can be booked as a 17-day, getting off in San Diego, Aruba must qualify as a distant foreign port. If you can get off in S.D., you should be able to get off in WA as far as the PVSA is concerned. Now, HAL may have reasons other than the PVSA for not wanting to let you off in WA.

 

Aruba does qualify as a foreign distant port.

 

HAL is also selling a 4-day San Diego to Vancouver segment on this cruise, perhaps that comes into play.

[StanandJim]

HAL may have reasons other than the PVSA for not wanting to let you off in WA.

 

If you look through your passage contract, you will find the following language:

 

The Whateverdam visits cruise ports in the itinerary under "Yacht Priveleges".

By these arrangements, cruise passengers are permitted ashore for sightseeing purposes with a minimum of government regulations. Under certain circumstances, passengers may be embarked or finally disembarked at local ports but such arrangements must be made in advance. Passengers electing to leave or join the cruise enroute are advised that they may be assessed any additional port dues, levies or taxes which are incurred as a result of changes in the ships' status occasioned by such local traffic. Such port dues, levies and taxes will be prorated among the passengers disembarking or embarking at the local ports.

 

In short, the ship pays lower taxes and fees in a through port than an embark/disembark port. If the actions of disembarking passengers change the status of the ship in that port, HAL will look to those passengers to pay those fees.

 

Is it really worth taking that chance?

[mimigirl54]

If you look through your passage contract, you will find the following language:

 

The Whateverdam visits cruise ports in the itinerary under "Yacht Priveleges".

By these arrangements, cruise passengers are permitted ashore for sightseeing purposes with a minimum of government regulations. Under certain circumstances, passengers may be embarked or finally disembarked at local ports but such arrangements must be made in advance. Passengers electing to leave or join the cruise enroute are advised that they may be assessed any additional port dues, levies or taxes which are incurred as a result of changes in the ships' status occasioned by such local traffic. Such port dues, levies and taxes will be prorated among the passengers disembarking or embarking at the local ports.

 

In short, the ship pays lower taxes and fees in a through port than an embark/disembark port. If the actions of disembarking passengers change the status of the ship in that port, HAL will look to those passengers to pay those fees.

 

Is it really worth taking that chance?

 

Wow. I thought I had gone over the cruise contract with a fine tooth comb, but I didn't see that. I did see that if you're on a round trip cruise leaving from a US port you can't get off somewhere else. But I also read that this does not apply to Panama Canal cruises. I'M SO CONFUSED!!!!!

[English_in_Spain]

We will be doing something similar next May. We are on the transatlantic from FLL to Barcelona but the last port of call is Alicante which is where we live.

 

If we were to stay on the ship to Barcelona we would have to fly home.

 

Before booking the cruise I checked with HAL that this would be possible. They had to first check with the Port Authority in Alicante to make sure it was ok with them.

 

I have an email confirmation from HAL that we will be able to leave in Alicante.

[StanandJim]

I have an email confirmation from HAL that we will be able to leave in Alicante

Dear English in Spain-

 

Lets be clear here, I was never suggesting that one MAY NOT leave the ship at any point during the cruise. These are not prison ships, after all.

 

That one might, or might not, be discouraged from leaving the ship early by the threat of penalties and/or fees is what is at question.

 

As noted in my earlier post, the fee's that might change, if you disembark early, do not originate with Holland America and therefore, HAL would not be in a position to waive them, if the port bumps up those charges.

 

Port fees can vary by several thousand dollars when you are dealing with ships of this size. In this economy, I would not count on HAL eating those extra charges.

 

Common sense tells me that what you need in hand to avoid a problem with early disembarcation such as you describe, is something in writing from the Port Authorities in Alicante stating that your disembarking will not effect the "through-statis" of the ship, and that the fee structure for that port stop will not be affected.

 

It might also be worth inquiring as to how many passengers leaving the ship WOULD cause them to change the fee.

You might be the only couple who wish to end that cruise early.......but what if there were ten of you? Or fifty?

 

Would there be any way to know that type of thing in advance?

 

One likes to think of public officials as enforcing the rules with an eye toward common sense, but if you are faced with one who is a sticker for detail.....

 

Anyway, get something from Alicante.

[English_in_Spain]

Dear English in Spain-

 

Lets be clear here, I was never suggesting that one MAY NOT leave the ship at any point during the cruise. These are not prison ships, after all.

 

That one might, or might not, be discouraged from leaving the ship early by the threat of penalties and/or fees is what is at question.

 

As noted in my earlier post, the fee's that might change, if you disembark early, do not originate with Holland America and therefore, HAL would not be in a position to waive them, if the port bumps up those charges.

 

Port fees can vary by several thousand dollars when you are dealing with ships of this size. In this economy, I would not count on HAL eating those extra charges.

 

Common sense tells me that what you need in hand to avoid a problem with early disembarcation such as you describe, is something in writing from the Port Authorities in Alicante stating that your disembarking will not effect the "through-statis" of the ship, and that the fee structure for that port stop will not be affected.

 

It might also be worth inquiring as to how many passengers leaving the ship WOULD cause them to change the fee.

You might be the only couple who wish to end that cruise early.......but what if there were ten of you? Or fifty?

 

Would there be any way to know that type of thing in advance?

 

One likes to think of public officials as enforcing the rules with an eye toward common sense, but if you are faced with one who is a sticker for detail.....

 

Anyway, get something from Alicante.

 

Thank you for that advice. I will contact our local Port Authority.

[Pam in CA]

Oh, oh. This may be where the "glitch" is coming from. I might be willing to take a chance on the fine just because it's so difficult to get from Vancouver to P.A. No planes, no trains, no buses and a rental car would probably be REALLY expensive with a drop fee outside of Canada. Plus it would be very sad to stand on the ship's deck and watch my beloved home town fading into the distance. :(

 

I wish I knew for sure who would file the claim. If it's customs I don't think our friends would do that! But if it's the IRS or TSB or Homeland Security or the FBI or CIA or some other nefarious source I'll be scared. Oh what to do, what to do.

OK. If you go through Immigration in San Diego and then continue on to Vancouver, the PVSA rules don't apply as technically, you're sailing from a US port to a foreign port. By disembarking (port calls don't count as they are normally less than 24 hours) in Port Angeles, you are violating the PVSA. When you go through Immigration at a US port, it counts the same as an embarkation so thus you'd be embarking at a US port and disembarking at another US port without a stop at a FAR foreign port, a clear violation.

 

FYI, the cruiseline is fined by Homeland Security and they, of course, pass the charge on to you. They know where you live and have your CC # so if you just get off, you can bet you'll see that charge on your CC bill. Medical emergencies / evacuations get a waiver.

[alexandria]

We are sailing on the Statendam this spring from Ft. Lauderdale to Vancouver, BC. We actually live in Port Angeles, Washington and the ship is stopping there the day before it docks in Vancouver. We are planning on disembarking in Port Angeles and are running into problems with HAL.

 

Has anyone out there ever disembarked early? We have already made arrangements with U.S. Customs to meet us and clear us upon arriving in P.A. Will we be held captive by HAL in our staterooms if we try to get off early? I'm too old to go to jail. :o

 

Aruba is considered a distant foreign port under 19 CFR 4.80(a). Therefore, you can embark in Ft. Lauderdale and disembark in Port Angeles without violating PVSA as long as you have gone on the vessel to Aruba.

 

See 9 CFR 4.80(b)(3), which provides that: "If the passenger is on a voyage to one or more coastwise ports and a distant foreign port or ports (whether or not the voyage includes a nearby foreign port or ports) and the passenger disembarks at a coastwise port, there is no violation of the coastwise law provided the passenger has proceeded with the vessel to a distant foreign port."

 

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2005/aprqtr/pdf/19cfr4.80a.pdf

 

Hope this helps.

[alexandria]

OK. If you go through Immigration in San Diego and then continue on to Vancouver, the PVSA rules don't apply as technically, you're sailing from a US port to a foreign port. By disembarking (port calls don't count as they are normally less than 24 hours) in Port Angeles, you are violating the PVSA. When you go through Immigration at a US port, it counts the same as an embarkation so thus you'd be embarking at a US port and disembarking at another US port without a stop at a FAR foreign port, a clear violation.

 

FYI, the cruiseline is fined by Homeland Security and they, of course, pass the charge on to you. They know where you live and have your CC # so if you just get off, you can bet you'll see that charge on your CC bill. Medical emergencies / evacuations get a waiver.

 

Here is how embark and disembark are defined: "Embark means a passenger boarding a vessel for the duration of a specific voyage and disembark means a passenger leaving a vessel at the conclusion of a specific voyage. The terms embark and disembark are not applicable to a passenger going ashore temporarily at a coastwise port who reboards the vessel and departs with it on sailing from the port." Therefore, I believe if the OP temporarily goes ashore in any US port prior to Port Angeles, it does not constitute disembarkation unless the OP does not reboard.

[Jemima]

The US disembarkation port for this cruise is San Diego. OP is sailing from Fort Lauderdale to San Diego where most passengers will disembark. New passengers will board in San Diego for the San Diego to Vancouver cruise. Look at all the northbound Pacific coastal cruises. All of them end in Canada, not in a US port. The spring Panama Canal repo cruises disembark many, probably most, passengers in San Diego, and none on them end in Seattle. Look at the ships which will sail Alaskan cruises from San Diego. The repo ends in Vancouver and then there is a one day cruise from Vancouver to Seattle.

[alexandria]

HAL has two cruises listed for the Statendam sailing from Ft. Lauderdale for April 2010, the 17 day Winter Panama Canal Discovery ending in San Diego and the 21 day Winter Panama Canal Discovery ending in Vancouver, which appears to be the cruise OP has booked. If that is the cruise OP booked, there shouldn't be a violation disembarking in Port Angeles.

 

Now, if OP booked the 17 day Winter Panama Canal Discovery followed by the 4 day Spring Pacific Coastal as a B2B, that may be a different matter, depending on what HAL and the feds consider the port of embarkation (Ft. Lauderdale or San Diego) when OP disembarks.

[Jemima]

Now, if OP booked the 17 day Winter Panama Canal Discovery followed by the 4 day Spring Pacific Coastal as a B2B, that may be a different matter, depending on what HAL and the feds consider the port of embarkation (Ft. Lauderdale or San Diego) when OP disembarks.

 

I think the 21 day cruise is a B2B even through it was booked as one cruise. Reread my previous post. The cruise begins in Fort Lauderdale, includes a distant foreign port, disembarks passengers at San Diego and also embarks some new passengers there. I'd guess that San Diego is the end of the cruise and that the Pacific coast leg has to be treated as another cruise.

 

The last line on my previous cruise should have read "Look at the ships which will sail Alaskan cruises from San Diego. The repo ends in Vancouver and then there is a one day cruise from Vancouver to Seattle".

[jtl513]

I think the 21 day cruise is a B2B even through it was booked as one cruise.

I disagree. I think it is a 21-day cruise ending in Vancouver, which can also be booked as a 17-day segment or a 4-day segment.

 

Just because everyone has to pass a CBP check (as it is the first US port after having been out of the country) does not mean that it is the end of the cruise. In the Caribbean many cruises are subjected to a CBP check in St Thomas, but the cruises end in FLL.

 

When we did a spring repo on the Amsterdam, I would guesstimate that about 20% to 25% got off in L.A., and the majority went on to Vancouver. A great many on our cruise were Canadian.

[Jemima]

Perhaps we should ask DBA.

[RuthC]

The PVSA is only concerned with the ports where the passenger first embarks, and leaves the ship for the final time, and what foreign ports the ship has stopped at in between. In OP's case, boarding is in Ft. Lauderdale, proposed disembarkation is Port Angeles, and the ship will stop at a distant foreign port.

There does not appear to by any violation of the PVSA.

The problem may lie in whether or not there is CBP staff in Port Angeles who can process a passenger for disembarkation, as opposed to a 1-day visit.

All passengers should complete Immigration at the first US port, but Customs is only done at disembarkation. Port Angeles may not be set up to handle Customs.

[gentlemancruiser]

This last August we took a 26 day Baltic/Transatlantic cruise which was to terminate in NYC. As we approached Halifax, Nova Scotia, we decided that we could rent a car and be home in four hours, as opposed to continuing on to NYC where we would then have to fly to Toronto, spend the night and then fly home to Saint John.

We asked at the front desk if we could do this and it was no problem. We had to sign a form which stated we would not seek compensation from HAL for the uncompleted portion of the cruise and were told to present ourselves to Canadian immigration in the Hudson Room with our luggage shortly after we docked. When we got there we saw that about 40 other people had the same idea. HAL was very helpful with regard to getting our luggage to the curb, where the rental company picked us up.

However, I might add that we were not being transported from one US port to another, so that may have some bearing on our being allowed to leave.

 

Hi Sapper,

The difference here is that you were not traveling between two US ports.

Bruce

 

Regardless weather you get off the ship in a port, you are considered to have landed in a us port. The ship is cleared and you are a passenger, so you are cleared in San Diego as well. Some passengers may be finishing their cruise in San Diego.

The other posters are correct, due to the current law you cannot finish your cruise at Port Angeles.

[RuthC]

The other posters are correct, due to the current law you cannot finish your cruise at Port Angeles.

For reasons having nothing to do with the PVSA, however. Exactly what those reasons are has not been established, but it is not the PVSA.

[jtl513]

The problem may lie in whether or not there is CBP staff in Port Angeles who can process a passenger for disembarkation, as opposed to a 1-day visit.

All passengers should complete Immigration at the first US port, but Customs is only done at disembarkation. Port Angeles may not be set up to handle Customs.

But in post #8 the OP said:

My husband worked for US Customs in Port Angeles for nearly 20 years. He has talked to the agents here and they said to just call them a couple hours before we disembark and they'll come clear us.

[RuthC]

But in post #8 the OP said:

My husband worked for US Customs in Port Angeles for nearly 20 years. He has talked to the agents here and they said to just call them a couple hours before we disembark and they'll come clear us. (They're going to call HAL for us...we'll see what happens.)

Possibly that's only a lack of communication that special arrangements are being made. As soon as HAL has confirmation that CBP can do it's thing, then the matter will be resolved.

[mimigirl54]

Possibly that's only a lack of communication that special arrangements are being made. As soon as HAL has confirmation that CBP can do it's thing, then the matter will be resolved.

 

Boy, I hope you're right! :)

[StanandJim]

We don't want to leave poor Ruth C as the only voice of reason here, so we will venture into the fray, once more-

 

There are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT issues being discussed in this thread:

 

Issue # 1 is the Passenger Vessel Services Act which states that no foreign vessel shall transport passengers between ports or places in the United States, either directly or by way of a foreign port, under a penalty of $200 (now $300) for each passenger.

 

Issue #2 concerns the status of the ship in a so called "through-port", and how a passenger disembarking early might effect that status.

 

It is entirely possible for a passenger to be in compliance with the PVSA, for example, yet run afoul of the regulations for passengers who are using a port as part of a cruise itinerary (see "yacht privileges" in our post above).

 

As Ruth very correctly pointed out, if a port is not the official port of embarcation/disembarkation, that port will supply different services to those passengers.

[I_r_a]

Hi mimi,

 

I asked HAL a few weeks ago about ending a cruise early.

 

You have to pay for the full cruise.

 

You have to get written permission from HAL and the ship's captain.

[mimigirl54]

Hi mimi,

 

I asked HAL a few weeks ago about ending a cruise early.

 

You have to pay for the full cruise.

 

You have to get written permission from HAL and the ship's captain.

 

You'd better ask again, because as I originally said, I was told by HAL before booking that we could get off in Port Angeles as long as we informed them ahead of time. And now they're saying we can't get off. So be sure you get that written permission, because I asked them if I could have something in writing and they said, "no".

[jtl513]

I might be willing to take a chance on the fine just because it's so difficult to get from Vancouver to P.A. No planes, no trains, no buses and a rental car would probably be REALLY expensive with a drop fee outside of Canada.

If it turns out that you truly can't get off in P.A., what about driving your own car to Vancouver and flying to FLL from there? Not nearly as good as getting off "at home", I know ... :(

[mimigirl54]

If it turns out that you truly can't get off in P.A., what about driving your own car to Vancouver and flying to FLL from there? Not nearly as good as getting off "at home", I know ... :(

 

Good idea, but no can do. I got a super air fare many months ago (Seattle to Ft. Lauderdale) from Delta ($125 per person) and it's unrefundable. I'm too cheap to "eat" $250! :o What we'll probably end up doing is 1) Take our suitcases home while in Port Angeles; 2) get back on the ship and mutter a few impolite words under my breath as we sail away; 3) take a bus from Vancouver to Seattle for about 4 hours; 4) have our daughter pick us up, go out to lunch/dinner; 5) have said daughter take us to either the Bainbridge Island or Kingston ferry; 6) ride ferry; 7) have our son meet us there, after driving for 1 1/2 hours to get there; 8) drive the 1 1/2 hours back to Port Angeles. Bleech!